Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

Shady Tady

JRant wrote: »

No you're right. He's completely without fault in this whole 'disgusting' fiasco. Justice for the "Phenix Park 1".

Some public servants are more equal than others.

What actions?

Shady Tady

Going Forward wrote: »

This single post has troubled me since I read it yesterday, and I had to look it up again.

I was going to reply with some fair minded comment about the "involved" word and it's connotations, but I am sadly finding myself in agreement, with being unable to contradict the suspicion.

The reputation of AGS is on the floor, not at all helped by the interim/shoo in/whatever Commissioner's as you say, programmed responses to RTE's Mr. Paul Reynold's probing questions.

I used to always salute a Guard when meeting them driving on a country road, I couldn't be bothered now, because I don't trust them with anything.

It's a shame, but it's their own fault. Goodwill works both ways.

I bet the garda on the country road couldn't be bothered waving to you either because all he hears is the public dragging his name through the mud and ignoring the work he's done for maybe 30 years working shifts and weekends. Maybe that garda is on his way to a sucide, a sudden death, or a domestic where by right he would need the help of another garda but the resources are not there. It's people like you who are clearly lucky enough not to have needed Garda at times like these because when they are needed they more often than not go beyond the call of duty and the majority of people in this country know and appreciate that and have experiece of that. This goverment has done a hatchet job on the force in order to save alan shatter. Don't wave in future your not worthy of a wave back!

Sierra Oscar

Phoebas wrote: »

Here he is being interviewed by Ben Gilroy (tm)
From 22 mins

Thanks for sharing, nice to hear from Wilson himself instead of just reading about the 'whistleblower' in the papers.

I was quite impressed with Gilroy's interviewing style, although the setup of the show is a little bizarre!!

I thought it was interesting the way Wilson staunchly defended the right for Gardai to exercise discretion on the Late Late Show. Seemingly the issue is that there can be a differing viewpoint within the force as to the form that discretion can take. I also didn't realise until tonight that penalty points were being written off by senior officers without them even informing the Gardai that issued them thatbthey were being removed. That must have been demoralising for the rank and file!

hatrickpatrick

Shady Tady wrote: »

Tapes from 18 years ago and the commissioner has to resign, he was probably a sgt at the time in another part of the country, it's a whitewash by the goverment, people talk about accountability that's fcuking accountability!

The commissioner didn't resign solely because of the tapes, he resigned after a series of scandals, of which the tapes were only the most recent.
As I've said several times, I've had had both his and Shatter's heads over the Wallace smear, but both of their treatments of the whistleblowers and of GSOC over the bugging of their offices were an absolute disgrace and both of them should have resigned regardless of whether this tape scandal had ever happened at all.
So it's not quite "Tapes from 18 years ago and the commissioner has to resign", it's "scandal after scandal and he has to resign". The tapes were almost relevant to it IMO, as he had already breached what I think most people would describe as a reasonable level of standards, particularly with his response to the GSOC story.

rodento

Starting to wonder if the government can move on from the controversy, without shatter moving on from the justice post. Even after the vote of confidence in shatter, the papers are still pushing stories of shatter should go

Take the irish times this weekend
80% people think shatter is damaged

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-shows-little-confidence-in-shatter-to-resolve-crisis-1.1751030

Coalition blame garda crisis for poll
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coalition-blames-garda-crisis-for-bad-poll-1.1750996
Wilson calls on shatter to go
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-whistleblower-calls-on-shatter-to-resign-1.1750433

We haven't even seen what the papers will say tomorrow but shatter still has to revise his report explaining why he rubbished the verrimus report

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/committee-writes-to-shatter-berating-his-disappointing-response-to-providing-details-of-gsoc-security-report-1.1727548

And than we have the report about the bugging of GSOC to come out before Easter, interesting times ahead

raymon

Phoebas wrote: »

Here he is being interviewed by Ben Gilroy (tm)
From 22 mins

Thanks for sharing this !! Again he comes across as a credible witness

Wilson gives a lot of praise to Claire Daly, Mick Wallace, Ming, Joan Collins and Shane Ross.

Not one mention of Michael Martin or other gombeen men who hijacked the issue and stole their thunder once the brave work was done.

tayto lover

Shady Tady wrote: »

I bet the garda on the country road couldn't be bothered waving to you either because all he hears is the public dragging his name through the mud and ignoring the work he's done for maybe 30 years working shifts and weekends. Maybe that garda is on his way to a sucide, a sudden death, or a domestic where by right he would need the help of another garda but the resources are not there. It's people like you who are clearly lucky enough not to have needed Garda at times like these because when they are needed they more often than not go beyond the call of duty and the majority of people in this country know and appreciate that and have experiece of that. This goverment has done a hatchet job on the force in order to save alan shatter. Don't wave in future your not worthy of a wave back!

I actually agree with this.
In my time of running my little business I met only one garda that I would say was not up to standard and who I had words with, the rest were very good. I had break-ins and a few threats from a few gurriers and had very good assistance from the garda force in general in the Dundalk area.
I think its the leadership that is letting them down along with the "circle the wagons" mentality when things go wrong.
The commissioner should not be a political appointment i.e. puppet for politicians.

tomdempsey200

raymon wrote: »

Thanks for sharing this !! Again he comes across as a credible witness

Wilson gives a lot of praise to Claire Daly, Mick Wallace, Ming, Joan Collins and Shane Ross.

Not one mention of Michael Martin or other gombeen men who hijacked the issue and stole their thunder once the brave work was done.

ming must have been in a right pickle

having his points quashed and the points whistleblower coming to him

raymon

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

ming must have been in a right pickle

having his points quashed and the points whistleblower coming to him

Yes Ming and this one :

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/cops-cancelled-points-for-td

sopretty

Phoebas wrote: »

Here he is being interviewed by Ben Gilroy (tm)
From 22 mins

I've tried to watch this video but it is saying that it is currently unavailable. Is it actually unavailable or do you have another link to it? Please and Thanks!

rodento

raymon wrote: »

Yes Ming and this one :

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/cops-cancelled-points-for-td

Do you have a anti FF news feed app

Banjo String

rodento wrote: »

Do you have a anti FF news feed app

I have a sneaky suspicion that he isn't their biggest fan.

A bit obsessive though.

Fr. Ned

raymon wrote: »

Yes Ming and this one :

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/cops-cancelled-points-for-td

Glasshouses and stones........

raymon

rodento wrote: »

Do you have a anti FF news feed app

Ha ha . Now theres an idea !!

rodento

Classic daily mail, just look at the headlines

Whistleblower - shatter must go....

Followed by

New acting comm - whistleblowers must be listened to

http://www.pressdisplay.com/staging/timesonline/iphone/homepage.aspx#_title894920140405000000000010014/watitle894920140405000000000010014/8949/89492014040500000000001001/4/true

renegademaster

rodento wrote: »

Do you have a anti FF news feed app

no, it's called having your eyes and ears open

brooke 2

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Thanks for sharing, nice to hear from Wilson himself instead of just reading about the 'whistleblower' in the papers.

I was quite impressed with Gilroy's interviewing style, although the setup of the show is a little bizarre!!

I thought it was interesting the way Wilson staunchly defended the right for Gardai to exercise discretion on the Late Late Show. Seemingly the issue is that there can be a differing viewpoint within the force as to the form that discretion can take. I also didn't realise until tonight that penalty points were being written off by senior officers without them even informing the Gardai that issued them thatbthey were being removed. That must have been demoralising for the rank and file!

John Wilson was brilliant in the way he explained the discretion issue. Was Tubridy being deliberately obtuse?? Unfortunately, I suspect he was not.

The penalty points issue has nothing to do with the garda who ISSUES the ticket.
Shatter did not even seem to understand that when he was on Prime Time with
Mick Wallace!!

Only gardai of senior rank could REMOVE penalty points once they had been entered
into the PULSE system. As John Wilson tried to explain, the junior garda who had
originally issued the points would not even know if they had subsequently been removed by a senior garda!!

The discretion issue, as 'understood' by Ryan Tubridy and Alan Shatter, is irrelevant
when arguing about penalty points.

hatrickpatrick

rodento wrote: »

Starting to wonder if the government can move on from the controversy, without shatter moving on from the justice post.

They can only move on from it if the public and the media allow them to. Just as in the case of the GSOC bugging story - Irish media initially tried to bury it, it was the explosion of discussion on forums, Twitter, call-in talk shows etc which forced the story to the top of the Irish political agenda.

If we don't want them to move on without getting rid of Shatter, it's up to us to keep piling on the pressure.

brooke 2 wrote: »

Only gardai of senior rank could REMOVE penalty points once they had been entered
into the PULSE system. As John Wilson tried to explain, the junior garda who had
originally issued the points would not even know if they had subsequently been removed by a senior garda!!

Then perhaps one potential solution to this whole penalty points issue would be to remove penalty points from PULSE altogether and store them in a separate database under the control of the RSA or something like that, so that once issued it's not the Gardai who can directly access them and "edit" someone's profile?
Obviously that's a fairly minor solution, as the penalty points saga is clearly evidence of wider systemic corruption in the administration of justice, but at least that'd be a start.

raymon

sopretty wrote: »

I've tried to watch this video but it is saying that it is currently unavailable. Is it actually unavailable or do you have another link to it? Please and Thanks!

here is the link sopretty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwr1ivNzo14

My name is URL

The Ben Gilroy Show.. I seriously thought you lads were joking until I clicked that link. Good lord!

raymon

My name is URL wrote: »

The Ben Gilroy Show.. I seriously thought you lads were joking until I clicked that link. Good lord!

Recorded audience clapping and all !!

I dont buy into his politics at all - but this specific interview does have some good insights.

sopretty

Delighted to have watched that - thanks for posting.

Hootanany

My name is URL wrote: »

The Ben Gilroy Show.. I seriously thought you lads were joking until I clicked that link. Good lord!

Miles better than the states propaganda machine

JRant

Shady Tady wrote: »

What actions?

Have a wild guess.

tomdempsey200

he made a good impression on the LLS

and got the point across about the roadside discretion

as usual in these cases advance propaganda or smearing would have you believe these people are somehow disturbed or troublemakers..that seems to be far from the case here

LynnGrace

Phoebas wrote: »

Here he is being interviewed by Ben Gilroy.
From 22 mins

Thanks a million, just watched that, well worth watching.

Hootanany

Is this show just on youtube or on the telly?

Shady Tady

JRant wrote: »

Have a wild guess.

I'll try one more time, what actions?

JRant

Shady Tady wrote: »

I'll try one more time, what actions?

Well his comments on the WB's actions as disgusting for a start.

Wildlife Actor

raymon wrote: »

Yes Ming and this one :

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/cops-cancelled-points-for-td

Presumably everybody who puts their head above the parapet in this debate will be met with a pulse search against them by AGS followed by a leak to the press. They've smartened up since Shatter's gaffe on Primetime. Unlike him, the press don't have to answer to anyone for accessing confidential Garda databases.

So keep your heads down lads, if you know what's good for you.