The Links Thread

thewobbler · 17-01-2021 10:48pm

By the way I’d also expect that the premier south west links and premier east coast links , will have the good sense not to race to the bottom, and will draw up a gentleman’s agreement along the lines of “we each have the right to charge whatever we choose, but it will never be less than €100”.

It’s what I’d do.

RoadRunner · 18-01-2021 11:16am

thewobbler wrote: »

It’s what I’d do.

But you wouldn't tell anyone because price fixing comes with criminal penalties such as large fines or imprisonment

DuckSlice · 18-01-2021 11:39am

I don't think they need to do any price fixing or anything as extreme as that. I think they need to realise they are selling a time slot on a sheet, getting 400 for a time slot as a 4ball is a lot better than getting zero for example. And i know once they half the green fee they need twice as many golfers, but they had no flexibility at all.

Only other links i contacted that didn't have much flexibility was RCD, but i think i might have been too late contacting them. They also done a group green fee but future purchases of that is stopped due to covid.

Id love a good game of links golf now with a decent bit of wind. Love the challenge of playing all the different shots links golf requires.
As soon as restrictions allow it im heading to County Sligo for a round, never played there before.

slave1 · 18-01-2021 1:16pm

etxp wrote: »

..
Out of interest what deal did you get in Enniscrone? I bet you got a 4ball for not far off the price lahinch wanted for one green fee?

Think something like €80 to play the 18 hole and 9 hole (twice) and we got grub in the clubhouse after the first round (not included in the €80)

DuckSlice · 18-01-2021 2:27pm

slave1 wrote: »

Think something like €80 to play the 18 hole and 9 hole (twice) and we got grub in the clubhouse after the first round (not included in the €80)

That's a great deal. I bet if Lahinch offered you 150 for the two that they would have had an extra 600-1000 in the bank now.

Seve OB · 18-01-2021 5:09pm

etxp wrote: »

That's a great deal. I bet if Lahinch offered you 150 for the two that they would have had an extra 600-1000 in the bank now.

god no they wouldn't........ they would thousands extra.... sure we would all flock down wouldn't we

ShivasIrons · 18-01-2021 5:12pm

What is the correct price for a world class course? One that is in the top 100 or so in the world?

Dwarf.Shortage · 18-01-2021 5:18pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

What is the correct price for a world class course? One that is in the top 100 or so in the world?

Obviously the market dynamic is never that simple, a course in the north west might be as good as a course elsewhere and have to charge far less to get people there. What would a game in Carne cost if it was transplanted to Bull Island and what would a game in Royal Dublin cost if it was in Belmullet?

But ignoring all of that I think if you had no tourists and the top tier tracks commanding the €250 green fees had to find a new market equilibrium with only Irish market, €120-150 is where I think that would be. Probably with less green fee golf and members paying higher subs but not giving up as much of their timesheet in exchange.

DuckSlice · 18-01-2021 5:21pm

Seve OB wrote: »

god no they wouldn't........ they would thousands extra.... sure we would all flock down wouldn't we

I meant your 4ball specifically

ShivasIrons wrote: »

What is the correct price for a world class course? One that is in the top 100 or so in the world?

The correct price is one that fills the timesheets.

willabur · 18-01-2021 5:38pm

etxp wrote: »

The correct price is one that fills the timesheets.

not if all that extra traffic means the product is degraded.

Correct price is the one that maximises the return while not damaging the product I would say

DuckSlice · 18-01-2021 5:47pm

willabur wrote: »

not if all that extra traffic means the product is degraded.

Correct price is the one that maximises the return while not damaging the product I would say

For sure, and I don't mean to imply they should let as many people out as possible. The club decide how many slots are available in the day, they should take into account how much traffic the course can handle. The price will dictate if they are filled.

ShivasIrons · 18-01-2021 5:48pm

etxp wrote: »

The correct price is one that fills the timesheets.

But wouldn't a €1 fee fill the timesheets?

DuckSlice · 18-01-2021 6:07pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

But wouldn't a €1 fee fill the timesheets?

The correct price is one that fills the timesheets and is in line with your business plan to meet your forecasted profits etc etc.

Obviously you don’t want to run at a loss.

blue note · 18-01-2021 7:13pm

If Lahinch were looking for €200-250 a round, they must have had no green fees this year considering you could have gotten three great courses in Donegal or Sligo for the cost of less than one Lahinch round. I can't understand how they could look at that and not do anything about it. The costs on those top courses must be enormous. I suspect they regret now not offering fourballs for something like €400 a line. They'd have had interest there and if they were concerned about ruining the course they could have limited the number of lines they offer at that price. This year must have done some damage to their reserves.

Dwarf.Shortage · 18-01-2021 7:28pm

I know multiple members in Lahinch and they were so busy that they brought in a rule a member could only introduce one guest at concessionary rates not the usual 3, this meant having twice as many members in each four ball but would have further reduced the green fee take. I suspect a lot of the members are not usually based in Lahinch year round but with widespread wfh they could decamp there this summer and the timesheets were rammed.

It is bizarre to me that they are crying in the press about not having any cash. If they want to keep their rack rate and do very little business so that the timesheet is free for members that is their absolute right. But to then not be happy there are no green fee golfers subsidising the running costs is very much a case of wanting to have their cake and eat it.

redhill · 18-01-2021 10:50pm

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I know multiple members in Lahinch and they were so busy that they brought in a rule a member could only introduce one guest at concessionary rates not the usual 3, this meant having twice as many members in each four ball but would have further reduced the green fee take. I suspect a lot of the members are not usually based in Lahinch year round but with widespread wfh they could decamp there this summer and the timesheets were rammed.

It is bizarre to me that they are crying in the press about not having any cash. If they want to keep their rack rate and do very little business so that the timesheet is free for members that is their absolute right. But to then not be happy there are no green fee golfers subsidising the running costs is very much a case of wanting to have their cake and eat it.

Don’t know if Lahinch do this or not but some clubs such as Portrush only all so many green fees a year playing with each member, think 12 is the number in Portrush...

DuckSlice · 19-01-2021 10:08am

redhill wrote: »

Don’t know if Lahinch do this or not but some clubs such as Portrush only all so many green fees a year playing with each member, think 12 is the number in Portrush...

Yea i think you are right, and the same in Portstewart I think. Funny enough Portstewart is more expensive than Portrush to bring a guest out.

Raisins · 19-01-2021 12:33pm

I played lahinch last summer and I didn’t love the atmosphere to be honest. Ballybunion, Tralee and the Sligo / Donegal courses were more welcoming.

Luckily I wasn’t paying €250 but if I was I think I’d have felt shaken down by the experience. The poor mouthing in national newspapers about how little money they have was nauseating.

benny79 · 19-01-2021 1:04pm

I tried to play Lahinch loads of times over the years. As I used to holiday a lot down there. I was never entertained even as a GUI member. The girl wasn't even pleasant on the phone about. Just put it down as a air of snobbery. Loads of times was told course was full. Yet when down there the course was empty even the car park.

I contemplated just grabbing my clubs and just going out.. lol.. Id mainly be there over the Easter. Lost interest over the years then as I have played much nicer and friendlier courses. So they can shove it.

blue note · 19-01-2021 1:15pm

I'm surprised at hearing that lahinch is a snobby club. I'd have thought that it was essentially a regular members club that happens to be one of the top courses in Ireland so would have huge income and heaps of Americans and all of that, but I'd have thought that the members would be pretty much the same as most of the clubs in Ireland.

From what I've heard about the likes of eniscrone, strand Hill, ballybunion,etc they typically are aware that they have a world class course and are probably a bit smug about that, but are generally really nice clubs. I'd be proud that tramore and corballis are very nice courses. Nothing wrong with appreciating your course.

bustercherry · 19-01-2021 1:39pm

benny79 wrote: »

I tried to play Lahinch loads of times over the years. As I used to holiday a lot down there. I was never entertained even as a GUI member. The girl wasn't even pleasant on the phone about. Just put it down as a air of snobbery. Loads of times was told course was full. Yet when down there the course was empty even the car park.

I contemplated just grabbing my clubs and just going out.. lol.. Id mainly be there over the Easter. Lost interest over the years then as I have played much nicer and friendlier courses. So they can shove it.

I'm assuming you offered the going rate?

Otherwise going by this board (and from what I was told by a few other clubs) you were probably the umpteenth person that had called her that day looking a reduced green fee. After a while i'm sure they do get pissed off with the same out nonsense.

slave1 · 19-01-2021 2:01pm

bustercherry wrote: »

I'm assuming you offered the going rate?

Otherwise going by this board (and from what I was told by a few other clubs) you were probably the umpteenth person that had called her that day looking a reduced green fee. After a while i'm sure they do get pissed off with the same out nonsense.

Whoever is on the end of the phone should not get pissed off, it's literally their job to take the hard calls and get on with it

benny79 · 19-01-2021 2:04pm

bustercherry wrote: »

I'm assuming you offered the going rate?

Otherwise going by this board (and from what I was told by a few other clubs) you were probably the umpteenth person that had called her that day looking a reduced green fee. After a while i'm sure they do get pissed off with the same out nonsense.

I dont recall ever been given a rate but I would of said I was a GUI member and asked for that rate. As they are part of the GUI. They should have a GUI rate and hold opens. I know they dont and its bad form IMO. But like everything in life thats their choice like its my choice to be able to express my experience and opinion. Sorry if it offends.

The fact they dont hold opens has been decussed on this forum loads.

I do actually know a member but like mentioned above its more of a holiday course for him as his wife is from that neck of the woods and he would go down a couple of times a year. He loves the place.

Dwarf.Shortage · 19-01-2021 2:05pm

slave1 wrote: »

Whoever is on the end of the phone should not get pissed off, it's literally their job to take the hard calls and get on with it

It’s their job to take bookings, not explain to 10 people a day that the price is the price.

blue note · 19-01-2021 2:11pm

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

It’s their job to take bookings, not explain to 10 people a day that the price is the price.

Who should do that then? Lots of clubs offer gui rates, so the club will get those phone calls.

Dwarf.Shortage · 19-01-2021 2:18pm

blue note wrote: »

Who should do that then? Lots of clubs offer gui rates, so the club will get those phone calls.

Let’s be honest here 99% of these calls to Lahinch are made by people who know full well they don’t have a GUI rate, but are hoping they’ll be given a discount.

willabur · 19-01-2021 2:18pm

its called customer service. If a club chooses to allow people to walk in off the street and play on their course then the least they should do is be civil to each and everyone of those people who walk in even if it means breaking bad news to them

rooney30 · 19-01-2021 2:24pm

benny79 wrote: »

I tried to play Lahinch loads of times over the years. As I used to holiday a lot down there. I was never entertained even as a GUI member. The girl wasn't even pleasant on the phone about. Just put it down as a air of snobbery. Loads of times was told course was full. Yet when down there the course was empty even the car park.

I contemplated just grabbing my clubs and just going out.. lol.. Id mainly be there over the Easter. Lost interest over the years then as I have played much nicer and friendlier courses. So they can shove it.

To be honest , clubs like lahinch, Waterville etc have never entertained Gui rates , the rate was always the rate . So if , as you say down through the years , were persistently ringing looking for a rate that has never existed I’m not suprised the girl was a bit short with you .
The exception to this was last summer when concessionary rates was introduced because of the pandemic

bustercherry · 19-01-2021 3:22pm

benny79 wrote: »

I dont recall ever been given a rate but I would of said I was a GUI member and asked for that rate. As they are part of the GUI. They should have a GUI rate and hold opens. I know they dont and its bad form IMO. But like everything in life thats their choice like its my choice to be able to express my experience and opinion. Sorry if it offends.

The fact they dont hold opens has been decussed on this forum loads.

I do actually know a member but like mentioned above its more of a holiday course for him as his wife is from that neck of the woods and he would go down a couple of times a year. He loves the place.

They don't have too - this has been discussed to death.

FixdePitchmark · 19-01-2021 3:24pm

rooney30 wrote: »

To be honest , clubs like lahinch, Waterville etc have never entertained Gui rates , the rate was always the rate . So if , as you say down through the years , were persistently ringing looking for a rate that has never existed I’m not suprised the girl was a bit short with you .
The exception to this was last summer when concessionary rates was introduced because of the pandemic

Would the girl not need to be an expert at these calls - because 95% + of courses offer a reduced rate than the rack rate.

I think we are beating around the bush a bit - as well as unrealistic US rate some courses - we could name maybe 10 - some have an stounding arrogance around them too.

As someone mentioned earlier -there will be limited sympathy for some of them.

If Portmarnock were willing to accept the reality and change their tune - you are in a very strange place in Irish golf if you are positioning yourself above Portmarnock.

The Links Thread

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