Good economic news thread

Sierra Oscar

JustTheOne wrote: »

Would that be around 150,000 people?

Bless them.

Very foolish of the AAA to think that everyone participating in water protests will vote for them. Very foolish indeed.

The upturn in the economy is really starting to take off now, very noticeable since the buildup to Christmas and it has carried over into the new year. The exchequer returns confirm this.

AAA / SF / ragbag elements must be worried.

KingBrian2

househero wrote: »

Hmm, you do realise it was a manufactured disaster don't you?

We were forced to take on private debt by a now dead finance minister.

If we didn't take in the banks debt our debt to GDP ratio would have remainder FAR below the EU average and even the new EU rules on gov debt.

We were never in as much trouble as it appeared. Our English owned newspapers liked to tell us differently though.

Some truth in what you are saying but that is what the media is going to do. It is up to the public to not give in to the sensationalism. Media will inflame people and go after the big shots. That is good journalism, it is the politicians that must behave in a professional manner and in times of hardship would you trust our politicians to stand up for Ireland. Quite a few do but many still don't. It was Gov Patrick Honohan who did the right thing.

househero

Saipanne wrote: »

Some fella in the pub told ya that, did he?

I don't drink. Or read newspapers. Its a good life.

frankbrett

househero wrote: »

I don't drink. Or read newspapers. Its a good life.

If you don't read newspapers how do you know the British owned newspapers manufactured the crisis?

Did those newspapers secretly deport thousands of workers, hide €20bn pa from the State balance sheet, short Irish bonds to drive yields up to double figures, deny wholesale funding to the Irish banks etc as part of this elaborate ruse?

KingBrian2

frankbrett wrote: »

If you don't read newspapers how do you know the British owned newspapers manufactured the crisis?

Did those newspapers secretly deport thousands of workers, hide €20bn pa from the State balance sheet, short Irish bonds to drive yields up to double figures, deny wholesale funding to the Irish banks etc as part of this elaborate ruse?

Some papers in England, admittingly the tabloid ones, although a few of the broadsheets were gunning for national bankruptcy.

lisasimpson

ardmacha wrote: »

Clearly everyone has not emigrated, hence the increased traffic on the M50 and even Dublin Bus as well as the increased taxes etc mentioned above.

I think people can see this for themselves.

true traffic is a lot heavier on the south ring road in cork too.. and a number of my friends have returned home or are planning on returning home in the next 12 months

Kermit.de.frog

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Some papers in England, admittingly the tabloid ones, although a few of the broadsheets were gunning for national bankruptcy.

They have a vested interest though in seeing the euro fail. Most British papers want the UK to exit the EU. They were always going to talk up the problems in the peripheral countries especially.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

ardmacha

IBEC predict 5%+ growth and unemployment to fall below 9%.

Rightwing

Bruton talking about 'PS pay can be restored in full over time'

The man should be locked up. It's cutting pay is what they should be doing.

glacial_pace71

Rightwing wrote: »

Bruton talking about 'PS pay can be restored in full over time'

The man should be locked up. It's cutting pay is what they should be doing.

The financial emergency powers legislation (FEMPI), like most emergency powers measures, has a finite lifespan. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform needs to submit a case for the renewal of the legislation each year to the Oireachtas. The 30 June date is notionally the one to watch but there'll be an attempt to negotiate a timeframe for reversal of cuts over the period of 2+ years.

This is a good economic news thread, but the issue of the continuation of the PS pay cuts, issues of institutional reform etc, would probably be best suited to a thread of its own. The Govt can lose a legal challenge, brazen it out with a new set of emergency powers legislation and so ride that anti-PS populist wave, or they could string out negotiations on the timescale for repealing the emergency powers legislation. The latter option appears to be the unwritten strategy but expect plenty of rhetoric over the coming 2 months.

ardmacha

Rightwing wrote: »

Bruton talking about 'PS pay can be restored in full over time'

The man should be locked up. It's cutting pay is what they should be doing.

This is Ahernist politics, arguments based on your own preferences and prejudices which ignore any economics or data. It still gets a like though despite the damage this approach has done to the country.

Kermit.de.frog

The data is very strong generally. The economy is certainly recovering at quite a pace now.


It's sad then that parties that would wreck the relatively steady competent progress stand to gain at the next election.

ardmacha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The data is very strong generally. The economy is certainly recovering at quite a pace now.


It's sad then that parties that would wreck the relatively steady competent progress stand to gain at the next election.

They wouldn't do that if people would not vote for stunts.

KingBrian2

ardmacha wrote: »

They wouldn't do that if people would not vote for stunts.

As I have been repeatedly told people will never vote for pay cuts.

Godge

http://www.independent.ie/business/world/imf-predicts-even-stronger-growth-for-ireland-than-it-forecast-just-last-month-31141845.html


Even the predictions are going up!!!


"The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is predicting stronger growth for Ireland this year and next year than it forecast just last month"

Rightwing

The worry is, and whilst there unquestionably is growth and strong growth at that, the economy mirrors the stock market and old stock market adage is applicable, 'taking the stairs up, and the elevator down'. For this reason, Governments should always be prudent and closely control spending in times of growth.

ardmacha

Rightwing wrote: »

The worry is, and whilst there unquestionably is growth and strong growth at that, the economy mirrors the stock market and old stock market adage is applicable, 'taking the stairs up, and the elevator down'. For this reason, Governments should always be prudent and closely control spending in times of growth.

Th government needs to understand the value for money for their expenditure and this isn't achieved by the crude measures typically used in the past.

serfboard

Rightwing wrote: »

For this reason, Governments should always be prudent and closely control spending in times of growth.

That's (apparently) called by economists a "counter-cyclical" policy. In other words the total opposite to Charlie McCreevy's "when I have it I'll spend it" (stupid) statement.

However, a counter-cyclical policy tends not to go down well with electorates (and not just here).

KingBrian2

serfboard wrote: »

That's (apparently) called by economists a "counter-cyclical" policy. In other words the total opposite to Charlie McCreevy's "when I have it I'll spend it" (stupid) statement.

However, a counter-cyclical policy tends not to go down well with electorates (and not just here).

The only think that will effect Ireland's growth prospects is the upcoming elections in the UK. If people think Ireland has a austerity imposed gvt than wait for the next lot of Tories and Sceptics who despise stimulus and want to dismantle social safety nets. The next British parliament will demand ever more reductions in EU subsidies which is likely to impact all EU countries both in and out of the €.

A simple Conservative majority which the British electorate could very well end up voting for could wipe out all the gains of the SNP, Liberals, Greens & Labour. This is why I am weary of the anti austerity groups here. They are in complete denial that debt has to be reduced and we are greatful not to have a gvt that wants cut to the bone on essential services like in London.

It is true Britain has a service and resource rich population from which to tax away but as we can see the sensible voices are being drowned out by the reactionary calls of removing the UK entirely from Europe have the island float away into the North Atlantic.

Idbatterim

posted by ardmacha:

This is Ahernist politics, arguments based on your own preferences and prejudices which ignore any economics or data. It still gets a like though despite the damage this approach has done to the country.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/letters-use-recovery-cash-to-fund-charities-not-for-public-sector-pay-31144048.html

Letters: Use recovery cash to fund charities, not for public sector pay

As a member of the forced diaspora, it depresses me to read that Jobs Minister Richard Bruton states that restoration of public sector pay is possible in the future, if we have full employment.

The entire public sector is paid for by the taxes produced from the private sector, be it large multinationals, family-owned and one-person businesses or the agricultural sector.


If the Government does have more money, shouldn't it be focusing on building up the resources that were taken from those who help the most vulnerable in society?


Any extra money should go to increase the grants to the many small charities and local organisations which have battled so hard to help communities survive the onslaught of austerity, while funds were diverted to protect the bankers and to top up public sector pensions.


At the first sign of a possible recovery and more funds, the immediate default political reaction is to claim that money in order to pump up the public service again.


I know staff in the public sector had limits on their pay increases and that existing staff let their younger new colleagues take the actual pain of reduced salaries, as well as pension levies, but let's not forget that public sector workers fought tooth and nail to keep their automatic increments.


They have jobs for life and there is still zero accountability for poor performance and little transparency in decision-making.


When is the last time any Irish public sector decision-maker appeared in public to justify their use of taxpayer funds, as happens in properly funded countries?


Despite the fact that we lost our economic sovereignty in the crash, in no small part because of the failures of the public sector, and the complicity in this and the subsequent austerity by the well-fed political establishment of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, and their EU friends, it seems from Mr Bruton's comments that he has learned nothing.


Ireland rolls on regardless to face the next catastrophe.


Desmond FitzGerald


Canary Wharf, London

I agree with a lot of what Desmond says, however neither Desmond or I have an election to win and power to maintain no matter the cost...

ardmacha

Idbatterim wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/letters-use-recovery-cash-to-fund-charities-not-for-public-sector-pay-31144048.html

This is simplistic bollix, about par for the course.

The entire public sector is paid for by the taxes produced from the private sector, be it large multinationals, family-owned and one-person businesses or the agricultural sector.

Oh right, so the Mater hospital or Trinity College have no income other than that from the government?

I know staff in the public sector had limits on their pay increases

How about a 15% pay cut, that's a pretty significant limit on your increase.

and that existing staff let their younger new colleagues take the actual pain of reduced salaries

see above

here is still zero accountability for poor performance and little transparency in decision-making.

Why not propose this? The zero transparency in decision-making is what the politicians, voted for by the citizens, want.

Despite the fact that we lost our economic sovereignty in the crash, in no small part because of the failures of the public sector,

The public sector had feck all to do with the crash. The politicians, elected by the citizens, set the policies which lead to the crash.

it seems from Mr Bruton's comments that he has learned nothing.

Now, you might be on to something here. But as long as he is elected by people with this level of analysis, I'd say Mr Bruton will carry on.

Kermit.de.frog

ardmacha wrote: »

The public sector had feck all to do with the crash

Not true. Their pay packets had a deep almost fatal impact on the competitiveness of this country.

That is an absolute fact and the rate of job creation in the 2000's outside construction shows the huge damage that was done with "benchmarking". Their productivity was not linked to wage increases.

jank

ardmacha wrote: »

The public sector had feck all to do with the crash.


.

Incompetent Dept of Finance?
Incompetent regulators in the Central Bank?

None of which are part of the public sector I suppose?

Never-mind the pay and pension bill that still hangs over us from the history of bench-marking.

creedp

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Not true. Their pay packets had a deep almost fatal impact on the competitiveness of this country.

That is an absolute fact and the rate of job creation in the 2000's outside construction shows the huge damage that was done with "benchmarking". Their productivity was not linked to wage increases.

As a matter of interest the average wage increase implemented via Benchamrking I in 2002 was 9% while for Benchmarking II in 2008 only 15 of 109 grades examined received an increase. Put this in the context of the pay reductions experienced by PS since 2008 - between 15% and 20%. One has to wonder how long peope will continue to bang the benchmarking drum. Time to move on .. the world around you has.

Also have a look at this article .. seems altogether reasonable to me but unfortunately its doesn't support the 50%+ premium narrative so will be lost in the simplified one dimedsional media hysteria on this issue. Continue on ...

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/07/14/public-sector-pay-differentials-regressions-can-actually-be-useful/

ardmacha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Not true. Their pay packets had a deep almost fatal impact on the competitiveness of this country.

On the contrary, some competitiveness as does exist and the jobs now being created are substantially reliant on the efforts of universities and the like in providing an educated workforce.

jank wrote: »

Incompetent Dept of Finance?
Incompetent regulators in the Central Bank?

The government wanted light touch regulation and these people provided the government policy. Do you think they should opposed the elected government?

The notable thing about this crisis is that people seemed to have learned nothing, they are content to rant about stereotypes without any real interest in what really happened.

Rightwing

ardmacha wrote: »

On the contrary, some competitiveness as does exist and the jobs now being created are substantially reliant on the efforts of universities and the like in providing an educated workforce.



The government wanted light touch regulation and these people provided the government policy. Do you think they should opposed the elected government?

The notable thing about this crisis is that people seemed to have learned nothing, they are content to rant about stereotypes without any real interest in what really happened.

You claimed 'The public sector had feck all to do with the crash'.

If Government wanted light touch regulation, surely you must admit there is an anamoly somewhere in your reasoning ?

creedp

Rightwing wrote: »

You claimed 'The public sector had feck all to do with the crash'.

If Government wanted light touch regulation, surely you must admit there is an anamoly somewhere in your reasoning ?

Presumably private sector employees routinely ignore their bosses directions and unilaterally decide the best policy direction the organisation should follow.

ardmacha

Rightwing wrote: »

You claimed 'The public sector had feck all to do with the crash'.

If Government wanted light touch regulation, surely you must admit there is an anamoly somewhere in your reasoning ?

The government is not the public sector, it is appointed by you, the citizen.

Villa05

ardmacha wrote:

The government wanted light touch regulation and these people provided the government policy. Do you think they should opposed the elected government?

So there will be no issue with junior cert program changes then? Or are you arguing a different point?