The European club rugby debacle continues part IV: the quest for peace

irishbucsfan

Guys stop fighting, this thread is a place of peace and love.

former legend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Guys stop fighting, this thread is a place of peace and love.

Yup, it's been like Woodstock most of the time.

I really hope the final of the new competition goes to Rome; the Italians were badly treated by ERC (or maybe the Italians didn't think they'd get enough of a crowd), but it would be a great start I think. I will be disgusted if it goes to Twickenham.

Maguined

How long before we find out how the money is split within the leagues? Who decides how it is split within the leagues? For the French and English do the unions decide or is it now under the control of the PRL and LNR? Though the Pro12 split will be more important, will it be split by union evenly or based on team participation?

j8wk2feszrnpao

former legend wrote: »

I really hope the final of the new competition goes to Rome

In the spirit of peace and love, and because this should have happened some time ago for the Italians, Rome should definitively be given a final (and not a token Amlin/Challenge final).

twinytwo

So correct me if I'm wrong, we gain nothing from this new system except slightly more money?? But we potentially lose a lot?

LeeroyJones

Has the idea of having the Pro12 involved in the playoffs been on the cards for a time now? First I heard of it was yesterday.

That little incentive could actually make a big difference in terms of the competitiveness. Using this season as a yardstick and that would have 7th-10th fighting it out this end of the season

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

So just to clarify, the final standings of this seasons rabo will determine the entry for this competition next season?

thomond2006

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

So just to clarify, the final standings of this seasons rabo will determine the entry for this competition next season?

Yes

The top finisher from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy all qualify. The other positions are determined by league position.

So currently Leinster, Glasgow, Ospreys and Treviso qualify as top finishers from their country with Munster, Ulster and Scarlets taking the remaining spots through overall league position.

LeeroyJones

Top side from each country and the remaining top 3 spots.
Currently Leinster, Glasgow, Ospreys & Treviso along with Munster, Ulster & Scarlets

twinytwo

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

So just to clarify, the final standings of this seasons rabo will determine the entry for this competition next season?

The way they have it it looks like Munster ulster Leinster ospreys Scarlets Glasgow and treviso

Damn you to hell leeroy and thomond

thomond2006

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Has the idea of having the Pro12 involved in the playoffs been on the cards for a time now? First I heard of it was yesterday.

That little incentive could actually make a big difference in terms of the competitiveness. Using this season as a yardstick and that would have 7th-10th fighting it out this end of the season

I'm fairly sure it was mentioned/rumoured before.

I think it will be good for the league in terms of keeping matches competitive. However I can't see much change in terms of top placed teams; with the Welsh teams losing some big names in the summer I think it will be Irish & Glasgow dominance next year too. It seems Treviso will be in the competition next year but their squad is being raided by Leicester and others.

its_phil

twinytwo wrote: »

So correct me if I'm wrong, we gain nothing from this new system except slightly more money?? But we potentially lose a lot?

I think I read a while back that the winners pot will increase. But I'm not sure

justsomebloke

Ok I've steered clear for large parts of this, so what is the story with welsh rugby for next year. Did they ever sort out their internal fighting and are central contracts still causing issues?

.ak

justsomebloke wrote: »

Ok I've steered clear for large parts of this, so what is the story with welsh rugby for next year. Did they ever sort out their internal fighting and are central contracts still causing issues?

From what I can gather they're distributing all the players to new Welsh regions such as Rycyng Meadro, Casties and Two-Lawns Rugby Club. Technically they're not in Wales but we're assured by the WRU that they are very much Welsh despite their Gallic origins.

twinytwo

So just to be on the safe side Munster Leinster and ulster need to finish top 3 every year if they want to play HC.

justsomebloke

twinytwo wrote: »

So just to be on the safe side Munster Leinster and ulster need to finish top 3 every year if they want to play HC.

technically top 4 as oppose to top 3,

twinytwo

justsomebloke wrote: »

technically top 4 as oppose to top 3,[/QUO

If it happens that one of the teams doesn't qualify they are ****ed without European revenue.

Eod100

twinytwo wrote: »

So just to be on the safe side Munster Leinster and ulster need to finish top 3 every year if they want to play HC.

Think so. It's a weird set-up really, as in this season it'll probably be Scarlets progressing, they're 6th atm, I know it's only 1 place behind Ospreys but for Ulster and Munster to (hopefully) progress they've to come 2nd and 3rd.

LeeroyJones

If there is a season where Leinster/Munster/Ulster don't qualify it will mean that a few teams have picked up their socks - which is no bad thing

thomond2006

LeeroyJones wrote: »

If there is a season where Leinster/Munster/Ulster don't qualify it will mean that a few teams have picked up their socks - which is no bad thing

I'd be surprised if any of the three fail to qualify for the next few years.

Hopefully Connacht can be really competitive in the second tier tournament and they don't lose too many supporters/STHs because of the loss of HEC rugby.

former legend

justsomebloke wrote: »

technically top 4 as oppose to top 3,

Top 5, no?

If one of the 'big' Irish provinces can't finish top 5 in the Rabo, then questions need to be asked.

Even then, I'd be confident enough in a playoff against the 7-th placed teams from the AP and T14.

twinytwo

LeeroyJones wrote: »

If there is a season where Leinster/Munster/Ulster don't qualify it will mean that a few teams have picked up their socks - which is no bad thing

That's all well and good, if for example Leinster failed to quality next year... What do you think the implications for the club would be?

LeeroyJones

twinytwo wrote: »

That's all well and good, if for example Leinster failed to quality next year... What do you think the implications for the club would be?

It would be a financial disaster. It would have an effect on Munster and Ulster too as extra funds could be put into Leinster to support such a problem

Having said this I would be as worried about that as I would be for Toulon getting relegated next year such is the state of the other Pro12 sides.

former legend

twinytwo wrote: »

That's all well and good, if for example Leinster failed to quality next year... What do you think the implications for the club would be?

No biggie, we'd just have to go out and raid the other provinces for their best players to make sure it didn't happen again.

By my reckoning, the only way an Irish province could finish sixth and not qualify is if the top five was made up of three Welsh and two Irish teams. So really, I'm not worried.

Riskymove

former legend wrote: »

Top 5, no?

as mentioned it depends on the make up of the top 5

if the table was 1 irish 2 welsh 3 scottish 4 italian

then 5, 6 and 7 were the other three irish teams they would all qualify so 7th would be enough

the required finishing position goes higher the fewer countries are represented in the top 4

justsomebloke

former legend wrote: »

Top 5, no?

The question was about what would Leinster/Ulster/Munster have to do, nobody mentioned Connacht and why I stipulated my answer with a technically:D

Riskymove

twinytwo wrote: »

So just to be on the safe side Munster Leinster and ulster need to finish top 3 every year if they want to play HC.

another way to look at it is, excluding the top placed Irish team, the next irish needs to finish above the second italian and scottish and third irish and welsh to be sure

and so on

molloyjh

justsomebloke wrote: »

Ok I've steered clear for large parts of this, so what is the story with welsh rugby for next year. Did they ever sort out their internal fighting and are central contracts still causing issues?

Still no sorted. Apparently the WRU have announced a central contracting scheme of sorts that the RRW still aren't happy with. That one will run for a while from the looks of it. But the RRW have no bargaining power at this stage. The AW Cup is gone (it was never really a possibility) and without that they have no tournament to play in other than the Pro12.

OldRio

The Welsh have only themselves to blame in this long drawn out saga. It must have been awful having the Welsh alongside you at those meetings. Sat at the same side of the table. Knowing full well they would jump ship when the English wiggled their arses at them.

Cookiemunster

former legend wrote: »

No biggie, we'd just have to go out and raid the other provinces for their best players to make sure it didn't happen again.

By my reckoning, the only way an Irish province could finish sixth and not qualify is if the top five was made up of three Welsh and two Irish teams. So really, I'm not worried.

Munster finished 6th last season and would have qualified under the new rules. The odds of any Italian team breaking into the top 6 or more that 2 Welsh teams being there in the short term are pretty low.