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Football ranking table

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  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    The same "championship" weighting is applied to both the Sam Maguire and Tailteann cup competitions. Hard to justify doing it differently, especially at this early stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Not sure which years you are referring to here? Or competition?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I'm only referring to the changes in the last week, Round 4 of the league. This is basically the same point made as Blackjack in post #1192.

    I think the whole thing is great, this is only a point of detail.



  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    You might have been away for a while (and you might want to sit down before finishing this sentence) but Dublin are no longer in Div 1 😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage




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  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    I was hoping that was the case 😎


    Kerry 106.5 vs Armagh 98.8, Kerry get 3 extra rating points for home advantage, so it becomes Kerry 109.5 vs Armagh 98.8 = rating difference of 11.1

    Mayo 102.3 vs Tyrone 91.2, Mayo get 3 extra rating points for home advantage, so it becomes Mayo 105.3 vs Tyrone 91.2 = rating difference of 14.1

    Rating exchange (if favourite wins) =

     1-(Rating_difference/15)*bonus_score-weight*competition_weight


    Bonus score weight is 1.5 for a victory of 5 points or more

    Competition weight is 1.5 for the league, 3 for the championship


    For Kerry vs Armagh = 1-(11.1/15) = 0.26*1*1.5 = 0.39 rating points exchanged

    For Mayo vs Tyrone = 1-(14.1/15) = 0.06*1.5*1.5 = 0.135 rating points exchanged


    If the favorite loses, the formula becomes:

    1+(Rating_difference/15)*bonus_score-weight*competition_weight

    Post edited by laoisman11 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Excuse the quick and dirty graph below, but some interesting trends here, especially over the last 10 years.

    The first 10 years, the system is getting set up and teams were finding their level (they all started with 80 rating points).

    From 1940-2010, the distribution of the rating points among teams was pretty constant, apart from a narrowing in the early 70s

    Between 2010-2015, the gap between the top and bottom teams widened in an almost linear fashion before more or less plateauing in the last 5 years - a potential reason for this is that I changed the league weighting from 1 to 1.5 in 2009

    (Not sure at what point you took your data from in 2009 @crusd, as there is a difference in our standard deviations, but I took the end of year data)





  • Registered Users Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    "Bonus score weight is 1.5 for a victory of 5 points or more"

    I suppose that my point is that you could have a formula 0.3*score difference or some such.

    This would give

    For Kerry vs Armagh = 1-(11.1/15) = 0.26*1*0.3 = 0.08 rating points exchanged (rounded)

    For Mayo vs Tyrone = 1-(14.1/15) = 0.06*1.5*3 = 0.27 rating points exchanged

    I suppose the point of this is that a one point win at home is a modest enough achievement compared to a 10 point win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭crusd


    I just took the ratings from the first table on the thread and compared to the ratings from the last.



  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    I hear what you are saying - yes, it is possible that fine-tuning the bonus score weight might give more precise values for exchange of rating points. We are where we are today though, no ranking system is perfect (nor ever will be).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Prediction model output below, things are heating up now with the finishing line coming into sight:




  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Not too many shocks in the round 5 games, apart from wins for Tyrone, Louth (although a lot of people in the know saw that coming) and Meath not winning. Tyrone (+2.8 points) and Cork (+2.4 points) were the big winners.




  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Prediction model output for this weekend's games........as we come towards the end of the league, some teams will have less to play for (no opportunity for promotion, no risk of relegation), so prediction of some games becomes a lottery.




  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Updated ranking table after NFL round 6.

    • Antrim were the big winners with a relegation-saving victory over Cavan (who were more or less promoted anyway, but that's not taking away from a fine victory) - Antrim gained 3 rating points for this exploit
    • Tyrone took 2.58 rating points from Monaghan and look to join the big boys at the top table and relative safety in Division 1
    • Fermanagh were the only other team to take more than 2 rating points in their hunt for promotion gathers pace




  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Prediction output for this weekend's games below. Be very wary where teams have nothing to play for (Mayo, Derry, Clare, Limerick, Cavan, Tipp & Longford) or where they have little to play for - i.e. they are already safe from relegation and no chance of promotion (3, 2 and 4 teams in Divs 2, 3 and 4, respectively).




  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Ranking table update following the final round of league games:

    • Monaghan were the big big winners, not only in escaping relegation, but also in gaining 4.5 rating points following a bonus-point, away win over high-flyers Mayo
    • Down had a surprisingly big win over Offaly, gaining them 2.65 rating points, but events elsewhere meant that they were not to be promoted
    • And that event was Fermanagh’s win over an already promoted Cavan, 2.52 rating points exchanged in that game, which might be swapped again after the final next weekend
    • Final word to Galway, whose victory over Kerry, combined with Mayo’s loss to Monaghan, means that Galway occupy no. 1 spot for the first time since July 2003!




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Of course it all smooths out over time, but Mayo not being motivated to win the last round leads to Galway's elevation on the table and Armagh's relegation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Predicition model output for the league finals below, they are all going to be tight games if this is to be believed. Difficult to believe that championship is only around the corner!




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    And Roscommon who finished 3rd in Div 1 drop out of the top 8 because Monaghan beat that non motivated Mayo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Final ranking table after the 2022 NFL:

    • Kerry regain number one spot, while Mayo pip Galway for 3rd spot
    • Dublin (they haven't gone away) rise to 2nd place, where they have not been since Sept 2021
    • Sligo are up to their highest ranking since January 2019 after a good win in the Div 4 final




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  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    How has your team fared during the league? Who were the movers and shakers? And what imact (if any) will it have on the championship......

    Big winners

    • Louth gained 8 rating points and moved up 5 ranking places after a more-than-solid season in Division 2
    • Tyrone were not far behind, they gained 7.5 rating points and climbed 4 ranking places
    • Every 2nd year, Roscommon seem to have a good league - this year, they gained 5.5 rating points and hopped 3 ranking places
    • Honorable mentions to Fermanagh and Sligo who increased their worth by 5.2 and 5 rating points, respectively

    Big losers

    • The All-Ireland champions normally suffer big if they have a loss in the league, and Kerry accumulated 4 of them, losing 10.3 rating points in the process but retaining no.1 place
    • Westmeath dropped 6.1 rating points and 4 ranking places after a poor Division 3 campaign (despite having the best scoring difference across all teams)
    • Clare fell 3 ranking places and lost 5.1 rating points following a league campaign which culminated in relagation from Division 2 after 7 years
    • Honoroble mentions to Armagh and Donegal, who lost 4.7 and 4 rating points, respectively




  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    First round of games in this year's SFC, with hardly a breather since the league has finished.

    I haven't done the in-depth previews as there are potentially too many games at this early stage to make it interesting, but if people want, I can do them from next weekend on.

    Prediction model output:




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭Cavan_King


    Any updated table after the games at the weekend?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,643 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Westmeath had the best scoring difference because they beat Antrim by 31 points. In the next round Antrim beat Cavan. Antrim were only the third worst in Division 3 on scoring difference. Worst overall was Limerick -68, with a (dis)honourable mention for Donegal -41.



  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Donegal had a -41 score difference, yet they are -4 while Armagh with score difference -3 and who won one game more than Donegal are -4.7.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,643 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Scoring difference doesn't come into it, just wins and losses. So that would explain Donegal and Armagh. I only remarked on it because Laoisman had a note in his League summary. Another mighty outlier was Cork 6-18, Limerick 0-12. But again irrelevant to the table.

    • Westmeath dropped 6.1 rating points and 4 ranking places after a poor Division 3 campaign (despite having the best scoring difference across all teams)




  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    What an exciting opening round to the 2023 SFC! I certainly wasn't expecting that many shocks (and Waterford and Longford were not far off creating other shocks, if the reports I read are to be believed).

    • Roscommon were the big winners, exchaning 5.1 rating points (and 4 ranking places) with Mayo
    • Clare took 3.5 rating points from Cork, and now lead them in the rankings
    • There were gains, albeit of smaller magnitude, for Laois, Offaly, New York, Wicklow and Tipperary
    • No rating points were exchanged in the Armagh-Antrim nor Sligo-London games





  • Registered Users Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    Last time Roscommon was in the top 5 in these rankings?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    I was thinking that someone was going to ask that........

    Would you believe that it was in 2019, just after they beat the reigning Division 1 league champions Mayo, in Castlebar!



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