Connacht Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Part II

connachta

connachta wrote: »

So I've been silent for a while after another robbery (clear obstruction) in Gloucester, but time to move on, the Cherry and whites have been punished at home by Bordeaux, and our young lads probably need another year to be ready for the big euro tournament

To qualify we have 3 teams
IMO

1st XV

1) Buck
2) McCartney
3) AhYou
4) Roux
5) Muldowney
6) Masterson
7) Heenan
8 ) McKeon
9) Marmion
10) Carty
11) Healy
12) Aki
13) Henshaw
14) Poolman
15) Leader

2nd XV

1) Loughney
2) JHW
3) White
4) Marshall
5) Dillane
6) Muldoon
7) Fox
8 ) Naoupu
9) Cooney
10) Ronaldson
11) O'Leary
12) McSharry
13) Pewhairangi
14) Finn
15) TOH

Eagles

1) Bealham
2) Heffernan
3) JP Conney
4) Browne
5) Romaine
6) McVeigh
7) Maloney
8 ) J Connolly
9) Blade/Porter
10) C McKeon
11) Niyi
12) Robb
13) Parata
14) Gaffney
15) Carr

Back-ups, in case of injury crisis

Jacob Walshe Loose-Head Prop
Conor Kyne Loose Head Prop
Shane Delahunt Hooker
Jack Dinneen Hooker
Jamie Dever Tight-Head Prop
Saba Meunargia Tight-Head Prop
Conan O’Donnell Tight Head Prop
Danny Qualter Lock
Sean O’Brien Back Row/Lock
Marc Kelly Back Row
Conor Lowndes Scrum Half
Cormac Brennan Back Three



45 players able to play at least few minutes in Pro 12, + young prospects
Not so bad;);):)

Just watched Emerging Ireland against Uruguay, Masterson play 6 most of the time, and he is, as you see, my 1st choice ahead of Muldoon. I know it's a sacrilege, but he's a good tackler, good lineout catcher, very commited young talent.

For the rest, I guess my picks for the 3 teams are more consensual, excecpt Browne Carr and Qualter, who didn't convince me, I'd put Dillane, O'Leary and Romaine ahead of them

ouncer

As I understand it winner of challenge cup this coming year wins automatic qualification to champions cup so its well worth a cut at

connachta

ouncer wrote: »

As I understand it winner of challenge cup this coming year wins automatic qualification to champions cup so its well worth a cut at

Yeah that's what I implied earlier..
Ouncer, no contestation about my 3 teams?? Terribly disappointing, or miraculous:D

b.gud

ouncer wrote: »

As I understand it winner of challenge cup this coming year wins automatic qualification to champions cup so its well worth a cut at

Possibly even more important than qualifying for the Champions cup would be the possibility of actually winning some silverwear

ouncer

phog wrote: »

Leinster v Munster in the Aviva last season, first scrum (I think) it goes down, ref blows and looks like he's going for a reset. He gets the call from his AR and penalises Munster.

Officials can and will get stuff wrong, taking powers from ARs will not prevent human error or make poor officials any better.

My point is that there should be more transparency. If the AR is calling an infringement then they should have a flag out to show this. It then becomes clearer to the fans as to who is calling what, if the referee is overruling the AR, and if the AR is responsible for poor or good calls or indeed no call at all. While I appreciate fans are biased I think we all at one time or another shouted at an AR for what is a blatant infringement that is not called. So my point is I would like to see what they are calling rather than this closed comms idea between referee and AR. Is it the case that they have a right go at each other at the end of the game as decisions were overruled for no justifiable reason.

irishbucsfan

ouncer wrote: »

My point is that there should be more transparency. If the AR is calling an infringement then they should have a flag out to show this. It then becomes clearer to the fans as to who is calling what, if the referee is overruling the AR, and if the AR is responsible for poor or good calls or indeed no call at all. While I appreciate fans are biased I think we all at one time or another shouted at an AR for what is a blatant infringement that is not called. So my point is I would like to see what they are calling rather than this closed comms idea between referee and AR. Is it the case that they have a right go at each other at the end of the game as decisions were overruled for no justifiable reason.

Why? So the fans can scapegoat someone else incorrectly? Why does it matter who makes the call outside of assigning blame?

Robbo

Pre-season optimism and all that but based on not having studied the fixture list whatsoever, I think that we should be looking at capitalising on Leinster's depletion due to the WC/6N. Being minus two outhalves, trying to get Nacewa back up to speed and the Kane Douglas exit will be serious hurdles for Cullen to overcome notwithstanding the loss of other players to the international squad.

Usually I'd be predicting at this time of the summer that we can pip Munster-in-decline but I'm feeling a little more saucy this year.

ouncer

connachta wrote: »

Yeah that's what I implied earlier..
Ouncer, no contestation about my 3 teams?? Terribly disappointing, or miraculous:D

Think team will pick itself based on player availability. Year in, year out we have lost crucial players which has impacted heavily. I want to see Heenan, muldowney, aki, buckley, mcsharry, healy, ronaldson have an injury free season. We will lose Robbie for a lot of the year so our proven centres are crucial. In most other positions we can replace like for like

irishbucsfan

Robbo wrote: »

Pre-season optimism and all that but based on not having studied the fixture list whatsoever, I think that we should be looking at capitalising on Leinster's depletion due to the WC/6N. Being minus two outhalves, trying to get Nacewa back up to speed and the Kane Douglas exit will be serious hurdles for Cullen to overcome notwithstanding the loss of other players to the international squad.

Usually I'd be predicting at this time of the summer that we can pip Munster-in-decline but I'm feeling a little more saucy this year.

But Leinster and Connacht don't play until January?

ouncer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Why? So the fans can scapegoat someone else incorrectly? Why does it matter who makes the call outside of assigning blame?

Its not a matter of scapegoating. Its a matter of clear transparent refereeing of a match.

The Lost Sheep

ouncer wrote: »

I get that officiating at matches is a thankless job no matter what sport. I get that you have the fans who simply jump on any possible situation. But there is the other side of the equation. Folks see games lost based on poor decisions by officials. And here (I think) is the crucial point. The winning and losing of a rugby game can be very dependent on the official. And note I say official singular. The linesman is simply a line judge in the pro12 league. The ballboy can do that job.

As others have mentioned in the pro12 the guys running the line are assistant referees. The main 3 officials are always communicating either through their mics or at appropriate times during game like lineouts when referee is at front of line out and will ask if AR has anything to report/for ref to keep an eye on etc

ouncer wrote: »

Your right and your wrong shelflife. Yes I have little time for the 'assistant referee'. This is not only at a pro12 level, it is also on an international level. Take the guy who crosses for a try. Nine times out of 10 the ref goes for a TV review. Likewise the assistant will never call anything close to the line. The assistant never calls a forward pass, the assistant never calls an obscure knock-on, the assistant never calls a collapsed scrum in their plain view where the referee is unsighted. Just take the latter instance. I have never once watched a rugby game where the assistant referee has called a collapsed scrum. If the referee cannot witness the infringement a reset is called for even though it is so blatant for folks who have a clear view (including the assistent referee).

So you would have me believe that the assistant referee has a function. Let me the suggest that if this is true the assistant referee flags an infringement rather than passing it over a comms link to the referee. It then can be clearly seen the importance (or lack of as the case may be)of the assistant referee. As currently stands there is little obvious to say the assistant referee is assisting the referee. So if they start flagging issues at least you can see their purpose.

And I apologize for the ballboy reference but while it is not clear and obvious the value of the position it is hard to credit the position.

The referee will go upstairs to be 100% sure. That isn't a slight on the AR just the ref using the best technology available to them.
Assistant regularly call forward passes, obscure knock-ons, collapsed scrums in their plain view where the referee is unsighted.
You said you have never once watched a rugby game where the assistant referee has called a collapsed scrum. Well how do you know the assistant has never called one?
The comms system works much better than simply flagging everything. Flagging is for foul play not any old infringement....

RobbieRuns

ouncer wrote: »

As I understand it winner of challenge cup this coming year wins automatic qualification to champions cup so its well worth a cut at

So you reckon that we haven't been trying to win it then?

ouncer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

As others have mentioned in the pro12 the guys running the line are assistant referees. The main 3 officials are always communicating either through their mics or at appropriate times during game like lineouts when referee is at front of line out and will ask if AR has anything to report/for ref to keep an eye on etc
The referee will go upstairs to be 100% sure. That isn't a slight on the AR just the ref using the best technology available to them.
Assistant regularly call forward passes, obscure knock-ons, collapsed scrums in their plain view where the referee is unsighted.
You said you have never once watched a rugby game where the assistant referee has called a collapsed scrum. Well how do you know the assistant has never called one?
The comms system works much better than simply flagging everything. Flagging is for foul play not any old infringement....

My point made. Nothing more to add.

ouncer

RobbieRuns wrote: »

So you reckon that we haven't been trying to win it then?

I reckon it is worth winning this current year.. It is the only year where there is automatic qualification to the big league

Zzippy

On assistant referees, I accept that they call plenty to the referee's attention. It's quite obvious when you see the hand go to the transmit button at their side on the comms. I actually wish they would get involved more, however. I pointed out earlier that my biggest bugbear wrt refereeing in the Pro12 is the constant infringement of the offside rule by defending teams. ARs are usually positioned perfectly to look across the pitch and see this, but are not calling it. Teams defending ahead of the gainline denies attacking teams space and time, and results in a much less open game as defences have the advantage. It's killing the league in terms of attractive rugby. If they can call scrum infringements from the sideline surely they can call offside when it's so bloody obvious!

ouncer

Really zzippy, what a ludicrous viewpoint......

irishbucsfan

Zzippy wrote: »

On assistant referees, I accept that they call plenty to the referee's attention. It's quite obvious when you see the hand go to the transmit button at their side on the comms. I actually wish they would get involved more, however. I pointed out earlier that my biggest bugbear wrt refereeing in the Pro12 is the constant infringement of the offside rule by defending teams. ARs are usually positioned perfectly to look across the pitch and see this, but are not calling it. Teams defending ahead of the gainline denies attacking teams space and time, and results in a much less open game as defences have the advantage. It's killing the league in terms of attractive rugby. If they can call scrum infringements from the sideline surely they can call offside when it's so bloody obvious!

Do you really think offside is adjudicated in the Pro 12 any differently to any other league in the world? I wouldn't say so. Literally anywhere I've played or watched rugby has been the same. In defense you wait for the ref to look away and creep up...

ouncer

Question is if it is adjudicated well. Not if its adjudicated differently.

irishbucsfan

ouncer wrote: »

Question is if it is adjudicated well. Not if its adjudicated differently.

If it's not adjudicated well then it must be adjudicated differently.

ouncer

Hence the need for transparent adjudication

irishbucsfan

ouncer wrote: »

Hence the need for transparent adjudication

No, not at all. If it's being called incorrectly then it's completely irrelevant whether the fans think it's the referee or the AR. It doesn't matter who you direct your boos towards, it's not going to change anything. The only people this matters to are the officials and the people reviewing their performances.

MarinersBlues

ouncer wrote: »

Hence the need for transparent adjudication

Are suggesting a different style of refereeing for Connacht games or for the pro12 or for Rugby in general.

If it's just for Connacht games stop talking rubbish, all games should be reffed by the same rules and to the same standard.
If it's one of the other two; start a new thread and stop hijacking this one.
Either way let this thread get back on the topic of Connacht rugby please.
Thanks

.ak

Please don't back-seat mod...


However, the poster is correct - this is gone into a laws/general rugby chat, so please move it there if you want to continue.

RobbieRuns

ouncer wrote: »

I reckon it is worth winning this current year.. It is the only year where there is automatic qualification to the big league

more like last year was the only year that it was not automatic qualification to the big league.

With teams not dropping down to the Challenge cup from the Champions cup groups it is a competition that can be won, for me it will always be between the Celtic teams (Pro12) and the English teams. French teams do not treat the competition properly, the top 14 is the priority and were TV money and loyalties lie for them.

I actually think that it is the only competition that we can win and irrespective of getting a Champions cup place we should be going all out for it.

ouncer

http://www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychampionscup/qualification/index.php

To facilitate Rugby World Cup 2015 and to avoid fixture congestion, there will be no play-offs for the 2016/17 Champions Cup with the 20th place in the tournament going to the winner of the 2016 Challenge Cup.

So its a one year only deal for the winners of the challenge cup. Hence the reason for more emphasis.

irishbucsfan

Judging by the sounds Paul McNaughton was making towards the end of last season it may not end up being a one year only thing, they may end up assigning that place permanently to the Challenge Cup, which would be great.

freyners

So is buckley still with the squad. I think I saw him in a recent set of photos for a team huddle but not sure.

either way, I rate Buckley ahead of Kilcoyne and probably on par with McGrath. Doesnt have the pedigree they have at Irish level in experience but in terms of their individual performances over last season he edges it for me.

ouncer

Folks, have to admit. It does seem that my opinion sucks. So i am wavering on any further comment into Connacht's team talk. So I have decided to call it quits. Have always enjoyed being controversial. Goodnight and goodbye.

Funk It

ouncer wrote: »

Folks, have to admit. It does seem that my opinion sucks. So i am wavering on any further comment into Connacht's team talk. So I have decided to call it quits. Have always enjoyed being controversial. Goodnight and goodbye.

Ah ouncer, just sleep on it. Without pulling your leg, it wouldn't be the same here without ya.

irishbucsfan

smiley_face wrote: »

How can it be reviewed if ARs don't wave flags for decisions, do they just assume the AR spoke over the ear-piece or do they record the conversations and compare them to each decision?
Surely if ARs used their flags when making a decision then it will improve their calls as they will be obvious in front of all the spectators as to what they are doing, whether they are right or wrong.

It will all be in the referees report.

Neither the ref nor the AR need the spectators to know who is making any decision, given the reaction most spectators have to decisions and the frequency with which they are totally incorrect, there's no benefit in that.