Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

fr3d12

Godge wrote: »

No he wasn't, that is ridiculous. McCabe was entitled to report to the Confidential Whistleblower guy that there was a problem with the cancelling of penalty points.

Under the Data Protection Act, he was not entitled to give the names of people whose points had been cancelled unless it was required in an official capacity i.e. he could have given the names and information to O'Mahony during his investigation. He certainly couldn't and shouldn't have given names to opposition deputies. Whether you think that is right or wrong, that is the law.




He gave information to Martin, Daly and Wallace. That is leaking information against the law. If you think the law is wrong, fair enough, but don't say he didn't leak information.

He was entitled to contact any member of the Oireachtas with his concerns, that includes, Kenny, Martin, Wallace and Daly.
Read the legislation.

periodictable

Busted Flat. wrote: »

What, I won't embarrass you by asking your age, or your parents intellect.

You were looking in a mirror when you wrote that?

Godge

bobcoffee wrote: »

SF post, don't know if it was already linked.
going to stay impartial on it.


My office is dealing with more claims of garda malpractice — Gerry Adams

Now that made me laugh.

Is someone going to look at all the gardai that turned a blind eye to Gerry and his terrorist friend's activities along the border?

Or the ones that leaked the location of the RUC officers travelling back from Dundalk?

Gerry's list of gardai who disrespected the force will certainly make for interesting reading.

Happyman42

Godge wrote: »

Now that made me laugh.

Is someone going to look at all the gardai that turned a blind eye to Gerry and his terrorist friend's activities along the border?

Or the ones that leaked the location of the RUC officers travelling back from Dundalk?

Gerry's list of gardai who disrespected the force will certainly make for interesting reading.

The gardai didn't cover themselves in glory when dealing with their duties around the border and nationalists/republicans.
A few whistle blowers around the time of the Heavy Gang's activities might have been desirable.

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

The gardai didn't cover themselves in glory when dealing with their duties around the border and nationalists/republicans.

Agreed, some more vigilance against the IRA terrorists would have saved lives.

fr3d12

Godge wrote: »

Agreed, some more vigilance against the IRA terrorists would have saved lives.

More vigilance against the Gardai could have arguably done the same.

Happyman42

Godge wrote: »

Agreed, some more vigilance against the IRA terrorists would have saved lives.

Not surprised you interpreted my post that way, you have already displayed magnificently in this thread how one human being can interpret facts so badly.

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

Not surprised you interpreted my post that way, you have already displayed magnificently in this thread how one human being can interpret facts so badly.

I will interpret facts when I get them. So far all we have is McCabe and his allegations. If they are proven right, heads should roll. Not saying where and whom until I see what is proven. Until then, all we have is internet outrage.

Sierra Oscar

Godge wrote: »

I will interpret facts when I get them.

And what if the government try their hardest to ensure the facts do not come to light?

I am assuming you are supportive of a full independent public inquiry into these issues to clarify the facts?

fr3d12

Godge wrote: »

I will interpret facts when I get them. So far all we have is McCabe and his allegations. If they are proven right, heads should roll. Not saying where and whom until I see what is proven. Until then, all we have is internet outrage.

Only internet outrage?
Are you locked away from the world or what.

Godge

fr3d12 wrote: »

Only internet outrage?
Are you locked away from the world or what.

Plus some journos talking to each other on TV and radio.

The ordinary guy in the street isn't talking or thinking about this. They have too much else to do. Look at the opinion polls.

golfball37

Godge wrote: »

Plus some journos talking to each other on TV and radio.

The ordinary guy in the street isn't talking or thinking about this. They have too much else to do. Look at the opinion polls.

Opinion polls are no more reflective of what society thinks than this website imo.

Take SF for example, riding high in most opinion polls but never get within an assess roar of those figures when it comes to an election.

Sierra Oscar

Godge wrote: »

The ordinary guy in the street isn't talking or thinking about this. They have too much else to do. Look at the opinion polls.

Try knocking on doors and see what the reaction is. It is coming up, it is really highlighting that FG & Labour talked a load of ****e when they promised "new politics" and a "new way of doing things".

It will definitely do long term damage to the level of trust that people place in this government.

bobcoffee

the TV show QI had a great statistic.
About how even though the show is all about getting the facts rights, a certain % will be wrong, couldn't find it on google for correct info
Also on top of that, the very old saying of.. "history is written by the winners".

Facts are not always facts regardless of how recognised that person saying them is.

if someone wants to try with google and finding exactly what was said on QI,
do believe it was something like this... "in 20 years time if you go over the facts said on this show about 5-15% will be false"
now its the % I can't remember.

adrag

Godge wrote: »

I will interpret facts when I get them. So far all we have is McCabe and his allegations. If they are proven right, heads should roll. Not saying where and whom until I see what is proven. Until then, all we have is internet outrage.

Your interpretations of things leads me to believe that you are teenager or a cheerleader for ags

bobcoffee

Or misinformed by those around him, it is Ireland, lots of lies in every corner.
And were just some random people on some random site playing keyboard warriors so you can't blame him for sticking to his guns.

My name is URL

Broadsheet has a nice timeline of events in case anyone has missed any of it.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/02/24/the-thin-blue-timeline/

bajer101

"Hugh O'Connell
@oconnellhugh
Seán Guerin, appointed to examine garda whistleblower claims, appeared for Fine Gael at Planning Tribunal in 2005"

http://www.planningtribunal.ie/images/SITECONTENT_408.pdf

Busted Flat.

bajer101 wrote: »

"Hugh O'Connell
@oconnellhugh
Seán Guerin, appointed to examine garda whistleblower claims, appeared for Fine Gael at Planning Tribunal in 2005"

http://www.planningtribunal.ie/images/SITECONTENT_408.pdf

Cosy.:rolleyes:

diomed

I'll take a guess. :rolleyes:
They wrote the names of all barristers in the country on slips of paper, put them in a hat, and picked one out to investigate the situation

in the minister's favour.

hatrickpatrick

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The government have announced another "review", no inquiry. They are hoping the story will just disappear. :rolleyes:

RTÉ News - Barrister to examine whistleblower claims

As with the GSOC bugging allegations, it is up to us, the public, to keep making noise about this and ensure that it isn't allowed to disappear.
Were it not for Twitter and a few determined journalists, the gsoc story would have (and still could be) buried. This must be the same.

Godge

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

And what if the government try their hardest to ensure the facts do not come to light?

I am assuming you are supportive of a full independent public inquiry into these issues to clarify the facts?

I am fed up of full independent public inquiries like Tribunals that take years and get nowhere.

One thing this government did promise was to reform the Oireachtas inquiry system. They put a referendum to the people and the people voted no.

I was astonished at the result but we have yet to come up with an alternative.

_Kaiser_

bajer101 wrote: »

"Hugh O'Connell
@oconnellhugh
Seán Guerin, appointed to examine garda whistleblower claims, appeared for Fine Gael at Planning Tribunal in 2005"

http://www.planningtribunal.ie/images/SITECONTENT_408.pdf

I didn't even need to read that - I knew when I heard Enda on the radio earlier that it'd be someone connected to the party/government

The cycle continues. Came home to a FG leaflet stuffed through the door. They obviously know better than to actually call in person when people are home.

gizmo555

Godge wrote: »

I was astonished at the result but we have yet to come up with an alternative.

We have a perfectly adequate alternative:

COMMISSIONS OF INVESTIGATION ACT 2004

Scofflaw

Godge wrote: »

I am fed up of full independent public inquiries like Tribunals that take years and get nowhere.

One thing this government did promise was to reform the Oireachtas inquiry system. They put a referendum to the people and the people voted no.

I was astonished at the result but we have yet to come up with an alternative.

The fly in the ointment was that the proposal allowed the Oireachtas to decide on the rights available to those called in front of their inquiries. That remains an entirely unacceptable idea.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Godge

Scofflaw wrote: »

The fly in the ointment was that the proposal allowed the Oireachtas to decide on the rights available to those called in front of their inquiries. That remains an entirely unacceptable idea.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Probably, but we are second-guessing the Irish public.

It is ironic to see people criticising the length and cost of the Tribunals, opposing the referendum, and then criticising the lack of an independent inquiry in the current situation. There is at least one public commentator who would be guilty of this.

My name is URL

Godge wrote: »

I am fed up of full independent public inquiries like Tribunals that take years and get nowhere.

One thing this government did promise was to reform the Oireachtas inquiry system. They put a referendum to the people and the people voted no.

I was astonished at the result but we have yet to come up with an alternative.

You were astonished that the public did not trust politicians to wield quasi-judicial powers.. really?

I'd say a bullet was dodged with the result of that referendum. You'd want to be bonkers to trust FG & Labor to exercise such remit in a fair and transparent way.

We've already had them appoint a party 'favourite' to investigate what is known.. and that's without all the added powers they would have had if that referendum had passed.

michael999999

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Try knocking on doors and see what the reaction is. It is coming up, it is really highlighting that FG & Labour talked a load of ****e when they promised "new politics" and a "new way of doing things".

It will definitely do long term damage to the level of trust that people place in this government.

It certainly shows me that fine Gael are as corrupt and self serving as the crooked Fianna fail government before them.

What we need is an investigation team to be sent in from Europe, to investigate the whole political system in Ireland.

Maybe then well learn the truth about the most cunning of them all bertie ahern. Or Michael martin who's wife had a developers money lodged into her bank account. Or affidavit Willie o dea who faced no charges.

Not to mention haughey, Lowry, lenihan.....the list goes on and on and on.

fr3d12

Godge wrote: »

Plus some journos talking to each other on TV and radio.

The ordinary guy in the street isn't talking or thinking about this. They have too much else to do. Look at the opinion polls.

Why do you continually quote the opinion polls, they are irrelevant and rarely accurate.
Our opulent politicians have battered the people to their knees with a crippling austerity policy that has arguably failed. They massage the live register figures with schemes like Job bridge whereby big profitable and viable companies can get free labour without having to make any committments in return.
We hear words like "equality" and "social justice" coming out of their mouths but personally I fail to see any change, ask anyone in negative equity with the bank breathing their neck. The gravy train they all ride on would be somewhat tolerable to the people if we had the aforementioned social justice, they break pay caps for advisors and spin doctors while the ordinary working Joe pays the piper, their treatment of carers and the dsabled has been unconscionable and they failed to ring fence the 35 million for mental health as they had promised.
All the cabinet but Ruairi Quinn are off on their "holidays" next month at the expense of the taxpayer and yes you are right to say people have other things to worry about but that does not mean the majority do not care about the GSOC issue.
I've spoken to quite a few people about the whole GSOC affair and everyone says the same thing that nothing will happen as usual.
They have detached themselves from reality so no wonder the majority of people are cynical of anything they say or do.
When the likes of property taxes and water charges etc are mentioned we are told it is all in line with what other countries in the EU are doing yet Enda earns more than Obama, Merkel and Cameron!
Ireland has lost it's democracy and this autocratic Govt. is embracing it's fascist roots with gusto.

I may have deviated off topic a little but IMO it's all relevant to the attitude of the Govt.

_Kaiser_

I'm watching the Prime Time replay on +1 here .. RTE are being surprisingly anti-Shatter/government.

This whole nonsense of "the minister will be making a statement tomorrow" just smacks of them scrambling to put together a staged performance that will undoubtedly attempt to muddy the waters some more.

... and rather than continue the debate, let's start talking about spuds?! :rolleyes: