Landlord not giving back deposit

take everything

Rasmus wrote: »

You got to this stage within 6 months? That's great. PRTB can't do much really with truly criminal landlords - but they are great with many other cases.

At the risk of me labouring this point, the word criminal was used by yourself there.
This is the sticking point for me. If this guy's behaviour is tantamount to criminality should I be more wary.

What makes ME able to deal with (and more importantly not suffer repercussions from) someone who doesn't abide by the law?; It's like I'm now taking on the role of sheriff as it were.

If I can square that in my head I'll do the revenue thing (if PRTB turn out to be useless).

Rasmus

take everything wrote: »

At the risk of me labouring this point, the word criminal was used by yourself there.
This is the sticking point for me. If this guy's behaviour is tantamount to criminality should I be more wary.
What makes me able to deal with (and more importantly not suffer repercussions from) someone who doesn't abide by the law. It's like I'm now taking on the role of sheriff as it were.
If I can square that in my head I'll do the revenue thing (if PRTB turn out to be useless).

I think people were just suggesting you threaten him with revenue investigation as a last - ditch attempt at getting your money, rather than you playing sheriff.
I don't think it will make a difference and as far as going to circuit court, it is probably not worth your while.

take everything

Rasmus wrote: »

I think people were just suggesting you threaten him with revenue investigation as a last - ditch attempt at getting your money, rather than you playing sheriff.
I don't think it will make a difference and as far as going to circuit court, it is probably not worth your while.

When you say you don't think it'll make a difference, do you mean you think he won't be responsive to the revenue tactic.

Rasmus

take everything wrote: »

When you say you don't think it'll make a difference, do you mean you think he won't be responsive to the revenue tactic.

Yeah I'd say he won't care about threats or further court action - he's probably already in trouble. Do You Actually Know If He Has Been Receiving The PRTB Letters?

Big Davey

Go to the PRTB it's not as long and drawn out ad people think. Most of the people who slag the PRTB have not dealt with them in my opinion. I got my case heard in a few months and a judgement a few months after that. Something needs to be done about landlords like this you have nothing to loose and everything to gain including getting to sit across the table from this low life and tell him what you think about him and his actions. In my opinion you will get a fair hearing and some form of justice but I recon as soon as a PRTB letter arrives on this guys Matt he will call you and sort things out that's how bullies usually work. Good luck.

take everything wrote: »

Hi.
My previous landlord is refusing to give me back my deposit.
I met him on the last day of my tenancy and at that time he told me he'd send my on a cheque minus what he estimated to be around 75 euro for cleaning (which i was ok with).
Probably stupidly i trusted him and said fine and gave back the key.

3 weeks on and there was no cheque or no communication from him.
He wouldn't answer my calls so i had to resort to email which he finally answered. Now he's telling me:
I owe him money (200 euro odd and he's keeping my deposit of 450) but he'll waive the 200. :rolleyes:

1. He said he had to clean and redecorate the apartment at a cost of 300 euro. Part of this is an accusation that i broke a wardrobe door. I didn't. This was very loose on its hinges and it fell off after about a year of use and nearly flattened me at the time. I was pretty annoyed about the possibility that i could have been injured. (Foolishly i didn't tell him at the time because he takes ages to fix anything and i just said to myself it's not worth bothering with it). But either way 300 euro is ridiculous.

2. He said he had to paint it at a cost of 74 euro (no idea what he has to paint as i didn't do anything to walls).

3. He said he had to replace a blind at a cost of 170 euro. I did nothing to this. The house is quite damp and there is a big problem with mould which i am dead from removing from the blinds every couple of weeks with mould/mildew remover/opening the windows/sliding door/turning on the heat etc. Yet he's accusing me of having mould/mildew on these blinds. And not a peep out of him about this any time he came over. Also there was a heap of mildew on the blinds when i moved in.

4. He's also accusing me of breaking an old chair (i didn't) (40 euro) and an old lamp (35 euro) which i didn't as i never used it and left it in a wardrobe for the length of my stay.

5. Most bizarrely, he has also accused me of dirtying his fridge (specifically the outside of the rubber seals of the fridge door were dirty but the rest of the fridge is spotless). Foolishly again i didn't take photos on moving in but come on... the rubber seals of the fridge? All they needed were a scrub. The rest of the fridge is spotless. And he's now talking about having to buy a new fridge if he can't replace the doors and is supposedly awaiting a receipt for this.

6. He went on about a dirty kitchen sink even though the kitchen sink was far cleaner when i moved out than than when i moved in (it was black when i moved in and i had to scrub this off with steel wool- he conveniently forgot this).

This is a guy who was in my apartment a couple of weeks before i left (rent, whatnot) and there was not one mention of all this stuff. Not one mention of the blinds or the need to decorate the place at a cost of 300 euro etc etc.
On the day of leaving he quoted an estimate of between 50 and 100 for cleaning (which even though i thought was excessive i agreed for him to send on the cheque), not having the guts to say all this to my face.

This is also a guy who i (foolishly) handed over cash to every month (never once late with the rent) and repeatedly asked for receipts yet got none. He always had some excuse (always slipped his mind etc).
I asked again for receipts in my last email and nothing has come.

I looked him up and as far as i can see he is not registered with PRTB.
I'm not sure what i can do. I talked to threshold and they have advised about corresponding with him (even though he wouldn't give me a postal address so i had to resort to email) and that i can go to PRTB if i want to lodge a dispute.

TBH i'm actually afraid of him at this stage (from the stuff above) and wonder whether i should just cut my losses.
From the reasonable landlords here, is this normal behaviour.

The cash, the lack of receipts, the lack of registration with the PRTB, the taking ages to fix anything, the not answering my calls, the failure to provide a postal address after telling him threshold advised this, the quoting 50-100 on the last day of tenancy euro then landing me a month later with this bombshell, the accusation that i broke his old stuff (i didn't), the fridge (wtf is that about ), the redecorating costs, the failure to say any of this when he visited 2 weeks before i left.

I'm a good tenant, never had any problems before, live on my own, never have parties, work hard (often long hours) and always pay my rent on time.
Does it sound like i'm being taken advantage of.
Advise would be appreciated.

take everything

Rasmus wrote: »

Yeah I'd say he won't care about threats - he's probably already in trouble. Do You Actually Know If He Has Been Receiving The PRTB Letters?

No.
This is a matter for the PRTB I would've thought.
They have the correct address and I presume they register the post.
He hasn't answered any of their calls either (eg on the day of the PRTB meeting they rang him repeatedly and I think left a voicemail but no answer).

ABajaninCork

Read the thread. OP has already gone to the PRTB, and has a ruling in his favour. His cowboy LL is not paying him and has ignored all communications.

take everything

Big Davey wrote: »

Go to the PRTB it's not as long and drawn out ad people think. Most of the people who slag the PRTB have not dealt with them in my opinion. I got my case heard in a few months and a judgement a few months after that. Something needs to be done about landlords like this you have nothing to loose and everything to gain including getting to sit across the table from this low life and tell him what you think about him and his actions. In my opinion you will get a fair hearing and some form of justice but I recon as soon as a PRTB letter arrives on this guys Matt he will call you and sort things out that's how bullies usually work. Good luck.

Hey Big Davey.
Unfortunately I'm well past that stage. :P

Rasmus

take everything wrote: »

No.
This is a matter for the PRTB I would've thought.
They have the correct address and I presume they register the post.
He hasn't answered any of their calls either (eg on the day of the PRTB meeting they rang him repeatedly and I think left a voicemail but no answer).

I was wondering if maybe he's not living where you think he is anymore. It might be easier for you to just draw a line under this. I do know though that it's the principle - I was so angry while waiting for my deposit (1000 euro). The fact that it was sitting in the landlords account gathering interest infuriated me. They were horrific LLs and a bit insane as well. Luckily for me, I did get it back, with damages. So the system does work for some when the LL is somewhat law - abiding.

Dan_Solo

The worst thing about this thread is that any landlords reading now know they really and truly can just withhold deposits and nothing will happen.

Citizenpain

You are assuming that all landlords are like this guy! Most are decent ordinary people -- like with all groups of people there are a few bad apples

Rasmus

Citizenpain wrote: »

You are assuming that all landlords are like this guy! Most are decent ordinary people -- like with all groupls of people there are a few bad apples

Yeah that's true. This thread won't make a 'good' LL go 'bad' !

Dan_Solo

Citizenpain wrote: »

You are assuming that all landlords are like this guy! Most are decent ordinary people -- like with all groupls of people there are a few bad apples

I have no doubt there's a mix of good and bad, like with anything else. This thread though has pretty much proven though that if a landlord doesn't want to return the deposit there's zero recourse.
I don't see why tenants should have to rely on benevolence or luck of the draw.

Citizenpain

it's been mentioned 100s/1000s of times but the whole system needs an overhaul
Landlords get dodgy renters too. Both need to be protected

jmayo

take everything wrote: »

At the risk of me labouring this point, the word criminal was used by yourself there.
This is the sticking point for me. If this guy's behaviour is tantamount to criminality should I be more wary.

What makes ME able to deal with (and more importantly not suffer repercussions from) someone who doesn't abide by the law?; It's like I'm now taking on the role of sheriff as it were.

If I can square that in my head I'll do the revenue thing (if PRTB turn out to be useless).

Ahh for jaysus sake grow a pair and that applies even if you are female.

Unless you know for sure that this guy has a moniker such as monk, viper, the general, etc it is gettting to the time you play hardball.

If the PRTB fails what are you going to do ?
Come on here asking for advise and then ignore us telling us he might be the next general or possibily a member of a smuggling operation and ex paramilitary so you wouldn't risk offending him ?

Sorry if I am sounding cruel, but the paranoid garbage you are dragging up as an excuse is laughable.
Yes the guy is acting like a criminal by stealing your money, but that doesn't mean he is an Irish Tony Soprano.

He is just like the dodgy builder who does a half ars**ed job, the dodgy publican who servews slops, the dodgy farmer who sells rotten bales, etc, etc.
He is in the business of screwing over people financially.

awec

Dan_Solo wrote: »

After a while I realised the only way to be sure of getting your deposit back is to not pay your last month's rent. It'll take them a month to get you out and very little they can do about it afterwards.
Too late for this with the OP, but something to consider in future.

Not true, they can make a note of the fact you failed to uphold your part of the lease in any reference they give you for any future landlord.

So by withholding rent you are running the risk of screwing yourself over, especially in today's world where landlords are in a position to demand references from previous landlords.

awec

take everything wrote: »

At the risk of me labouring this point, the word criminal was used by yourself there.
This is the sticking point for me. If this guy's behaviour is tantamount to criminality should I be more wary.

What makes ME able to deal with (and more importantly not suffer repercussions from) someone who doesn't abide by the law?; It's like I'm now taking on the role of sheriff as it were.

If I can square that in my head I'll do the revenue thing (if PRTB turn out to be useless).

I think you are getting very OTT with this whole repercussions thing now tbh.

Dan_Solo

awec wrote: »

Not true, they can make a note of the fact you failed to uphold your part of the lease in any reference they give you for any future landlord.

So by withholding rent you are running the risk of screwing yourself over, especially in today's world where landlords are in a position to demand references from previous landlords.

Well they're hardly going to give you a reference if they've refused to give you the deposit they owe you either. References from previous landlords aren't usually asked for anyway, even less so now when there's more property and rents are stagnant in most places.

Grandpa Hassan

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I have no doubt there's a mix of good and bad, like with anything else. This thread though has pretty much proven though that if a landlord doesn't want to return the deposit there's zero recourse.
I don't see why tenants should have to rely on benevolence or luck of the draw.

And I don't see why landlords should have to rely on the luck of the draw with respect to tenants who use the deposit as the last months rent, then leave behind a damaged apartment.

It cuts both ways equally. This landlord is a bad penny, just like some tenants....the exception and not the rule

There is a thread running right now about a guy who can't find a place because he used his deposit as his last months rent and now cant get a reference as a result. And rightly so.

Dan_Solo

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

There is a thread running right now about a guy who can't find a place because he used his deposit as his last months rent and now cant get a reference as a result. And rightly so.

It would be nice to have a system whereby landlords are required by law to display their own references from previous tenants.

goz83

take everything wrote: »

OK but how does that get my deposit back.
How does being screwed by revenue make him feel like giving the deposit back.
Or are you talking about ringing him and using it as leverage to get it back (tbh I would have preferred not to have any dealings directly with him ever again, that's why I'm hoping the PRTB will get this money back).

Getting the deposit back (via PRTB) AND not being dragged down to his level is the result I want.

So at the moment my faith is in the PRTB to do something.
But if the PRTB do turn out to be useless I will consider the revenue tactic.
I just want to see what happens with the PRTB.

I would have answered, but.......

fash wrote: »

Step 1: contact landlord and threaten to call revenue unless deposit received.
Step 2: collect deposit.
Step 3: call revenue anyway- since landlord is a scumbag.

Where step 2 does not happen- call revenue anyway.

Fash got there 1st

take everything wrote: »

At the risk of me labouring this point, the word criminal was used by yourself there.
This is the sticking point for me. If this guy's behaviour is tantamount to criminality should I be more wary.

What makes ME able to deal with (and more importantly not suffer repercussions from) someone who doesn't abide by the law?; It's like I'm now taking on the role of sheriff as it were.

If I can square that in my head I'll do the revenue thing (if PRTB turn out to be useless).

Acting like a thick, burying his head in the sand and being able to make false claims in an email do not amount to a serial killer. Seriously OP, the trousers are still down. I don't mean to be rude here, but you are being a wimp here. Nobody has suggested you square up to this mug. You can do it as I suggested and maybe get a response, or you can wait for the PRTB ruling to cool off and watch your bank balance remain €450 short.

Big Davey wrote: »

Go to the PRTB it's not as long and drawn out ad people think. Most of the people who slag the PRTB have not dealt with them in my opinion. I got my case heard in a few months and a judgement a few months after that. Something needs to be done about landlords like this you have nothing to loose and everything to gain including getting to sit across the table from this low life and tell him what you think about him and his actions. In my opinion you will get a fair hearing and some form of justice but I recon as soon as a PRTB letter arrives on this guys Matt he will call you and sort things out that's how bullies usually work. Good luck.

Ah the people who don't read threads that are months old :rolleyes::pac:

Dan_Solo wrote: »

The worst thing about this thread is that any landlords reading now know they really and truly can just withhold deposits and nothing will happen.

If they want their credit ratings screwed, they can do that, yes. The op really needs to step up here and apply pressure threatening and then using revenue, not out of spite, but out of civil responsibilty.

MayoSalmon

Never pay the last months rent...I have learned this the hard way.

Won a PTSB case a year or two ago..still haven't recieved any money.

Rasmus

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Well they're hardly going to give you a reference if they've refused to give you the deposit they owe you either. References from previous landlords aren't usually asked for anyway, even less so now when there's more property and rents are stagnant in most places.

Interested in where you think rents are stagnant? 2002? Asking for refs is the norm.

foggy_lad

OP you need to go back to the PRTB and tell them you want their judgement against this thieving landlord enforced by them. THis will take some time but they should at least be able to affect this cretin's credit rating. Then you go to the revenue commissioners and report that he may not have paid tax on all the rent you paid him. Revenue will act a lot faster than the PRTB and will not be able to update you on any actions they take.

Dan_Solo

goz83 wrote: »

If they want their credit ratings screwed, they can do that, yes. The op really needs to step up here and apply pressure threatening and then using revenue, not out of spite, but out of civil responsibilty.

Ah but he's now screwed anyway because this landlord who won't give him a deposit will be writing his next reference.
What do you think that that reference will be like exactly?

awec

No matter what happens OP you need to be telling Revenue anyway. Paying cash in hand with no receipts to an unregistered landlord is going to get them interested.

Dan_Solo

Rasmus wrote: »

Interested in where you think rents are stagnant? 2002? Asking for refs is the norm.

Creeping up a bit yes, but hardly rocketing.

_Kaiser_

OK let's review...

- Landlord has the OP's deposit
- OP has gone to the PRTB and gotten a judgement against the landlord
- Landlord has refused to engage with the process at all
- After all this, the only thing the OP can do is: go through the Courts, or accept the loss

Firstly, this case shows precisely why the PRTB is equally useless to both landlords AND tenants. After 6 months of working through the process "the right way", the OP is still no closer to getting his deposit back and indeed now has to go to Court and pay MORE money if he wants any chance of getting it.

Why bother with the PRTB at all so?

What I'd do here OP is write it off to experience and on your next tenancy, if you run into any of the usual muppetry so commonly reported here - no response to needed repairs, problems with management fees not paid etc - then I'd lodge a report of those issues with the PRTB and keep the last month's rent.

As I said the other day on another thread, the rules only work when EVERYONE abides by them.

awec

I wouldn't write it off just yet. That's what the landlord wants.

The benefit of the PRTB here is that the OP now has something official to say he is right and the landlord is wrong. The question is now no longer whether or not he should be getting the money back, but rather when he is going to get it back.

awec

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Creeping up a bit yes, but hardly rocketing.

Have you tried renting in Dublin in the past few years?

I've never known a landlord not to insist on previous references.