The Links Thread

FixdePitchmark

bustercherry wrote: »

They don't have too - this has been discussed to death.

Some do now,.

bustercherry

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Let’s be honest here 99% of these calls to Lahinch are made by people who know full well they don’t have a GUI rate, but are hoping they’ll be given a discount.

And other elite courses. They'll all tell you the same.

If someone is a bit short because you have phoned up looking something cheaper than advertised and have no good justification; well don't expect world class customer service.

bustercherry

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Some do now,.

And that's their prerogative. They don't have to, so what's you point?

FixdePitchmark

bustercherry wrote: »

And other elite courses. They'll all tell you the same.

If someone is a bit short because you have phoned up looking something cheaper than advertised and have no good justification; well don't expect world class customer service.

There is justification - they get it at 95% + of other course - even better courses.

FixdePitchmark

bustercherry wrote: »

And that's their prerogative. They don't have to, so what's you point?

Well I don't disagree - you are right they don't have to.

But there is the right and wrong thing to do.

I personally would prefer if these clubs were not in the GUI - serious there. They are not buying into the ethos and spirit of a union. And many have questionable practices not in line with the games direction anyway. So exclude them.

bustercherry

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

There is justification - they get it at 95% + of other course - even better courses.

Get what?

The person on the other end of a phone probably has work to get on with. I'd hazard a guess, the problem is not how the information is delivered but the fact it's not what people want to hear.

You lads are the equivalent of golf course tire kickers

ShivasIrons

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Well I don't disagree - you are right they don't have to.

But there is the right and wrong thing to do.

I personally would prefer if these clubs were not in the GUI - serious there. They are not buying into the ethos and spirit of a union. And many have questionable practices not in line with the games direction anyway. So exclude them.

And I've made this point to you before, they give their courses free to the golfing union on a regular basis, why should they do anymore?

bustercherry

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Well I don't disagree - you are right they don't have to.

But there is the right and wrong thing to do.

I personally would prefer if these clubs were not in the GUI - serious there. They are not buying into the ethos and spirit of a union. And many have questionable practices not in line with the games direction anyway. So exclude them.

Like what?

FixdePitchmark

ShivasIrons wrote: »

And I've made this point to you before, they give their courses free to the golfing union on a regular basis, why should they do anymore?

Your entitled to your opinion. I don't think it is enough.

I'd put forward a motion to exclude about 4/5 of them.

Dwarf.Shortage

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Well I don't disagree - you are right they don't have to.

But there is the right and wrong thing to do.

I personally would prefer if these clubs were not in the GUI - serious there. They are not buying into the ethos and spirit of a union. And many have questionable practices not in line with the games direction anyway. So exclude them.

You would take away the members right to hold a handicap because they won't discount their green fees for you?

Jesus wept

FixdePitchmark

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

You would take away the members right to hold a handicap because they won't discount their green fees for you?

Jesus wept

No it is primarily the failure to provide reciprocal playing right. In particular they can play at opens and do at my club.

They have a few questionable other practices - but that is far more complex.

Keep it simple - reciprocal playing rights (opens) or out. In Dublin would be

Portmarnock
The Island
Royal Dublin

ShivasIrons

Consider a few points, let use Lahinch as an example, there are a couple of courses in Ennis nearby, how many rounds in the Ennis courses would you value for a round in Lahinch?


Is it 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 etc? It will be different for everyone, but let's say it's 5, you'd value 5 rounds at an average course for 1 at a world class course. The average course should be €30-€40 so why wouldn't lahinch be €150-€200?


Many Irish go to Spain, Portugal, US for golfing holidays and don't blink an eye at paying €70+ for average enough golf, so what's the problem for paying for better golf here?


Just because someone doesn't like the price and won't pay it doesn't mean the wrong price is being charged.

Dwarf.Shortage

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

No it is primarily the failure to provide reciprocal playing right. In particular they can play at opens and do at my club.

They have a few questionable other practices - but that is far more complex.

Keep it simple - reciprocal playing rights (opens) or out. In Dublin would be

Portmarnock
The Island
Royal Dublin

Your club are welcome to stop having opens though? They just want/need the revenue?

benny79

rooney30 wrote: »

To be honest , clubs like lahinch, Waterville etc have never entertained Gui rates , the rate was always the rate . So if , as you say down through the years , were persistently ringing looking for a rate that has never existed I’m not suprised the girl was a bit short with you .
The exception to this was last summer when concessionary rates was introduced because of the pandemic

Waterville has a GUI rate As Ive played it while on holidays. I rang once a year hardly persistent as I taught things might change and she would hardly remember. Manners cost nothing. last time I recall asking was a few years ago and I asked for GUI and green fee and was told it was fully booked for the 2 weeks (Easter holidays) with members only. Fair enough. When I was down there for the week there was hardly anyone on the course the whole week! hence why I considered bunking on! lol..

ShivasIrons

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion. I don't think it is enough.

I'd put forward a motion to exclude about 4/5 of them.

So by paying a golfing union subscription of less the €30, this gives you a right to get a discounted rate of more then that at clubs, even though the clubs get no financial help from said union?

FixdePitchmark

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Consider a few points, let use Lahinch as an example, there are a couple of courses in Ennis nearby, how many rounds in the Ennis courses would you value for a round in Lahinch?


Is it 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10 etc? It will be different for everyone, but let's say it's 5, you'd value 5 rounds at an average course for 1 at a world class course. The average course should be €30-€40 so why wouldn't lahinch be €150-€200?


Many Irish go to Spain, Portugal, US for golfing holidays and don't blink an eye at paying €70+ for average enough golf, so what's the problem for paying for better golf here?


Just because someone doesn't like the price and won't pay it doesn't mean the wrong price is being charged.

But if they are taking advantage of that practice - it completely alters the argument - particularly if they offer zero reduction.

There is genuinely no argument for me - you are in this arrangement or out- can't be a one way street.
And I'm particularly harsh on it - as the way they are carrying on , is classless , lacking decency and honesty.

Whiplash85

A simple solution to all this - they will charge what they want or whatever their hubris allows be it €200 or €250, 150 etc and then the market will decide if they want to pay it. Astute business models can read their markets and know their customer so I'm sure they will have no problem balancing the books when green light is given again.

FixdePitchmark

ShivasIrons wrote: »

So by paying a golfing union subscription of less the €30, this gives you a right to get a discounted rate of more then that at clubs, even though the clubs get no financial help from said union?

But they are benefiting from that 30 euro.

Dwarf.Shortage

benny79 wrote: »

Waterville has a GUI rate As Ive played it while on holidays. I rang once a year hardly persistent as I taught things might change and she would hardly remember. Manners cost nothing. last time I recall asking was a few years ago and I asked for GUI and green fee and was told it was fully booked for the 2 weeks (Easter holidays) with members only. Fair enough. When I was down there for the week there was hardly anyone on the course the whole week! hence why I considered bunking on! lol..

It is the same in RCD/Portrush etc, visitor golf is allowed only at certain times. If Monday-Tuesday are ring fenced for members golf you will be told the course is booked out for members whether the timesheet is rammed or nobody is playing.

It may be poor asset utilisation but on the flip side they probably don't want the course very busy every day and use these days as member golf / course recovery days.

Dwarf.Shortage

If you are going to throw them out of the GUI you would need to transfer the management of handicaps to a different organisation. To take away members right to maintain a handicap because they won't give up their timesheet to opens is completely disproportionate.

I assume you would have Milltown tarred with this brush? Or is it just about punishing clubs you want to play but aren't willing to pay rack rate for.

benny79

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

It is the same in RCD/Portrush etc, visitor golf is allowed only at certain times. If Monday-Tuesday are ring fenced for members golf you will be told the course is booked out for members whether the timesheet is rammed or nobody is playing.

It may be poor asset utilisation but on the flip side they probably don't want the course very busy every day and use these days as member golf / course recovery days.

I get and understand that. It was more the tone in her voice. I got the impression she was just saying it been smart.. Like what club books out its course for 2 weeks solid on a holiday period for members only. Anyway thats a different matter.

Bear in mind a course could have a rack rate of €250 and a GUI rate of €200 and obviously up to you to pay it which is fair enough. Its more the fact they dont entertain a GUI rate and are members of the GUI.

As their members can avail of other clubs GUI rate but we cant avail of theirs.

FixdePitchmark

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

If you are going to throw them out of the GUI you would need to transfer the management of handicaps to a different organisation. To take away members right to maintain a handicap because they won't give up their timesheet to opens is completely disproportionate.

I assume you would have Milltown tarred with this brush? Or is it just about punishing clubs you want to play but aren't willing to pay rack rate for.

I have paid rack rates and do.

It is actually principle. A union is a union.

benny79

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

If you are going to throw them out of the GUI you would need to transfer the management of handicaps to a different organisation. To take away members right to maintain a handicap because they won't give up their timesheet to opens is completely disproportionate.

I assume you would have Milltown tarred with this brush? Or is it just about punishing clubs you want to play but aren't willing to pay rack rate for.

I would tar all the clubs with the same brush if they are members of the GUI. The whole point of been a member of a club is for things like this.

bustercherry

benny79 wrote: »

I get and understand that. It was more the tone in her voice. I got the impression she was just saying it been smart.. Like what club books out its course for 2 weeks solid on a holiday period for members only. Anyway thats a different matter.

Bear in mind a course could have a rack rate of €250 and a GUI rate of €200 and obviously up to you to pay it which is fair enough. Its more the fact they dont entertain a GUI rate and are members of the GUI.

As their members can avail of other clubs GUI rate but we cant avail of theirs.

In reality it's not a GUI rate and nothing to do with the GUI, it's basically a local market price and using the holding of a valid membership as a way of enforcing it.

bustercherry

I've no problem with GUI affiliated course being forced to run a min number of open comps (and elite amateur comps must be included in that).

The problem is, most people assume that an open is a discounted green fee and the union cannot set the pricing/business models of affiliated courses; nor should they be dictating them.

benny79

It not just the GUI rate more the fact they dont have opens which is generally a way of members of other clubs to get to play other courses at a reduced rate. which you have to be GUI affiliated!

So you agree its ok for clubs to use the GUI for its members to be able to get a recognised HC and to play other courses (opens) at a reduced rate but not give anything back?

Take the European Club one of the best clubs in the country GUI affiliated no airs or graces. They hold opens and have a GUI rate all be it at selective times and dates etc Unbelievable welcome weather you're a movie star or Joe Soap.

That to me is what the GUI is about and one of the reasons I joined a club and have stayed a member over the years for experiences like this. I think Ive played the European club 4 times but all great days out.

Now you think a american or tourist gets that value? not a chance they pay 2/3 hundred. hence why its Golf Union of Ireland.

benny79

bustercherry wrote: »

I've no problem with GUI affiliated course being forced to run a min number of open comps (and elite amateur comps must be included in that).

The problem is, most people assume that an open is a discounted green fee and the union cannot set the pricing/business models of affiliated courses; nor should they be dictating them.

Agree but most Opens are discounted! but you have to be a GUI member to enter. Lahinch dont entertain any, as a GUI club. They could still dictate the GUI fee or open fee as The European and Waterville do.

DuckSlice

Whiplash85 wrote: »

A simple solution to all this - they will charge what they want or whatever their hubris allows be it €200 or €250, 150 etc and then the market will decide if they want to pay it. Astute business models can read their markets and know their customer so I'm sure they will have no problem balancing the books when green light is given again.

You are right, but their business model is slow to react to changes in the market. Other course reacted to the market and offered reduced rates.

I have nothing against Lahinch, but if they offered Green fees for 150 they would be in a lot better position now. What is the right price to charge is up to them ultimately, what people are willing to pay is not up to them so they need to find the balance. And the majority of Irish people will not pay 250.

If they put out a deal of 150 a green fee i would quite happily take it up, and i would have no problem getting a 4-ball to go. Probably lots of us here would be the same.

ShivasIrons

benny79 wrote: »

Agree but most Opens are discounted! but you have to be a GUI member to enter. Lahinch dont entertain any, as a GUI club. They could still dictate the GUI fee or open fee as The European and Waterville do.

The South of Ireland is an open competition and is held in Lahinch.

thewobbler

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I have paid rack rates and do.

It is actually principle. A union is a union.

Except your principles are exceptionally skewed in this case.

Ask the average club member in Ireland would they prefer their club had a weekly mid-week open, in which they can can compete, OR hosts a major amateur tournament each year that shuts the place entirely to members for the best of a week in high season.

You know as well as I do what the answe would be.