Social Manners - what are people's opinions?

Pinch Flat

I like to think of myself as being pretty mannerly and polite, but if something is not right, I will generally assert myself (politely). So, for example, a neighbour that is parking inconsiderately (blocking drives / paths), people talking in the cinema, people putting their bags on empty seats on trains / buses when they're packed (I will move them without question) or the odd parent that thinks it's ok to show up to our GAA club and litter the sidelines with paper coffee cups while they watch their little ones play - I will tackle these issue politely rather than moan about them. I lived in Germany for a while, and they're much quicker to tell you what's right or wrong - people generally tow the line there and if you're corrected it's no big deal.

One of my pet hates is people in coffee shops who, upon arriving, decide they can 'book' a table in a packed coffee shop while the rest of us are awaiting to be served. These are coffee shops without table service. So yesterday morning, I decide to take sometime out in town and grab a coffee and bun. I'm at the top of the queue in a packed coffee shop (there's one seat left), when a woman comes in, puts her belonging's on the last available seat to 'book it' and then proceeds to queue up to be served. When I turn around, both hands full with a coffee and plate in one hand, there's nowhere for me to sit. So I politely tell the lady to move her stuff so I can sit down - she's surprised and says she didn't realise I could do that and sort of questions me. Well, I said where am I going to sit? She moved her stuff in a huff and, when a seat became available, I could feel her seething contempt towards me. So, harsh or not?

Please - no personal abuse. Just a general debate - Do people generally put up with sh!te or assert themselves?

GreeBo

I think moving someones stuff without asking/telling is rude tbh

The rest of it Im ok with.
I had to tell an older gentleman in the gym this morning that it wasnt appropriate for him to clean between his toes on the bench that everyone else uses in the changing room...he seemed quite put out.

Pinch Flat

GreeBo wrote: »

I think moving someones stuff without asking/telling is rude tbh

The rest of it Im ok with.
I had to tell an older gentleman in the gym this morning that it wasnt appropriate for him to clean between his toes on the bench that everyone else uses in the changing room...he seemed quite put out.

Well, fair enough - I suppose I wouldn't move people's stuff. Love the huffing and puffing when you ask some one to move stuff from a seat on packed train on a Friday evening - no, put it in the proper storage area you tw@t and then no-one will have to ask you to move it.

jester77

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I like to think of myself as being pretty mannerly and polite, but if something is not right, I will generally assert myself (politely). So, for example, a neighbour that is parking inconsiderately (blocking drives / paths), people talking in the cinema, people putting their bags on empty seats on trains / buses when they're packed (I will move them without question) or the odd parent that thinks it's ok to show up to our GAA club and litter the sidelines with paper coffee cups while they watch their little ones play - I will tackle these issue politely rather than moan about them. I lived in Germany for a while, and they're much quicker to tell you what's right or wrong - people generally tow the line there and if you're corrected it's no big deal.

One of my pet hates is people in coffee shops who, upon arriving, decide they can 'book' a table in a packed coffee shop while the rest of us are awaiting to be served. These are coffee shops without table service. So yesterday morning, I decide to take sometime out in town and grab a coffee and bun. I'm at the top of the queue in a packed coffee shop (there's one seat left), when a woman comes in, puts her belonging's on the last available seat to 'book it' and then proceeds to queue up to be served. When I turn around, both hands full with a coffee and plate in one hand, there's nowhere for me to sit. So I politely tell the lady to move her stuff so I can sit down - she's surprised and says she didn't realise I could do that and sort of questions me. Well, I said where am I going to sit? She moved her stuff in a huff and, when a seat became available, I could feel her seething contempt towards me. So, harsh or not?

Please - no personal abuse. Just a general debate - Do people generally put up with sh!te or assert themselves?

Spot on telling her to move her stuff. I really hate when people do that. I live in Germany and people do that here. There is a great burger bar downstairs in my office building and during lunch you would queue about 15 mins. There are people that come in as a group and block some seats while one person orders for them. It is much harder to move a group, but what is annoying is that I would be finished and gone by the time they get their food. They just mess up the flow.

jester77

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Well, fair enough - I suppose I wouldn't move people's stuff. Love the huffing and puffing when you ask some one to move stuff from a seat on packed train on a Friday evening - no, put it in the proepr storage you tw@t and then no-one will have to ask you to move it.

The best approach I've seen to this was by a ticket conductor on a train here. Someone had their bags on the seat next to them when the train was full. He asked her for a second ticket and she looked confused. He told her she was using 2 seats and wanted to see a second ticket. She was quick to move her stuff after that!

Pinch Flat

jester77 wrote: »

I live in Germany and people do that here. .

But my experience in Germany (Karlsruhe) is that people when corrected will generally just get on with it - Irish people seem to personalise things.

So, when I'm paying 20 odd quid for myself and Mrs. Pinch Flat to go to the cinema and listen to a full scale conversation behind me, and point out that the pub is perhaps a more appropriate environment for conversations to the offender, you're often met with 'what's your problem'.

My stock reply to this is 'my problem is I'm paying a small fortune between cinema entry, baby sitting and perhaps a taxi home if we decide to have a few beers, so why don't you shut up'.

jester77

Pinch Flat wrote: »

But my experience in Germany (Karlsruhe) is that people when corrected will generally just get on with it - Irish people seem to personalise things.

So, when I'm paying 20 odd quid for myself and Mrs. Pinch Flat to go to the cinema and listen to a full scale conversation behind me, and point out that the pub is perhaps a more appropriate environment for conversations to the offender, you're often me with 'what's your problem'.

My stock reply to this is 'my problem is I'm paying a small fortune between cinema entry, baby sitting and perhaps a taxi home if we decide to have a few beers, so why don't you shut up'.

That is just bad manners, no one talks in the cinema here or takes out their phones.

But I've often had to deal with people blocking seats in cafe/restaurants while someone queues for them. Some take it very personally and stand their ground and refuse to move. The only thing you can do is take the spare seat and sit beside them.

FunLover18

I agree with the OP and wish I was more like that. I tend to be a moaner. Although that said if there's a group and some take a seat while others order I have no problem with that. I've done it so I'm not going to get annoyed when others do it.

Can I ask what exactly is so inappropriate about this. Presumably there are showers so he should have done it in there but it's not like he was knocking one out.

GreeBo wrote: »

I had to tell an older gentleman in the gym this morning that it wasnt appropriate for him to clean between his toes on the bench that everyone else uses in the changing room...he seemed quite put out.

OldNotWIse

Agree with most of your post, and I think Irish people are lacking somewhat in this regard. A lot of us tend to be on the passive aggressive side, and will expect dirty looks (or venting on boards/metroherald) to solve the problem. I would move my bag if a bus was filling up, but if I didnt see that it was filling, I'd expect you to just say, "excuse me" and point to the bag. I'd be p1ssed with someone for touching my personal belongings without asking, and would probably tell you as much. A bag on a seat justifies a request for it to be moved, it does not justify a stranger pawing at it imo.

GreeBo

FunLover18 wrote: »

I agree with the OP and wish I was more like that. I tend to be a moaner. Although that said if there's a group and some take a seat while others order I have no problem with that. I've done it so I'm not going to get annoyed when others do it.

Can I ask what exactly is so inappropriate about this. Presumably there are showers so he should have done it in there but it's not like he was knocking one out.

He was cleaning the gunk from between his toes onto the same bench that everyone else was going to be using...thats inappropriate to me.
Why would I want to sit or put my things on his foot gunk?

sopretty

I would find your approach to be quite rude. I don't like being dictated to by a self appointed 'manners' advocate. I'd be inclined to respond to you with 'you're not the boss of me!'

Ihatecuddles

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

Pinch Flat

sopretty wrote: »

I would find your approach to be quite rude. I don't like being dictated to by a self appointed 'manners' advocate. I'd be inclined to respond to you with 'you're not the boss of me!'

Well, it's a difference between being rude and assertive. Admittedly touching other people's stuff may be rude, but I see no other issue with the other situations I pointed out.

Aidric

sopretty wrote: »

I would find your approach to be quite rude. I don't like being dictated to by a self appointed 'manners' advocate. I'd be inclined to respond to you with 'you're not the boss of me!'

You can be firm without being rude.

OldNotWIse

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

It's a weird one isnt it? Got me thinking. Its acceptable for one person to sit at the table and the other to buy food (imo). So, I dont know about the woman keeping the seat. Maybe she was just being smarter than the rest It's a little rude but if I were her and someone confronted me like that there is no way I would move.

Ihatecuddles

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's a weird one isnt it? Got me thinking. Its acceptable for one person to sit at the table and the other to buy food (imo). So, I dont know about the woman keeping the seat. Maybe she was just being smarter than the rest It's a little rude but if I were her and someone confronted me like that there is no way I would move.

I wouldn't move either, but I wouldn't have done it to begin with!

FunLover18

GreeBo wrote: »

He was cleaning the gunk from between his toes onto the same bench that everyone else was going to be using...thats inappropriate to me.
Why would I want to sit or put my things on his foot gunk?

Ah right I hadn't realised there was gunk involved

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

I wouldn't see this as rude, as I'd do it myself. Rudeness is fairly subjective, although there are certainly things everyone can agree on

SpaceCowb0y

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

If i went into a coffee shop with one other person and seen a table for two free the logical thing to do would be to take the table while one person queues?? Anyone who doesn't do this is a fool! Why would you let the table go when as you enter it is currently vacant??

If you're on your own however and have left your stuff on a seat i would think that is a bit cheeky!

irish_goat

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

If there is a queue of people waiting for coffee ahead of you and very few seats, then yes.

Ihatecuddles

I kind of like our Irish approach, be annoyed but moan about it later. I'd hate to do something I'd consider ok, and have someone correct me in public.

Who says you're right? Why can't the lady 'book' a seat? You might consider it rude, but that doesn't mean it is and she has to move.

Ihatecuddles

irish_goat wrote: »

If there is a queue of people waiting for coffee ahead of you and very few seats, then yes.

Then tough sh*t I reckon. I wouldn't bat an eyelid ay others doing it.

Karl Stein

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Love the huffing and puffing when you ask some one to move stuff from a seat on packed train on a Friday evening

You should watch 'Curb Your Enthusiasm', you'd love Larry David putting everything right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIVYdd60eNs

emmabrighton

The coffee shop thing drives me nuts too... especially when the time it takes to drink the coffee is often shorter than the time it takes to stand in the queue.

To be fair though, this could be resolved by a notice in the coffee shop seating area "please no taking seats until drinks have been purchased" or some such.

It is a bit unfair to expect the customers to enforce your coffee shops seating etiquette.

Pinch Flat

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's a little rude but if I were her and someone confronted me like that there is no way I would move.

Rude to assert yourself or rude to ask someone to move?

A few weeks ago, my mother was travelling back home on the train. A couple had booked seats on the train (a new phenomenon here but common place in Europe for years) and their name was displayed on the digital read out above the seats. An older man sat in the seats and point black refused to move - he had bought his ticket, and that was it. The fact that someone had gone to the bother of booking these ws lost on him. Inspector called, few other guys from IR and train was held up a few minutes while this was sorted out. In the end, he was left where he was and the two others had to find their own seats apart.

I suppose you'll occasionally get people who are equally assertive with their own ignorance.

FunLover18

irish_goat wrote: »

If there is a queue of people waiting for coffee ahead of you and very few seats, then yes.

I disagree, it's just sense. If I was on my own I wouldn't 'book' a seat with a coat because there's no need (nothing to do with etiquette) but if I'm with a friend it just makes sense that one should get a seat while the other orders for both.

Pinch Flat

mauzo! wrote: »

I kind of like our Irish approach, be annoyed but moan about it later. I'd hate to do something I'd consider ok, and have someone correct me in public.

Who says you're right? Why can't the lady 'book' a seat? You might consider it rude, but that doesn't mean it is and she has to move.

It's social manners I'm talking about - perhaps unwritten rules. So, it's not a rule to hold open a door and not let it fling in someone's face, but more polite to perhaps hold the door momentarily. Not stand there like a bell boy either.

Legs.Eleven

I assert myself in extreme situations where I'm left with no choice or the person is really blatantly taking the piss. I think the last time I did was when a few teenagers decided to sit on the floor of the Metro carriage during rush hour, so I asked them politely but curtly to stand up as there wasn't room for everyone and someone would accidentally stand on them if they didn't. I was expecting lip as you might get in Ireland but they were grand about it and embarrassed to be caught out. I've done that a few times.

I also had a go at some man who was being an arsehole to the kind, old barman in the bar where I have my coffee in the morning a month or so ago. I asked him what his problem was and why he was talking to the barman that way. I couldn't keep it in but it shut your man up anyway. I don't think it was my place to say anything though but that's how I am sometimes.


Otherwise it's passive-aggressive complaining under my breath. I have to be careful as I can fly off the handle unexpectedly, so I tend to try to keep it under wraps.

You become a lot more tolerant of crappy behaviour living in a big city anyway. Things that would phase many people don't phase me as much as they used to.

FunLover18

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Rude to assert yourself or rude to ask someone to move?

A few weeks ago, my mother was travelling back home on the train. A couple had booked seats on the train (a new phenomenon here but common place in Europe for years) and their name was displayed on the digital read out above the seats. An older man sat in the seats and point black refused to move - he had bought his ticket, and that was it. The fact that someone had gone to the bother of booking these ws lost on him. Inspector called, few other guys from IR and train was held up a few minutes while this was sorted out. In the end, he was left where he was and the two others had to find their own seats apart.

I suppose you'll occasionally get people who are equally assertive with their own ignorance.

Now that is flat out rude and there's no way I'd let him get away with that.

sopretty

mauzo! wrote: »

Then tough sh*t I reckon. I wouldn't bat an eyelid ay others doing it.

Well of course one should sit down and one queue. Otherwise you'd have 2 eejits blocking up a queue unnecessarily and the OP would be quick to put 'manners' on them and tell them to remove themselves from the queue.

Personally, I dislike chaos, and am quite an obedient sort of individual. I like logical policies, such as 'Queue this side' or something like that. In the absence of any policy or procedure. then I'd take umbrage at some randomer taking it upon themselves to boss people around.

In the cinema setting, I'd be more inclined to complain to an usher and get them to speak to the yappers.

mad muffin

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

No that's not rude. It's the norm the world over.

What is rude is a person coming in by themselves expecting to take up a whole table whilst a group of people wait around for them to finish.

mad muffin

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's a weird one isnt it? Got me thinking. Its acceptable for one person to sit at the table and the other to buy food (imo). So, I dont know about the woman keeping the seat. Maybe she was just being smarter than the rest It's a little rude but if I were her and someone confronted me like that there is no way I would move.

If someone came up to me and told me to move because they thought they deserved the seat more than me, I would tell them to fúck off (the elderly or pregnant excluded of course)

Arbiter of Good Taste

I had a situation on an Aer Lingus flight recently which made me laugh. I boarded the plane and proceeded towards my seat, which was an aisle seat. There was a middle aged couple in the window (him) and middle (her) seats. Her coat and hat were on my seat and she was all buckled up reading a magazine - so it wasn't like she had just dumped them there for a few minutes while she sorted herself out. I politely said, "sorry that's my seat" and the filthy look she gave me was unbelievable. Cue an audible sigh while she took her stuff. I'm not sure where she thought I should have sat.

So she then proceeded to continuously sigh loudly. I thought maybe she was having some type of panic or asthma attack.

As it happened the row ahead of us was empty. Normally I would have jumped into the empty row once the flight took off, but this time I stayed put, took out my laptop, spread my elbows and worked away for the hour. She was not happy

Pinch Flat

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

You become a lot more tolerant of crappy behaviour living in a big city anyway. Things that would phase many people don't phase me as much as they used to.

Maybe there's a bit of this, but I lived in London for 5 years, so large cities don't phase me. Dublin is a lot smaller and wheras I would say Londoners are "ruder" on first meeting, they are actually just used to these social norms that have developed there over years and will more than likely put you right when you break these.

With Irish people, I find them more self centred - it's all about me. So, I'll happily laugh, joke, text and take calls through the movie and it's you're problem if you interject.

emmabrighton

sopretty wrote: »

Well of course one should sit down and one queue. Otherwise you'd have 2 eejits blocking up a queue unnecessarily and the OP would be quick to put 'manners' on them and tell them to remove themselves from the queue.

Jeeze, to me that is a Ryanair model - "Quick, dash for a seat as soon as one becomes available". So it looks like I am going to have to go to coffee shops with waiters. This is always happening in my local coffee shop. You walk in, there are no seats, so you and your partner joins the queue together. Next more people come in, still no seats... they join the queue together and so on. Then someone gets up to leave and one of us in the queue dashes over and stands guard over the person getting ready to leave. Marking ownership over the "good table".

If we all behaved ourselves and only looked for a seat when we reached the top of the queue. There would always be seats for us to sit in...

Just the panic mentality means people order their drink and then have to wander round the coffee shop looking for a seat because there are a load of table bookers sitting down and daring you to say something...

:mad:

ps. I will get my mom to do the seat booking when I am out with her cos I can't bare the nasty looks people like me throw seat bookers...

Pinch Flat

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

So she then proceeded to continuously sigh loudly. I thought maybe she was having some type of panic or asthma attack.

It's the sighing I love - people personalise it so much. You don't get it outside of Ireland.

I decided to go into the flight fest with my 7 year old son in September. When the train arrived at our station, it was packed - if we missed this train, we missed the start of the flight fest and my little guy would have been devastated. So I was getting on that train.

People were packed at the space at the doors - but plenty of room in the aisles. I asked people to please move down the aisles so the few waiting to get on could be accommodated - well, you swear I'd asked them to stand on their heads in a barrel of sh!t. Moaning, tutting, 'we've got children with us as well'. Anyway, after 30 or so seconds of me telling every one to use the available space on the train, guess what? we all go on. No-one died and we had a great day.

Legs.Eleven

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Maybe there's a bit of this, but I lived in London for 5 years, so large cities don't phase me. Dublin is a lot smaller and wheras I would say Londoners are "ruder" on first meeting, they are actually just used to these social norms that have developed there over years and will more than likely put you right when you break these.

With Irish people, I find them more self centred - it's all about me. So, I'll happily laugh, joke, text and take calls through the movie and it's you're problem if you interject.

In general, I don't find the Irish particularly rude and from my experience, most people accept and respect the social norms (social norms obviously differ in smaller cities). Don't find them ruder than anywhere else tbh. Obviously talking during a film is highly rude but it's generally not accepted and the vast majority of people don't do that.

anncoates

I'm normally very polite and mannerly in social situations but tend to get a bit worked up if I think people are being rude or ignorant to me or if they are - admittedly, imo - being stupid and often say something acid-tongued to them. I try not to but often I just blurt it out and regret it later.

Pinch Flat

anncoates wrote: »

I'm normally very polite and mannerly in social situations but tend to get a bit a bit worked up if I think people are being rude to me and often say something acid-tongued to them. I try not to but often I just blurt it out and regret it later.

Being honest, I felt a bit guilty when I asked the lady to move her stuff .But what was I to do - stand with my coffee upon on a saucer in one hand and a plate with my bun in the other, waiting for a set to come free while getting jostled in a busy city centre coffee shop?

Red21

Pinch Flat wrote: »

So I politely tell the lady to move her stuff so I can sit down - she's surprised and says she didn't realise I could do that and sort of questions me. Well, I said where am I going to sit? She moved her stuff in a huff and, when a seat became available, I could feel her seething con?tempt towards me. So, harsh or not?

Are you saying she didn't move right awat but waited till one became avaiable and then moved.

If she had refused to move what would you've done?

Pinch Flat

Red21 wrote: »

Are you saying she didn't move right awat but waited till one became avaiable and then moved.

If she had refused to move what would you've done?

No, she moved right away. If she hadn't of moved - well, I was going to squeeze in beside her.:D

Legs.Eleven

Pinch Flat wrote: »

No, she moved right away. If she hadn't of moved - well, I was going to squeeze in beside her.:D

Actually, this is one thing that doesn't happen many places outside Ireland: people sitting down at the same table with you. They'll ask you politely if it's okay if they sit there and you sit there in silence eating your lunch together. Last time I was home I got the shock of my life when someone did as I haven't lived there in years and wasn't used to it. We ended up having a nice chat about Pennys and the weather.

You do NOT do that here in Madrid. A Spanish person I know even commented on it after she'd been to Ireland. You have one person sitting on a massive, long table suitable for about 20 people and no one will ask if it's okay to share it. If you do, prepare for a simple, "No" and possible Bitch Face.

Imhof Tank

Couple of weeks ago, got on a not too crowded Dart about 9.30 am. I sat on the outside of a seat with a mid-20s girl by the window (casually dressed, had one of those security passes on a string around her neck, I took her for a call centre worker possibly) and a older guy opposite me with no one beside him.

I could see immediately that the girl had the edge of her shoe on the leading edge of the empty seat opposite her. That annoyed me straight away and I got the sense all 3 of us were focusing on that foot to see what she do with it.
After 2 stations up went the foot and I exploded “SEATS ARE NOT FOR FEET” (might possibly have said that a little too loud with my ear phones in), pointing at the sign and illustration on the window. Guy opposite me seemed to think this was hilarious.

Anyway yer one took down her feet immediately, turned to me, held her face 6 inches from mine and we proceeded to have a sort of staring contest for a good 10 seconds until she looked away and that was that I thought. I then saw that she was wiping her eyes and seemed to be sobbing for the next 20 minutes. This went on until Tara Street where she gathered up her bags to get off, and then we had an exchange which was pretty much word for word:

Her – I just want to say “congratulations” on reading the sign
Me- No problem, I thought you couldn’t read
Her – You are smarter than you look
Me – Thank you!
Her – (mouths silent expletive)
Me – (raises middle finger)
Her - (over the top ironic friendly wave to me) (she was off the carriage and gesturing at me through the window from the platform at this stage)

So what do you make of that? She was 1000% in the wrong over the feet on seats thing and had to know that. She basically went postal anyway so was there something about how I challenged her? Or was it just her. My opinion at the time was that she somehow felt that I would be slower to challenge a skinhead or a junkie for example (which is probably true in fairness) and it enraged her that I felt confident enough to confront her, like I was the one disrespecting her?? I am male, mid 40s, suit & tie combo, by the way.

Tiddlypeeps

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Being honest, I felt a bit guilty when I asked the lady to move her stuff .But what was I to do - stand with my coffee upon on a saucer in one hand and a plate with my bun in the other, waiting for a set to come free while getting jostled in a busy city centre coffee shop?

What would you have done if there were no tables?

I don't get this at all. If there were feck all tables and not likely to be any free when you get your order why the hell would you queue up in the first place?

I don't go to coffee shops alone, don't really see the point so I'd never book at table with my bag. But when I do go with someone else I make sure I have a table before ordering. I'm not gonna spend a fortune on a drink and possibly a snack when there might be no tables when I get to the end of the queue. That to me just seems like a really stupid thing to do. You'll be left standing like an eejit, coffee in hand, waiting for a table to free up. It could be cold by the time you get a seat and you won't be able to relax and chat with your friend while frantically looking for a sign that someone is about to get up.

I had no idea this was considered bad manners by anyone and to be honest I don't really care. If someone asked me to move while I sit at a table and wait for my friend to return with our order then I'd tell them where to go.

Demanding that someone move like that because of some rule you made up in your head seems like the absolute hight of bad manners and self centeredness.

Voodoomelon

anncoates wrote: »

I'm normally very polite and mannerly in social situations but tend to get a bit worked up if I think people are being rude or ignorant to me or if they are - admittedly, imo - being stupid and often say something acid-tongued to them. I try not to but often I just blurt it out and regret it later.

I'm the same, I normally wouldn't say boo to a mouse but if I have to sit there seething for a few minutes while someone annoys the hell out of me, i'll end up saying something.

I'm the worst in the cinema, not only do you have to contend with yappers, we also have smartphones acting like flood lights when people whip them out to check Facebook in the middle of a film.

Usually say something to these arses if they don't put them away very quickly. I still remember roaring out a few years ago to some girls to shut the hell up; others obviously felt the same as two more people shouted out at the same time in agreement.

OldNotWIse

irish_goat wrote: »

If there is a queue of people waiting for coffee ahead of you and very few seats, then yes.

It's their own fault if they were silly enough to overlook the vacant seats Fortune favours the brave :pac:

mad muffin

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Couple of weeks ago, got on a not too crowded Dart about 9.30 am. I sat on the outside of a seat with a mid-20s girl by the window (casually dressed, had one of those security passes on a string around her neck, I took her for a call centre worker possibly) and a older guy opposite me with no one beside him.

I could see immediately that the girl had the edge of her shoe on the leading edge of the empty seat opposite her. That annoyed me straight away and I got the sense all 3 of us were focusing on that foot to see what she do with it.
After 2 stations up went the foot and I exploded “SEATS ARE NOT FOR FEET” (might possibly have said that a little too loud with my ear phones in), pointing at the sign and illustration on the window. Guy opposite me seemed to think this was hilarious.

Anyway yer one took down her feet immediately, turned to me, held her face 6 inches from mine and we proceeded to have a sort of staring contest for a good 10 seconds until she looked away and that was that I thought. I then saw that she was wiping her eyes and seemed to be sobbing for the next 20 minutes. This went on until Tara Street where she gathered up her bags to get off, and then we had an exchange which was pretty much word for word:

Her – I just want to say “congratulations” on reading the sign
Me- No problem, I thought you couldn’t read
Her – You are smarter than you look
Me – Thank you!
Her – (mouths silent expletive)
Me – (raises middle finger)
Her - (over the top ironic friendly wave to me) (she was off the carriage and gesturing at me through the window from the platform at this stage)

So what do you make of that? She was 1000% in the wrong over the feet on seats thing and had to know that. She basically went postal anyway so was there something about how I challenged her? Or was it just her. My opinion at the time was that she somehow felt that I would be slower to challenge a skinhead or a junkie for example (which is probably true in fairness) and it enraged her that I felt confident enough to confront her, like I was the one disrespecting her?? I am male, mid 40s, suit & tie combo, by the way.

Sounds to me like love at first sight.

GreeBo

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

What would you have done if there were no tables?

I don't get this at all. If there were feck all tables and not likely to be any free when you get your order why the hell would you queue up in the first place?

I don't go to coffee shops alone, don't really see the point so I'd never book at table with my bag. But when I do go with someone else I make sure I have a table before ordering. I'm not gonna spend a fortune on a drink and possibly a snack when there might be no tables when I get to the end of the queue. That to me just seems like a really stupid thing to do. You'll be left standing like an eejit, coffee in hand, waiting for a table to free up. It could be cold by the time you get a seat and you won't be able to relax and chat with your friend while frantically looking for a sign that someone is about to get up.

I had no idea this was considered bad manners by anyone and to be honest I don't really care. If someone asked me to move while I sit at a table and wait for my friend to return with our order then I'd tell them where to go.

Demanding that someone move like that because of some rule you made up in your head seems like the absolute hight of bad manners and self centeredness.

If everyone only looked for a seat when they had their stuff then it would be much easier to determine of there are seats free or not when you need them, its impossible to figure out otherwise as depending on the numbers together some will sit before ordering and some wont....chaos.

Its not some rule you made up, its the equivalent of towels on the sunbed the night before. Where do you draw the line with this? Can I just leave some stuff on a table in the morning so I have it booked for lunchtime?

Get a table when you have ordered, simples.

stinkle

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I had a situation on an Aer Lingus flight recently which made me laugh. I boarded the plane and proceeded towards my seat, which was an aisle seat. There was a middle aged couple in the window (him) and middle (her) seats. Her coat and hat were on my seat and she was all buckled up reading a magazine - so it wasn't like she had just dumped them there for a few minutes while she sorted herself out. I politely said, "sorry that's my seat" and the filthy look she gave me was unbelievable. Cue an audible sigh while she took her stuff. I'm not sure where she thought I should have sat.

So she then proceeded to continuously sigh loudly. I thought maybe she was having some type of panic or asthma attack.

As it happened the row ahead of us was empty. Normally I would have jumped into the empty row once the flight took off, but this time I stayed put, took out my laptop, spread my elbows and worked away for the hour. She was not happy

Had a similar enough experience last week on a very full transatlantic flight - middle aged couple dumping all their stuff on my seat before I boarded. They were grand once they realised, but come on, the departure gate area was jammed, why would you put all your stuff there knowing it was very likely that someone would be allocated the seat.

Same flight - overhead bin for our row was unusually tiny as it was near the emergency exit which was fair enough. I needed to use the one beside it but the one guy ahead of me managed to sprawl 4 pieces of hand luggage into it leaving me with no room for my small backpack. I just asked the stewardess and she made him pack things in a more sensible way.

Train booking system used to do my head in too when I travelled from Dublin to Clare every other week. I used to deliberately book a window seat in a two-seater row so i could plug in my laptop and work, so wouldnt be prepared to move for anyone hogging my seat as I chose it for a reason. I'd usually point out I had it booked and needed to use the socket.

Red21

Pinch Flat wrote: »

No, she moved right away. If she hadn't of moved - well, I was going to squeeze in beside her.:D

If I was alone I wouldn't block off a seat cos it's so easy to fit in some corner when it's just youself. If it was 2 one of us often does block off a seat, but this is usually a dash from mid-queue if the place is filling up. Plus what tiddlypeeps just said- I'll give a look in the door and it's very busy/full I'll move on.

Legs.Eleven

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Couple of weeks ago, got on a not too crowded Dart about 9.30 am. I sat on the outside of a seat with a mid-20s girl by the window (casually dressed, had one of those security passes on a string around her neck, I took her for a call centre worker possibly) and a older guy opposite me with no one beside him.

I could see immediately that the girl had the edge of her shoe on the leading edge of the empty seat opposite her. That annoyed me straight away and I got the sense all 3 of us were focusing on that foot to see what she do with it.
After 2 stations up went the foot and I exploded “SEATS ARE NOT FOR FEET” (might possibly have said that a little too loud with my ear phones in), pointing at the sign and illustration on the window. Guy opposite me seemed to think this was hilarious.

Anyway yer one took down her feet immediately, turned to me, held her face 6 inches from mine and we proceeded to have a sort of staring contest for a good 10 seconds until she looked away and that was that I thought. I then saw that she was wiping her eyes and seemed to be sobbing for the next 20 minutes. This went on until Tara Street where she gathered up her bags to get off, and then we had an exchange which was pretty much word for word:

Her – I just want to say “congratulations” on reading the sign
Me- No problem, I thought you couldn’t read
Her – You are smarter than you look
Me – Thank you!
Her – (mouths silent expletive)
Me – (raises middle finger)
Her - (over the top ironic friendly wave to me) (she was off the carriage and gesturing at me through the window from the platform at this stage)

So what do you make of that? She was 1000% in the wrong over the feet on seats thing and had to know that. She basically went postal anyway so was there something about how I challenged her? Or was it just her. My opinion at the time was that she somehow felt that I would be slower to challenge a skinhead or a junkie for example (which is probably true in fairness) and it enraged her that I felt confident enough to confront her, like I was the one disrespecting her?? I am male, mid 40s, suit & tie combo, by the way.

Jaysus it all sounds very childish. She shouldn't have had her feet on the seats but there's probably a better way to say it to her that wouldn't have provoked that reaction. Shouting and pointing at the sign would rile most people up, I'd think.

Would you have said it to a man your own age by any chance? Another man in a suit and tie combo, even?

Katgurl

Yes when I find people behaving in a rude way I do assert myself, no problem. The key is to smile, be calm and very firm. You have to be respectful - its not alright to embarrass the other person when there is a high probability they didnt even know they were being rude.

However OP, 'manners' or acceptable behaviour varies with where you are. I've even noticed vast difference between Dublin and Galway. So I think you have to be flexible to what's acceptable in your surroundings. Just because something worked well in Germany doesn't mean it's the same in Ireland. My mother alway says she enjoys travelling in France, that boys will automatically hop out of their seats on the train and offer to her. That doesn't mean somebody merits a telling off for not doing the same here. Perhaps that woman in the cafe thought it perfectly acceptable to book her seat as that is what she had seen everyone do for years?

To be honest if it was me in that cafe and a woman on her own did that I wouldn't have asked her to move I would have said "oh that's the last table, would you mind if I shared?"

When I moved to Galway first , people drove me mad; always a little bit late and never accurate when saying how far away they were. Another guy I know here has lived in Sweden for years and only moved back to Galway three years ago. He is permanently enraged waiting ten or fifteen minutes for people every time and repeating the same things over and over "I'm on time. You're on time. Why can't he/she be on time". I think this is ridiculous. It's obviously deemed not rude to be up to 15 mins late here so expecting everyone else to suddenly tow the line with your expectations is ruder IMO.

Manners aren't set in stone and you also need to be flexible with your surroundings.