Medical Consultants

barman linen

I dont know if this is the correct forum but here goes.

I have attended medical consultants in the past and have paid fees from 100 - 180 euro with Professors charging the higher end.

I have to take my daughter to see a consultant and have received what I can only describe as an extortionate and pecuniary letter.

The letter does not refer to the standard of care we can expect but instead opens with the opening fee of 300 euro ! ( this is a DR ...not a MR or Prof )

It goes on to describe follow up fees at 180 euro per visit and then threatens to charge 100 a go for no show ( no contract ).

What scares me more is that the letter is printed on cheap paper and an obvious dot matrix printer using the Comic Sans font.

The email address is a 'free' Telco account !

So is this a rip off and am I paying for the Celtic Tiger transgressions of this consultant ?

I want my daughter seen to with the best possible care but am very wary of this chap....

Any insight ..?

davo10

You are not paying for the consultant, you can get that for free on the public waiting list, you are paying to skip the que. What you have to ask yourself is if it is worth paying €300 to jump to the front of the que. The advice diagnosis and treatment will be the same either way.

barman linen

davo10 wrote: »

You are not paying for the consultant, you can get that for free on the public waiting list, you are paying to skip the que. What you have to ask yourself is if it is worth paying €300 to jump to the front of the que. The advice diagnosis and treatment will be the same either way.

What I am saying is that the normal fee has been in the 100-180 area and now we are at 300. I am well aware of the public system and what paying for a consultant brings.

Is his medical experience worth up to 150% more in fees than his peer group when he cant seem to afford or want to project a professional image by using a proper email address service and headed paper ?

davo10

barman linen wrote: »

Is his medical experience worth up to 150% more in fees than his peer group when he cant seem to afford or want to project a professional image by using a proper email address service and headed paper ?

Forget the paper, what difference does it make if its 60grm or 500grm, the important question is, do you think it's worth paying that amount to be seen immediately at a private consulting room or do you want to join the public waiting list and wait a year. In a couple of years time we will all be paying €1900 per year for the privilege of being on one long list.

sarahrt8

barman linen wrote: »

What I am saying is that the normal fee has been in the 100-180 area and now we are at 300. I am well aware of the public system and what paying for a consultant brings.

Is his medical experience worth up to 150% more in fees than his peer group when he cant seem to afford or want to project a professional image by using a proper email address service and headed paper ?

Ridiculous point about what paper he uses. If you want fancy paper, I'll write you a letter for a tenner. You're paying for his medical expertise, the fact that he is at the top in his chosen field, and to skip the queue.

If you dont want to pay the money, join the public queue like everyone else. It sounds like you're extremely bitter - you want an expert, you dont want to pay money for it, and you dont want to wait in the public queue. With private health care there are no set fees. Nothing to stop one consultant charging 50 euro and another charging 500 euro.

Rabbo

Firstly, if he is a Dr. rather than Mr. might just mean that he is a non-surgical consultant but a consultant all the same.


If you are willing to pay private, he can charge what he wants. Why not ask your GP for a referral to a different consultant?

I wouldn't get too bogged down on the paper and font the consultant uses, Id be more worried about their reputation as a doctor.

barman linen

sarahrt8 wrote: »

Ridiculous point about what paper he uses. If you want fancy paper, I'll write you a letter for a tenner. You're paying for his medical expertise, the fact that he is at the top in his chosen field, and to skip the queue.

If you dont want to pay the money, join the public queue like everyone else. It sounds like you're extremely bitter - you want an expert, you dont want to pay money for it, and you dont want to wait in the public queue. With private health care there are no set fees. Nothing to stop one consultant charging 50 euro and another charging 500 euro.

I pay 100 - 180 for a variety of medical services and question constantly the quality of service.

I attended a consultant this last summer and paid for three consultations and about 3K in insured procedures - to be told - 'I dont know what is wrong'. 3.5 K down and no outcome - for what might be seen as a routine gastro issue.

His final word was - if it doesnt clear up - come back. I refused his follow up appointment as he was milking the system and the insurance company.

At least he had what I would see as a professional service and back up support that would add cost to his medical expertise.


This guy has 200% higher fees ( 100 to 300 ) AND seems to operate on a shoestring in his cost base.

My question is his expertise so much better than his peers when I can find no such justification in his online CV ?

Lay off the public vs Private debate - I get that - the core question is - is he arbitrarily raising his fees to ridiculous amounts and am I into another spiral of tests and procedures that will milk the insurance company. Costs that will eventually come into premia.


Would you take on face value a door to door tarmac man rather than a more reputable contractor with a demonstrable track record,presence and attitude ?

L1011

What speciality are they in?

Some are in such short supply that they likely feel they can charge €300 due to the rarity factor. In other specialities I'd just ask to be re-referred by your GP/previous consultant/whoever.

barman linen

MYOB wrote: »

What speciality are they in?

Some are in such short supply that they likely feel they can charge €300 due to the rarity factor. In other specialities I'd just ask to be re-referred by your GP/previous consultant/whoever.

There is at least 22 consultants doing the same thing and I think that is a reasonable supply. I am not going to identify the discipline. Whatever my daughter needs she will get but we have to start questioning the unbelieveable amounts of cash these people are charging.

The troika wanted the Government to dismantle the legal systems but we seem to be ready to accept 200% increase in medical fees becuse we 'have to' accept their 'medical expertise'

Could I refuse to pay if he finds nothing ? (like the last 'expert'?)

Bear in mind his letter at no point referred to the medical care we could expect and concentrated on his fees and penalty structure. Should I be worried about his bedside manner when he seems more concerned in being paid?

My dentist told me recently that he lost everything in the Celtic Tiger and will be working until he is 70. Are we to bail out these guys as well as the taxes we paid to bail out the banks ?

Ask your friends how many unnecessary or inconsequential tests they have undergone recently at the hands of medical consultants.

lonestargirl

You could just go to one of the other 21 consultants, a free market works both ways.

L1011

barman linen wrote: »

There is at least 22 consultants doing the same thing and I think that is a reasonable supply.

Depends on demand. Try one - or many - of the other 21.

Medicine never works on a no foal no fee basis though.

barman linen

lonestargirl wrote: »

You could just go to one of the other 21 consultants, a free market works both ways.

And you don't think I have worked that out....? Is this not the Rip Off forum ?

davo10

barman linen wrote: »

And you don't think I have worked that out....? Is this not the Rip Off forum ?

It is, but it's a free market, if one of the other 21 charges less, then you are free to go there. He could charge €1000 if he wants and if people are willing to pay then good luck to him. Again the question is, is he worth €300 to you, if not then you won't be ripped off as you won't be paying it. If he is worth €300 then he is getting paid what the market will bare so he is getting paid what he is worth.

Do you know for instance what his indemnity costs are? What are his room and staff costs? If he is on one of the new consultant contracts then his private practice has been reduced meaning less patients to cover the costs of his private work etc etc. Yet you focus on the quality of his paper, would he be a better Doctor if he used 500grm sheets and a laser printer?

By the way, Dentists are paid on a fee per item basis, ie you don't bail them out, they only get paid for any treatments done. And if it was a "routine gastric" problem, I doubt the consultant would have said he wasn't sure what was causing the problem, the symptoms might be simple but the diagnosis and treatment isn't. Sometimes the best treatment is to do nothing and moniter the situation.

sarahrt8

barman linen wrote: »

I pay 100 - 180 for a variety of medical services and question constantly the quality of service.

I attended a consultant this last summer and paid for three consultations and about 3K in insured procedures - to be told - 'I dont know what is wrong'. 3.5 K down and no outcome - for what might be seen as a routine gastro issue.

His final word was - if it doesnt clear up - come back. I refused his follow up appointment as he was milking the system and the insurance company.

At least he had what I would see as a professional service and back up support that would add cost to his medical expertise.


This guy has 200% higher fees ( 100 to 300 ) AND seems to operate on a shoestring in his cost base.

My question is his expertise so much better than his peers when I can find no such justification in his online CV ?

Lay off the public vs Private debate - I get that - the core question is - is he arbitrarily raising his fees to ridiculous amounts and am I into another spiral of tests and procedures that will milk the insurance company. Costs that will eventually come into premia.


Would you take on face value a door to door tarmac man rather than a more reputable contractor with a demonstrable track record,presence and attitude ?

Once again, free market. He wouldn't be charging those fees if he wasn't getting people to pay them. He doesn't have to prove his track record to anyone.

No, you're not entitled to money back if a consultant doesn't fix your problem. Tough luck - medicine is not an exact science.
I see you're very fairly fond of litigation but no, you wouldn't have any grounds to get money back in that instance. By the way, that significantly pushes the cost up for everyone.

If you think the consultant you saw last summer was in anyway wrong in his approach, you can always complain to the Medical Council. And dont worry too much about your poor insurance company - they know exactly what they're doing and are profitable for a reason.

barman linen

davo10 wrote: »

It is, but it's a free market, if one of the other 21 charges less, then you are free to go there. He could charge €1000 if he wants and if people are willing to pay then good luck to him. Again the question is, is he worth €300 to you, if not then you won't be ripped off as you won't be paying it. If he is worth €300 then he is getting paid what the market will bare so he is getting paid what he is worth.

Do you know for instance what his indemnity costs are? What are his room and staff costs? If he is on one of the new consultant contracts then his private practice has been reduced meaning less patients to cover the costs of his private work etc etc. Yet you focus on the quality of his paper, would he be a better Doctor if he used 500grm sheets and a laser printer?

By the way, Dentists are paid on a fee per item basis, ie you don't bail them out, they only get paid for any treatments done. And if it was a "routine gastric" problem, I doubt the consultant would have said he wasn't sure what was causing the problem, the symptoms might be simple but the diagnosis and treatment isn't. Sometimes the best treatment is to do nothing and moniter the situation.

You make my argument.

If his indemnity costs are high ( higher than his peers ) - how good is he?

His rooms are in a private hospital so would be the same as his peers ( who charge less)

I work on the moral of the 'Emperors New Clothes' and am calling him out for what I see as rip off charges

You seem to condone the public system covering the costs of private work ? Yet his fees are still almost 200% above his peers in different disciplines that are subject to the same conditions ( of which I know nothing)

I am not suggesting better paper would make him a better doctor but I am certainly questioning his cost base relative to his charges - the fundemental basis on which a price is arranged.

You missed my dentist point - he lost his shirt and now has to keep working. In his case he called me for six months to secure the 'business' How many of you have had your dentist do that ?

To your last point....if 'do nothing and monitor' is the best solution - why do that when you are 3.5 K down the road ? Why not do it straight away and observe Hippocrates ?

barman linen

sarahrt8 wrote: »

Once again, free market. He wouldn't be charging those fees if he wasn't getting people to pay them. He doesn't have to prove his track record to anyone.

No, you're not entitled to money back if a consultant doesn't fix your problem. Tough luck - medicine is not an exact science.
I see you're very fairly fond of litigation but no, you wouldn't have any grounds to get money back in that instance. By the way, that significantly pushes the cost up for everyone.

If you think the consultant you saw last summer was in anyway wrong in his approach, you can always complain to the Medical Council. And dont worry too much about your poor insurance company - they know exactly what they're doing and are profitable for a reason.

Sarah...

He doesn't have to prove his track record ? I won't even bother to answer that one it is so absurd .

Where do you see my fondness for litigation ? Once again -absurd

The consultant in the summer kicked off this situation in my mind. I see my parents subjected to batteries of tests that are repititive and in my opinion delivering no additional value other than to milk a system and prevent malpractice suits.

As for the insurance companies --- are you sure they are making profits ?!

Do you know what medical inflation is ?

davo10

barman linen wrote: »

You make my argument.

If his indemnity costs are high ( higher than his peers ) - how good is he?

His rooms are in a private hospital so would be the same as his peers ( who charge less)

I work on the moral of the 'Emperors New Clothes' and am calling him out for what I see as rip off charges

You seem to condone the public system covering the costs of private work ? Yet his fees are still almost 200% above his peers in different disciplines that are subject to the same conditions ( of which I know nothing)

I am not suggesting better paper would make him a better doctor but I am certainly questioning his cost base relative to his charges - the fundemental basis on which a price is arranged.

You missed my dentist point - he lost his shirt and now has to keep working. In his case he called me for six months to secure the 'business' How many of you have had your dentist do that ?

To your last point....if 'do nothing and monitor' is the best solution - why do that when you are 3.5 K down the road ? Why not do it straight away and observe Hippocrates ?

Medical indemnity costs are shared, obstetricians may pay €100k regardless of whether they have been sued or not. The more risky the procedure/speciality the more the indemnity costs, the higher the likely payout for negligence in that discipline eg obstetrics the higher the premiums.

Rooms are charged differently depending on size, location etc. sometimes two or more consultants share a room, sometimes they rent them individually.

Call him out all you want, he won't give a damn if you are not a patient.

I do agree with you, you know nothing.

The public sector doesn't cover the cost of private patients in the consultants rooms, that is the point of having a private consulting room. Consultants pay their own indemnity for private practice. If you have a private procedure in a public hospital, your insurance pays for it.

Your Dentist advises you to return for a check up in six months and you think this is a sinister ploy to get you to bail him out. D'oh, could it be that six monthly examinations are considered the best way to avoid decay and gum disease?

Because it is only by doing all the tests that they may reach the opinion that no intervention is necessary. Would you feel you got better "value" if he told you that you needed surgery?

And you know what, sometimes a battery of tests is necessary in the diagnostic process. You have to give consent, if there are some tests you don't want your daughter to have, by all means tell the consultant, he'll just note the refusal of consent in the chart and move on to another perhaps less reliable method of diagnosing the problem.

barman linen

davo10 wrote: »

Medical indemnity costs are shared, obstetricians may pay €100k regardless of whether they have been sued or not. The more risky the procedure/speciality the more the indemnity costs, the higher the likely payout for negligence in that discipline eg obstetrics the higher the premiums.

Rooms are charged differently depending on size, location etc. sometimes two or more consultants share a room, sometimes they rent them individually.

Call him out all you want, he won't give a damn if you are not a patient.

I do agree with you, you know nothing.

The public sector doesn't cover the cost of private patients in the consultants rooms, that is the point of having a private consulting room. Consultants pay their own indemnity for private practice. If you have a private procedure in a public hospital, your insurance pays for it.

Your Dentist advises you to return for a check up in six months and you think this is a sinister ploy to get you to bail him out. D'oh, could it be that six monthly examinations are considered the best way to avoid decay and gum disease?

Because it is only by doing all the tests that they may reach the opinion that no intervention is necessary. Would you feel you got better "value" if he told you that you needed surgery?

And you know what, sometimes a battery of tests is necessary in the diagnostic process. You have to give consent, if there are some tests you don't want your daughter to have, by all means tell the consultant, he'll just note the refusal of consent in the chart and move on to another perhaps less reliable method of diagnosing the problem.

Dave

I know a lot more than you think. If you are happy to play diagnostic roulette then off you go.

No one questioned the mess we got ourselves into in the Tiger years. The dogs in the street know the professional classes ( of which I am one ) got in way over their head. Some of them are gone..some of them are charging exorbitant fees to get back to where they were. You may be one of them - I dont know ( something/anything/nothing).

The institutions picking up this tab are mainly the insurance companies and the insured groups.

Call it what you like but we are being ripped off with over charging on fees, multiple diagnostic tests with little value and all under cover of malpractice avoidance and paying back IBRC or whoever they borrowed the property fund from.

As for the Dentist - he had the balls to say he had been cleaned out. He didnt call for a random check up but for a 2000 euro cosmetic/crown case. That is not a normal practice for a dentist.

Your opinion may vary.

davo10

barman linen wrote: »

Dave

I know a lot more than you think. If you are happy to play diagnostic roulette then off you go.

No one questioned the mess we got ourselves into in the Tiger years. The dogs in the street know the professional classes ( of which I am one ) got in way over their head. Some of them are gone..some of them are charging exorbitant fees to get back to where they were. You may be one of them - I dont know ( something/anything/nothing).

The institutions picking up this tab are mainly the insurance companies and the insured groups.

Call it what you like but we are being ripped off with over charging on fees, multiple diagnostic tests with little value and all under cover of malpractice avoidance and paying back IBRC or whoever they borrowed the property fund from.

As for the Dentist - he had the balls to say he had been cleaned out. He didnt call for a random check up but for a 2000 euro cosmetic/crown case. That is not a normal practice for a dentist.

Your opinion may vary.

Again, professionals can charge what they want, if the market will bare what they charge ie people pay it, then they are being paid exactly what they are worth. You are not compelled to pay it, if you feel it is not value, then walk away, others obviously are willing to pay that amount for a service which is free via another though lengthy avenue.

If you don't want your daughter to have certain diagnostic tests be they x-rays, MRI's, blood tests, genetic testing etc, just tell the consultant. It may limit his ability to diagnose the problem but if it makes you happy then so be it. It's your call.

Do you think when a Doctor does a test on a sick patient, they are thinking about IRBC?. I think you are paranoid.

Dentists sending reminders to patients, hmmm that's controversial behaviour alright. Every dentist sends reminders to patients who have unfinished treatments. Like Ceaser you see enemies everywhere.

barman linen

Dave,

I dont see enemies everywhere - but wish I had called out a few bad practices in the Tiger years. God forbid I am paranoid now for doing so.

My daughter will have the best of care because I am in the fortunate position of being able to pay for it ( in conjunction with my insurance - which I pay for)

As I said - your opinion my vary - and it seems to - with which I have no problem.

I do think that many professionals now have one eye on the patient/client and one eye on IBRC et al. You are perhaps naive if you think this is not the case.

I see from 1487 posts you only started 2 threads - one about a golf club etiquette issue - ask your fellow members what is the reality. You may get bull**** but the kid in the emperor's new clothes saw through it. There is a moral in every story.

sarahrt8

Barman - I really think you should go on the public waiting list - it's actually not that bad. You probably don't realise how bitter you actually are about having to pay for private healthcare.

davo10

barman linen wrote: »

Dave,

I dont see enemies everywhere - but wish I had called out a few bad practices in the Tiger years. God forbid I am paranoid now for doing so.

My daughter will have the best of care because I am in the fortunate position of being able to pay for it ( in conjunction with my insurance - which I pay for)

I see from 1487 posts you only started 2 threads - one about a golf club etiquette issue - ask your fellow members what is the reality. You may get bull**** but the kid in the emperor's new clothes saw through it. There is a moral in every story.

But of course you intend to call out the Emperor in new clothes and decide which tests are necessary for your daughter and which are pocket liners for the consultant, I'm interested to know, how do you know which ones are necessary and which aren't? Is it just the ones that give positive results? You should definitely tell that bold consultant that he is to stop thinking about IRBC and only do cheap tests because you want the best treatment for your daughter, as long as no one else profits.

You know, I hadn't thought about the fact that I only started two threads, maybe I'm just happy with my lot. I don't think about the IRBC nor new clothes. If I want to buy goods or services, I do my research, weigh up the benefits and drawbacks of each source and then buy if I feel it is value. Ireland is a small place, no where is that far away so it is easy to order from or travel to virtually everywhere to get what I want.

I do sometimes despair at the lunacy, sense of entitlement and begrudgery that is now prevalent in Ireland. In your case I understand you don't want to pay €300 to this one consultant, I agree it is expensive. I don't understand that you think there is a correlation between the type of paper he uses and his ability as a Doctor.

I understand that if you are not happy with this one, you can go see a different one yet you seem to think you are entitled to see all consultants for the same fee, in other words a cartel should exist where everyone charges the same.

I understand that you want the best for your daughter but you rage that consultants only do expensive tests for their own financial gain which is lunacy, the fact that you think you know better than them about which tests are necessary, which aren't and what benefit they are is both arrogant and dangerous to you and your family .

I understand you now see yourself as a crusader with the mantra " I will call out all new Emperors with new clothes" yet you don't seem to understand that the "Emperor" and his tests may hold the key to the diagnosis and treatment of your daughters ailment.

And now you see a "moral in every story" because I started two threads, one about a golf issue, am I and members of golf clubs in general now part of the conspiracy to charge you more?, I'm comfortable in my clothes, new and well worn, you seem not to be.

barman linen

davo10 wrote: »

But of course you intend to call out the Emperor in new clothes and decide which tests are necessary for your daughter and which are pocket liners for the consultant, I'm interested to know, how do you know which ones are necessary and which aren't? Is it just the ones that give positive results? You should definitely tell that bold consultant that he is to stop thinking about IRBC and only do cheap tests because you want the best treatment for your daughter, as long as no one else profits.

You know, I hadn't thought about the fact that I only started two threads, maybe I'm just happy with my lot. I don't think about the IRBC nor new clothes. If I want to buy goods or services, I do my research, weigh up the benefits and drawbacks of each source and then buy if I feel it is value. Ireland is a small place, no where is that far away so it is easy to order from or travel to virtually everywhere to get what I want.

I do sometimes despair at the lunacy, sense of entitlement and begrudgery that is now prevalent in Ireland. In your case I understand you don't want to pay €300 to this one consultant, I agree it is expensive. I don't understand that you think there is a correlation between the type of paper he uses and his ability as a Doctor.

I understand that if you are not happy with this one, you can go see a different one yet you seem to think you are entitled to see all consultants for the same fee, in other words a cartel should exist where everyone charges the same.

I understand that you want the best for your daughter but you rage that consultants only do expensive tests for their own financial gain which is lunacy, the fact that you think you know better than them about which tests are necessary, which aren't and what benefit they are is both arrogant and dangerous to you and your family .

I understand you now see yourself as a crusader with the mantra " I will call out all new Emperors with new clothes" yet you don't seem to understand that the "Emperor" and his tests may hold the key to the diagnosis and treatment of your daughters ailment.

And now you see a "moral in every story" because I started two threads, one about a golf issue, am I and members of golf clubs in general now part of the conspiracy to charge you more?, I'm comfortable in my clothes, new and well worn, you seem not to be.

I kept my mouth shut like many others during the Tiger and will not do so anymore. Many like you used the above argument when people questioned the status quo. In your golf buggy thread you saw what you thought was wrong and did nothing rather than stick your head above the parapet.

I will challenge the Doctor and see what tests he plans - I do possess some intelligence to work out what is likely to be useful and what is going to pay off his IBRC bill.



This is not just my daughter. My family ( parents ) has had numerous speculative tests for routine items and whether you believe it or not there is a potential for abuse of Insurance companies by this practice. My mother had three tests totalling 800 euro and all she wanted was a holster to carry a blood pressure monitor !

I think you will find that companies like VHI are clamping down on this practice and while I hope we do not get to a US style system where the insurer calls the shots we have to check the potential abuse of this system.

WhyTheFace

Look here Kido.

Pay the 300e or don't. Up to you. Stop whinging and get on with it. All this waffle won't make your child any better.

barman linen

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Look here Kido.

Pay the 300e or don't. Up to you. Stop whinging and get on with it. All this waffle won't make your child any better.

My child will get the best attention.....thanks Kido.

WhyTheFace

barman linen wrote: »

My child will get the best attention.....thanks Kido.

So you are going to pay for the consultant?

L1011

barman linen wrote: »

My child will get the best attention.....thanks Kido.

Considering you've already said you're going to veto tests if you, someone non-medically trained, decides they're not "worth" it, I think we can tell that they're really not.

skelligs

Is this really a rip-off thread (can't see the rip-off) or is it an excuse for someone to whinge because he/she didn't do well out of the celtic tiger.

The amount of time wasted posting about a non-event and a whinge about some dentist, the bailout and the IBRC by the OP is utterly amazing? jeeze!

barman linen

skelligs wrote: »

Is this really a rip-off thread (can't see the rip-off) or is it an excuse for someone to whinge because he/she didn't do well out of the celtic tiger.

The amount of time wasted posting about a non-event and a whinge about some dentist, the bailout and the IBRC by the OP is utterly amazing? jeeze!

300 is a rip off fee in the context of a peer group charging 100 - 180 as a range.

I have first hand knowledge of the Insurance companies railing against this type of fee increase and the actions they are taking to prevent unnecessary tests and procedures which are rampant.

If you lot are happy to just pay whatever the man says then off you go - this is a rip off thread and I am calling this a rip off.

Simples.

Due to the nature of my daughter's complaint I have no choice but to pay but will be monitoring closely what he suggests. For instance...we already have an MRI report so will he order up another ? ( unnecesarily)

Maybe you are all like Bertie who suggested anyone who challenges the 'boom' should commit suicide. And we know how that ended up.

I did very well out of the Tiger for those that are interested but I resent enormously the amount of extra tax I paid to rescue the supposed 'masters of the universe ' ( who could not be questioned)

Ho hum...keep paying through the nose and keeping your mouth shut.

davo10

barman linen wrote: »

300 is a rip off fee in the context of a peer group charging 100 - 180 as a range.

I have first hand knowledge of the Insurance companies railing against this type of fee increase and the actions they are taking to prevent unnecessary tests and procedures which are rampant.

If you lot are happy to just pay whatever the man says then off you go - this is a rip off thread and I am calling this a rip off.

Simples.

Due to the nature of my daughter's complaint I have no choice but to pay but will be monitoring closely what he suggests. For instance...we already have an MRI report so will he order up another ? ( unnecesarily)

Maybe you are all like Bertie who suggested anyone who challenges the 'boom' should commit suicide. And we know how that ended up.

I did very well out of the Tiger for those that are interested but I resent enormously the amount of extra tax I paid to rescue the supposed 'masters of the universe ' ( who could not be questioned)

Ho hum...keep paying through the nose and keeping your mouth shut.

Maybe none of the rest of is would be as cavalier with our children's health. But you know better, don't let that bold Doctor do tests to try and find the cause of and treatment for your daughters ailment. It's much much better that you sleep well at night confident in the knowledge that you saved an insurance a few hundred Euro, to hell with finding out what's best for your little girl. It's bordering on neglect/abuse of the child if you interfere in what is best for her, in my book. Will your conscience be clear if you deny her vital tests and she gets more ill?

Look at the bigger picture, don't let rank stupidity ruin your daughters health.

Arbiter of Good Taste

I can see it now. It's a wet Monday afternoon and a medical consultant, weary from 20 years of medical training is checking his income and expenses. His eyes are bleary as it's 9 PM and he's just finished his evening rounds, having started his morning rounds at 7 am that morning.

He's depressed. Costs are going up all around him - taxes, rents, indemnities, it never ends. He needs to make cuts somewhere. What will it be? Should he change his stationery? Use 80g paper instead of 90g? Good God no! People notice important things like that. His reputation would never recover.

It's time to bring his secretary in tomorrow morning. A pay cut is in order. Whatever happens the paper must stay.