The European club rugby debacle continues part IV: the quest for peace

former legend

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Munster finished 6th last season and would have qualified under the new rules. The odds of any Italian team breaking into the top 6 or more that 2 Welsh teams being there in the short term are pretty low.

Yeah, exactly, I was just responding to the suggestions that an irish team would need to finish top 3 or 4 to be sure of qualifying.

So to summarise;
- top 5 finish = guaranteed qualification
- finish in 6th = very likely qualification
- finish in 7th = unlikely qualification but go into playoff.

VinLieger

Whatever about it being a good or bad deal for different countries or clubs, across the boards its **** for fans who now need to either pony up for two subscriptions or hope the one they go for will have their teams knock out matches.

I hope more people take shall we say the "alternative" route to watch these and show the Sky, BT and the other **** that created this monstrosity that they wont help line their pockets

Grandpa Hassan

VinLieger wrote: »

Whatever about it being a good or bad deal for different countries or clubs, across the boards its **** for fans who now need to either pony up for two subscriptions or hope the one they go for will have their teams knock out matches.

I hope more people take shall we say the "alternative" route to watch these and show the Sky, BT and the other **** that created this monstrosity that they wont help line their pockets

The problem is that I think the British consumer is much more relaxed about the joint coverage. Rugby and soccer fans have got used to it....you already need Sky and ESPN to watch premiership rugby. As a british consumer I really have no problems with it.

And you switch the BT broadband and you get it free (at least for now, and even if they do start charging, will be much cheaper than a standlone subscription)

I understand the Irish consumer being annoyed (Setanta isnt' cheap, as I recall) but unfortunately there aren't any stakeholders in this thing who are going to listen

minitrue

What really cracks me up is that the winner of the second tier competition will go into the play-offs if they haven't qualified otherwise but the winner of the top tier competition can only qualify by league position.

I also don't see anything yet confirming what is going to happen regarding seeding? The biggest flaw with the "old" format was the effective allocation of the 2nd place spots when the draw was made, with the rumoured plans now this is only going to be 1000 times worse, with the potential for a quarter-final line-up featuring only 2 or 3 of the best 8 sides in the pool stages.

Riskymove

minitrue wrote: »

What really cracks me up is that the winner of the second tier competition will go into the play-offs if they haven't qualified otherwise but the winner of the top tier competition can only qualify by league position.

I suppose the liklihood of the Champions being outside the qualifiers is pretty slim

I also don't see anything yet confirming what is going to happen regarding seeding? The biggest flaw with the "old" format was the effective allocation of the 2nd place spots when the draw was made, with the rumoured plans now this is only going to be 1000 times worse, with the potential for a quarter-final line-up featuring only 2 or 3 of the best 8 sides in the pool stages.

there are two issues here

1. Seeding
I heard there would only be 3 the winners of each league

2.
the keeping apart of teams from the same country - different to seeding but essential imo to avoid really silly groups

Eod100

Read that the final will be the first weekend in May at the latest. So quarter finals, semis and final to take place in 6 weeks between end of 6N (21/3) and 1st weekend in May. April's going to be fairly hectic so, presume they're gonna have to delay the Rabo matches usually played on those weekends (or at least the ones involving participants in the qfs and semis), so could have the Rabo season going into June?

Cookiemunster

Eod100 wrote: »

Read that the final will be the first weekend in May at the latest. So quarter finals, semis and final to take place in 6 weeks between end of 6N (21/3) and 1st weekend in May. April's going to be fairly hectic so, presume they're gonna have to delay the Rabo matches usually played on those weekends (or at least the ones involving participants in the qfs and semis), so could have the Rabo season going into June?

I'd say the last round of the Pro12, the semis and the final will be run off in 3 consecutive weeks. TBH I never really like the idea of the Pro12 final being on directly after the HEC final as it disadvantaged a team involved in both finals (And this is from a Munster fan who benefited from Leinster having to do this in 2011).

Goldstein

VinLieger wrote: »

Whatever about it being a good or bad deal for different countries or clubs, across the boards its **** for fans who now need to either pony up for two subscriptions or hope the one they go for will have their teams knock out matches.

I hope more people take shall we say the "alternative" route to watch these and show the Sky, BT and the other **** that created this monstrosity that they wont help line their pockets

Yes, despite all the triumphant spin it's a terrible deal for the fans watching on TV. Contrary to the press releases the coverage isn't being "shared", it's being split. Only the final will be shared.

I expect many to drop their Sky subscriptions now as a result like so many have when the same thing happened with soccer's premier league. It's pointless paying a lot of money for something you might not even get to enjoy. Unless you're prepared to bend over and shell out for two subscriptions a lot of additional fed up rugby fans will be looking to watch the matches down the local pub or via other means. If they really had decided to share the coverage for every match both would have benefitted from increased subscriptions. Now the opposite will happen and I don't feel a bit sorry for them.

Cookiemunster

Goldstein wrote: »

Yes, despite all the triumphant spin it's a terrible deal for the fans watching on TV. Contrary to the press releases the coverage isn't being "shared", it's being split. Only the final will be shared.

I expect many to drop their Sky subscriptions now as a result like so many have when the same thing happened with soccer's premier league. It's pointless paying a lot of money for something you might not even get to enjoy. Unless you're prepared to bend over and shell out for two subscriptions a lot of additional fed up rugby fans will be looking to watch the matches down the local pub or via other means. If they really had decided to share the coverage for every match both would have benefitted from increased subscriptions. Now the opposite will happen and I don't feel a bit sorry for them.

The thing is, while Sky may lose coverage of some of the Irish teams games, they're adding 33 Pro12 games next season. I personally won't be getting a setanta sub, but I won't be dropping Sky either.

stpaddy99

do setanta still exist, they were appalling

thomond2006

stpaddy99 wrote: »

do setanta still exist, they were appalling

Were they appalling? I thought Matt Williams and Franno's highlights show was excellent.

ktulu123

Used to love watching The Breakdown, pity Williams left

CatFromHue

On the TV side of things if you go with Eircom's eVision package that includes the BT Sports package you get BT1 and 2, both Setanta channels, and ESPN and the total cost of the regular package and the sports package is alot less than Sky + Sky Sports.

This season rugby wise I could watch game after game after game between Top14, Aviva, and Rabo.

legendary.xix

former legend wrote: »

So to summarise;
- top 5 finish = guaranteed qualification
- finish in 6th = very likely qualification
- finish in 7th = unlikely qualification but go into playoff.

Explained well, fair play!

I've looked at the Pro 12 table properly for the first time in ages. Surely the competition will be more competitive with less places on offer for the premier competition? The competition has been weak overall with teams effectively walking into the H Cup.

marienbad

Is it the finishing table before the play offs or after ?

Cookiemunster

marienbad wrote: »

Is it the finishing table before the play offs or after ?

Before.

icdg

CatFromHue wrote: »

On the TV side of things if you go with Eircom's eVision package that includes the BT Sports package you get BT1 and 2, both Setanta channels, and ESPN and the total cost of the regular package and the sports package is alot less than Sky + Sky Sports.

This season rugby wise I could watch game after game after game between Top14, Aviva, and Rabo.

The flip side is if you do plan in getting Sky Sports is that Sky Sports 3 & 4, on which ERC games have been shown on the past, are outside the scope of Ofcom's Wholesale Must Offer ruling and aren't available on eVision. UPC have them because they have always had them, from deals stemming back to days when Sky was less concerned with having content exclusive to its direct to home customers.

stpaddy99

will the extra money really help anyone as everyone will have it so I expect much of it will simply force up salaries?

vienne86

icdg wrote: »

The flip side is if you do plan in getting Sky Sports is that Sky Sports 3 & 4, on which ERC games have been shown on the past, are outside the scope of Ofcom's Wholesale Must Offer ruling and aren't available on eVision. UPC have them because they have always had them, from deals stemming back to days when Sky was less concerned with having content exclusive to its direct to home customers.

Is that true about matches being shown on Sky 3 and 4? I thought they were mainly on SS1.

former legend

vienne86 wrote: »

Is that true about matches being shown on Sky 3 and 4? I thought they were mainly on SS1.

It varies; for example, the HC quarter-finals were all on SS2 except the Leinster game which was on SS3.

icdg

Don't even need to go back that far to find one, Toulon v Leinster was on Sky Sports 3

As it happens they have mostly been on Sky Sports 2 to be fair. They'd rarely if ever be on Sky Sports 1 as there would be clashes with Super Sunday and Saturday Night Football. Sky are required to show Premier League football on Sky Sports 1 or 2 under pain of Ofcom extending Wholesale Must Offer to 3 and 4 if they don't.

irishbucsfan

stpaddy99 wrote: »

will the extra money really help anyone as everyone will have it so I expect much of it will simply force up salaries?

The English and French clubs are getting proportionately more of it.

The biggest impact will be on the Premiership, relatively speaking.

Dravokivich

legendary.xix wrote: »

Explained well, fair play!

I've looked at the Pro 12 table properly for the first time in ages. Surely the competition will be more competitive with less places on offer for the premier competition? The competition has been weak overall with teams effectively walking into the H Cup.

It only really is a concern for the Irish and Welsh teams as far as I understand. With each Pro12 Union being guaranteed a spot for their top finisher, Scotland and Italy still get the same representation as previously, right?

Podge_irl

Dravokivich wrote: »

It only really is a concern for the Irish and Welsh teams as far as I understand. With each Pro12 Union being guaranteed a spot for their top finisher, Scotland and Italy still get the same representation as previously, right?

Scotland & Italy had two before. Will more than likely have just one each now.

irishbucsfan

Dravokivich wrote: »

It only really is a concern for the Irish and Welsh teams as far as I understand. With each Pro12 Union being guaranteed a spot for their top finisher, Scotland and Italy still get the same representation as previously, right?

Well it depends on whether you mean the same representation in Europe or the same representation in the Heineken Cup.

Cookiemunster

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well it depends on whether you mean the same representation in Europe or the same representation in the Heineken Cup.

The Italians won't have the same representation in Europe. The had 6 and next season they're only guaranteed 2.

irishbucsfan

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The Italians won't have the same representation in Europe. The had 6 and next season they're only guaranteed 2.

No, they'll have 6. They are entering them into the new 3rd tier competition with the Russians, Georgians etc.

Although it isn't guarranteed they'll have 4 in that competition, but that's purely down to how many teams they want to put forward themselves I believe, they're being encouraged to put forward 4.

Larbre34

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, they'll have 6. They are entering them into the new 3rd tier competition with the Russians, Georgians etc.

FYP, we'll be in 1980 boycott mode by then.

Winters

Q&A with Mark McCafferty.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/european-peace-deal-simon-thomas-6991421

Warning, NSFW - may induce rage like fit.

Shows how much damage the Welsh clubs did to the unions' negotiations.

Larbre34

Winters wrote: »

Q&A with Mark McCafferty.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/european-peace-deal-simon-thomas-6991421

Warning, NSFW - may induce rage like fit.

Correct you are.

The patronising, mealy mouthed little gob****e. How naive the Welsh must be not to realise they have just been used as one would use a roll of Andrex and condescended to like a child with chronic special needs.

"The way they (the Welsh regions) have handled themselves over the last six months has been very impressive"

Yes, in its amateurishness.

"People love Anglo-Welsh competition and I think we can build that"

No they dont, and no you dont.