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Fair play to Pearse Doherty

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    #32
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #33
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    qualified enough to be Minister for finance though


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    #34
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #35
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Perhaps Noonan is merely saying nothing because he's just towing the line.

    You Brought the individuals educational background into it. In opposition, he rejected many economic plans of the then Govt, also, when is a housing Bubble not a housing Bubble?

    When former primary school teacher, now finance Minister says so (as he did last week).
    Do you believe he's economically qualified to form that opinion?


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    #36
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #37
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Let me know what part is confusing you and I'll run through it with you sure. :cool:


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    #38
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Noonan


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    #39
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #40
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #41
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Riskymove wrote: »
    giving who a free hand??

    the ESRI has published report which includes their best estimate of an economic forecast

    some people don't agree with the forecast....Pearse Doherty doesn't think much of the Institutes work....what is the big deal with Pearse Doherty giving his view on this?

    why is it so amazing to you?

    SF have given out about the ESRI reports for years as have other opposition members

    I just don't get why this such an amazing thing to you

    The only thing FG complained about regarding the FF budgets was that they were not giving enough away. AND well you know it.
    Plus the ESRI have been wrong many times before.


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    #42
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Riskymove wrote: »
    giving who a free hand??

    the ESRI has published report which includes their best estimate of an economic forecast

    some people don't agree with the forecast....Pearse Doherty doesn't think much of the Institutes work....what is the big deal with Pearse Doherty giving his view on this?

    why is it so amazing to you?

    SF have given out about the ESRI reports for years as have other opposition members

    I just don't get why this such an amazing thing to you


    It is one thing SF giving out about the ESRI reports for years, it is another thing SF being right.
    Godge wrote: »
    So he is saying that the ESRI said that austerity would lead to growth and the government imposed austerity and now that we are seeing growth resuming in the economy following the imposition of austerity that the ESRI are wrong.

    I lost him in the logic.

    Very strange analysis to say the least.

    I have already demonstrated that Doherty doesn't have a clue. He is only saying this stuff because he thinks it is popular, not because it is correct.


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    #43
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #44
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Just like my favourite cousin called Kevin.

    I didn't get the answer to what was confusing in my earlier post btw.


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    #45
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Just like my favourite cousin called Kevin.

    ............

    Cj Haughey had a degree in economics, on top of being a qualified accountant and lawyer............


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    #46
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Nodin wrote: »
    Cj Haughey had a degree in economics, on top of being a qualified accountant and lawyer............
    ... and look how well he did for himself.


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    #47
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Phoebas wrote: »
    ... and look how well he did for himself.

    He actually did do very well for himself.


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    #48
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    Oh look.
    But the so-called Stability Programme update, published by the Department, cautioned that the €2bn in tax hikes and spending cuts was still penciled in for Budget 2015, despite suggestions from the ESRI last week that we could be in for much less austerity.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/noonan-still-wants-2bn-in-budget-cuts-and-taxes-30188736.html


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    #49
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Surely anybody with an engineering degree is more scientific than the social science which is economics. One's an applied science with predictive mathematics empirically tested and testable, the others as useless as tea leaves.

    The ESRI most emphatically did not predict the bust. They predicted a soft landing and about 4% medium term growth in the decade from 2006. Which is about 40% out.

    I don't like Sinn Fein either but playing credentialism with economics is ludicrous.


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    #50
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Surely anybody with an engineering degree is more scientific than the social science which is economics. One's an applied science with predictive mathematics empirically tested and testable, the others as useless as tea leaves.
    So someone with an engineering qualification is better qualified to understand economics than someone with an economics qualification because economics doesn't lend itself to scientific study?

    OK then.


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    #51
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    So someone with an engineering qualification is better qualified to understand economics than someone with an economics qualification because economics doesn't lend itself to scientific study?

    OK then.

    Look where the Banking experts got us.
    How many accountants saw the crash coming?


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    #52
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    So someone with an engineering qualification is better qualified to understand economics than someone with an economics qualification because economics doesn't lend itself to scientific study?

    OK then.

    Yeah. Because economics is about as scientific as homeopathy which engineers can also comment on. Even if they don't have a qualification in homeopathy. My degree is physics and from such rare heights let me tell you economics is a non- science.


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    #53
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Look where the Banking experts got us.
    How many accountants saw the crash coming?
    You're right. I'm going to get my accounts done by my florist next year. After all, it's only logical to conclude that if not every expert in a field has been right all the time about everything, then every expert in that field is always wrong about everything.

    Jesus, I really wish Irish schools would teach people the rudiments of formal logic.


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    #54
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    But back to the ESRI. Highly credentialed economists.

    David McWilliams has a go.

    http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/09/07/esri-has-been-getting-its-forecasts-wrong-for-years


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    #55
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    You're right. I'm going to get my accounts done by my florist next year. After all, it's only logical to conclude that if not every expert in a field has been right all the time about everything, then every expert in that field is always wrong about everything.

    Jesus, I really wish Irish schools would teach people the rudiments of formal logic.

    You're never too late to learn :pac:


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    #56
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    So someone with an engineering qualification is better qualified to understand economics than someone with an economics qualification because economics doesn't lend itself to scientific study?

    OK then.

    Just for clarity.

    Are you of the opinion that Michael Noonan, former school teacher (primary/secondary I don't care) with 'a degree in economics' is aptly qualified as finance Minister for a country,?

    Or would you agree that their academic qualifications are irrelevant?


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    #57
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    But back to the ESRI. Highly credentialed economists.

    David McWilliams has a go.

    http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/09/07/esri-has-been-getting-its-forecasts-wrong-for-years

    No. They don't like him either. See earlier post.
    It has to be a party man.


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    #58
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    You're right. I'm going to get my accounts done by my florist next year. After all, it's only logical to conclude that if not every expert in a field has been right all the time about everything, then every expert in that field is always wrong about everything.

    Jesus, I really wish Irish schools would teach people the rudiments of formal logic.

    I wish they taught you some. The ESRI is the foremost authority in Ireland in this supposed "science".

    They are not just wrong but totally useless. No actual science has such lack of predictive powers. Having simple mathematics is not enough, the maths had to actually work - has to predict the future. Physicists don't get nobels for theorising but when the theories are proved.


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    #59
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    tayto lover wrote: »
    No. They don't like him either. See earlier post.
    It has to be a party man.

    The post is McWilliams pointing out how useless the ESRI is. What's who likes or doesn't like him got to do with it?


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    #60
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Banjo String wrote: »
    Just for clarity.

    Are you of the opinion that Michael Noonan, former school teacher (primary/secondary I don't care) with 'a degree in economics' is aptly qualified as finance Minister for a country,?

    Or would you agree that their academic qualifications are irrelevant?

    I'm not comparing the two. I'm taking issue with the idea that an engineer is better qualified to understand economics than an economist, which is a bit like saying that someone with mental health problems would be better off talking to an astrophysicist than a psychologist, because astrophysics is more scientific than psychology.


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    #61
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    From Mcwillams piece.

    "For example, back in the boom, as late as 2007, one of the chief bottle-washers at the ESRI dismissed the chances of a property crash. This was picked up by a property editor who said: “If he believed there was a crash coming then he would sell his house and rent it back. Tellingly, he is not doing this because he believes, as I do, that if (and that is a big ‘if’) the market is going to crash, it will do so in a patchy, selective way which will not impact to any great degree on many of the existing homes in Ireland.”

    The property editor was probably an economist.


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