Social Manners - what are people's opinions?

Pinch Flat · 05-03-2014 10:58AM #1

I like to think of myself as being pretty mannerly and polite, but if something is not right, I will generally assert myself (politely). So, for example, a neighbour that is parking inconsiderately (blocking drives / paths), people talking in the cinema, people putting their bags on empty seats on trains / buses when they're packed (I will move them without question) or the odd parent that thinks it's ok to show up to our GAA club and litter the sidelines with paper coffee cups while they watch their little ones play - I will tackle these issue politely rather than moan about them. I lived in Germany for a while, and they're much quicker to tell you what's right or wrong - people generally tow the line there and if you're corrected it's no big deal.

One of my pet hates is people in coffee shops who, upon arriving, decide they can 'book' a table in a packed coffee shop while the rest of us are awaiting to be served. These are coffee shops without table service. So yesterday morning, I decide to take sometime out in town and grab a coffee and bun. I'm at the top of the queue in a packed coffee shop (there's one seat left), when a woman comes in, puts her belonging's on the last available seat to 'book it' and then proceeds to queue up to be served. When I turn around, both hands full with a coffee and plate in one hand, there's nowhere for me to sit. So I politely tell the lady to move her stuff so I can sit down - she's surprised and says she didn't realise I could do that and sort of questions me. Well, I said where am I going to sit? She moved her stuff in a huff and, when a seat became available, I could feel her seething contempt towards me. So, harsh or not?

Please - no personal abuse. Just a general debate - Do people generally put up with sh!te or assert themselves?

GreeBo · 05-03-2014 11:02AM

I think moving someones stuff without asking/telling is rude tbh

The rest of it Im ok with.
I had to tell an older gentleman in the gym this morning that it wasnt appropriate for him to clean between his toes on the bench that everyone else uses in the changing room...he seemed quite put out.

Pinch Flat · 05-03-2014 11:04AM

GreeBo wrote: »

I think moving someones stuff without asking/telling is rude tbh

The rest of it Im ok with.
I had to tell an older gentleman in the gym this morning that it wasnt appropriate for him to clean between his toes on the bench that everyone else uses in the changing room...he seemed quite put out.

Well, fair enough - I suppose I wouldn't move people's stuff. Love the huffing and puffing when you ask some one to move stuff from a seat on packed train on a Friday evening - no, put it in the proper storage area you tw@t and then no-one will have to ask you to move it.

jester77 · 05-03-2014 11:05AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I like to think of myself as being pretty mannerly and polite, but if something is not right, I will generally assert myself (politely). So, for example, a neighbour that is parking inconsiderately (blocking drives / paths), people talking in the cinema, people putting their bags on empty seats on trains / buses when they're packed (I will move them without question) or the odd parent that thinks it's ok to show up to our GAA club and litter the sidelines with paper coffee cups while they watch their little ones play - I will tackle these issue politely rather than moan about them. I lived in Germany for a while, and they're much quicker to tell you what's right or wrong - people generally tow the line there and if you're corrected it's no big deal.

One of my pet hates is people in coffee shops who, upon arriving, decide they can 'book' a table in a packed coffee shop while the rest of us are awaiting to be served. These are coffee shops without table service. So yesterday morning, I decide to take sometime out in town and grab a coffee and bun. I'm at the top of the queue in a packed coffee shop (there's one seat left), when a woman comes in, puts her belonging's on the last available seat to 'book it' and then proceeds to queue up to be served. When I turn around, both hands full with a coffee and plate in one hand, there's nowhere for me to sit. So I politely tell the lady to move her stuff so I can sit down - she's surprised and says she didn't realise I could do that and sort of questions me. Well, I said where am I going to sit? She moved her stuff in a huff and, when a seat became available, I could feel her seething contempt towards me. So, harsh or not?

Please - no personal abuse. Just a general debate - Do people generally put up with sh!te or assert themselves?

Spot on telling her to move her stuff. I really hate when people do that. I live in Germany and people do that here. There is a great burger bar downstairs in my office building and during lunch you would queue about 15 mins. There are people that come in as a group and block some seats while one person orders for them. It is much harder to move a group, but what is annoying is that I would be finished and gone by the time they get their food. They just mess up the flow.

jester77 · 05-03-2014 11:08AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Well, fair enough - I suppose I wouldn't move people's stuff. Love the huffing and puffing when you ask some one to move stuff from a seat on packed train on a Friday evening - no, put it in the proepr storage you tw@t and then no-one will have to ask you to move it.

The best approach I've seen to this was by a ticket conductor on a train here. Someone had their bags on the seat next to them when the train was full. He asked her for a second ticket and she looked confused. He told her she was using 2 seats and wanted to see a second ticket. She was quick to move her stuff after that!

Pinch Flat · 05-03-2014 11:10AM

jester77 wrote: »

I live in Germany and people do that here. .

But my experience in Germany (Karlsruhe) is that people when corrected will generally just get on with it - Irish people seem to personalise things.

So, when I'm paying 20 odd quid for myself and Mrs. Pinch Flat to go to the cinema and listen to a full scale conversation behind me, and point out that the pub is perhaps a more appropriate environment for conversations to the offender, you're often met with 'what's your problem'.

My stock reply to this is 'my problem is I'm paying a small fortune between cinema entry, baby sitting and perhaps a taxi home if we decide to have a few beers, so why don't you shut up'.

jester77 · 05-03-2014 11:17AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

But my experience in Germany (Karlsruhe) is that people when corrected will generally just get on with it - Irish people seem to personalise things.

So, when I'm paying 20 odd quid for myself and Mrs. Pinch Flat to go to the cinema and listen to a full scale conversation behind me, and point out that the pub is perhaps a more appropriate environment for conversations to the offender, you're often me with 'what's your problem'.

My stock reply to this is 'my problem is I'm paying a small fortune between cinema entry, baby sitting and perhaps a taxi home if we decide to have a few beers, so why don't you shut up'.

That is just bad manners, no one talks in the cinema here or takes out their phones.

But I've often had to deal with people blocking seats in cafe/restaurants while someone queues for them. Some take it very personally and stand their ground and refuse to move. The only thing you can do is take the spare seat and sit beside them.

FunLover18 · 05-03-2014 11:19AM

I agree with the OP and wish I was more like that. I tend to be a moaner. Although that said if there's a group and some take a seat while others order I have no problem with that. I've done it so I'm not going to get annoyed when others do it.

Can I ask what exactly is so inappropriate about this. Presumably there are showers so he should have done it in there but it's not like he was knocking one out.

GreeBo wrote: »

I had to tell an older gentleman in the gym this morning that it wasnt appropriate for him to clean between his toes on the bench that everyone else uses in the changing room...he seemed quite put out.

OldNotWIse · 05-03-2014 11:21AM

Agree with most of your post, and I think Irish people are lacking somewhat in this regard. A lot of us tend to be on the passive aggressive side, and will expect dirty looks (or venting on boards/metroherald) to solve the problem. I would move my bag if a bus was filling up, but if I didnt see that it was filling, I'd expect you to just say, "excuse me" and point to the bag. I'd be p1ssed with someone for touching my personal belongings without asking, and would probably tell you as much. A bag on a seat justifies a request for it to be moved, it does not justify a stranger pawing at it imo.

GreeBo · 05-03-2014 11:21AM

FunLover18 wrote: »

I agree with the OP and wish I was more like that. I tend to be a moaner. Although that said if there's a group and some take a seat while others order I have no problem with that. I've done it so I'm not going to get annoyed when others do it.

Can I ask what exactly is so inappropriate about this. Presumably there are showers so he should have done it in there but it's not like he was knocking one out.

He was cleaning the gunk from between his toes onto the same bench that everyone else was going to be using...thats inappropriate to me.
Why would I want to sit or put my things on his foot gunk?

sopretty · 05-03-2014 11:22AM

I would find your approach to be quite rude. I don't like being dictated to by a self appointed 'manners' advocate. I'd be inclined to respond to you with 'you're not the boss of me!'

Ihatecuddles · 05-03-2014 11:22AM

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

Pinch Flat · 05-03-2014 11:25AM

sopretty wrote: »

I would find your approach to be quite rude. I don't like being dictated to by a self appointed 'manners' advocate. I'd be inclined to respond to you with 'you're not the boss of me!'

Well, it's a difference between being rude and assertive. Admittedly touching other people's stuff may be rude, but I see no other issue with the other situations I pointed out.

Aidric · 05-03-2014 11:26AM

sopretty wrote: »

I would find your approach to be quite rude. I don't like being dictated to by a self appointed 'manners' advocate. I'd be inclined to respond to you with 'you're not the boss of me!'

You can be firm without being rude.

OldNotWIse · 05-03-2014 11:26AM

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

It's a weird one isnt it? Got me thinking. Its acceptable for one person to sit at the table and the other to buy food (imo). So, I dont know about the woman keeping the seat. Maybe she was just being smarter than the rest

It's a little rude but if I were her and someone confronted me like that there is no way I would move.

Ihatecuddles · 05-03-2014 11:28AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's a weird one isnt it? Got me thinking. Its acceptable for one person to sit at the table and the other to buy food (imo). So, I dont know about the woman keeping the seat. Maybe she was just being smarter than the rest It's a little rude but if I were her and someone confronted me like that there is no way I would move.

I wouldn't move either, but I wouldn't have done it to begin with!

FunLover18 · 05-03-2014 11:28AM

GreeBo wrote: »

He was cleaning the gunk from between his toes onto the same bench that everyone else was going to be using...thats inappropriate to me.
Why would I want to sit or put my things on his foot gunk?

Ah right I hadn't realised there was gunk involved

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

I wouldn't see this as rude, as I'd do it myself. Rudeness is fairly subjective, although there are certainly things everyone can agree on

SpaceCowb0y · 05-03-2014 11:29AM

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

If i went into a coffee shop with one other person and seen a table for two free the logical thing to do would be to take the table while one person queues?? Anyone who doesn't do this is a fool! Why would you let the table go when as you enter it is currently vacant??

If you're on your own however and have left your stuff on a seat i would think that is a bit cheeky!

irish_goat · 05-03-2014 11:29AM

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

If there is a queue of people waiting for coffee ahead of you and very few seats, then yes.

Ihatecuddles · 05-03-2014 11:29AM

I kind of like our Irish approach, be annoyed but moan about it later. I'd hate to do something I'd consider ok, and have someone correct me in public.

Who says you're right? Why can't the lady 'book' a seat? You might consider it rude, but that doesn't mean it is and she has to move.

Ihatecuddles · 05-03-2014 11:31AM

irish_goat wrote: »

If there is a queue of people waiting for coffee ahead of you and very few seats, then yes.

Then tough sh*t I reckon. I wouldn't bat an eyelid ay others doing it.

Karl Stein · 05-03-2014 11:32AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Love the huffing and puffing when you ask some one to move stuff from a seat on packed train on a Friday evening

You should watch 'Curb Your Enthusiasm', you'd love Larry David putting everything right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIVYdd60eNs

emmabrighton · 05-03-2014 11:33AM

The coffee shop thing drives me nuts too... especially when the time it takes to drink the coffee is often shorter than the time it takes to stand in the queue.

To be fair though, this could be resolved by a notice in the coffee shop seating area "please no taking seats until drinks have been purchased" or some such.

It is a bit unfair to expect the customers to enforce your coffee shops seating etiquette.

Pinch Flat · 05-03-2014 11:34AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's a little rude but if I were her and someone confronted me like that there is no way I would move.

Rude to assert yourself or rude to ask someone to move?

A few weeks ago, my mother was travelling back home on the train. A couple had booked seats on the train (a new phenomenon here but common place in Europe for years) and their name was displayed on the digital read out above the seats. An older man sat in the seats and point black refused to move - he had bought his ticket, and that was it. The fact that someone had gone to the bother of booking these ws lost on him. Inspector called, few other guys from IR and train was held up a few minutes while this was sorted out. In the end, he was left where he was and the two others had to find their own seats apart.

I suppose you'll occasionally get people who are equally assertive with their own ignorance.

FunLover18 · 05-03-2014 11:34AM

irish_goat wrote: »

If there is a queue of people waiting for coffee ahead of you and very few seats, then yes.

I disagree, it's just sense. If I was on my own I wouldn't 'book' a seat with a coat because there's no need (nothing to do with etiquette) but if I'm with a friend it just makes sense that one should get a seat while the other orders for both.

Pinch Flat · 05-03-2014 11:35AM

mauzo! wrote: »

I kind of like our Irish approach, be annoyed but moan about it later. I'd hate to do something I'd consider ok, and have someone correct me in public.

Who says you're right? Why can't the lady 'book' a seat? You might consider it rude, but that doesn't mean it is and she has to move.

It's social manners I'm talking about - perhaps unwritten rules. So, it's not a rule to hold open a door and not let it fling in someone's face, but more polite to perhaps hold the door momentarily. Not stand there like a bell boy either.

Legs.Eleven · 05-03-2014 11:36AM

I assert myself in extreme situations where I'm left with no choice or the person is really blatantly taking the piss. I think the last time I did was when a few teenagers decided to sit on the floor of the Metro carriage during rush hour, so I asked them politely but curtly to stand up as there wasn't room for everyone and someone would accidentally stand on them if they didn't. I was expecting lip as you might get in Ireland but they were grand about it and embarrassed to be caught out. I've done that a few times.

I also had a go at some man who was being an arsehole to the kind, old barman in the bar where I have my coffee in the morning a month or so ago. I asked him what his problem was and why he was talking to the barman that way. I couldn't keep it in but it shut your man up anyway. I don't think it was my place to say anything though but that's how I am sometimes.

Otherwise it's passive-aggressive complaining under my breath. I have to be careful as I can fly off the handle unexpectedly, so I tend to try to keep it under wraps.

You become a lot more tolerant of crappy behaviour living in a big city anyway. Things that would phase many people don't phase me as much as they used to.

FunLover18 · 05-03-2014 11:36AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Rude to assert yourself or rude to ask someone to move?

A few weeks ago, my mother was travelling back home on the train. A couple had booked seats on the train (a new phenomenon here but common place in Europe for years) and their name was displayed on the digital read out above the seats. An older man sat in the seats and point black refused to move - he had bought his ticket, and that was it. The fact that someone had gone to the bother of booking these ws lost on him. Inspector called, few other guys from IR and train was held up a few minutes while this was sorted out. In the end, he was left where he was and the two others had to find their own seats apart.

I suppose you'll occasionally get people who are equally assertive with their own ignorance.

Now that is flat out rude and there's no way I'd let him get away with that.

sopretty · 05-03-2014 11:36AM

mauzo! wrote: »

Then tough sh*t I reckon. I wouldn't bat an eyelid ay others doing it.

Well of course one should sit down and one queue. Otherwise you'd have 2 eejits blocking up a queue unnecessarily and the OP would be quick to put 'manners' on them and tell them to remove themselves from the queue.

Personally, I dislike chaos, and am quite an obedient sort of individual. I like logical policies, such as 'Queue this side' or something like that. In the absence of any policy or procedure. then I'd take umbrage at some randomer taking it upon themselves to boss people around.

In the cinema setting, I'd be more inclined to complain to an usher and get them to speak to the yappers.

mad muffin · 05-03-2014 11:37AM

mauzo! wrote: »

If I went to a coffee shop with someone, one of us would get a seat and the other would get the coffee. Is that rude? Genuinely never realised

No that's not rude. It's the norm the world over.

What is rude is a person coming in by themselves expecting to take up a whole table whilst a group of people wait around for them to finish.

mad muffin · 05-03-2014 11:39AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's a weird one isnt it? Got me thinking. Its acceptable for one person to sit at the table and the other to buy food (imo). So, I dont know about the woman keeping the seat. Maybe she was just being smarter than the rest It's a little rude but if I were her and someone confronted me like that there is no way I would move.

If someone came up to me and told me to move because they thought they deserved the seat more than me, I would tell them to fúck off (the elderly or pregnant excluded of course)

Social Manners - what are people's opinions?

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