Landlord not giving back deposit

take everything

Hi.
My previous landlord is refusing to give me back my deposit.
I met him on the last day of my tenancy and at that time he told me he'd send my on a cheque minus what he estimated to be around 75 euro for cleaning (which i was ok with).
Probably stupidly i trusted him and said fine and gave back the key.

3 weeks on and there was no cheque or no communication from him.
He wouldn't answer my calls so i had to resort to email which he finally answered. Now he's telling me:
I owe him money (200 euro odd and he's keeping my deposit of 450) but he'll waive the 200. :rolleyes:

1. He said he had to clean and redecorate the apartment at a cost of 300 euro. Part of this is an accusation that i broke a wardrobe door. I didn't. This was very loose on its hinges and it fell off after about a year of use and nearly flattened me at the time. I was pretty annoyed about the possibility that i could have been injured. (Foolishly i didn't tell him at the time because he takes ages to fix anything and i just said to myself it's not worth bothering with it). But either way 300 euro is ridiculous.

2. He said he had to paint it at a cost of 74 euro (no idea what he has to paint as i didn't do anything to walls).

3. He said he had to replace a blind at a cost of 170 euro. I did nothing to this. The house is quite damp and there is a big problem with mould which i am dead from removing from the blinds every couple of weeks with mould/mildew remover/opening the windows/sliding door/turning on the heat etc. Yet he's accusing me of having mould/mildew on these blinds. And not a peep out of him about this any time he came over. Also there was a heap of mildew on the blinds when i moved in.

4. He's also accusing me of breaking an old chair (i didn't) (40 euro) and an old lamp (35 euro) which i didn't as i never used it and left it in a wardrobe for the length of my stay.

5. Most bizarrely, he has also accused me of dirtying his fridge (specifically the outside of the rubber seals of the fridge door were dirty but the rest of the fridge is spotless). Foolishly again i didn't take photos on moving in but come on... the rubber seals of the fridge? All they needed were a scrub. The rest of the fridge is spotless. And he's now talking about having to buy a new fridge if he can't replace the doors and is supposedly awaiting a receipt for this.

6. He went on about a dirty kitchen sink even though the kitchen sink was far cleaner when i moved out than than when i moved in (it was black when i moved in and i had to scrub this off with steel wool- he conveniently forgot this).

This is a guy who was in my apartment a couple of weeks before i left (rent, whatnot) and there was not one mention of all this stuff. Not one mention of the blinds or the need to decorate the place at a cost of 300 euro etc etc.
On the day of leaving he quoted an estimate of between 50 and 100 for cleaning (which even though i thought was excessive i agreed for him to send on the cheque), not having the guts to say all this to my face.

This is also a guy who i (foolishly) handed over cash to every month (never once late with the rent) and repeatedly asked for receipts yet got none. He always had some excuse (always slipped his mind etc).
I asked again for receipts in my last email and nothing has come.

I looked him up and as far as i can see he is not registered with PRTB.
I'm not sure what i can do. I talked to threshold and they have advised about corresponding with him (even though he wouldn't give me a postal address so i had to resort to email) and that i can go to PRTB if i want to lodge a dispute.

TBH i'm actually afraid of him at this stage (from the stuff above) and wonder whether i should just cut my losses.
From the reasonable landlords here, is this normal behaviour.

The cash, the lack of receipts, the lack of registration with the PRTB, the taking ages to fix anything, the not answering my calls, the failure to provide a postal address after telling him threshold advised this, the quoting 50-100 on the last day of tenancy euro then landing me a month later with this bombshell, the accusation that i broke his old stuff (i didn't), the fridge (wtf is that about ), the redecorating costs, the failure to say any of this when he visited 2 weeks before i left.

I'm a good tenant, never had any problems before, live on my own, never have parties, work hard (often long hours) and always pay my rent on time.
Does it sound like i'm being taken advantage of.
Advise would be appreciated.

djimi

Take a case with the PRTB and let them sort it out. If he wants to hold onto your full deposit then he will have to justify everything with evidence of the damage and invoices to account for every penny that has been deducted.

Unfortunately it will mean you wont see the money (assuming you win) for quite a while, but there isnt really much more than you can do.

the world wonders

Does it sound like i'm being taken advantage of.

This clown is scamming you blind.

Lodge a dispute with the PRTB and don't forget to ask for the €75 "cleaning fee" which you foolishly agreed to back as well -- landlords are not allowed charge tenants for ordinary cleaning.

4th horsemen

cleaning etc is part and parcel of being a landlord.

As mentioned bring it up with PRTB, let him know u won't be bullied and hopefully by going to PRTB ir will bring a bit
of discomfort to his life.. d...head

djimi

the world wonders wrote: »

Lodge a dispute with the PRTB and don't forget to ask for the €75 "cleaning fee" which you foolishly agreed to back as well -- landlords are not allowed charge tenants for ordinary cleaning.

They can if they can show that the place was dirty beyond normal wear and tear, but they much use an agency to do the cleaning; a landlord is not permitted to put a price on their own time.

hfallada

OP you can take a case to the PRTB. But its extremely long and time consuming. I would tell the landlord that you want to see copies of receipts for these deductions. Tell him you are going to the PRTB and you will win.

I would try and settle without the PRTB because it will be extremely long before someone sees your case.

seb65

If he's not registered with PRTB, that may mean fines for him. He may also have failed to pay the appropriate tax.

If it was me, I would email him back and let him know his charges were not on and if I don't get my deposit back within 5 working days, I'll be forced to report him to the PRTB and bring my case to them.

marathonic

seb65 wrote: »

If he's not registered with PRTB, that may mean fines for him. He may also have failed to pay the appropriate tax.

If it was me, I would email him back and let him know his charges were not on and if I don't get my deposit back within 5 working days, I'll be forced to report him to the PRTB and bring my case to them.

I agree with this. If he's not registered with the PRTB, chances are he's not tax compliant.

If a landlord is not registered with the PRTB, they aren't even allowed to write interest on mortgage borrowings off against income in calculating tax.

The PRTB complaints process is a long, drawn-out, process but if you send an email telling him that you are taking up a case with the PRTB, he may back down and give the deposit back. Otherwise, he's likely to lose the case AND end up with fines and a big tax bill.

take everything

marathonic wrote: »

I agree with this. If he's not registered with the PRTB, chances are he's not tax compliant.

If a landlord is not registered with the PRTB, they aren't even allowed to write interest on mortgage borrowings off against income in calculating tax.

The PRTB complaints process is a long, drawn-out, process but if you send an email telling him that you are taking up a case with the PRTB, he may back down and give the deposit back. Otherwise, he's likely to lose the case AND end up with fines and a big tax bill.

I was thinking of mentioning prtb to him but I'm actually wondering at this stage what else this guy is capable of. He has my address.

Not registered with prtb.
Never gives receipts for cash.
All this stuff above.
I got caught badly with this guy.

djimi

Dont mention it to him then, just take your case and let them deal with it.

take everything

marathonic wrote: »

I agree with this. If he's not registered with the PRTB, chances are he's not tax compliant.

If a landlord is not registered with the PRTB, they aren't even allowed to write interest on mortgage borrowings off against income in calculating tax.

The PRTB complaints process is a long, drawn-out, process but if you send an email telling him that you are taking up a case with the PRTB, he may back down and give the deposit back. Otherwise, he's likely to lose the case AND end up with fines and a big tax bill.

Actually this is something I don't understand with this guy. Why, if he's not with the PRTB, would he risk not giving my deposit back and have me go to the PRTB.

Anyway, the only thing stopping me going to the PRTB is fear of repercussions down the road from this guy. If he's doing the other stuff what else is he capable of. I really am in two minds about this. Cut my losses and have nothing to do with him ever again. Or PRTB.

But as I say, I don't understand why he'd risk me going to the prtb if he's not with them.
Any takers on that.

cookie1977

take everything wrote: »

Actually this is something I don't understand with this guy. Why, if he's not with the PRTB, would he risk not giving my deposit back and have me go to the PRTB.

Anyway, the only thing stopping me going to the PRTB is fear of repercussions down the road from this guy. If he's doing the other stuff what else is he capable of. I really am in two minds about this. Cut my losses and have nothing to do with him ever again. Or PRTB.

But as I say, I don't understand why he'd risk me going to the prtb if he's not with them.
Any takers on that.

Because he's hoping you'll cave quickly and not bother trying to fight back as it could take time and hassle. Isn't that how all bullies work?

LemonWorld

OP I'd recommend going to the PRTB.

Was in a similar situation to yourself about 18 months ago. Moved out and was assured I'd get my deposit back in no time, then the landlord suddenly stopped answering my calls :rolleyes: I applied online to the PRTB and he returned the deposit to me by post within a week! I withdrew the complaint and moved on.

I'm not usually one of the "anti-landlord" brigade (every other LL I've dealt with have been really professional and excellent), but this guy was a complete chancer. Not PRTB registered, building regulations not even remotely adhered to, and I'm going to guess he was less than compliant with his tax.

Don't worry about "fear of repercussions from this guy"! Seriously! Worst case scenario is you're not going to get a reference from him!:eek: There's really little else he can actually do! He's a totally unprofessional LL - there are bodies in place to deal with eejits like him and protect good tenants like you, don't be afraid to use them.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot to mention that the LL didn't provide an address either! Jeez, I'm actually thinking we might even be on about the same person! It's such a headache, OP. Just persevere and it'll all get sorted soon!

Sligo1

take everything wrote: »

Actually this is something I don't understand with this guy. Why, if he's not with the PRTB, would he risk not giving my deposit back and have me go to the PRTB.

Anyway, the only thing stopping me going to the PRTB is fear of repercussions down the road from this guy. If he's doing the other stuff what else is he capable of. I really am in two minds about this. Cut my losses and have nothing to do with him ever again. Or PRTB.

But as I say, I don't understand why he'd risk me going to the prtb if he's not with them.
Any takers on that.

Because he's a bully and probably hoping you don't know your rights! My ex LL didnt give me my deposit back. House was immaculate. And like yours she had my address, wasnt registered with prtb and tbh was a bit of a nutcase. I was also afraid of what she might do or the repercussions as she had my new address and my home address.

Anyways I did take a case and got my full deposit back (€2000) plus €500 was awarded to me for her antics.

Don't let yourself be bullied by this guy. Tell him your going to PRTB, hopefully he will back down and give you your deposit. If he doesn't, then take a case. It could be a year before anything gets done but don't let yourself be walked over by this bully. He'll keep doing it to others aswell. Scumbag.

An Ri rua

Bad things happen to good people / nice people all the time. You have a decision to make:- take WHATEVER action is required to have your rights vindicated and therefore make the path easier for others (good landlords and good tenants) (and harder for shysters like him) or roll over and keep coming on here without taking any action.

No one likes conflict. But your rights are yours, not his to divvy out. So, calmly and objectively, email him with what your rights are, what he stands to lose and a timeline for next steps. YOU set the agenda, do not deviate from it and once you pull the trigger on a path / decision, then stick with it rigidly until you get your outcome. I did this about 15 years ago as a young buck with a non-paying new employer who had lured me out of a good company and role by lying. We went to the Employment Appeals Tribunal, along the way he tried to settle, but by the time a YEAR had gone around, I didn't need that paltry £600 sum, I needed my 'pound of flesh' ;-) I got it, he got it good, and he got it even better a few years later for crossing the ODCE. They tore him to shreds and he is now closed. So you see, by me raising his profile (he did, by letting a deadline pass and so I pulled a powerful trigger), he started on the slippery slope to oblivion.

I understand your trepidation as you are a nice person and don't operate in a ruthless fashion. So was/ am I. But you need to download some new mindware now and you need to write a VERY objective succinct scenario to your former landlord. Your and his rights, your and his responsibilities; but especially his risks. Be plain, be blunt. Be ruthless. You know what you are dealing with. Badheartedness. So toughen up, TAKE ACTION and save 'nice you' for the people who deserve it.

take everything

An Ri rua wrote: »

Bad things happen to good people / nice people all the time. You have a decision to make:- take WHATEVER action is required to have your rights vindicated and therefore make the path easier for others (good landlords and good tenants) (and harder for shysters like him) or roll over and keep coming on here without taking any action.

No one likes conflict. But your rights are yours, not his to divvy out. So, calmly and objectively, email him with what your rights are, what he stands to lose and a timeline for next steps. YOU set the agenda, do not deviate from it and once you pull the trigger on a path / decision, then stick with it rigidly until you get your outcome. I did this about 15 years ago as a young buck with a non-paying new employer who had lured me out of a good company and role by lying. We went to the Employment Appeals Tribunal, along the way he tried to settle, but by the time a YEAR had gone around, I didn't need that paltry £600 sum, I needed my 'pound of flesh' ;-) I got it, he got it good, and he got it even better a few years later for crossing the ODCE. They tore him to shreds and he is now closed. So you see, by me raising his profile (he did, by letting a deadline pass and so I pulled a powerful trigger), he started on the slippery slope to oblivion.

I understand your trepidation as you are a nice person and don't operate in a ruthless fashion. So was/ am I. But you need to download some new mindware now and you need to write a VERY objective succinct scenario to your former landlord. Your and his rights, your and his responsibilities; but especially his risks. Be plain, be blunt. Be ruthless. You know what you are dealing with. Badheartedness. So toughen up, TAKE ACTION and save 'nice you' for the people who deserve it.

Thanks everyone for the advice.
No tbh, i would not call myself a pushover either.
I know when i'm being fcuked over and this is definitely one of those times.
I generally have a good idea as well about what recourse there is for stuff like this (i've often gotten refunds on faulty stuff when i was getting the runaround from retailers etc). And often it's not about the money but the principle as well.

But the only (and i stress ONLY) thing holding me back from going to the PRTB with this guy at the moment is i really don't know what this guy is capable of: He deals in cash, no receipts, he's not registered with PRTB, the audacity of the claim that i owe him 200 euro (but he "won't follow me" for it), the contrast in his behaviour whenever i asked him to do something (acting dumb basically... "i'll see what i can do...") vs his behaviour when he was coming up with figures for his beloved mildew blinds and chair ("where's my inventory" etc... no dumb waiter act then).
All this gives me an uneasy sense about him.

This guy also lives in what i can only describe as a mansion so he wouldn't have any problems lawyering up i'd say. Or worse.
This "or worse" bit is only a vague sense i have and something i'm discussing with my family/anyone who can give me advice.

What i really want to do is find out how the person before me faired with him when he left. If this person challenged the deposit retention (the place was far worse around the time of his departure (incidentally subsequently cleaned up before my occupancy) so i'm assuming there was deposit retention) and if he did, did he live to tell the tale (as it were). :pac:
Stupidly i haven't got this persons details, but if anyone has any advice about how i might go about finding the details of previous tenants of an apartment (really longshot) this is something i could really use.

shroom007

take everything wrote: »

I was thinking of mentioning prtb to him but I'm actually wondering at this stage what else this guy is capable of. He has my address.

Not registered with prtb.
Never gives receipts for cash.
All this stuff above.
I got caught badly with this guy.

Screw him, Same ole Same ole scum landlord they all try it on because the PRTB is such a useless pile of ****,it takes months to get a decision and when they do the have no powers to enforce, tell the tax man

foggy_lad

take everything wrote: »

But the only (and i stress ONLY) thing holding me back from going to the PRTB with this guy at the moment is i really don't know what this guy is capable of: He deals in cash, no receipts, he's not registered with PRTB, the audacity of the claim that i owe him 200 euro (but he "won't follow me" for it), the contrast in his behaviour whenever i asked him to do something (acting dumb basically... "i'll see what i can do...") vs his behaviour when he was coming up with figures for his beloved mildew blinds and chair ("where's my inventory" etc... no dumb waiter act then).
All this gives me an uneasy sense about him.

You don't know what this guy is capable of, but if he does anything apart from give you your deposit back you have him by the bollix! Seriously what are you afraid of? do you think he might beat you up or shoot you?

Forget everything he is telling you as it is all lies and bullsh1t to get you to worry about what he might have up his sleeve. He wants you to fook off and he has a tried and tested way of achieving that by the way he is dealing with you so far.

Contact the PRTB and make a complaint, at this stage it is time to sh1t or get off the pot, You can't continue to complain about him while doing nothing about him and finding out information about previous tenants would be covered by the data protection legislation so forget that avenue.

Sligo1

Without giving out too much info here OP I felt EXACTLY as you did before I lodged my case with the PRTB. My ex landlady said she might even sue ME for all the so called damage id caused to her house. She lived in a mansion in a rich part of Dublin and her husband was some hot shot barrister.

I nearly started doubting myself and wondering had I indeed caused damage and maybe I should just leave her with my deposit incase she sued me and I ended up paying way more.

But I stuck to my guns as I knew I had left the house in good condition. Ended up getting my deposit back plus sum. And all in a cheque from her husbands private bank account. TBH I'd say he woulda been mortified at her behaviour and probably didnt want his name involved or published on adjudications part of the PRTB website.

ABajaninCork

Why haven't you reported this chancer to Revenue as well? You've nothing to be scared of. If anything, once the LL gets wind of the PRTB (not to mention the taxman!), he might very well church up your dough!

Duiske

foggy_lad wrote: »

You don't know what this guy is capable of, but if he does anything apart from give you your deposit back you have him by the bollix! Seriously what are you afraid of? do you think he might beat you up or shoot you?

Forget everything he is telling you as it is all lies and bullsh1t to get you to worry about what he might have up his sleeve. He wants you to fook off and he has a tried and tested way of achieving that by the way he is dealing with you so far.

Contact the PRTB and make a complaint, at this stage it is time to sh1t or get off the pot, You can't continue to complain about him while doing nothing about him and finding out information about previous tenants would be covered by the data protection legislation so forget that avenue.

Totally agree with this. Op, its a near certainty that this guy has pulled this stunt before, and if you let him get away with it he will certainly do it again. PRTB is the way to go with this. And don't worry about repercussions from this guy. Like all bully's he will back down when someone finally stands up to him.
People like this guy sicken me. They tarnish the good name of the vast majority of LL's who are more than happy to play by the rules.

take everything

Sligo1 wrote: »

Without giving out too much info here OP I felt EXACTLY as you did before I lodged my case with the PRTB. My ex landlady said she might even sue ME for all the so called damage id caused to her house. She lived in a mansion in a rich part of Dublin and her husband was some hot shot barrister.

I nearly started doubting myself and wondering had I indeed caused damage and maybe I should just leave her with my deposit incase she sued me and I ended up paying way more.

But I stuck to my guns as I knew I had left the house in good condition. Ended up getting my deposit back plus sum. And all in a cheque from her husbands private bank account. TBH I'd say he woulda been mortified at her behaviour and probably didnt want his name involved or published on adjudications part of the PRTB website.

Yeah i did actually doubt myself as well.
I really have to think about this.
Thanks

cookie1977

shroom007 wrote: »

Screw him, Same ole Same ole scum landlord they all try it on because the PRTB is such a useless pile of ****,it takes months to get a decision and when they do the have no powers to enforce, tell the tax man

Not all of us are like this and we'd like to see the back of those landlords that are just as much as you.

_Kaiser_

cookie1977 wrote: »

Not all of us are like this and we'd like to see the back of those landlords that are just as much as you.

He has a valid point though..

The PRTB is so painfully inefficient as to be practically useless to both tenants AND landlords.

This is why I always sigh at the well-meaning but impractical advice given on this forum. It's all very well to quote people how it SHOULD be done, but a bit pointless if there's no real way of enforcing it without a massive time commitment on your part.

This is why landlords try crap like this. It's why tenants walk away early or without paying the last month etc - because in the REAL WORLD tenancies in Ireland work a lot differently.

As I keep saying, until renting is seen by ALL SIDES (tenants, landlords and government/regulators) as a professional service/business transaction rather than a stepping stone to ownership or the option for the poor, the only real advice that can be offered is to work it out yourselves and the oh-so-typically-Irish "it depends on who you get".

cookie1977

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

He has a valid point though..

The PRTB is so painfully inefficient as to be practically useless to both tenants AND landlords.

This is why I always sigh at the well-meaning but impractical advice given on this forum. It's all very well to quote people how it SHOULD be done, but a bit pointless if there's no real way of enforcing it without a massive time commitment on your part.

This is why landlords try crap like this. It's why tenants walk away early or without paying the last month etc - because in the REAL WORLD tenancies in Ireland work a lot differently.

As I keep saying, until renting is seen by ALL SIDES (tenants, landlords and government/regulators) as a professional service/business transaction rather than a stepping stone to ownership or the option for the poor, the only real advice that can be offered is to work it out yourselves and the oh-so-typically-Irish "it depends on who you get".

agreed there.

djimi

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

This is why I always sigh at the well-meaning but impractical advice given on this forum. It's all very well to quote people how it SHOULD be done, but a bit pointless if there's no real way of enforcing it without a massive time commitment on your part.

I know full well when advising taking a PRTB case that its going to be a painful and drawn out process, but given that its the only legal route to dealing with an issue like this, Im not sure what is impractical about it? Do you know of a better (legal) way of sorting a situation like this one?

_Kaiser_

djimi wrote: »

I know full well when advising taking a PRTB case that its going to be a painful and drawn out process, but given that its the only legal route to dealing with an issue like this, Im not sure what is impractical about it? Do you know of a better (legal) way of sorting a situation like this one?

That's my point - there isn't one .. which is why people just hold on to the last month's rent instead.

In the REAL world most tenants can't afford to have that kind of money tied up for a year while they plod through the PRTB process and any landlord who is pulling this sort of shyte probably doesn't give a toss anyway.

If you (as in everyone) want tenants and landlords to behave, start treating the proposition seriously first! But in a country where property ownership is the holy grail of success and renting is still (despite the biggest crash in the country's history) seen as a joke/poor man's option, I wouldn't hold my breath to be honest.

All either side can really do is just hope they get a decent one, as there's very little practical/realistic "official" options if it goes pear-shaped.

shroom007

cookie1977 wrote: »

Not all of us are like this and we'd like to see the back of those landlords that are just as much as you.

Agreed but untill there is a system or organisation that has some teeth this will just keep repeating itself, be it an independant body holding Deposits or proper fines for agengy or private landlords. Given that a lot of deposits are also paid for by the DSP you'd think it might be put under more scrutiny.(But that might be too much to expect)

UCDVet

djimi wrote: »

I know full well when advising taking a PRTB case that its going to be a painful and drawn out process, but given that its the only legal route to dealing with an issue like this, Im not sure what is impractical about it? Do you know of a better (legal) way of sorting a situation like this one?

Serious question - is there ever any punitive damages as a result of the PRTB?

If I were landlord and tell the tenant - 'Oh yeah, looks great', take the keys, rent it out, and keep the deposit....won't the PRTB just (eventually) declare that the landlord must repay the deposit?

djimi

UCDVet wrote: »

Serious question - is there ever any punitive damages as a result of the PRTB?

If I were landlord and tell the tenant - 'Oh yeah, looks great', take the keys, rent it out, and keep the deposit....won't the PRTB just (eventually) declare that the landlord must repay the deposit?

Yes damages get awareded afaik. Someone said on here on yesterday that they were awarded €500 on top of their deposit back when a landlord tried to keep their deposit.

PRTB rulings are all publically available on their website; they make for quite an interesting read!

Sligo1

djimi wrote: »

Yes damages get awareded afaik. Someone said on here on yesterday that they were awarded €500 on top of their deposit back when a landlord tried to keep their deposit.

PRTB rulings are all publically available on their website; they make for quite an interesting read!

That would be me. The extra €500 was for the LL calling to the house without giving prior notice a few times. I had backed up (signed) statements to verify this from witnesses.