Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

conorh91

Muahahaha wrote: »

Oh it would happen in the private sector. Are you really telling me if there was a board meeting of senior managers and the CEO gave a specific instruction NOT to do something but six of those managers directly convened his order (and this is the Gardai so it does carry the weight of an order rather than a suggestion) that the CEO wouldn't feel insubordinated and take action against them ?

I'm sure there disciplinary action would be likely, but you initially claimed they'd be fired or the CEO would resign.

It is certainly easier to sack an employee in the private sector than it is to sack most public servants. But employment legislation and the approach of the Workplace Relations Bodies have narrowed the gap to the point where it can difficult and risky to dismiss almost any permanent employee, and many fixed-term contract employees, be they in the public or private sector.

However, Gardaí are excluded from the Unfair Dismissals Acts. Therefore, it is significantly easier to dismiss a Garda than it is to dismiss a permanent employee in the private sector.

A second reason why dismissals are so rare both in the public and private sector is because of the obvious attrition of human capital and experience associated with a culture of dismissals over once-off trasngressions.

People exaggerate the amount of firings that occur in the private sector. I don't know whether this happens deliberately, or people genuinely believe that dismissing employees is so easy. Either way, it's mistaken.

Muahahaha

I read yesterday that in the Fennelly investigation into Callinan's sacking three witnesses who had already given evidence to the investigation last July were recalled again by Fennelly as the evidence they gave directly conflicted with evidence of other participants. According to FF allegations one of the three recalled was Enda Kenny and he has refused to deny it thus far.

If true this really is the scandal that keeps on giving

_Kaiser_

And in the latest twist to this story...

The report into the resignation of Martin Callinan as Garda Commissioner has been delayed indefinitely.
Former Supreme Court justice Nial Fennelly says he cannot proceed with his report because of the Ian Bailey case.

In a letter to the Taoiseach, Justice Fennelly says that case is "inextricably linked" to the secret Garda recordings which caused Mr Callinan to resign.

Nothing at all to do with an election on the horizon and the bad light this report would cast FG and possibly Enda himself in I'm sure...

nice_guy80

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And in the latest twist to this story...



Nothing at all to do with an election on the horizon and the bad light this report would cast FG and possibly Enda himself in I'm sure...

Talk about burying an investigation

conorh91

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And in the latest twist to this story...

Nothing at all to do with an election on the horizon and the bad light this report would cast FG and possibly Enda himself in I'm sure...

The jury is still hearing evidence in Ian Bailey's civil action, and clearly there is a concern that publication of the Fennelly report would prejudice their decision.

The election is over a year away. Ian Bailey's civil action will be disposed of in the coming weeks.

It has been known from the outset that the Fennelly investigation would enquire into Ian Bailey's dealings with Gardaí. This was welcomed by Ian Bailey's solicitor, Frank Buttimer. So there's no reason to be surprised.

Is there anything Enda Kenny has not been blamed for by now?

crusier

Even Putin would have a red face if he tried to pull this one! Disgrace if it's not out offer the bailey trial!

nice_guy80

Ian Baileys case is predicted to be the longest running action against the state EVER.

So when will this other report actually come out?

Slick50

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And in the latest twist to this story...

In a letter to the Taoiseach, Justice Fennelly says that case is "inextricably linked" to the secret Garda recordings which caused Mr Callinan to resign.

It looks like he has already drawn some conclusions.

michael999999

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Ian Baileys case is predicted to be the longest running action against the state EVER.

So when will this other report actually come out?

Never.

All the participants will slink off and nothing will ever come of this.

Remember the furore over the REHAB scandal?

Enda Kennyy is up to hes eyeballs in this, and he's doing a fine job in burying it. All these cronies look after each other!

Fine Gael showing themselves to be as deceptive and cunning as Fianna fail are!

Banjo String

I for one love Endas new way of doing business.

We've never seen so much honesty and transparency from out elected representatives.

daUbiq

conorh91 wrote: »

The jury is still hearing evidence in Ian Bailey's civil action, and clearly there is a concern that publication of the Fennelly report would prejudice their decision.

The election is over a year away. Ian Bailey's civil action will be disposed of in the coming weeks.

It has been known from the outset that the Fennelly investigation would enquire into Ian Bailey's dealings with Gardaí. This was welcomed by Ian Bailey's solicitor, Frank Buttimer. So there's no reason to be surprised.

Is there anything Enda Kenny has not been blamed for by now?

He is the Taoiseach; shouldn't he be held responsible for anything happening under his watch?

conorh91

daUbiq wrote: »

He is the Taoiseach; shouldn't he be held responsible for anything happening under his watch?

He takes joint responsibility for Government decisions; is held fully responsible for a small number of decisions he makes alone as Taoiseach; and is answerable to his constituents.

The Taoiseach has no authority to unilaterally delay or impede a publication of a report of a Commission of Investigation.

The Government is always obliged to publish such a finished report, unless:

(i) the Commission withholds a report or,
(ii) the Government is directed by the High Court not to publish a report

Probably a waste of time typing all that, considering the above conspiracies.

nice_guy80

conorh91 wrote: »

He takes joint responsibility for Government decisions; is held fully responsible for a small number of decisions he makes alone as Taoiseach; and is answerable to his constituents.

The Taoiseach has no authority to unilaterally delay or impede a publication of a report of a Commission of Investigation.

The Government is always obliged to publish such a finished report, unless:

(i) the Commission withholds a report or,
(ii) the Government is directed by the High Court not to publish a report

Probably a waste of time typing all that, considering the above conspiracies.

who appointed the high court judge????

conorh91

Denis O'Brien. Off with you and start up a protest.

Muahahaha

Another stroke in the making here, I'm not sure how the Ian Bailey case is in anyway related to the night Enda Kenny sacked former Commissioner Callinan. Michael Martin challenged him to ask Fennelly to release the Callinan section of the report and he refused which says a lot really because it is difficult to see how it would prejudice the outcome of the Ian Bailey trial. The only way I could see it doing that is if Fennelly has found out that Callinan himself had direct involvement in secretly recording Ian Baileys conversations from Bandon Garda station.

I'm also wondering if Enda might find himself fighting the next general election against a backdrop of leaks coming out from the Phoenix Park. We mustn't forget that Callinan rose up the Garda ranks whilst under 14 years of successive FF governments so his loyalty is to FF and certainly not to the FG administration that sacked him. Many of the management in the Park would also be closely connected to FF which means Michael Martin is well aware of the finer details of what went on here. Enda might fins that there are snakes waiting in the long grass come election time, scores to settle and all that.

Muahahaha

conorh91 wrote: »

The Taoiseach has no authority to unilaterally delay or impede a publication of a report of a Commission of Investigation.

He has no authority to sack a Garda Commissioner in the manner that it happened but that didn't stop him, did it?

_Kaiser_

Muahahaha wrote: »

Another stroke in the making here, I'm not sure how the Ian Bailey case is in anyway related to the night Enda Kenny sacked former Commissioner Callinan. Michael Martin challenged him to ask Fennelly to release the Callinan section of the report and he refused which says a lot really because it is difficult to see how it would prejudice the outcome of the Ian Bailey trial. The only way I could see it doing that is if Fennelly has found out that Callinan himself had direct involvement in secretly recording Ian Baileys conversations from Bandon Garda station.

I'm also wondering if Enda might find himself fighting the next general election against a backdrop of leaks coming out from the Phoenix Park. We mustn't forget that Callinan rose up the Garda ranks whilst under 14 years of successive FF governments so his loyalty is to FF and certainly not to the FG administration that sacked him. Many of the management in the Park would also be closely connected to FF which means Michael Martin is well aware of the finer details of what went on here. Enda might fins that there are snakes waiting in the long grass come election time, scores to settle and all that.

We can only hope...

Kenny's arrogance, condescension, hiding, and refusal to debate or justify himself or his Government's policies to the electorate needs to be ended.

Despite the never-ending scandals that have been the hallmark of the current Government, this erosion of what's left of our democratic process - in combination with ramming legislation through the Dail with minimal or no debate, using the whip system to silence dissent, and Kenny himself "correcting" official Dail records when he's been caught out - is an even bigger threat to the future of this country than the notion of giving them another 5 years at the trough.

Bad as FF are (and make no mistake - they are!), given the choice between them, FG, SF, LAB, or a gaggle of far-left/Independents, I think I'd rather go with FF - which is in itself a shocking indictment of the lack of real/realistic choice we face in this country.

Next year should be interesting but I think whatever Government is elected, I don't think it'll be seeing a full-term.

Muahahaha

I feel your despair, I'm a floating voter with no loyalties and not one party out there speaks to me. The level of politician we have in this country is really dire.

serfboard

Muahahaha wrote: »

He has no authority to sack a Garda Commissioner in the manner that it happened but that didn't stop him, did it?

How dare you suggest that Enda Kenny sacked Callinan?

The Secretary General of the Department of Justice called to the Garda Commissioner's house and he coincidentally resigned after that visit.

Honest.

nice_guy80

I see Kenny refused to state whether he was re-called to give further evidence

He's well able to reveal other things though

crusier

serfboard wrote: »

How dare you suggest that Enda Kenny sacked Callinan?

The Secretary General of the Department of Justice called to the Garda Commissioner's house and he coincidentally resigned after that visit.

Honest.

If ever I saw a case of constructive dismissed this is one, It wouldn't surprise me if down the road Mr Callinan took the state to the cleaners!

Muahahaha

I think its today which is the one year anniversary of Callinan being sacked by Enda Kenny. Callinan himself is reported in the Indo as being frustrated that the Fennelly report still hasnt been published. Meanwhile Enda continues to obfuscate around it. The Ian Bailey trial that is supposedly holding the publication of the report up is entering the final stages of the trial.

nice_guy80

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think its today which is the one year anniversary of Callinan being sacked by Enda Kenny. Callinan himself is reported in the Indo as being frustrated that the Fennelly report still hasnt been published. Meanwhile Enda continues to obfuscate around it. The Ian Bailey trial that is supposedly holding the publication of the report up is entering the final stages of the trial.

it will drag on, and be appealed.
so that will bury the Fennelly thing for another while

tayto lover

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think its today which is the one year anniversary of Callinan being sacked by Enda Kenny. Callinan himself is reported in the Indo as being frustrated that the Fennelly report still hasnt been published. Meanwhile Enda continues to obfuscate around it. The Ian Bailey trial that is supposedly holding the publication of the report up is entering the final stages of the trial.

What has the Bailey case got to do with the Callinan resignation?
Two separate matters imo.

gizmo555

tayto lover wrote: »

What has the Bailey case got to do with the Callinan resignation?
Two separate matters imo.

Some of the covert recording of calls to and from Garda stations which precipitated Callinan's resignation relate to the Bailey case.

tayto lover

gizmo555 wrote: »

Some of the covert recording of calls to and from Garda stations which precipitated Callinan's resignation relate to the Bailey case.

Was Callinan even the Commissioner at the time of that murder though? Don';t think so. Probably nothing to do with him and is being used to keep putting back the issues around why he resigned.

crusier

tayto lover wrote: »

Was Callinan even the Commissioner at the time of that murder though? Don';t think so. Probably nothing to do with him and is being used to keep putting back the issues around why he resigned.

Enda will fall on his own sword!

voter1983

When is the Bailey case likely to conclude?

JRant

voter1983 wrote: »

When is the Bailey case likely to conclude?

Some time after the next general election or so Edna hopes.

Muahahaha

voter1983 wrote: »

When is the Bailey case likely to conclude?

Closing arguments are happening today, it should be finished sometime next week.