Rumour about big meat factory - is it true?

morebabies

I heard a rumour last week that a big meat producer is buying up a lot of suck calves in the south and getting them contract reared. The figure of 10,000 calves was mentioned. This could all be rubbish, does anyone know is there any truth in this?

paddysdream

Neighbour is supposedly rearing a few hundred for a well known meat processor.

Heard talk of a euro per head per week.Presume this is just supply of sheds,water,straw and labour.

willfarmerman

900 in a yard in north wexford..I heard a 5r a week.

newholland mad

already posted about this in chit chat 3 farmers around here with 3-500 each all aa. All for the 1 factory!!:mad:

morebabies

So how does it work? Does the meat factory buy the milk replacer / meal do you know and how long does the farmer have to rear them for? Also what type of calves are they? (age/breed etc.) Thanks

paddysdream

Anytime I heard about calf rearing on contract around here it was;

Farmer supplied sheds,straw water and heating for milk replacer etc.Calf owner supplied calves,milk powder,meal and all vet expenses.
Think the calves had to be a certain weight/size/age when they arrived in the yard.

Usually you were on a schedule of having the stock to hit a certain weight by a specified time and think if they ran over this then it was not as profitable(if at all!)

500 plus sucks at the one time would be a nice little bit of work,no matter how good a setup you had and the amount of straw used by them(whilst on milk) is eye watering.

All the above relates to rearing them for rose veal finishing etc but would assume that rearing them for a normal beef unit would entail something similar.

Think they are in the host farmers herd number/register etc for the duration but not certain.
This could complicate things if you were running your own stock as well unless there was seperate air space in sheds etc.

bbam

The obvious problem is the plan to manipulate the market further..

Coveney has signalled no intent at all in getting involved in ensuring fairness in the market... Indeed I was told today that his brother is tied up with Larry himself, don't know if this is true but if it were it wouldn't bode well for him stepping in..

Does anyone know of the IFA or similar bodies have or plan to make a complaint to the Competition Authority as Coveney suggested here

tomwaterford

paddysdream wrote: »

Anytime I heard about calf rearing on contract around here it was;

Farmer supplied sheds,straw water and heating for milk replacer etc.Calf owner supplied calves,milk powder,meal and all vet expenses.
Think the calves had to be a certain weight/size/age when they arrived in the yard.

Usually you were on a schedule of having the stock to hit a certain weight by a specified time and think if they ran over this then it was not as profitable(if at all!)

500 plus sucks at the one time would be a nice little bit of work,no matter how good a setup you had and the amount of straw used by them(whilst on milk) is eye watering.

All the above relates to rearing them for rose veal finishing etc but would assume that rearing them for a normal beef unit would entail something similar.

Think they are in the host farmers herd number/register etc for the duration but not certain.
This could complicate things if you were running your own stock as well unless there was seperate air space in sheds etc.

so is this not more or less the route taken by cappaquin chickens??

they used supply chicks and feed and you supplied housing and heat and certain targets to hit along the way with bonus for over target performance (it was easily attainable from what I heard)

this ended in a bit of disaster for feed mills left on hook for large sums of money and rearers left on the hook as they were by and large paid when chicks gone!!!

I would be wary of depending meat factories to behave honourably here if I was the new rearers - a good idea on paper...but in practice it will lead to sqeeze on margins as factories will look to cut costs and could be sticklers on the target weights
*this should be said....forward buying animals at start of year would be best for all involved surly

newholland mad

Where the heck is the comp ath with all this going on, i know they always had their own stock but this seems to be upping the tempo. the store seller wont even have them at the ringside now that they have their own stores never mind when all these calves come fit and the job that will be done on the finisher

Farmer

This picture of calves in cages doesn't tie in too well with the images of seemingly happy cows and calves shown in green fields by the supermarket chains when advertising their latest beef promotion!

paddysdream

Farmer wrote: »

This picture of calves in cages doesn't tie in too well with the images of seemingly happy cows and calves shown in green fields by the supermarket chains when advertising their latest beef promotion!

?

Farmer

paddysdream wrote: »

?

OK perhaps an exaggeration but getting a little bit more like factory than field. Add in our age profile, lack of young people wanting to farm - is this the thin end of the wedge towards more U.S like factory farming where it just becomes not feasible for the rest of us to compete? I certainly hope not

bbam

Farmer wrote: »

OK perhaps an exaggeration but getting a little bit more like factory than field. Add in our age profile, lack of young people wanting to farm - is this the thin end of the wedge towards more U.S like factory farming where it just becomes not feasible for the rest of us to compete? I certainly hope not

I agree.
Were heading down the factory farm route where sheer numbers makes them a profit rather than high levels of animal welfare.

I saw €5 a week mentioned.
Anyone who thinks this will rear stock in top quality facilities is fooling themselves.

st1979

bbam wrote: »

I agree.
Were heading down the factory farm route where sheer numbers makes them a profit rather than high levels of animal welfare.

I saw €5 a week mentioned.
Anyone who thinks this will rear stock in top quality facilities is fooling themselves.

I have seen one of these places and it is a very good set up. They are not in cages but are batch fed. And would put most of us to shame.

oldsmokey

bbam wrote: »

The obvious problem is the plan to manipulate the market further..

Coveney has signalled no intent at all in getting involved in ensuring fairness in the market... Indeed I was told today that his brother is tied up with Larry himself, don't know if this is true but if it were it wouldn't bode well for him stepping in..

Does anyone know of the IFA or similar bodies have or plan to make a complaint to the Competition Authority as Coveney suggested here

The IFA?? don't get me started...worse than useless doesn't do them justice...anyway, who's going to collect their factory levies if they make too much of a ruckus?...Larry will tell em sling their hook..

rancher

oldsmokey wrote: »

The IFA?? don't get me started...worse than useless doesn't do them justice...anyway, who's going to collect their factory levies if they make too much of a ruckus?...Larry will tell em sling their hook..

Do you really think that I give a sh...e where the funding for the organisation comes from. The day we have to consider that in our discussions..I'll be gone.
Lots of members have the facilities, but don't have the finance to feed cattle, you expect us to put the boot into them.....don't think so.
There's other organisations out there, if it was such a great idea to stop feedlots being rented to factories, why aren't they at it

Farmer Pudsey

rancher wrote: »

Do you really think that I give a sh...e where the funding for the organisation comes from. The day we have to consider that in our discussions..I'll be gone.
Lots of members have the facilities, but don't have the finance to feed cattle, you expect us to put the boot into them.....don't think so.
There's other organisations out there, if it was such a great idea to stop feedlots being rented to factories, why aren't they at it

TBH rancher you are getting a bit excited about this. The reality is that all the farm organisations are behind the curve on it. They are refusing to tackle the issue. They have this idea that it might effect the mart price of cattle. However as we see finishers losing money will be slower to buy cattle for finishing at the end of this year. If they do they will be much more cautious in they bidding.

The fist thing any factory tells a finisher that is losing money is that they are ''paying too much for store''. Up until lately factory's gave out contracts to finisJers in Sept/Oct to finish cattle. They had less control of the market as the contract was to have cattle ready at X date. If the contract price was stronger than the actual price the finisher wanted to get his cattle slaughtered to reby more cattle whose price were adjusted to that. If the slaughter price was stronger that the contract the finisher still had his margin. This is totally different now where the factory are filling there own feedlots and renting more and using these to dampen prices at the normal high points Dec/jan and May/June.

The story now is that at the end of the year fewer finisher will be around the ringside, who will force the factory's and exporter to pay for weanlings and stores. The farm organisations are failing to react to this. They seem more concerned by weight and age restrictions.

The other thing Rancher while you may not be worried about the issue of where the money comes from to run the oprganisation the permenant staff and top table will always have an eye on this. The reality is that the only way non contracted finishers may be able to get the ball rolling is to stop the slaughter fees. A half a mill drop in income and 10K less members would focus the minds in the Farm Center

Greengrass1

Another thing I came across the other day. Why isn't IFA and ICMSA telling each farmer what they contribute every year? Its appalling tbh that these organisations are getting this money from the farmers and not letting us know what there doing with it to make our lives better.

I for one am looking at getting the IFA levie taken off my milk cheque. I have no faith in them as an organisation after they have done so little about the vegtsbles at Christmas and the beef the last few months

case 956

ye we pying a membership fee and levies on our milk to the ifa... for What??? all they do is sit on there arses and do nothing for the farmer, organise a protest outside leinster house once a year to just get a trip to the smoke, ifa is a disaster of a orginisation that do nothing for farmers and there families

paddysdream

case 956 wrote: »

ye we pying a membership fee and levies on our milk to the ifa... for What??? all they do is sit on there arses and do nothing for the farmer, organise a protest outside leinster house once a year to just get a trip to the smoke, ifa is a disaster of a orginisation that do nothing for farmers and there families

Not an apologist for the IFA(as a certain poster on here will vouch for!) but;

No one forces you or anyone else to pay those fees or levies,they are entirely voluntary and its child's play to stop them.All it takes is a phone call to the relevant office,mart,creamery,factory etc.
Have a problem with the method of collecting them unless told otherwise buts thats an arguement for another day.

For all those who complain;what are YOU doing about it and what do you propose(bearing in mind that this is real life so lets be realistic) to do about it.All well and fine complaining but whats the answer(assuming you go to meetings,are involved some ways in things etc)

Ifa or any other organisation can only do what ACTIVE members propose or suggest ie the leaders must do what the majority of its members(not the majority of farmers) want.If its not what you want ,then join and lobby to change their policy.

rancher

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

TBH rancher you are getting a bit excited about this. The reality is that all the farm organisations are behind the curve on it. They are refusing to tackle the issue. They have this idea that it might effect the mart price of cattle. However as we see finishers losing money will be slower to buy cattle for finishing at the end of this year. If they do they will be much more cautious in they bidding.

The fist thing any factory tells a finisher that is losing money is that they are ''paying too much for store''. Up until lately factory's gave out contracts to finisJers in Sept/Oct to finish cattle. They had less control of the market as the contract was to have cattle ready at X date. If the contract price was stronger than the actual price the finisher wanted to get his cattle slaughtered to reby more cattle whose price were adjusted to that. If the slaughter price was stronger that the contract the finisher still had his margin. This is totally different now where the factory are filling there own feedlots and renting more and using these to dampen prices at the normal high points Dec/jan and May/June.

The story now is that at the end of the year fewer finisher will be around the ringside, who will force the factory's and exporter to pay for weanlings and stores. The farm organisations are failing to react to this. They seem more concerned by weight and age restrictions.

The other thing Rancher while you may not be worried about the issue of where the money comes from to run the oprganisation the permenant staff and top table will always have an eye on this. The reality is that the only way non contracted finishers may be able to get the ball rolling is to stop the slaughter fees. A half a mill drop in income and 10K less members would focus the minds in the Farm Center

It was discussed yesterday, and we couldn't see that we could interfere,
also how many cattle are being fed and how many would it take to manipulate the trade.
Also approx. over 300 voluntary officers are not going to be swayed by a few permanent staff

Farmer Pudsey

paddysdream wrote: »

Not an apologist for the IFA(as a certain poster on here will vouch for!) but;

No one forces you or anyone else to pay those fees or levies,they are entirely voluntary and its child's play to stop them.All it takes is a phone call to the relevant office,mart,creamery,factory etc.
Have a problem with the method of collecting them unless told otherwise buts thats an arguement for another day.

For all those who complain;what are YOU doing about it and what do you propose(bearing in mind that this is real life so lets be realistic) to do about it.All well and fine complaining but whats the answer(assuming you go to meetings,are involved some ways in things etc)

Ifa or any other organisation can only do what ACTIVE members propose or suggest ie the leaders must do what the majority of its members(not the majority of farmers) want.If its not what you want ,then join and lobby to change their policy.

Not true you have to keep asking and they always seem to forget, I have started to ask for them to stop taking them. The cheque has always arrived without same, I have to get them paid seperate. This costs another 40c to cash. On top of that if you deal with 2-3 factory's you have to do the same each time. Whay cannot you opt in or out.

paddysdream

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Not true you have to keep asking and they always seem to forget, I have started to ask for them to stop taking them. The cheque has always arrived without same, I have to get them paid seperate. This costs another 40c to cash. On top of that if you deal with 2-3 factory's you have to do the same each time. Whay cannot you opt in or out.

Never had to ask a second time and sell lambs and ewes to 4 different factories at different times of the year as well as 2 or 3 marts.Some of those I would only maybe send one lot of cast ewes a year to or a few cattle so its not like I am a regular customer.

First thing I ask when dealing with a mart or factory is to only withold the compulsary levies and none of the voluntary ones.Simple really.

rancher

case 956 wrote: »

ye we pying a membership fee and levies on our milk to the ifa... for What??? all they do is sit on there arses and do nothing for the farmer, organise a protest outside leinster house once a year to just get a trip to the smoke, ifa is a disaster of a orginisation that do nothing for farmers and there families

Another very brave anonymous poster I see
If you think you can do better....carry on...democratic organisation etc.etc but you're too lazy ....
Very hard to read this rubbish when the membership is increasing.
20,000 farmers went to a protest that some genius's on boards claimed that no one was going to.
I answer questions for you here, but your negativity does not worry me

Farmer Pudsey

rancher wrote: »

It was discussed yesterday, and we couldn't see that we could interfere,
also how many cattle are being fed and how many would it take to manipulate the trade.
Also approx. over 300 voluntary officers are not going to be swayed by a few permanent staff

Not as many as people think if cattle flow is adequate. Look at what happen last December the factory's killed there own cattle during December/January. This allowd them to back up other farmers cattle. There is no fear that they will let there own cattle go over fat. This then allowed them to control the kill from Dec on. They then could get fussy about cattle, they did not want bulls or heavy cattle. Now when bulls are cheap they are killing them at full tilt and backing up prime cattle. Finishing is a tight game, bullocks and heifers struggle after 100 days feeding if on adlib. Lads feeding same for 3 weeks longer than normal then have to kill when cattle are booked in as the cannot afford any more delay.

I will agree that the number of finished cattle was higher than normal. They also distorted the price to buyers last September by driving the price of store. While this may seem to be to the advantage of the store producer this year in a year or two time it will be they that ditcate the price around the ring. I had one IFA man ( a store man) that they need the factory man around the ring , as I explained to him what happens if a few hundred finishers are not around the ring in 2-3 years time.

The factory man around the ring will not pay a high price forever, for instance are there any factory men buying cattle to go straight to the factory at present and are they paying above the finished price.

If the different factorys put 20K cattle into feedlots and it is usually only prime cattle they put in. Even though the kill is 30K/week 2-3k.week make a big difference. For all the talk that the fridges are full they are killing 33-34K cattle/week for the last 12 week so they must have no issue selling same. I suppose if you buy cheap it is easy to sell at a discount.

Farmer Pudsey

rancher wrote: »

Another very brave anonymous poster I see
If you think you can do better....carry on...democratic organisation etc.etc but you're too lazy ....
Very hard to read this rubbish when the membership is increasing.
20,000 farmers went to a protest that some genius's on boards claimed that no one was going to.
I answer questions for you here, but your negativity does not worry me

Rancher Boards is an anonymous forum you continual using of this expression is dispicable but then again you are only acting the bully and trying to silence other contributors. We all have user names that is the rules if yoou are not happy with it take it up with the moderators.

I see that you continually use this to silence criticism. It is unfair to call any contributor lazy and few trade unions are democratic any longer. Most are finding that the only way to voice there opinion is to withdraw support from the organisation. I do not think that 20K farmers were at any protest in a while and it will be a long time again befire they get as many. It will be interesting to see membership figure over the next year or two because I get the feeling that a lot of members are unhappy.

whelan2

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Rancher Boards is an anonymous forum you continual using of this expression is dispicable but then again you are only acting the bully and trying to silence other contributors. We all have user names that is the rules if yoou are not happy with it take it up with the moderators.

I see that you continually use this to silence criticism. It is unfair to call any contributor lazy and few trade unions are democratic any longer. Most are finding that the only way to voice there opinion is to withdraw support from the organisation. I do not think that 20K farmers were at any protest in a while and it will be a long time again befire they get as many. It will be interesting to see membership figure over the next year or two because I get the feeling that a lot of members are unhappy.

i for one have given up saying anything about the ifa on here as i do feel "bullied " by the comments of a poster on here. Sad way to be really. In reality people do not have time to go to the streets to protest or to go to meetings.

paddysdream

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Not as many as people think if cattle flow is adequate. Look at what happen last December the factory's killed there own cattle during December/January. This allowd them to back up other farmers cattle. There is no fear that they will let there own cattle go over fat. This then allowed them to control the kill from Dec on. They then could get fussy about cattle, they did not want bulls or heavy cattle. Now when bulls are cheap they are killing them at full tilt and backing up prime cattle. Finishing is a tight game, bullocks and heifers struggle after 100 days feeding if on adlib. Lads feeding same for 3 weeks longer than normal then have to kill when cattle are booked in as the cannot afford any more delay.

I will agree that the number of finished cattle was higher than normal. They also distorted the price to buyers last September by driving the price of store. While this may seem to be to the advantage of the store producer this year in a year or two time it will be they that ditcate the price around the ring. I had one IFA man ( a store man) that they need the factory man around the ring , as I explained to him what happens if a few hundred finishers are not around the ring in 2-3 years time.

The factory man around the ring will not pay a high price forever, for instance are there any factory men buying cattle to go straight to the factory at present and are they paying above the finished price.

If the different factorys put 20K cattle into feedlots and it is usually only prime cattle they put in. Even though the kill is 30K/week 2-3k.week make a big difference. For all the talk that the fridges are full they are killing 33-34K cattle/week for the last 12 week so they must have no issue selling same. I suppose if you buy cheap it is easy to sell at a discount.

Lots of time here to talk sh**e today as minding the young lad who is sick, so;

What do people propose?

A regulator? more quango with no effect and do we really want more not less government interference in agriculture?

Ban Larry et co. keeping cattle? him first then maybe a few big finishers then maybe that auld neighbour we don't like,then why not move on to anyone with dairy cows etc etc.unworkable and not really free enterprise etc.

Complete cattle blockade? won't work as farmers will do this for a week at max then collapse when any pressure comes on or government says boo.

Any other ideas?

Mad4simmental

paddysdream wrote: »

Lots of time here to talk sh**e today as minding the young lad who is sick, so;

What do people propose?

A regulator? more quango with no effect and do we really want more not less government interference in agriculture?

Ban Larry et co. keeping cattle? him first then maybe a few big finishers then maybe that auld neighbour we don't like,then why not move on to anyone with dairy cows etc etc.unworkable and not really free enterprise etc.

Complete cattle blockade? won't work as farmers will do this for a week at max then collapse when any pressure comes on or government says boo.

Any other ideas?

Only one spud in the fields idea, but
It would be grate if we could start a farmers factory, owned by the farmers that supply it. Not easy to do by any means but a nice dream!
Try get contracts to all the irish supermarkets to try ensure a constant flow of beef. Cut the middle man out so to speak.

tomwaterford

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Only one spud in the fields idea, but
It would be grate if we could start a farmers factory, owned by the farmers that supply it. Not easy to do by any means but a nice dream!
Try get contracts to all the irish supermarkets to try ensure a constant flow of beef. Cut the middle man out so to speak.

to do this you will have to set up facility to process waste as AFAIK the present factory that deos that is owned by main beef processer in Ireland at the min!!

will the farmers take a cut in there profits from new factory to run this second factory....they will have to

rancher

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Rancher Boards is an anonymous forum you continual using of this expression is dispicable but then again you are only acting the bully and trying to silence other contributors. We all have user names that is the rules if yoou are not happy with it take it up with the moderators.

I see that you continually use this to silence criticism. It is unfair to call any contributor lazy and few trade unions are democratic any longer. Most are finding that the only way to voice there opinion is to withdraw support from the organisation. I do not think that 20K farmers were at any protest in a while and it will be a long time again befire they get as many. It will be interesting to see membership figure over the next year or two because I get the feeling that a lot of members are unhappy.

I consider cases post an abusive post and will be refuted similarily
As for calling them lazy, isn't that just a polite way saying what they said......sitting on their arses