NCT - Fail Dangerous

svitalie

I had no passed the NCT and received the Failed Dangerous label on windscreen.
If I will repair the car, can I drive the car till retest time? Thanks.

biko

I would not think so, the car will still be classed as dangerous by nct until they have tested it again.
Ring them and ask.

Henry Ford III

Don't even think about it.

Chimaera

Fail dangerous means it's illegal to use the car on the road until the fault is repaired. You'll have to have it towed to the NCT centre for the retest too.

wonski

Well, when it is repaired then you can drive it.
The car is not to be driven until the dangerous fail is repaired.

Had one of these stickers up - the bonnet didn't seem to be closed properly.
They let me do it, agreed it is ok and allowed me to drive away. They couldn't - however - remove the dangerous fail at that time from the system. I didn't have to tow it back for retest.

corktina

I'd say you can't drive it on the road AT ALL until it passes a test, even if the fault has been fixed because it may not have been fixed properly in which case it is still dangerous.

wonski

http://www.rsa.ie/rsa/your-vehicle/your-vehicle-/nct/

Fail Dangerous

Where a vehicle has a dangerous defect i.e. a defect that constitutes a direct and immediate risk to road safety such that the vehicle should not be used on the road under any circumstances, the NCT vehicle inspector will issue a Failed Dangerous result.
It is an offence to drive a dangerously defective vehicle on the public road. The penalty for such an offence is a fine of up to €2000 and 5 penalty points on conviction and/or 3 months imprisonment, (Offence under Section 54 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 and related amendments).
When the result is Failed Dangerous the NCT vehicle inspector will advise you as follows:

• Of the existence, extent and nature of the defect.
• That if you drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while there is a defect affecting the vehicle which you know of or could have discovered by the exercise of ordinary care and which is such that the vehicle is, when in motion, a danger to the public, you shall be guilty of an offence.
• That in the opinion of NCTS the vehicle is dangerous.
• That you must make arrangements to have the vehicle removed from the test centre.

A sticker stating “Failed Dangerous” will be attached to the vehicle and the vehicle inspector will issue you with a statement regarding requirements for vehicles with a failed dangerous result.




If it is fixed it is fixed. Some of those dangerous defects are simple fix actually.
Some might be just a metal scrap.

corktina

it isn't fixed until it is re-tested surely.

Henry Ford III

wonski wrote: »

http://www.rsa.ie/rsa/your-vehicle/your-vehicle-/nct/

Fail Dangerous

Where a vehicle has a dangerous defect i.e. a defect that constitutes a direct and immediate risk to road safety such that the vehicle should not be used on the road under any circumstances, the NCT vehicle inspector will issue a Failed Dangerous result.
It is an offence to drive a dangerously defective vehicle on the public road. The penalty for such an offence is a fine of up to €2000 and 5 penalty points on conviction and/or 3 months imprisonment, (Offence under Section 54 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 and related amendments).
When the result is Failed Dangerous the NCT vehicle inspector will advise you as follows:

• Of the existence, extent and nature of the defect.
• That if you drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while there is a defect affecting the vehicle which you know of or could have discovered by the exercise of ordinary care and which is such that the vehicle is, when in motion, a danger to the public, you shall be guilty of an offence.
• That in the opinion of NCTS the vehicle is dangerous.
• That you must make arrangements to have the vehicle removed from the test centre.

A sticker stating “Failed Dangerous” will be attached to the vehicle and the vehicle inspector will issue you with a statement regarding requirements for vehicles with a failed dangerous result.




If it is fixed it is fixed. Some of those dangerous defects are simple fix actually.
Some might be just a metal scrap.

If the car has been issued a "fail dangerous" tag at NCT the decision to classify it as safe again is surely theirs too.

Hal1

Is there an echo in here?

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

I'd say you can't drive it on the road AT ALL until it passes a test, even if the fault has been fixed because it may not have been fixed properly in which case it is still dangerous.

corktina wrote: »

it isn't fixed until it is re-tested surely.

That's incorrect.
There isn't such offence as "driving car with fail dangerous" sticker on it.

Driving car which is dangerous is offence though.

Once you fix the problem, car is not dangerous anymore and there is nothing stopping anyone from driving it.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If the car has been issued a "fail dangerous" tag at NCT the decision to classify it as safe again is surely theirs too.

No.
They classified car as dangerous.
You can't drive away from NCT centre, as you would be driving dangerous car.

But once you fix the issue, car is not dangerous anymore and you can drive it.

NCT doesn't need to clasify anything.


If vehicle was dangerous and did not attended NCT, it still would be an offence to drive it, even though no one issued "fail dangerous" sticker.

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

No.
They classified car as dangerous.
You can't drive away from NCT centre, as you would be driving dangerous car.

But once you fix the issue, car is not dangerous anymore and you can drive it.

NCT doesn't need to clasify anything.


If vehicle was dangerous and did not attended NCT, it still would be an offence to drive it, even though no one issued "fail dangerous" sticker.

So the NCT decide that a car is dangerous and can't be driven, but anyone can decide it's no longer so.

That's the most ludicrous thing I've read here in some time.

keithsfleet

Can't believe no one had asked yet...

OP what did it fail on?

Henry Ford III

Just thinking on this a little more.

Why not instruct the NCT testers not to bother testing the brakes, or perhaps the emissions - because you've fixed them too and they're fine

Guy:Incognito

CiniO wrote: »

Once you fix the problem, car is not dangerous anymore and there is nothing stopping anyone from driving it.

And who verifies it's not dangerous anymore.........?

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

So the NCT decide that a car is dangerous and can't be driven, but anyone can decide it's no longer so.

That's the most ludicrous thing I've read here in some time.

You are half wrong.

NCT decides that car is dangerous - that's all.
NCT can not prohibit anyone to drive a car.

Only reason why the car can't be driven, is because it's dangerous and it's illegal to drive a dangerous car. Not because NCT centre issued a "fail dangerous" status on the car.

There is not such thing legally as "fail dangerous" status.
Only reason to put "fail dangerous" sticker on the car by NCT is to inform the driver that car is dangerous and it's illegal to drive it.

Once the issue which caused car to be dangerous is fixed, car can be driven again.

If you don't agree with that, please provide any proof - f.e. any law stating it's illegal to drive a car to which NCT centre issued "fail dangerous" status.
But I can tell you straight away not to even bother, as there is no such law.

CiniO

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And who verifies it's not dangerous anymore.........?

Who says it must be verified?

It's illegal to drive dangerous car. It's up to driver to make sure car he drives is not dangerous.


It has nothing to do with NCT, except they inform you that car in dangerous.

If half year after NCT your breaks stop working, your car will be dangerous.
It's up to you to decide not to drive it, as if you do, you will break the law by by driving dangerous car.

Once you fix the brakes, you are again OK to drive it, as car in not dangerous anymore. No one needs to verify it.

All role of NCT is to inform you if they discover that car is dangerous. It's up to you to make sure you don't drive dangerous car.

biko

CiniO wrote: »

That's incorrect.
There isn't such offence as "driving car with fail dangerous" sticker on it.

Driving car which is dangerous is offence though.

Once you fix the problem, car is not dangerous anymore and there is nothing stopping anyone from driving it.

It is an offence according to the nct manual, page 5

Fail Dangerous
When a vehicle is failed because of a dangerous defect (Defects that constitute a direct and immediate risk to road safety such that the vehicle should not be used on the road under any circumstances) the Vehicle Inspector should proceed as follows:
The customer must be informed:
• That the owner and/or driver of a mechanically propelled vehicle who drives a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while there is a defect affecting the vehicle which he knows of or could have discovered by the exercise of ordinary care and which is such that the vehicle is, when in motion, a danger to the public shall be guilty of an offence.
...
* A sticker stating “Failed Dangerous” should be attached to the vehicle
* If customer drives the vehicle off the premises the incident must be reported to An Garda Síochána immediately.

Now, I don't know if it's still an offence to drive car once it has been repaired but not yet tested.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Just thinking on this a little more.

Why not instruct the NCT testers not to bother testing the brakes, or perhaps the emissions - because you've fixed them too and they're fine

You are talking about completely different thing now.

NCT is a legal requirement. Car must undergo the test every so often.
And testing everything on from NCT manual is just part of the test.
If something that is being tested fails, car won't get a cert. Simples.

But it has nothing to do with driving dangerous car.

CiniO

biko wrote: »

It is an offence according to the nct manual, page 5

Sorry, but try to read it again, and tell me where this quotation says it's an offence to "drive a car which failed dangerous"...
Because IMHO it doesn't say anything like that.

All it says is definition of dangerous defect:
(Defects that constitute a direct and immediate risk to road safety such that the vehicle should not be used on the road under any circumstances

Now, I don't know if it's still an offence to drive car once it has been repaired but not yet tested.

But I know. It isn't an offence to drive a car which is safe.

TheHappyChappy

wonski wrote: »

Well, when it is repaired then you can drive it.
The car is not to be driven until the dangerous fail is repaired.

Had one of these stickers up - the bonnet didn't seem to be closed properly.
They let me do it, agreed it is ok and allowed me to drive away. They couldn't - however - remove the dangerous fail at that time from the system. I didn't have to tow it back for retest.

cheers for addition of common sense

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

...It isn't an offence to drive a car which is safe.

Of course it's not - but Joe Public is in no position to decide what's dangerous and what isn't.

Guy:Incognito

TheHappyChappy wrote: »

cheers for addition of common sense

The bonnet not closing properly isn't necessarily the same as the ops as yet unspecified issue. The back axle could be hanging off it for all we know.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Of course it's not - but Joe Public is in no position to decide what's dangerous and what isn't.

Of course Joe Public is in position to decide it.

As I've written above.
If your brakes fail, it's up to you to decide not to drive a car as it's dangerous.
When you fix the brakes, you can drive it again, as car in not dangerous anymore.
You don't need a confirmation from anyone...

Beside you are just presenting your opinion.

Fact are however saying, that it's illegal to drive dangerous car.
Noting illegal about driving a car which was dangerous and was fixed.

There is no law with procedure that car needs to be verified by anyone once it's fixed after being dangerous.

CiniO

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The bonnet not closing properly isn't necessarily the same as the ops as yet unspecified issue. The back axle could be hanging off it for all we know.

OP never asked if he can drive dangerous car.
He asked if he can drive a car after it's fixed.

Answer is - yes. Provided car is safe, has all paperwork (NCT, TAX, INsurance) and driver is licenced to drive it.

slimjimmc

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Of course it's not - but Joe Public is in no position to decide what's dangerous and what isn't.

No, but the law is clear. It's only an offence to drive a vehicle that has a dangerous defect, not had.
It would be up to the authorities to prove is dangerous.

A qualified motor mechanic/tyre mechanic is much better qualified than Joe Public and just as qualified as an NCT tester to determine if the repaired car is safe or not.

The issue of certifying the car is safe or not is a separate matter.

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

OP never asked if he can drive dangerous car.
He asked if he can drive a car after it's fixed.

Answer is - yes. Provided car is safe, has all paperwork (NCT, TAX, INsurance) and driver is licenced to drive it.

This is getting laughable.

The car failed it's NCT due to being dangerous. How in that case could it have a valid NCT cert?

slimjimmc

Henry Ford III wrote: »

This is getting laughable.

The car failed it's NCT due to being dangerous. How in that case could it have a valid NCT cert?

Easy, do the test before the due date. Even if you fail your current cert is still very valid until its expiry date.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

This is getting laughable.

The car failed it's NCT due to being dangerous. How in that case could it have a valid NCT cert?

Most reasonable people do their NCT before expiry of previous NCT disc.
If you fail your test, and vehicle gets "fail dangerous" it still doesn't mean that previous NCT disc is invalidated.
It's still valid, so once vehicle is fixed and not dangerous anymore, it can be driven.

rovoagho

Exactly. No need for the histrionics.

Henry Ford III

slimjimmc wrote: »

No, but the law is clear. It's only an offence to drive a vehicle that has a dangerous defect, not had.
It would be up to the authorities to prove is dangerous.

A qualified motor mechanic/tyre mechanic is much better qualified than Joe Public and just as qualified as an NCT tester to determine if the repaired car is safe or not.

The issue of certifying the car is safe or not is a separate matter.

Certain minor NCT failures require a simple inspection to pass.

Other more serious ones require a full retest to do so.

But you're suggesting that for the most serious failures where the NCT people have decided the vehicle was dangerous and couldn't be driven, absolutely anyone can decide it's fixed and is no longer dangerous?

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Certain minor NCT failures require a simple inspection to pass.

Other more serious ones require a full retest to do so.

All this is needed to pass the NCT.

But you're suggesting that for the most serious failures where the NCT people have decided the vehicle was dangerous and couldn't be driven, absolutely anyone can decide it's fixed and is no longer dangerous?

To pass the NCT, those defects will also need to be checked.

But as you said - if you present vehicle for NCT, while it still has previous NCT valid for another while, and it fails on minor or less minor thing, so it requires retest, then it needs to be retested to obtain next NCT cert. But old is still valid, so vehicle can be driven in the mean time.
If there is dangerous defect, then even though vehicle still has old NCT valid, it can not be driven, until it's fixed.


Law is simple - once vehicle is taxed, insured, and NCTed, and doesn't have any dangerous defects, it can be driven on public roads.

tin79

I scare myself saying this but I have to agree with Cinio. If you have a valid cert and fix the dangerous fault you have no issue. If you have no cert and fix the fault you can only be done for having no NCT cert.

If you have an NCT cert at any time but your car is dangerously defective you could be done for driving a car that's not roadworthy. NCT and true roadworthiness at any other time: They are two independent things really.

Now if you fail the NCT on a fail dangerous and drive it home anyway you might be adding wilful negligence to the situation.

The NCT is only on one day and a lot can happen in two years.

CiniO

tin79 wrote: »

I scare myself saying this but I have to agree with Cinio.

dr.fuzzenstein

CiniO wrote: »

That's incorrect.
There isn't such offence as "driving car with fail dangerous" sticker on it.

Driving car which is dangerous is offence though.

Once you fix the problem, car is not dangerous anymore and there is nothing stopping anyone from driving it.

I don't disagree with you for the sake of it, but that idea is so scary and, well, Oirish, that I simply don't want it to be true.
It's the typical "Ah be grand, begosh and begorrah" approach to everything here.
Car fails NCT because of dangerous brake or suspension defects, let's say hole in the brake line or loose/missing track rod ends.
So you bring the car down to Murphy's Garage, run by a complete waster.
He doesn't fix it properly and says "Ah, she'll be grand, just take her handy!"
So now the car is "certified" safe to drive, just hop on in and giver her a good old blast up the motorway.
And that is legal? If that is right, I have just lost the last scrap of respect for the law in Ireland that I might have had until now.
At the very least I would expect that this car cannot be driven anymore until certified safe by the NCT or a licensed garage.
Otherwise I can take in a car with fail dangerous, give it a few bashes with my hammer and say "off you go now, all fixed!"
Not saying that is what will happen, but there shouldn't even be the possibility for it.

slimjimmc

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Certain minor NCT failures require a simple inspection to pass.

Other more serious ones require a full retest to do so.

But you're suggesting that for the most serious failures where the NCT people have decided the vehicle was dangerous and couldn't be driven, absolutely anyone can decide it's fixed and is no longer dangerous?

Absolutely not.
That is your suggestion not mine. You are clearly failing to read what I wrote or choosing your own slant.
I said qualified people (such as qualified mechanics and tyre specialists) are able to determine what is safe or unsafe, not just NCT staff. They do it all the time, e.g every time they repair defective brakes they assess if their work is safe. Same with tyre specialists, they can tell you if your tyres are dangerous or not.

A car can also be certified safe by a chartered automotive engineer, they do it regularly with insurance repairs.

NCT staff can only determine that a car in its current condition is so unsafe that is cannot be driven from the the NCT centre.

corktina

So the NCT say the car is dangerous because the back axle is falling off and you fix it with some duct tape and decide it's safe and it's OK to drive it then?

No way, if it's been failed and declared dangerous it is not OK to drive it until it's passed a test. I imagine a Judge would take a dim view if you were brought up before him driving a fail dangerous vehicle

mgbgt1978

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

At the very least I would expect that this car cannot be driven anymore until certified safe by the NCT or a licensed garage.

A licensed garage ????
you can buy alcohol while they fix your car now ????


No such thing as a 'Licensed Garage' in this country Fuzz.

tin79

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I don't disagree with you for the sake of it, but that idea is so scary and, well, Oirish, that I simply don't want it to be true.
It's the typical "Ah be grand, begosh and begorrah" approach to everything here.
Car fails NCT because of dangerous brake or suspension defects, let's say hole in the brake line or loose/missing track rod ends.
So you bring the car down to Murphy's Garage, run by a complete waster.
He doesn't fix it properly and says "Ah, she'll be grand, just take her handy!"
So now the car is "certified" safe to drive, just hop on in and giver her a good old blast up the motorway.
And that is legal? If that is right, I have just lost the last scrap of respect for the law in Ireland that I might have had until now.
At the very least I would expect that this car cannot be driven anymore until certified safe by the NCT or a licensed garage.
Otherwise I can take in a car with fail dangerous, give it a few bashes with my hammer and say "off you go now, all fixed!"
Not saying that is what will happen, but there shouldn't even be the possibility for it.

I think you are going to a lot of extremes there really. Quite hyperbolic.

I think the point Cinio is making assumes the fault is genuinely fixed. not just half assed by some chancer. You are , IMO, just reading into it what you want to. Lets just say that if the issue is genuinely fixed then, as I said above, I agree with Cinio.

Criminal negligence by some garage or driver stupidity are different issues.

mgbgt1978

corktina wrote: »

So the NCT say the car is dangerous because the back axle is falling off and you fix it with some duct tape and decide it's safe and it's OK to drive it then?

No way, if it's been failed and declared dangerous it is not OK to drive it until it's passed a test. I imagine a Judge would take a dim view if you were brought up before him driving a fail dangerous vehicle

The law, and the NCT manual, state that 'you cannot drive the vehicle until it is repaired.....nothing more nothing less.
You cannot be charged with driving a dangerously defective vehicle if it is not defective at the time you are stopped.
Thats's the law corkie. Once the fault is fixed the car is allowed on the public highway.
If you can't fix the fault yourself you bring it to a garage. Either way once properly repaired the fault no longer exists and you can drive away.

CiniO

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I don't disagree with you for the sake of it, but that idea is so scary and, well, Oirish, that I simply don't want it to be true.
It's the typical "Ah be grand, begosh and begorrah" approach to everything here.
Car fails NCT because of dangerous brake or suspension defects, let's say hole in the brake line or loose/missing track rod ends.
So you bring the car down to Murphy's Garage, run by a complete waster.
He doesn't fix it properly and says "Ah, she'll be grand, just take her handy!"
So now the car is "certified" safe to drive, just hop on in and giver her a good old blast up the motorway.
And that is legal? If that is right, I have just lost the last scrap of respect for the law in Ireland that I might have had until now.
At the very least I would expect that this car cannot be driven anymore until certified safe by the NCT or a licensed garage.
Otherwise I can take in a car with fail dangerous, give it a few bashes with my hammer and say "off you go now, all fixed!"
Not saying that is what will happen, but there shouldn't even be the possibility for it.

See but all confusion in this thread comes from mixing two things.
NCT and roadworthiness.

NCT is just a legal requirement. Car must obtain NCT certificate every X years, and if it doesn't it can not be legally driven. It won't get a certificate until it fully adheres to NCT requirements.
All seems reasonable.

Other thing is roadworthiness.
Car might become not roadworthy or even dangerous anytime.
You might come this evening to your car and find out your brakes doesn't work. That's why completely irrespective of NCT, you are not allowed to drive dangerously defective car.

Sometimes driver might not be aware his car is dangerously defective, but that doesn't release him from responsibility. It's still illegal for him to drive dangerously defective car.
When such car goes for NCT, and they discover it's dangerously defective, in addition to refusing to issue NCT cert, they will advice owner that car is dangerously defective, and can not be legally driven. They are probably also obliged by internal NCT centre requirements, to call the Garda in case someone drives off a car which they just discovered was dangerously defective.

But it's still issue of roadworthiness and drivers responsibility for it.. They've done their job - refused NCT cert because car didn't fulfill requirements.
Making sure that car is roadworthy is always up to driver. When he fixes dangerous defect, he can drive legally.

In your example, probably responsibility would be shared between driver and mechanic who said "you'll be grand" even though car was still dangerously defective.

But I can't really see a need for requirement for a car to be checked by NCT after dangerous defect is removed.
In the end car could suffer 5 dangerous defects in 2 years between NCTs and they were fixed and no one had to check them afterwards.
Why then would you want a requirement for NCT to check if dangerous defect they discovered would need to be checked by them again before car can be driven on the road?

tin79

corktina wrote: »

So the NCT say the car is dangerous because the back axle is falling off and you fix it with some duct tape and decide it's safe and it's OK to drive it then?

No way, if it's been failed and declared dangerous it is not OK to drive it until it's passed a test. I imagine a Judge would take a dim view if you were brought up before him driving a fail dangerous vehicle

That's not being fixed though is it. A car being roadworthy on any day is not dictated by the opinion of the NCT on some other day. They are different issues. if its properly fixed, genuinely, then I cant see how its not road legal.

slimjimmc

corktina wrote: »

So the NCT say the car is dangerous because the back axle is falling off and you fix it with some duct tape and decide it's safe and it's OK to drive it then?

No way, if it's been failed and declared dangerous it is not OK to drive it until it's passed a test. I imagine a Judge would take a dim view if you were brought up before him driving a fail dangerous vehicle

Are you qualified to make that assessment?
You can only be hauled up for driving a currently dangerous vehicle, not one that was previously dangerous and has been properly repaired. Even then the Garda would have to produce evidence that the current state of the car is dangerous.
The legal obligation is, as always, on you to ensure your car is safe and if you aren't qualified to conduct safe repairs yourself you must employ someone who is.

If you done something as stupid as what you hypothesised above then you fully deserve the full weight of the law.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

So the NCT say the car is dangerous because the back axle is falling off and you fix it with some duct tape and decide it's safe and it's OK to drive it then?

No it's not, way you fixed it, didn't make it safe. It's still dangerous so you can't drive it.

No way, if it's been failed and declared dangerous it is not OK to drive it until it's passed a test. I imagine a Judge would take a dim view if you were brought up before him driving a fail dangerous vehicle

As I already mentioned - car is OK to drive once it has valid NCT, TAX, INSURANCE, and is roadworthy.
If car which still holds valid NCT cert, is tested and failed dangerous, it doesn't loose it's previous NCT cert. This is still valid.
It can not be driven at that moment, because it's not roadworthy (dangerous). But once issue is resolved, and car is roadworthy again, it can be driven.

You can not be brought up before judge for driving a vehicle which "failed dangerous" it's NCT, because it's not an offence. There is no law prohibiting driving vehicle which failed dangerous.

dr.fuzzenstein

tin79 wrote: »

I think you are going to a lot of extremes there really. Quite hyperbolic.

I think the point Cinio is making assumes the fault is genuinely fixed. not just half assed by some chancer. You are , IMO, just reading into it what you want to. Lets just say that if the issue is genuinely fixed then, as I said above, I agree with Cinio.

Criminal negligence by some garage or driver stupidity are different issues.

What bothers me is the half-arsed legislation (as usual).
It goes as far as "NCT says it's dangerous", so you must tow the car away then.
Step 2, fairydust
Step 3, you drive into the NCT center with your fully fixed car, with a big smile on your face.
Who fixed the car? Can any Joe Soap fix it? Who can say it's safe to drive now? There is no mention of that, so I might as well ask Mrs Murphy next door, she's 95 and blind. In the absence of any guidelines or legislation whatso-bloody-ever, that is a viable option.

CiniO

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

What bothers me is the half-arsed legislation (as usual).
It goes as far as "NCT says it's dangerous", so you must tow the car away then.
Step 2, fairydust
Step 3, you drive into the NCT center with your fully fixed car, with a big smile on your face.
Who fixed the car? Can any Joe Soap fix it? Who can say it's safe to drive now? There is no mention of that, so I might as well ask Mrs Murphy next door, she's 95 and blind. In the absence of any guidelines or legislation whatso-bloody-ever, that is a viable option.

What if your car becomes dangerously defective in the mean time between NCTs.
Say your car has no brakes, and you know it's dangerous to be driven so you get it towed to the garage.
Machanic fixes it, and tells you it's OK now.
Where is the place for inspection of NCT people here?
Where is the difference to OP's question except that you discovered it was dangerous not NCT crowd?

How does it work elsewhere?
If you bring dangerously defective car for TÜV, what happens then?

Henry Ford III

slimjimmc wrote: »

Absolutely not.
That is your suggestion not mine. You are clearly failing to read what I wrote or choosing your own slant.
I said qualified people (such as qualified mechanics and tyre specialists) are able to determine what is safe or unsafe, not just NCT staff. They do it all the time, e.g every time they repair defective brakes they assess if their work is safe. Same with tyre specialists, they can tell you if your tyres are dangerous or not.

A car can also be certified safe by a chartered automotive engineer, they do it regularly with insurance repairs.

NCT staff can only determine that a car in its current condition is so unsafe that is cannot be driven from the the NCT centre.

This is the nub of the issue.

A car is dangerous (NCT say so) but there's according to CiniO anyone can say it's fixed and good to go. I'd be more than confident that should such a scenario come in front of a judge the intent of the legislation would be enforced, regardless of potential weaknesses in it's drafting.

Theres no mention anywhere of a qualífied mechanic, and no mechanism for them to certify 'that the fault has been fixed, and that the car is now safe again.

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

What if your car becomes dangerously defective in the mean time between NCTs.
Say your car has no brakes, and you know it's dangerous to be driven so you get it towed to the garage.
Machanic fixes it, and tells you it's OK now.
Where is the place for inspection of NCT people here?
Where is the difference to OP's question except that you discovered it was dangerous not NCT crowd?

Then it's ok. The NCT isn't a perfect system.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

This is the nub of the issue.

A car is dangerous (NCT say so) but there's according to CiniO anyone can say it's fixed and good to go

I never said that.
Car is good to go, once it's fixed - not when someone decides it's good to go.

If you have a crash in dangerously defective vehicle, you will suffer consequences, no matter if NCT said it was dangerous or not, and no matter if mechanic said it was safe or not.
If you have a crash in roadworthy vehicle, you can't be taken responsible for driving dangerous vehicle, because you didn't do so.
You also can't be responsible for driving vehicle "marked by NCT as failed dangerous" as it's not illegal to drive a vehicle like that.

. I'd be more than confident that should such a scenario come in front of a judge the intent of the legislation would be enforced, regardless of potential weaknesses in it's drafting.

How could issue of driving roadworthy vehicle (which was dangerous but fixed) end up in front of the judge?
I compeltely can't see any reason to case like that ending in front of the judge.

Theres no mention anywhere of a qualífied mechanic, and no mechanism for them to certify 'that the fault has been fixed, and that the car is now safe again.

It's up to driver to make sure car he is driving is safe and roadworthy.
This obligation lies on driver every time he drives any vehicle.

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

I never said that.
Car is good to go, once it's fixed - not when someone decides it's good to go.

If you have a crash in dangerously defective vehicle, you will suffer consequences, no matter if NCT said it was dangerous or not, and no matter if mechanic said it was safe or not.
If you have a crash in roadworthy vehicle, you can't be taken responsible for driving dangerous vehicle, because you didn't do so.
You also can't be responsible for driving vehicle "marked by NCT as failed dangerous" as it's not illegal to drive a vehicle like that.


How could issue of driving roadworthy vehicle (which was dangerous but fixed) end up in front of the judge?
I compeltely can't see any reason to case like that ending in front of the judge.



It's up to driver to make sure car he is driving is safe and roadworthy.
This obligation lies on driver every time he drives any vehicle.

You're contradicting yourself, so I think I'll leave you to that.