Daily rate for a plumber?

liveandnetural

shane you have to tell us more about the 700 a day man.....thats 182.000 k before tax about 87 euro per/hour

so lets input that into a basic tax calculator
http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/
http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx

€97,269.00 p/year............€8,106.00 monthly.........€1,871.00...........50 euro per hour take home

sure its not just pub talk

heres a Hourly Rate Calculator if anyones intrested
http://www.umacs-business-solutions.com/hourly-rate-calculator.html

Calculating the Available Hours is a worth a look

Phill Ewinn

shane 007 wrote: »

The OP standing over me while I am trying to work will get a sore foot! Why would an industrial fitter do 2 or 3 times more work? Superhumans?

A day also consists of getting materials, etc.
I have to laugh at how employed people think those hours shouldn't be charged for or if they 7 hours is done, well only 7 hours are charged for!

I'd like to see that happen in an employed office worker with salary, holiday pay, sick pay, medical, etc. What would they say if they were deducted for all those non-productive hours chatting or in the phone to the other half! Or they finish 30 minutes early & left short in their wage packet?

If you leave thirty minutes early you get left short on your wage packet. Also, what.makes you believe the OP is your employer? He isn't. Quite a few people who work in offices get short term rolling contracts. No perks.

Fitters are sometimes given a window. An amount of time a system might be down. A standard time for work done etc.

In short, do you believe you are worth more than the average person. And if so why?

gifted

liveandnetural wrote: »

shane you have to tell us more about the 700 a day man.....thats 182.000 k before tax about 87 euro per/hour

so lets input that into a basic tax calculator
http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/
http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx

€97,269.00 p/year............€8,106.00 monthly.........€1,871.00...........50 euro per hour take home

sure its not just pub talk

heres a Hourly Rate Calculator if anyones intrested
http://www.umacs-business-solutions.com/hourly-rate-calculator.html

Calculating the Available Hours is a worth a look

+1...

I work in the industrial side of plumbing for the last 25 years and I have never seen anyone get €700 a day. I've been a foreman during the boom times and I have had to sign invoices for subbies and the hourly rate is nowhere near that.

Methinks that chap was pulling your leg

shane 007

gifted wrote: »

+1...

I work in the industrial side of plumbing for the last 25 years and I have never seen anyone get €700 a day. I've been a foreman during the boom times and I have had to sign invoices for subbies and the hourly rate is nowhere near that.

Methinks that chap was pulling your leg

Firstly are you employed or self employed in the industrial side if things?
Are specialising in specialist equipment?

shane 007

liveandnetural wrote: »

shane you have to tell us more about the 700 a day man.....thats 182.000 k before tax about 87 euro per/hour

so lets input that into a basic tax calculator
http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/
http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx

€97,269.00 p/year............€8,106.00 monthly.........€1,871.00...........50 euro per hour take home

sure its not just pub talk

heres a Hourly Rate Calculator if anyones intrested
http://www.umacs-business-solutions.com/hourly-rate-calculator.html

Calculating the Available Hours is a worth a look

Again a typical employed person's assumption. They look at the hourly rate & multiply that by the maximum number of hours a person can work, equating it into their employed hours.
Self employed persons work when they have work. Other time is looking for work, pricing, paperwork, etc. Once heating goes off & that can be as early as April, they might not go back on until October. That's a long time scratching so now his earnings have dramatically fallen.
Busy times can be also taken up with paperwork, looking at jobs, pricing with suppliers, meetings with accountant, health & safety courses, training, etc.

Qualitymark

This whole discussion would be less passionate if we moved towards an agreed rate for a day's work for all trades.

Dtp1979

Qualitymark wrote: »

This whole discussion would be less passionate if we moved towards an agreed rate for a day's work for all trades.

Ye, 300

shane 007

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ye, 300

I thought that was rounded upto €350! :-)

Dtp1979

shane 007 wrote: »

I thought that was rounded upto €350! :-)

Oh ye sorry forgot that. 350 it is so

markad1

I'm a sparks and I think all you plumbers are mad

Qualitymark

Serio, though; if I earned €300 a day, I'd have no problem at all paying a plumber the same. (And no, I'm not talking employed versus self-employed here - obviously there are variations like public service people having pensions worth a couple of million and increments and security of tenure.)

Guy:Incognito

MiniGolf wrote: »

On the above, and as we are talking about 10 years ago...... I bought my van new in February 2005. At that time it cost me €65 to fill it with diesel. In March 2014 (i.e. Now!) it costs me €130 :eek:
The fuel tank hasn't gotten any bigger.
This is just one of the costings listed above, many more of them have gotten higher since then.

The tank hasn't gotten any bigger but it may have got leakier because fuel costs about 50% more now than in 2005 , not 100%

http://www.theaa.ie/AA/Motoring-advice/~/media/Files/AA%20Ireland/Reports/Fuelprices%20history.ashx

Red Crow

shane 007 wrote: »

I was talking to a pal of mine today. He does nothing but non-domestic works & he charges minimum €700 + vat per day.

I am so under-valued!

That's a rip off. He's either lying or has some contract work that his clients can't get out of.

corkgsxr

markad1 wrote: »

I'm a sparks and I think all you plumbers are mad

Mm a sparks.... do we not charge enough?

gifted

shane 007 wrote: »

Firstly are you employed or self employed in the industrial side if things?
Are specialising in specialist equipment?

AHU'S, fan coil units, heating circuits on a large scale, boilers etc etc, all industrial. €700 a day is a non runner. Like I said, I've signed off on invoices including day work rates and they are nowhere near that rate. Just spoke to my director ( large national mechanical contractors currently working on a variety of sites eg Intel ) and he said no way rates like that being paid.

dwiseman

shane 007 wrote: »

You are of course entitled to your opinion but it is not that difficult to break it down.
You say €150 is what should be charged.
Ok, so let's see what that person earns per day. Diesel I would say to run a van each day costs about €25 per day on local work, a lot more for further work. €18 goes on VAT. €3 on USC. Van insurance €5. Van maintenance €10. Accountant €20. PL insurance & employers €20.
So already we are down to €49. Now have I forgotten anything. Oh yeah, medical, stationary, holiday pay, sick pay, pension & don't forgot our ginger leader's cut.
And I have probably forgotten a lot off that list.

(Thanks DGOBS, I forgot RGII & OFTEC fees.... Add another €500 per year)

Then you have to look at the job, price it, go & get materials.

I fitted a new boiler recently in Lucan. Water was cut off & customer rang me to say some of the rads stopped working. I drove from Kilkenny to Lucan only to find they have opened every valve in the hot press, including the balancing valve of the cylinder. Put it back & rads back to normal. Was I paid for it? Was I ....! But that's the service I choose to give.

So on the rock & roll, a family of four gets about €400 per week plus medical card plus state pension. That's €80 per day. Tops it up a few nixers of €150 per day!

You need a new van, a new accountant and to change insurance companies if your figures above are correct.

Dtp1979

dwiseman wrote: »

You need a new van, a new accountant and to change insurance companies if your figures above are correct.

20-25 a day on diesel is about right. Driving a van full of tools around, stopping and starting, pricing jobs, going to get fittings, etc. all adds up

dwiseman

Dtp1979 wrote: »

20-25 a day on diesel is about right. Driving a van full of tools around, stopping and starting, pricing jobs, going to get fittings, etc. all adds up

and a tenner a day for van maintenance?

Dtp1979

dwiseman wrote: »

and a tenner a day for van maintenance?

Well I've had about 2,000 with of work done on mine in the last 6 months. Maybe if ya buy a new van every year then there'd be no maintenance

Wow, who'd be a plumber.

As a trade is it under valued, obviously by some of the posts, but as a outsider I don't get this obsession with wages, domestically plumbing can be brutal this is because absolutely anybody can be a domestic plumber, the mistakes I see made on a daily basis are not mistakes a plumber or competent self taught plumber would ever make.

So while there is a discussion about what a plumber is worth you have to factor in qualified/competent against those who take the money and run. I'm going to heating systems and unvented cylinders installs more often than I should that don't work, may never work or have caused high levels of water damage.

So thinking about it I'm extremely happy there are so many chancers plumbing because i'v just realised without them I wouldn't have the villa

dwiseman

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Well I've had about 2,000 with of work done on mine in the last 6 months. Maybe if ya buy a new van every year then there'd be no maintenance

Clearly €2000 worth of maintenance to a vehicle over a 6 month period is way outside the norm. Factoring in 4 weeks holidays and 9 annual bank holidays that leaves 231 working days at €10 a day gives a total of €2310 for maintenance. If you got four full services a year due to high milage at €200 a service, 2 sets of tyres at €100 a tyre and an annual DOE at €120, that still only comes to €1720 and at that Ive overpriced the costs of everything involved. Clearly if someone has a van with such high maintenance costs that's their problem and not something that I think the customer needs to be paying for. I know a good number of plumbers who do good work, are insured, pay VAT and charge a daily rate from 180-220. If you have overheads that mean you need to charge €300 daily to cover overheads and make a wage you might need to take a look at your overheads or think about becoming an employee as opposed to being self employed.

scudo2

dwiseman wrote: »

Clearly €2000 worth of maintenance to a vehicle over a 6 month period is way outside the norm. Factoring in 4 weeks holidays and 9 annual bank holidays that leaves 231 working days at €10 a day gives a total of €2310 for maintenance. If you got four full services a year due to high milage at €200 a service, 2 sets of tyres at €100 a tyre and an annual DOE at €120, that still only comes to €1720 and at that Ive overpriced the costs of everything involved. Clearly if someone has a van with such high maintenance costs that's their problem and not something that I think the customer needs to be paying for. I know a good number of plumbers who do good work, are insured, pay VAT and charge a daily rate from 180-220. If you have overheads that mean you need to charge €300 daily to cover overheads and make a wage you might need to take a look at your overheads or think about becoming an employee as opposed to being self employed.

I've a simple system that has stood by me for the last 23 years,
1/3 for me. 1/3 for the tax man and 1/3 for overheads + rainy day's.


I could never find the extra 1/3 for the villa !

shane 007

dwiseman wrote: »

Clearly €2000 worth of maintenance to a vehicle over a 6 month period is way outside the norm. Factoring in 4 weeks holidays and 9 annual bank holidays that leaves 231 working days at €10 a day gives a total of €2310 for maintenance. If you got four full services a year due to high milage at €200 a service, 2 sets of tyres at €100 a tyre and an annual DOE at €120, that still only comes to €1720 and at that Ive overpriced the costs of everything involved. Clearly if someone has a van with such high maintenance costs that's their problem and not something that I think the customer needs to be paying for. I know a good number of plumbers who do good work, are insured, pay VAT and charge a daily rate from 180-220. If you have overheads that mean you need to charge €300 daily to cover overheads and make a wage you might need to take a look at your overheads or think about becoming an employee as opposed to being self employed.

In this game you never get 231 paid working days per year. Pricing jobs is unpaid work. Training days are unpaid. Manufacturer days are unpaid. Meetings are unpaid. Accountant anywhere from €2,000 - €3,500 per year.

dwiseman

shane 007 wrote: »

In this game you never get 231 paid working days per year. Pricing jobs is unpaid work. Training days are unpaid. Manufacturer days are unpaid. Meetings are unpaid. Accountant anywhere from €2,000 - €3,500 per year.

If you can find people who are willing to pay you €300 a day more power to you.

shane 007

dwiseman wrote: »

If you can find people who are willing to pay you €300 a day more power to you.

I never said I get €300 per day but to run a viable business, that's what I need unless I cut corners on materials & practices. I opt to earn a crap amount of money but provide an excellent service.

I have to laugh at how people can look down on professional people who go through years of training & continual re-training, but would not an eye lid at a solicitor or doctor earning €300k per year.

I run a small business, employing 2 people plus myself. Last year I earned €24,300. One of my employees earned €35,000. Mine included work I do as a part-time lecturer to supplement my earnings. I am flat out from end of August to end of December where I have to earn 70% of my income. The rest of the time I am working to pay wages & overheads.

I can indeed opt like many do to cut corners, use cheap parts & generally do the customer. For me, I would rather go on the rock & roll & take home €19,700 & get all my medical, school allowances & whatever else is up for grabs than do the customer. I opt to provide a good service. Even to fact when I am not working, I come on here like other like minded professionals & give even more time & professional experiences absolutely free of charge also. Only because IMO, we care & love what we do.
As far as my friend who charges €700 per day, I know you couldn't meet a more honest person. His work is first class and I know he is busy & yet he has no Merc or Beamer. He has a comfortable life, most likely more comfortable than mine. He has no employees & that's probably my failure.

So thank you for your kind response & good wishes.

dwiseman

I hear what you're saying, they are your circumstances and that is fair enough. Personally I still think €300 is very expensive as a daily rate for a plumber. This is based on my experience with having plumbers do work for me as I have never been quoted anywhere within €80 of that price. As I said if you can command that price more power to you.

scudo2

shane 007 wrote: »

In this game you never get 231 paid working days per year. Pricing jobs is unpaid work. Training days are unpaid. Manufacturer days are unpaid. Meetings are unpaid. Accountant anywhere from €2,000 - €3,500 per year.

And I might add to that if I may, your employees get paid 52 weeks of the year. You don't just pay them on the weeks that you made profit.
You have a responsibility when you employ somebody, not just to them but also to their family and their commitments on relying on a steady wage coming in.

Egass13

shane 007 wrote: »

I never said I get €300 per day but to run a viable business, that's what I need unless I cut corners on materials & practices. I opt to earn a crap amount of money but provide an excellent service.

I have to laugh at how people can look down on professional people who go through years of training & continual re-training, but would not an eye lid at a solicitor or doctor earning €300k per year.

I run a small business, employing 2 people plus myself. Last year I earned €24,300. One of my employees earned €35,000. Mine included work I do as a part-time lecturer to supplement my earnings. I am flat out from end of August to end of December where I have to earn 70% of my income. The rest of the time I am working to pay wages & overheads.

I can indeed opt like many do to cut corners, use cheap parts & generally do the customer. For me, I would rather go on the rock & roll & take home €19,700 & get all my medical, school allowances & whatever else is up for grabs than do the customer. I opt to provide a good service. Even to fact when I am not working, I come on here like other like minded professionals & give even more time & professional experiences absolutely free of charge also. Only because IMO, we care & love what we do.
As far as my friend who charges €700 per day, I know you couldn't meet a more honest person. His work is first class and I know he is busy & yet he has no Merc or Beamer. He has a comfortable life, most likely more comfortable than mine. He has no employees & that's probably my failure.

So thank you for your kind response & good wishes.

35k .. Any openings ?

jimf

shane 007 wrote: »

I never said I get €300 per day but to run a viable business, that's what I need unless I cut corners on materials & practices. I opt to earn a crap amount of money but provide an excellent service.

I have to laugh at how people can look down on professional people who go through years of training & continual re-training, but would not an eye lid at a solicitor or doctor earning €300k per year.

I run a small business, employing 2 people plus myself. Last year I earned €24,300. One of my employees earned €35,000. Mine included work I do as a part-time lecturer to supplement my earnings. I am flat out from end of August to end of December where I have to earn 70% of my income. The rest of the time I am working to pay wages & overheads.

I can indeed opt like many do to cut corners, use cheap parts & generally do the customer. For me, I would rather go on the rock & roll & take home €19,700 & get all my medical, school allowances & whatever else is up for grabs than do the customer. I opt to provide a good service. Even to fact when I am not working, I come on here like other like minded professionals & give even more time & professional experiences absolutely free of charge also. Only because IMO, we care & love what we do.
As far as my friend who charges €700 per day, I know you couldn't meet a more honest person. His work is first class and I know he is busy & yet he has no Merc or Beamer. He has a comfortable life, most likely more comfortable than mine. He has no employees & that's probably my failure.

So thank you for your kind response & good wishes.

have fun trying to get the rock & roll from being self employed
you don't even have that safety net when things are not working to plan

jimf

Egass13 wrote: »

35k .. Any openings ?

5mins too late im off to Kilkenny Monday yippee :P:P