Rumour about big meat factory - is it true?

moy83

tomwaterford wrote: »

there are very few full time and small farmers from my experience...everything else I would tend to agree with though

I would class a small full time farmer around here at 80/100 acres , to be honest they wouldn't have a great living but could survive on it and stay on the land . It might take less acres in better land .
I think there is a huge difference between fulltime and parttime farmers especially going forward for the next generation and they should be protected .

paddysdream

moy83 wrote: »

This is a tricky one , are there many people drawing the fruits of Daddys SFP ? I'm not because he is enjoying it himself and there are plenty like that around .
He feels the farm would be in a better place if the subsidies and their conditions never came around the place and he was left to his own devices - sink or swim . But he gets tetchy enough when he loses a few quid of it because of anything .
I have no SFP and don't need one as I am not full time , thats not to say I wouldn't take anything coming handy and try to hold on to it for as long as I could like alot are doing at the minute .
If the SFP is to keep the small farmer on the land in rural ireland I think it should be directed at fulltime and young farmers that are genuinely farming the land , keeping it in good condition and producing as much as they can within the rules laid down by whoever pays it .
If its for upping production of the country then it should go to the lads that can produce the most or best produce and only get it if its being spent in a viable manner that will help them expand and live from the land .

We need clear directions from the EU about what they want the money spent on and what they expect as payback . We will always argue amongst ourselves about who deserves more of the cake but if everything is laid out in black and white it would put an end to that row .

But we have clear direction from the EU as regards what they want the money spent on and what is expected in return.Have you ever actually read the SFP application form plus terms and conditions or even realised what a farmer is singing up to when you put your john hancock at the bottom?

What by the way is a small farmer? and why does he deserve more than the common or garden farmer.Whats a part time farmer?one who does a few days for a local contractor and helps out his father or one who works in dublin and only sees the stock at the weekend?

The rules are quiet clear on the points you raise re. actually farming the land(the red line issue in west cork?) producing as much or as little as you like under the rules and GAEC(good condition bit)

Its like banging my head off a brick wall at times but here goes again;

THE LINK WITH PRODUCTION WAS BROKEN IN 2005 AND UNDER CURRENT WTO RULES WE AIN'T GOING BACK FOR A LONG TIME (unless something really strange happens)

This is good or bad depending on your view but the whole trust of CAP going forward seems to be a complete break from any link to either past production or actual productivity of land(ie europe wide flat rate by 2028).

Ciolis wanted a flat rate this time ie 2015 onwards but Coveney decided that would be too drastic a step for Ireland in the one go and so we have graduated moves towards it.
Do people on here even read the paper or listen to the radio or tv?

How many here have gone to CAP meetings or are actively involved in any farming organisation?

paddysdream

tomwaterford wrote: »

even every second year would be bset


you get paid on year before lasts work..

in 2014 you get paid on 2012,in 2015 paid on 2013 and so on...would be fairest IMO


**though this may cause the department of agriculture to grind to a complete halt!!:D

Paid on what?

Sheep subs only achieved one think.Well a few actually but they were linked.Complete disaster for national flock breeding as every sheep with a female hormone was kept regardless of its suitability to breed and then dumped at the end of the retention period thus destroying the market.

Everyone with a garden and a herd number kept ewes.I know as bought(well collected in many cases) at least 400 of these when the ewe premium went and people realised that they were no keepsake

moy83

paddysdream wrote: »

But we have clear direction from the EU as regards what they want the money spent on and what is expected in return.Have you ever actually read the SFP application form plus terms and conditions or even realised what a farmer is singing up to when you put your john hancock at the bottom?

What by the way is a small farmer? and why does he deserve more than the common or garden farmer.Whats a part time farmer?one who does a few days for a local contractor and helps out his father or one who works in dublin and only sees the stock at the weekend?

The rules are quiet clear on the points you raise re. actually farming the land(the red line issue in west cork?) producing as much or as little as you like under the rules and GAEC(good condition bit)

Its like banging my head off a brick wall at times but here goes again;

THE LINK WITH PRODUCTION WAS BROKEN IN 2005 AND UNDER CURRENT WTO RULES WE AIN'T GOING BACK FOR A LONG TIME (unless something really strange happens)

This is good or bad depending on your view but the whole trust of CAP going forward seems to be a complete break from any link to either past production or actual productivity of land(ie europe wide flat rate by 2028).

Ciolis wanted a flat rate this time ie 2015 onwards but Coveney decided that would be too drastic a step for Ireland in the one go and so we have graduated moves towards it.
Do people on here even read the paper or listen to the radio or tv?

How many here have gone to CAP meetings or are actively involved in any farming organisation?

Sorry for hurting your head there paddy , I'll have a gander at the SFP forms tonight and have it all off tomorrow .
Ive been to a few CAP meetings and heard more grumbling than information

paddysdream

moy83 wrote: »

Sorry for hurting your head there paddy , I'll have a gander at the SFP forms tonight and have it all off tomorrow .
Ive been to a few CAP meetings and heard more grumbling than information

No bother.Babysitting till 6 today and it's doing my head in !!

Not to be smart but all the bits re. good farming practice,nitrates,pollution,out wintering,hedge removal ,land use etc etc etc are covered when you sign up for better or worse(just like marriage)

Unfortunately if all the CAP/SFP went in the morning we would be still stuck with those restrictions.

Its just the bit re. linking or re linking to production that does my head in. Even O Cuiv understands that and only uses his take on the figures to make a point .He sees no return to production based payment.

According to our betters,under the last WTO agreement, the EU gave up directly supporting agricultural production for allowances in other areas re. industrial exports,imports etc.That seems to be just the way it is and is the reason Coveney was limited to a very low coupling rate if he had decided to reintroduce it.

To be honest,the only major player really lobbying to bring back suckler cow and possibly ewe premia were,guess who.The meat factories.They realise that a say 90 euro suckler cow premium would ensure a known amount of cattle each year with a captive market as farmers will do anything ,even keep cattle at a loss,to draw the "sub".With either a national or individual quota the cow numbers would remain static,exactly what you need to plan ahead for yearly kills.Thats my take on it anyways.

paddysdream

case 956 wrote: »

Large Beef and Tillage farmers have a higher sfp than any dairy farmer rancher.... The reason drystock farmers not making a profit is because the factories have them by the balls with prices and th ifa or bno other organisation is fighting, but more worried about the sfp because there protecting there own income, ative farmers have no help. in 3 yrs time if this shambles is still going on there will be a lot of armchair farming going on

Wouldn't be too sure about that.Tillage payments were about,from memory,145 per acre or about 350 a hectare and less for setaside.Ok you can add in the beet compo but that runs out this year I think.
Any well stocked cattle and sheep farmer would have exceeded this.

Tillage payments look big because of the acerage claimed on, not the per hectare rate.

This shambles of SFP will be going on as agreed till at least 2019 I'm afraid.

Active farmers in the main are those who have historically the highest payments and despite what people think(and a few anomilies)will have the highest payment under any new scheme.

Look around you.How many armchair farmers do you know.Not lads that have 5k and never done a thing anyways but someone with 60k and the land which was needed to draw it on.Are they doing nothing?
Lots of pub talk about what this one or that one has in SFP but look it up and see the actual figure and you might be surprised in some cases.

Just for pig iron(and pure noseyness)looked up a lot of well known people IFA,politicans,journalists etc and others about 2 years ago, to see and was quiet surprised as to how little some of them had in SFP.
Made me feel good inside !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rancher

moy83 wrote: »

Sorry for hurting your head there paddy , I'll have a gander at the SFP forms tonight and have it all off tomorrow .
Ive been to a few CAP meetings and heard more grumbling than information

The meeting that I went to, you had to write your questions and hand them up, they ignored the grumbling ones, so it was all good information. then there was a two messers at thee end but matt Dempsey put an end to them

leg wax

not going to grumble here:o but a reference year as in the past was there so they new how much you were farming and at what, now its only to do with how much land and money stays the same,but lets get on with it and try and make the right dis for our own farms , i think that we will not be putting in all the maps and export slurry out for 2015 ,as i see renting land just to claim a lower sfp not on here ,and really not on if i go back milking.