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Medical Consultants

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    #32
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    If I order a CT/MRI etc.... the insurance company pays the hospital to preform the test and also pays the consultant radiologist to report on the CT/ MRI. The person who orders the test gets no money out of this test, only the information in order to help with the diagnosis.

    Some test that I might do myself such as biopsies are paid directly to me but these days that is very little money...

    The insurance companies are jacking up the cost to you as a member and slashing the fee to us regularly.
    Aviva cut my specialty 10% 2 years ago and are trying to cut us 33% again through the back door presently.
    LAYA cut all medical and surgical fees 5% last month
    VHI are trying to implement barriers to speedy treatment at present. This to slow and frustrate treatment and leave patients in pain and infection in the meantime....

    Medical insurance and medical insurance patients are not the gold mine you think they are....


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    #33
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    sarahrt8 wrote: »
    Barman - I really think you should go on the public waiting list - it's actually not that bad. You probably don't realise how bitter you actually are about having to pay for private healthcare.


    I think if you re read my posts you will see that I have paid for many consultants in the past. I can afford private health care and have done for many years.

    No one seems to be able to do the maths in subtracting 180 from 300.


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    #34
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    I can see it now. It's a wet Monday afternoon and a medical consultant, weary from 20 years of medical training is checking his income and expenses. His eyes are bleary as it's 9 PM and he's just finished his evening rounds, having started his morning rounds at 7 am that morning.

    He's depressed. Costs are going up all around him - taxes, rents, indemnities, it never ends. He needs to make cuts somewhere. What will it be? Should he change his stationery? Use 80g paper instead of 90g? Good God no! People notice important things like that. His reputation would never recover.

    It's time to bring his secretary in tomorrow morning. A pay cut is in order. Whatever happens the paper must stay.


    14 hours @ 1200 per hour ( 300 x 15 mins ) would come to 16800 per day - especially if he took no lunch. If my calculation is spurious - so is yours.

    I think he can afford the paper. And the secretary.

    He must have some very high costs elsewhere.


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    #35
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    If I order a CT/MRI etc.... the insurance company pays the hospital to preform the test and also pays the consultant radiologist to report on the CT/ MRI. The person who orders the test gets no money out of this test, only the information in order to help with the diagnosis.

    Some test that I might do myself such as biopsies are paid directly to me but these days that is very little money...

    The insurance companies are jacking up the cost to you as a member and slashing the fee to us regularly.
    Aviva cut my specialty 10% 2 years ago and are trying to cut us 33% again through the back door presently.
    LAYA cut all medical and surgical fees 5% last month
    VHI are trying to implement barriers to speedy treatment at present. This to slow and frustrate treatment and leave patients in pain and infection in the meantime....

    Medical insurance and medical insurance patients are not the gold mine you think they are....

    You make my case that the insurance companies are attacking this area....I rest that case.


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    #36
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    barman linen wrote: »
    14 hours @ 1200 per hour ( 300 x 15 mins ) would come to 16800 per day - especially if he took no lunch. If my calculation is spurious - so is yours.

    I think he can afford the paper. And the secretary.

    He must have some very high costs elsewhere.


    That calculation is the funniest sh1t I've seen in a long time.

    First he would have to find 56 new private patients a day (impossible) and only do new patient consultations on all of them.

    So, no time for follow ups, check visits, procedures, writing notes, letters, dictations, certs and reports, studies and journals.....


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    #37
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    barman linen wrote: »
    You make my case that the insurance companies are attacking this area....I rest that case.

    Your incoherent case that doesn't appear to realise that, for starters, initial consultation fees (which is what you are moaning about) are either not covered or are reimbursed pro-rata; meaning that the insurer has no influence over them at all.


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    #38
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    MYOB wrote: »
    Your incoherent case that doesn't appear to realise that, for starters, initial consultation fees (which is what you are moaning about) are either not covered or are reimbursed pro-rata; meaning that the insurer has no influence over them at all.


    Exactly and as the insurance companies cut the procedure fees, the consultants will up the consultation fees to compensate....


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    #39
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    barman linen wrote: »
    You make my case that the insurance companies are attacking this area....I rest that case.

    No you don't make your case, it's all over the place and nonsensical. A consultant just explained to you that ordering tests makes no difference financially to them and the less the insurance company pays the more the patient will have to pay. It's simple really.

    Again, if the consultant wants €300, go somewhere else where the charge is €180. It's simple, it really is.

    If you are going to dictate what tests are and aren't done, therefore limiting the effectiveness of the consultation, what's the point of going at all? You seem to know it all, you diagnose and treat your daughter. It's only your daughter's health, I'm sure it would be far more important if it was yours.

    Here's the best bit of advice you and in particular your daughter is going to receive, let the mum go to the appointment with her. It's important that the accompanying parent is able to understand what is going on and makes the decisions in the best interest of the child, not themselves. Some common sense also helps, mums tend to have that, in spades.


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    #40
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    barman linen wrote: »
    14 hours @ 1200 per hour ( 300 x 15 mins ) would come to 16800 per day - especially if he took no lunch. If my calculation is spurious - so is yours.

    I think he can afford the paper. And the secretary.

    He must have some very high costs elsewhere.

    Oral Surgeon answered this much more eloquently than I could have done.

    Just needless to say, your naked bias is now just blinding you to reason.


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    #41
    BazzaDP
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭BazzaDP


    I can see some of the OPs point and think some of you are being a little harsh on them. If you're paying a professional then you expect some professionalism - especially if they are charging considerably more than similar professionals. Of course the quality of the paper or the font doesn't matter compared to the medical care they are going to receive but it doesn't create the best image at the start of a professional relationship and would make me consider if they were as lackadaisical in their medical work.

    Saying that, without knowing exactly who the consultant is (which I agree shouldn't really be blasted over a public forum), it's impossible to argue if they are worth the extra so it's a bit of a pointless thread if it was opened to actually get an answer though is more useful to start debate. Interestingly the OP seems to be sticking with the consultant suggest they either specialism or have some other redeeming qualities making it worth sticking with them (which kind of goes against the OPs argument that 21 other people could do this for a lot cheaper).

    No harm calling out rip offs rather than just swallowing what you think might be unfair charges as, even if your insurance company is paying for it, it will eventually come back to you in terms of higher premiums. However I don't think this case is as clear cut as that and if it was OP would surely just have requested another referral and gone elsewhere.


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    #42
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    Exactly and as the insurance companies cut the procedure fees, the consultants will up the consultation fees to compensate....


    So increased fees are a rip off ?


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    #43
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    BazzaDP wrote: »
    . Interestingly the OP seems to be sticking with the consultant suggest they either specialism or have some other redeeming qualities making it worth sticking with them (which kind of goes against the OPs argument that 21 other people could do this for a lot cheaper).

    .

    The reason I am sticking with consultant is that I have been referred as part of a series of tests to uncover an issue. A highly respected consultant ( by me ) has passed me on to this chap so I am going with his recommendation.

    Incidentally the referring consultant only charged 100 euro for his work. Hence my description of rip off. Captured ...but ripped off.

    And yes....the paper and presentation do matter. How many CVs have you sent in on crap paper or turned up in jeans for interview and expected your amazing skills to carry the day ?


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    #44
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    That calculation is the funniest sh1t I've seen in a long time.

    First he would have to find 56 new private patients a day (impossible) and only do new patient consultations on all of them.

    So, no time for follow ups, check visits, procedures, writing notes, letters, dictations, certs and reports, studies and journals.....

    No more ridiculous than your bleeding heart description of his 14 day. If he doesnt like his job after 20 years then he should make some choices.


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    #45
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    barman linen wrote: »
    So increased fees are a rip off ?

    Eh, no...
    If the insurance does not pay the fee then someone has to....


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    #46
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    barman linen wrote: »
    No more ridiculous than your bleeding heart description of his 14 day. If he doesnt like his job after 20 years then he should make some choices.

    What bleeding heart description was that now????


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    #47
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    barman linen wrote: »
    No more ridiculous than your bleeding heart description of his 14 day. If he doesnt like his job after 20 years then he should make some choices.

    He probably loves his job, and charges €300 to do it. If your original consultant (who charged €100 then referred you to someone else) sent you to this guy, that tells me he is recognised as an authority on this illness, even by his peers who charge less. I'd be interested to read what the mum thinks after reading your posts, bet ya it's the same as everyone else.

    Call out the rip off all you want, if the guy is that good that other consultants refer to him when they are stumped then he won't care less what you say, it's either pay him or don't, a binary decision. All you will do is hinder your daughter and come across as a guy who cares more about a consultant making money than his own daughter's health. Paper bugs him? What a prize winner.


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    #48
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    barman linen wrote: »
    No more ridiculous than your bleeding heart description of his 14 day. If he doesnt like his job after 20 years then he should make some choices.

    And if you don't want to pay €300, then go elsewhere. You, too, have a choice.


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    #49
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    Eh, no...
    If the insurance does not pay the fee then someone has to....


    Eh yes.....the ripped off consumers.


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    #50
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    Oral Surgeon wrote: »
    What bleeding heart description was that now????


    Apologies....It was Arbiter that posted the sorry spectacle of a wearisome consultant working 14 hour days. Poor fella.


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    #51
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    davo10 wrote: »
    He probably loves his job, and charges €300 to do it. If your original consultant (who charged €100 then referred you to someone else) sent you to this guy, that tells me he is recognised as an authority on this illness, even by his peers who charge less. I'd be interested to read what the mum thinks after reading your posts, bet ya it's the same as everyone else.

    Call out the rip off all you want, if the guy is that good that other consultants refer to him when they are stumped then he won't care less what you say, it's either pay him or don't, a binary decision. All you will do is hinder your daughter and come across as a guy who cares more about a consultant making money than his own daughter's health. Paper bugs him? What a prize winner.


    Keep your head in the sand Dave....all over this town professionals have lost their b******* in 'lucrative property syndicates'. Fees are going up because the Government has introduced levies and has made cuts to health provisions - to pay for the folly of the lucrative property syndicates. Consultants have to raise fees to cover these additional costs - as someone referred to above.

    We paid then and we are paying again now. Flame me all you want - I can see the reality every single working day in my job. Reality - not your rose coloured spectacles.

    No matter how good this chap is - 300 against a range of 100 - 180 in his peer group is a rip off.

    I will pay it - but it is still a rip off.

    Isn't that what this forum is ?

    BTW your sexist comments about the mum are misplaced and ignorant.


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    #52
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    barman linen wrote: »
    Keep your head in the sand Dave....all over this town professionals have lost their b******* in 'lucrative property syndicates'. Fees are going up because the Government has introduced levies and has made cuts to health provisions - to pay for the folly of the lucrative property syndicates. Consultants have to raise fees to cover these additional costs - as someone referred to above.

    We paid then and we are paying again now. Flame me all you want - I can see the reality every single working day in my job. Reality - not your rose coloured spectacles.

    No matter how good this chap is - 300 against a range of 100 - 180 in his peer group is a rip off.

    I will pay it - but it is still a rip off.

    Isn't that what this forum is ?

    BTW your sexist comments about the mum are misplaced and ignorant.


    Just because you don't want to pay it, does not make it a rip off. Your €100 consultant (who you are happy with) couldn't help you and referred you to an expert. Pay the €300 or don't, if you feel that strongly I don't understand why you are paying it, you want to stand up to this "Emporer in new clothes" this guy who owes his shirt to Nama, etc, etc but at the same time your realise that he must be good and will pay it.

    You looked back over my previous posts on other forums to make a point, here's one for you: this isn't the first letter you received that you didn't like, there was the letter from a solicitor regarding unpaid utility bills and of course the summons from your wife to family court. Maybe this has nothing to do with the consultant, you just don't like receiving letters which require you to pay.


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    #53
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    barman linen wrote: »
    No matter how good this chap is - 300 against a range of 100 - 180 in his peer group is a rip off.

    I will pay it - but it is still a rip off.

    If you're so certain you can get people of a similar quality for 100 to 180, why on earth are you going to pay 300? Suggests that you really do like being able to have a whinge and a moan more than anything else.


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    #54
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    davo10 wrote: »
    . Maybe this has nothing to do with the consultant, you just don't like receiving letters which require you to pay.

    Or maybe it means I stand up for myself and dont pander to the perceived superiority of certain professional classes.

    In both the cases you mentioned I was successful in arguing my case - winning an apology from the firm of solicitors and getting a better outcome in court.

    At least Judges have more wisdom than most of the contributors in this forum.

    It pays to stand up for yourself - even though our society - and certain web forums - dont seem to like it.


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    #55
    Oral Surgeon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭Oral Surgeon


    barman linen wrote: »
    Or maybe it means I stand up for myself and dont pander to the perceived superiority of certain professional classes.

    In both the cases you mentioned I was successful in arguing my case - winning an apology from the firm of solicitors and getting a better outcome in court.

    At least Judges have more wisdom than most of the contributors in this forum.

    It pays to stand up for yourself - even though our society - and certain web forums - dont seem to like it.

    What is a rip off?? A higher price for the same goods or services maybe??

    If you believe that this consultants services are the same as those charging less, then vote with your feet and don't go to him.

    The reality is that you believe this consultant to be superior to the others. Therefore, can he not charge extra for his extra skill/knowledge/experience??

    Either way, stop moaning about it. I don't complain that a BMW is a rip off just because it costs more than a Ford.


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    #56
    Mr. McGreg
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Mr. McGreg


    Consultants are the very tip of the medical profession, they're never going to be cheap? It's also not mandatory to pay to see them, good stuff, pay or don't pay, go or don't go, democracy is great.


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    #57
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    Mr. McGreg wrote: »
    Consultants are the very tip of the medical profession, they're never going to be cheap? It's also not mandatory to pay to see them, good stuff, pay or don't pay, go or don't go, democracy is great.


    180 is not cheap - for someone at the very tip of their profession. 300 is a rip off. No matter how many consultants come on here to justify it - it is a rip off.


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    #58
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    barman linen wrote: »
    180 is not cheap - for someone at the very tip of their profession. 300 is a rip off. No matter how many consultants come on here to justify it - it is a rip off.

    Why are you paying it? It's a simple question, none of us understand this. You are droning on/whinging about the price, you know there are others who cost less but you are still going to pay this more expensive consultant, so you must feel he's worth it or it doesn't make sense to any of the rest of us, for you not to go to the cheaper alternative. You can get it free (you wouldn't have to spend a cent on your daughters health) on the public list, surely that appeals to you?

    You are a crusader, a champion for the consumer, a "caller outer" of indebted professionals everywhere, but at the end of the day when given a choice of paying lower prices or none at all, you choose the higher price. What a prize winner.

    It's like my little boy, he has his own money, he wants sweeties but doesn't want to use his own money to buy them so he throws a strop, I tell him when he grows up he'll understand that everything has it's price and if you really want it, you have to pay for it.


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    #59
    Mr. McGreg
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Mr. McGreg


    barman linen wrote: »
    180 is not cheap - for someone at the very tip of their profession. 300 is a rip off. No matter how many consultants come on here to justify it - it is a rip off.

    I can assure you, I am the furthest thing from a doctor of any sort! Can't speak for the rest of the posters but surely you understand that someone in one of the highest positions in the medical field, specializing in something that very few can do will charge high prices? Just because it's healthcare doesn't mean they're going to work for less like! If you were looking for a specialist in any other profession you'd expect to pay for it right?


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    #60
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    barman linen wrote: »
    180 is not cheap - for someone at the very tip of their profession. 300 is a rip off. No matter how many consultants come on here to justify it - it is a rip off.

    So why are you going to pay it?

    Moaning to the ends of the earth, as you're doing, and yet paying is one way to ensure that prices will just go up further. With all your bitching you're just perpetuating the issue.

    Either vote with your feet or put up.


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    #61
    barman linen
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭barman linen


    The nature of my daughter's illness and the series of consultants we have been to see to discover the cause has been extensive.

    As each consultant has cleared her from their speciality they refer her to another consultant to check another avenue. I would expect no less.

    No other consultant ( 3 so far ) has charged more than 100 per consultation. This chap - last in the chain is 300. That is a rip off and I am only going to him because of the chain of tests that are all in her file. If this was a simple event I would not go near this chap.

    I am perfectly entitled to call this a rip off in the context of his peer group. As long as I can remember consultants never charged such fees and they are creeping in now.

    How many of you have paid in excess of 180 for a consultant lately ?

    I would regard some of the earlier tests as being of more sophistication than this final one and they charged a lot less.

    So - it is still a rip off.


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