PPU ammo

TriggerPL

Any lads using this ammo or heard of it , seems cheap

Cass

Muck. Plain and simple.

Seen a lad fail the Hcap at 100 yards as the stuff would not group 4" with three shots.

He changed ammo and passed it.

TriggerPL

Cass wrote: »

Muck. Plain and simple.

Seen a lad fail the Hcap at 100 yards as the stuff would not group 4" with three shots.

He changed ammo and passed it.

Haha that terrible just seen them , and there cheap , but for obvious reason

Cass

Some dealers are pawning it off as "good value". Well here is a small tip, when a dealer offers you a bag, seriously a bag, of bullets. Think, then tell him to feck off. Even if it comes free.

The only useful thing a bag of this stuff is good for is using it as cosh. Even then you might miss the target. now i know some lads will be along to say it's grand for the price, and for plinking, etc. Frankly i don't spend too much time plinking. It's either hunting in which case i want a bullet that will hit the target or if it is target then i'm going premium ammo, not that crap. Plus even for plinking, what good is it when you cannot group or trust the results.

So the only benefit, and i'm stretching the meaning of that word, is for breaking in a barrel.

TriggerPL

Cass wrote: »

Some dealers are pawning it off as "good value". Well here is a small tip, when a dealer offers you a bag, seriously a bag, of bullets. Think, then tell him to feck off. Even if it comes free.

The only useful thing a bag of this stuff is good for is using it as cosh. Even then you might miss the target. now i know some lads will be along to say it's grand for the price, and for plinking, etc. Frankly i don't spend too much time plinking. It's either hunting in which case i want a bullet that will hit the target or if it is target then i'm going premium ammo, not that crap. Plus even for plinking, what good is it when you cannot group or trust the results.

So the only benefit, and i'm stretching the meaning of that word, is for breaking in a barrel.

Yea I just seen them there tonight for the first time I'm not a big fan of cheap ammo anyway , I won't even put Remington's down my gun . Just curious as I've never heard of them that's all

Dian Cecht

According to a friend of mine that uses a lot of the stuff reckons that the stuff that comes in bags is very poor accuracy wise but the stuff in actual boxes is pretty good. He shoots a lot on the continent and he said the stuff in bags there is a lot cheaper than the stuff in boxes.

Cass

Box or bag makes no difference. It's muck.

It only sells because off the price. Mark it up to Federal, or even Hornady prices and see what people choose.

TriggerPL

Dian Cecht wrote: »

According to a friend of mine that uses a lot of the stuff reckons that the stuff that comes in bags is very poor accuracy wise but the stuff in actual boxes is pretty good. He shoots a lot on the continent and he said the stuff in bags there is a lot cheaper than the stuff in boxes.

Sorry did you say something !

Dian Cecht

Cass wrote: »

Box or bag makes no difference. It's muck.

It only sells because off the price. Mark it up to Federal, or even Hornady prices and see what people choose.

There actually is a difference Now, I'm not saying the boxed stuff is ultra accurate but it's OK for what it costs.

TriggerPL wrote: »

Sorry did you say something !

:pac:

Use the "ignore poster" option if you're that childish

Vegeta

Dian Cecht wrote: »

There actually is a difference

What's the difference do you know?

TriggerPL

Dian Cecht wrote: »

There actually is a difference Now, I'm not saying the boxed stuff is ultra accurate but it's OK for what it costs.



:pac:

Use the "ignore poster" option if you're that childish

Be the holy that the best invention ever , where do I press that button !!

And why u change ur reply to cass !!

Vegeta

Lads, play the post not the man

To ignore a user click their username and press the "Add user to Ignore List" option

Cass

Dian Cecht wrote: »

You have your opinion & I have my experience of it

You know what they say about making assumptions. I am speaking of not just what i seen, but what i've experienced. Plus the condescending tone is not necessary.

There actually is a difference Now, I'm not saying the boxed stuff is ultra accurate but it's OK for what it costs.

It's not ultra accurate, hell it's not even accurate. However if you prefer to feed crap in your rifle then have at it. I am not saying it to change your mind. The OP asked for opinions, and i gave him mine. The price reflects the quality. Pay peanuts, ya get monkeys.

However if you;d like to show us the quality of it via pictures of groups, etc. and the distances they were shot at then i'd be interested to see myself.

Dian Cecht

Vegeta wrote: »

What's the difference do you know?

Apart from some comes in 100 round bags & seems to group very badly & some comes in 20 round boxes & shoots OK I'm not sure. My buddy in Germany told me the bagged stuff there is cheaper than the boxed stuff yet from what I've heard here the bagged stuff costs the same as the boxed stuff

PPU is not premium ammo and the price reflects that nor am I claiming it is. Same as some of the cheap ammo in .223. .22lr & all other mainstream calibres really. It goes bang and will hit the target but you won't win any medals with it As will all ammo you get what you pay for.

I'll ask my buddy in Germany he might know if there is a difference in the actual quality of production or components used between what gets put in bags or boxes.

Eo1n8wrd

What would be peoples general opinion of good quality ammunition brands?
Hornady?
Nosler?
Winchester?
Remington?
What do ye use and why?
Is it price that dictates or availability or is it how it performs in your rifle?
I know when I go to an air-rifle range in the UK some lads there spend a lot of time choosing a pellet that they feel performs best and sticking to that pellet for their rifle from then on.

Dian Cecht

Cass wrote: »

You know what they say about making assumptions. I am speaking of not just what i seen, but what i've experienced. Plus the condescending tone is not necessary.

It's not ultra accurate, hell it's not even accurate. However if you prefer to feed crap in your rifle then have at it. I am not saying it to change your mind. The OP asked for opinions, and i gave him mine. The price reflects the quality. Pay peanuts, ya get monkeys.

However if you;d like to show us the quality of it via pictures of groups, etc. and the distances they were shot at then i'd be interested to see myself.

Fair enough you've used it or seen it used too.

For the record, as you seem to constantly assume I'm being condescending, to clarify for the future, unless I put :rolleyes: at the end of my post or comment you can safely assume that I am not actually being condescending.

What do you consider to be accurate enough so? I've seen a friends .243 group a solid inch at 100 yards with it. Most lads I know are happy with a 2 inch group at 100 yards when stalking.

I never said it was ultra accurate or will mean you don't need to buy premium ammo if you want decent results. I did say it was budget ammo with budget accuracy. It's cheap, goes bang and knocks over targets or makes holes in paper. Sometimes that's all you want. Not everyone can reload or wants to pay premium ammo prices for a bit of informal plinking or is always expecting benchrest accuracy.

So, to sum up, it's cheap, accuracy is OK (for the average shooter) but if you want to utilise the accuracy of your rifle or win a competition or a bet with your buddies use premium ammo.

Cass

Eo1n8wrd wrote: »

What would be peoples general opinion of good quality ammunition brands?

Good quality ammo is just that. Good quality. Whether it works well in your particular rifle is another matter, but that is why there are multiple weights, grans, and sizes. However the key factor is the manufacturer tries and tests them to find the key combination. This reliability, and "guarantee" of performance is what ensures a top quality brand from the muck.

Is it price that dictates or availability or is it how it performs in your rifle?

For me it's performance. Regardless of price i want something that does what i want. If it's 1€10 a box or €50 a box makes no difference to me. I don't buy the expensive stuff just because it costs more. I buy it because it has performed and the results are repeatable.

I know when I go to an air-rifle range in the UK some lads there spend a lot of time choosing a pellet that they feel performs best and sticking to that pellet for their rifle from then on.

Exactly. I go through many different rounds even in the same calibers. To find which works the best and which to stick with until something new comes out.

Dian Cecht wrote: »

For the record, as you seem to constantly assume I'm being condescending, to clarify for the future, unless I put :rolleyes: at the end of my post or comment you can safely assume that I am not actually being condescending.

When you say:

Dian Cecht wrote:

You have your opinion & I have my experience of it

You are making a distinct difference between what you perceive as just my opinion against what you have actually done. IOW - "You know better because you've actually used it".

What do you consider to be accurate enough so? I've seen a friends .243 group a solid inch at 100 yards with it. Most lads I know are happy with a 2 inch group at 100 yards when stalking.

If they are hapopy with 2moa then more power to them. To put in the most simple of terms that;s 4" at 200 yards which is the difference between a hit and miss. An injured animal and a dead one. Too big a margin for my liking.

I consider 1 MOA at any distance as a minimum standard to be classed as accurate. That is not to be confused with precision. There is a difference between accuracy and precision. Both are needed.

All my rifles shoot a minimum of 1 MOA, but mostly less than that. This is down to adjusting the rifle, and testing ammo to get these results. The other aspect of good ammo is once i know what the gun can do then i am much more confident in my shooting because i don't worry if the ammo will actually hit what and where i aim at.

I never said it was ultra accurate .........

Never said you did. I highlighted the fact that you cannot call it accurate let alone ultra accurate. Highlighting it's poor performance.

..............or will mean you don't need to buy premium ammo if you want decent results. I did say it was budget ammo with budget accuracy. It's cheap, goes bang and knocks over targets or makes holes in paper. Sometimes that's all you want.

I want the hole to be where i aim. Not "budget closeness".

Not everyone can reload or wants to pay premium ammo prices for a bit of informal plinking or is always expecting benchrest accuracy.

Reloading has nothing to do with this. We have been shooting for decades without reloading and all the ammo i use is factory ammo. All more than capable of matching my target rifle out to 300 yards in terms of accuracy, because i put the time into testing rather than through any old muck down the barrel.

As for ""informal plinking". Lets fact it. If a lad just wants to punch hole sin paper without any concern for grouping, performance, etc. then this is the stuff for ya. If you actually want to have some measurable results, with repeatable performance go for something else.

So, to sum up, it's cheap, accuracy is OK (for the average shooter) but if you want to utilise the accuracy of your rifle or win a competition or a bet with your buddies use premium ammo.

Exactly.

Once again this is not a "everyone stay away from thsi stuff". This is me saying i wouldn't touch it. If someone listens to that - fair enough, if they ignore it - fair enough, and if they try it and make up their own mind - fair enough.

Dian Cecht

Cass,

I refer you to my earlier statement to help you realise when I am actually being condescending rather than you assuming I am. I can kinda see why you think that comment was condescending but I did add a which was meant to show it was a bit of humour.

Lots of lads, myself included, wouldn't shoot deer at 200 yards. Max would be 80-120 yards as we're mainly shooting in woodland, with open sights. Therefore, we don't need the sort of accuracy you need.

Sometimes it's not about extreme accuracy or small groups it's about having fun and if you can do this with cheap ammo, why not

Not to say I don't often crave accuracy, as I do, but if I do I wouldn't be using PPU ammo for it.

Cass

My average deer shot is between 35 - 111 yards. I would say i've no problem shooting one out to 300 yards or even 600 yards for that matter, but as i never have, have no intention of doing, and the land i shoot does not allow for such a shot i won't. However the knowledge that if i wanted to i could is a confidence builder as well as reassuring.

I have spent the last 10 years involved in some form of target shooting. From Benchrest to FTR. It all requires extreme accuracy and repeatability. As such i cannot help but demand and get the best of out each gun i use. It;s also the same reason i opt for high mag scopes on my rifles when a much smaller/lesser mag one will suffice. Lastly it is also the reason i go for the better ammo.

All i should have to do is pick up my gun, and walk out with it. not wonder if it's going to hit, miss, injure, be off, etc, etc. Different strokes for different folks.

Dian Cecht

Cass wrote: »

Different strokes for different folks.

That's it alright

TriggerPL

Dian Cecht wrote: »

That's it alright

Cass it not the only person that feels ur condescending , ur suppose to be a man a lot older and wiser than us here or so u say , so why the need for expressional faces at all , let's face it u have ruffled a couple of member feathers mine included in this post and others , with ur simple disrespect for others . U want to be welcomed like other members ere with a bit of respect , then start to show some . Loose the condescending faces is a gud place to start .

Now as for bullets . If I can't put 3 bullets inside a inch square then they are not the bullets for me , and even at that I would fire a box nearly to make sure they are consistent , and there is no flyers.

anyone that is happy with a two inch grouping , really shouldn't be shooting , in a head and neck shot at 200 yards it the difference between a kill and a miss fair enough animal is dead or it's not . But in a heart and lung shot it's the difference between a deer been killed or wounded and running off suffering .

And that is unacceptable .

TriggerPL

Sometimes it's not about extreme accuracy or small groups it's about having fun and if you can do this with cheap ammo, why not

Can u explain this in more detail ? When is it about having fun

Tommy87

Ok so........ Some actual feedback

Remington 700 .22-250
100 yards

1st picture:
PPU ammo 55grain soft point. 5 shot group. €18 a box. 90cents a shot.

2nd picture:
Norma ammo 50 grain vmax. 5 shot group. €40 a box. €2 a shot.

TriggerPL

Tommy87 wrote: »

Ok so........ Some actual feedback

Remington 700 .22-250
100 yards

1st picture:
PPU ammo 55grain soft point. 5 shot group. €18 a box. 90cents a shot.

2nd picture:
Norma ammo 50 grain vmax. 5 shot group. €40 a box. €2 a shot.

Thank you at 100 yards the ppu ammo does alright , have you tryed it at any further distanced do u feel u would take it out into the Feild and shoot it .

Norma are the mutts Nutts !!

cookimonster

Tommy87, in the 1st pic what are the three black objects to the left of centre bulls eye (lead) and the material between them and the paper, just curious.
Thanks CM

TriggerPL

cookimonster wrote: »

Tommy87, what are the three black objects to the left of centre bulls eye (lead) and the material between them and the paper, just curious.
Thanks CM

Yea I have that same question

Tommy87

cookimonster wrote: »

Tommy87, in the 1st pic what are the three black objects to the left of centre bulls eye (lead) and the material between them and the paper, just curious.
Thanks CM

Do u mean the little black dots all around the group??

Dian Cecht

TriggerPL wrote: »

Cass it not the only person that feels ur condescending ,.

I assume, which is always a mistake I know, that you do too.

TriggerPL wrote: »

ur suppose to be a man a lot older and wiser than us here or so u say ,.

I don't know how old you are but I assume, which is always a mistake I know, that your not as old, I won't be condescending and say you're not as wise, as me.

TriggerPL wrote: »

so why the need for expressional faces at all ,.

I explained that in a previous post. I'm sure you can figure it out.

TriggerPL wrote: »

let's face it u have ruffled a couple of member feathers mine included in this post and others , with ur simple disrespect for others . .

I may have ruffled a few feathers as I don't agree with your opinions but that's real life for you. Not everyone thinks your always right.

TriggerPL wrote: »

U want to be welcomed like other members ere with a bit of respect , then start to show some . .

Not too bothered about being welcomed, or liked for that matter. I came here to discuss & learn about shooting not to spend my time answering silly posts like this one.

TriggerPL wrote: »

Loose the condescending faces is a gud place to start ..

I haven't used one yet (this one is "confused by the way)

TriggerPL wrote: »

Now as for bullets . If I can't put 3 bullets inside a inch square then they are not the bullets for me , and even at that I would fire a box nearly to make sure they are consistent , and there is no flyers..

Great, back on topic at last.

That's great. Your dead right. I disagree though, for the reason I posted in a previous post.

TriggerPL wrote: »

anyone that is happy with a two inch grouping , really shouldn't be shooting ,.

Why? Never had a problem humanely killing what I aim at. I posted earlier that I shoot to a max of 120 yards, with open sights, and I generally get a first round humane kill. And if I don't I have access to a tracking dog.

TriggerPL wrote: »

in a head and neck shot at 200 yards it the difference between a kill and a miss fair enough animal is dead or it's not . But in a heart and lung shot it's the difference between a deer been killed or wounded and running off suffering .

And that is unacceptable .

But I told you in a previous post & again in this one I don't shoot much past 120 yards. So why do I need to worry about grouping at 200 yards?

Dian Cecht

TriggerPL wrote: »

Sometimes it's not about extreme accuracy or small groups it's about having fun and if you can do this with cheap ammo, why not

Can u explain this in more detail ? When is it about having fun

In this instance I was referring to informal plinking with friends.

Hunting is fun too but all due respect is afforded to the quarry, no matter what it is, as to do anything else is as you said "unacceptable".

Dian Cecht

Tommy87 wrote: »

Ok so........ Some actual feedback

Remington 700 .22-250
100 yards

1st picture:
PPU ammo 55grain soft point. 5 shot group. €18 a box. 90cents a shot.

2nd picture:
Norma ammo 50 grain vmax. 5 shot group. €40 a box. €2 a shot.

Nice shooting!

Tommy87

TriggerPL wrote: »

Thank you at 100 yards the ppu ammo does alright , have you tryed it at any further distanced do u feel u would take it out into the Feild and shoot it .

Norma are the mutts Nutts !!

No, I only had an hour spare after work this evening. I'll take it out farther tomorow maybe if I get a chance. Norma ammo works well in it alright!

TriggerPL

Tommy87 wrote: »

No, I only had an hour spare after work this evening. I'll take it out farther tomorow maybe if I get a chance. Norma ammo works well in it alright!

Cheers lad would be great to see what try really can do

cookimonster

Bought theses a good while back @ €18.00 per 20. At the time I was zeroed in with Remi Core Lokt (spelling ?) €35 per 20. They grouped well on paper but where a disaster to chamber, as if they where the wrong size. I had previously tried out various brands and grains with no problems. Now I hate to part with things but 22 of these where gifted to my mate for his .243.
Today my medicines are Federal 100gr SP (the Remi's where great but not consistently stocked)

Dian Cecht

cookimonster wrote: »

Bought theses a good while back @ €18.00 per 20. At the time I was zeroed in with Remi Core Lokt (spelling ?) €35 per 20. They grouped well on paper but where a disaster to chamber, as if they where the wrong size. I had previously tried out various brands and grains with no problems. Now I hate to part with things but 22 of these where gifted to my mate for his .243.
Today my medicines are Federal 100gr SP (the Remi's where great but not consistently stocked)

Was it a factory or a custom barrel?

cookimonster

It's a Marlin Xs7 with factory barrel, never happened before or since. To be honest unless someone gifted me a few rounds I am in no hurry to try them again even at the current price.

One shot on kill

What's the size of the target for the hcap at 100 yards and 200yards.

cookimonster

As per web site:
The Range Test requires the candidate to group three shots within a four-inch bull target from the prone position at 100 metres. If successful at the grouping stage, candidates proceed to fire six shots on a deer-shaped target – two rounds in the prone position at 100 metres, two rounds sitting or kneeling at 60 metres and two rounds standing at 40 metres.

The deer shape target I got hold of has a vitals area indicated over the boiler room which fits just into a A4 sheet of paper in landscape (wider than height)

One shot on kill

Any idea where I'm going with this.

cookimonster

This is an actual HCAP target trimed and mounted on board. You can see the outline of the target area marked around the vitals.

One shot on kill

Lads I'm not on either side. But I see where Dian cecht is coming for with the ammo and informal plinking.

And I can also see were every one else is coming from as regards accuracy. To be honest I like the best of both worlds. Use good ammo when hunting but when just looking for practice then cheaper stuff is ok for fundamentals. I personally would like more trigger time but hornady which I use is a bit expensive for sticking in paper. But it has to be used and tested and its preformance recorded.

But if the ppu is used and can group in 2 inch on a 4 inch plate for hcap then why not use it. Because 4inch is the acceptable level at 100 which is 4moa (I think ).

I personally like my rounds to bit where I'm pointing not a couple of inchs away for hunting definitly. I always told my self if I can hit a clay pidgeon at 1-2-300 yards then I'm laughing.

Dian Cecht

cookimonster wrote: »

It's a Marlin Xs7 with factory barrel, never happened before or since. To be honest unless someone gifted me a few rounds I am in no hurry to try them again even at the current price.

Interesting.

Never seen one of those. Sometimes American rifles & European ammo & vice versa don't like each other, for want of a better way of putting it.

meathstevie

On a side note, are Marlin full bore barrels and actions not Japanese made ?

wexfordman2

cookimonster wrote: »

As per web site:
The Range Test requires the candidate to group three shots within a four-inch bull target from the prone position at 100 metres. If successful at the grouping stage, candidates proceed to fire six shots on a deer-shaped target – two rounds in the prone position at 100 metres, two rounds sitting or kneeling at 60 metres and two rounds standing at 40 metres.

The deer shape target I got hold of has a vitals area indicated over the boiler room which fits just into a A4 sheet of paper in landscape (wider than height)

The deer target shot so, its just to ensure you hit within the area marked, or do they expect similar grouping ?

Thinking of going for hcp this year, so need to get a bit of practice in, I hardly ever take a standing or kneeling shot at deer.

cookimonster

meathstevie wrote: »

On a side note, are Marlin full bore barrels and actions not Japanese made ?

Not sure on that, reputed to be American through & through, now owned by Remi.

"Thinking of going for hcp this year, so need to get a bit of practice in, I hardly ever take a standing or kneeling shot at deer."


Going to give it a go myself. The standing and kneeling shots can be done off sticks while the prone shot can be done with bipods, bags etc.

"US rifles & Euro ammunition"

Could be, but US shooters aren't adverse to using Eastern bloc ammo and many forum discussions rate PPU brass both on quality and cost for reloading.

Vulture 1

I mostily go for neck shoots and found them grand. Max range would be 150.

I shot two fallow males last year with them had to take a chest shot as my shooting position was not as steady as i like. I found them great to kill comparied to 100 g federal power shok. Hear they have softer lead or thinner jacket than federal so they perform better on fallow size animals when taking chest shots.

My guns a .243 tikka and i did experience tight chambering. They were hold a inch group for 3 shots at 100yards