Disturbing 999 call in Cork

SpaceTime

Zambia wrote: »

112 is the standard emergency number for all mobile phones.

If your phone is on GSM , which it is, it will work.

It works from *ALL* Irish, UK and other EU landlines & mobiles. It's required to be implemented by EU law. (EEA countries too)
There is nothing complicated about it.

999 also continues to work in Ireland and the UK. Either number connects you to the same service.

dave1982

mitosis wrote: »

When did this happen? There is nothing on the news about a drowning in Cork.

It was on the 96fm there, they're resuming search this morning.

MilanPan!c

mathepac wrote: »

That's a problem with google maps. It's an even bigger problem if emergency call responders are solely reliant on google maps

Sadly, Googles maps is probably better than whatever state created computer program the tax layer paid through the nose to develop.


And aren't all of these call centres privatised these days anyway?

Blackbolt191

mathepac wrote: »

Utter nonsense. Any decent search algorithm given the search criteria "Patrick Street+Cork", "Patrick St+Cork","Patrick+Cork" oe even "Bridge+Cork" will produce a list of possible addresses / locations. Any call talker with the least bit of cop-on will guide a caller through a step-by-step process to identify their location as well as helping to calm them down if they are panicked / upset.

Ahh but you are presuming that the call taker was using a system that utilises a decent search algorithm, remember the emergency services are a services who's equipment is supplied by the vendor who submits the lowest quote not necessarily the vendor who can supply the best equipment.

MilanPan!c

Blackbolt191 wrote: »

Ahh but you are presuming that the call taker was using a system that utilises a decent search algorithm, remember the emergency services are a services who's equipment is supplied by the vendor who submits the lowest quote not necessarily the vendor who can supply the best equipment.

Not even necessarily the lowest quote...

AppleD

SpaceTime wrote: »

They can't use 911 as there are local phone numbers starting with 911 XXXX in quite a few areas. It may work on some mobile phones however. Mobiles recognise when 112 (or possibly other emergency numbers like 999 or 000 (Australia) or 08 (Japan)) are dialled. They then send a GSM emergency call message to the network and its connected to the network's 112 service.

911 etc aren't supported by the phone networks outside the US and Canada so, please don't ever publish anything saying they are as it can cause confusion. I've seen a few tourist articles implying that 911 works. It doesn't.

112 is the pan-European emergency number (and it usually works on GSM mobile phones almost anywhere in the world too)

999 is the legacy number for Ireland, the UK and also Poland.

They just keep both old numbers and 112 running in parallel as closing the old number would cause confusion.

112 always works and it will even override keylocks on phones and also will allow calls from phones with no SIM card or even try any available network (including ones you're not allowed to roam on). The phone will just grab any available network with a strong signal.

So it's a pretty useful number!

....

If that account of the call is accurate, I think the person needs to immediately speak to ComReg. They should also get on to the Minister for Communications, Pat Rabbitte's office.

Seems Dept of Comms is ultimately responsible for 112 / 999 call answering.

911 works in Ireland.

billie1b

SpaceTime wrote: »

999 is the legacy number for Ireland, the UK and also Poland.

With the amount of Irish people going go Poland now, to say '999 is the legacy number for Poland' is false and mis-leading, 999 in Poland will only get you Ambulance service and nothing else. There is 6 emergency numbers in Poland, 999 for Ambulance, 998 is for Fire, 997 is Police, 981 is road side assistance and 986 is the municipal Police.
If people are not familiar with these numbers the number they ring is 112 and an operator will put you through to the relevant authority.

pwurple

I frequently worry about how best to describe my home location to emergency services. My address is 'House Name', Road Name. There are no numbered houses on the road, and the road is about 6 miles long.

The house name certainly doesn't appear on google maps. I've the GPS location written on the wall in the kitchen, but it's a bloody long set of numbers to be calling out in an emergency, and it seems from the posts above that they are not used.

Any suggestions on what to use?

I heard the search in progress for that poor guy this weekend overhead, the coast guard helicopter was involved, and divers this morning and yesterday I've heard. I don't think the fire services would have been able to do much in any case. Cork city has those safety rings for throwing into the water on every quay... but in an emergency, in the dark, it's going to be hard to think of using those.

SpaceTime

AppleD wrote: »

911 works in Ireland.

I can 100% assure you it is *ABSOLUTELY NOT* supported by any Irish telecommunications network. It's not part of the national numbering plan, and will not be in the future.

The only two emergency numbers on phone networks (mobile and landline) in Ireland are 112 and 999 (same service on both numbers).

911 actually clashes with the numbering plan, and telephone numbers here can begin with 911. Like you have (071) 911 XXXX and possibly (01) 911 XXXX etc etc. So, it would actually be completely impossible to use 911 in the Irish numbering system.

For example, the Clarion Hotel in Sligo's phone numbers start with 911.

If you dial 911 (or 000 or 08 and some other emergency numbers) on some mobile phones, the handset itself will initiate a 112 call (GSM emergency call) instead. This is not a feature of the Irish telecommunications network, it's just how certain mobiles are programmed because they're sold in multiple jurisdictions with the same software.

If you dial 911 on a landline, you'll get a time out and a busy tone / wrong number message. The same if you dial it on a mobile that doesn't have it programmed into its software as an emergency number.

Dialling 911 will possibly work on some mobiles (as will 112 and 999 if you're in the US with the same mobiles). However, I wouldn't rely on it as you're not actually making a call using a real number. Your mobile's just intelligent enough to realise you're trying to make an emergency call and it calls 112 instead.

For the sake of avoiding confusion, please do not spread an urban myth that 911 works in Ireland. It is 100% definitely not at all supported by the telecommunications networks.

The last thing we need is people trying to dial 911 and getting "dooo deee dooo .. The number you have dialled is not in service!"

dave1982

dave1982 wrote: »

Sad thing is fire station is maybe 3 minutes away

The fire fighters could have watched him jump in but unless they have the equipment and the river is safe for them to go in then the jumper is in bother anyway.

In guessing the river would still have been quite swollen at the time.

SpaceTime

billie1b wrote: »

With the amount of Irish people going go Poland now, to say '999 is the legacy number for Poland' is false and mis-leading, 999 in Poland will only get you Ambulance service and nothing else. There is 6 emergency numbers in Poland, 999 for Ambulance, 998 is for Fire, 997 is Police, 981 is road side assistance and 986 is the municipal Police.
If people are not familiar with these numbers the number they ring is 112 and an operator will put you through to the relevant authority.

I'll correct my post!

POGAN

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The fire fighters could have watched him jump in but unless they have the equipment and the river is safe for them to go in then the jumper is in bother anyway.

In guessing the river would still have been quite swollen at the time.

The fire lads can make it to the river in 120 seconds if there not already on a call as the lads were telling me recently. They have the gear ready to go but even with that the river is so swollen no matter what time they get there it's very hard to get anyone back

Well done everyone out there last couple days still there at the moment

DouglasGunner

Saw the coast gard there yesterday morning. Its a horrific sight to see and a terrible feeling to have.
Thoughts go out to all concerned.

SpaceTime

The person who made this 112 or 999 call needs to make an urgent complaint to ComReg and the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Comreg: 01 804 9668 http://www.askcomreg.ie/about_us/contact_us.26.LE.asp

DCNER : 01 678 2000 http://www.dcner.gov.ie/

Phibsboro

DouglasGunner wrote: »

Saw the coast gard there yesterday morning. Its a horrific sight to see and a terrible feeling to have.
Thoughts go out to all concerned.

I can't find anything in any of the papers/news sites about this. Is this supposed to have happened in the recent flooding?

dave1982

http://www.thejournal.ie/search-man-rive-lee-cork-1307510-Feb2014/

NAVAL DIVERS ARE conducting search operations in the River Lee in Cork city today after reports of a man in his 20s going into the water in the early hours of this morning.
Valentia Coast Guard received a 999 call just before 5am today and gardaí and the fire service were called to the scene. The Coast Guard tasked its Crosshaven unit, a lifeboat and the Waterford rescue helicopter to the incident, with the search starting at 5.15am.
A spokesperson for the Coast Guard told TheJournal.ie that nothing has been found yet but units remain on scene.
Now naval divers are also conducting searches between Brian Boru Bridge and Michael Collins Bridge.

ratracer

SpaceTime wrote: »

The person who made this 112 or 999 call needs to make an urgent complaint to ComReg and the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Comreg: 01 804 9668 http://www.askcomreg.ie/about_us/contact_us.26.LE.asp

DCNER : 01 678 2000 http://www.dcner.gov.ie/

I would agree with this 100%, BUT, this whole thread has come from the FaceBook account of someone who witnessed what for him was a very traumatic event. The actual recording of the call may well have been very different and I would be reluctant to criticise the call taker without hearing the original call.

String

Most people from Cork would know exactly where the caller was describing, and every emergency service operator should 100% know or not have the job. It almost seems like the operator needs a location on a gps system and then that it sent to a gps in the fire brigade before they are allowed to leave the station from reading it, which obviously should not be the case. If any of the firefighters were told the location they would know. Wouldn't someone else be working with the operator on the phone to give instructions elsewhere?

ratracer

DrMorphine wrote: »

Most people from Cork would know exactly where the caller was describing, and every emergency service operator should 100% know or not have the job. It almost seems like the operator needs a location on a gps system and then that it sent to a gps in the fire brigade before they are allowed to leave the station from reading it, which obviously should not be the case. If any of the firefighters were told the location they would know. Wouldn't someone else be working with the operator on the phone to give instructions elsewhere?

Most people from Cork would, but emergency fire calls for the Munster region are handled through the Munster Regional Fire Control centre which is located in Limerick. The operator would take the call and then dispatch the relevant fire station. The operator would not know 100% of all locations in the country, that would be impossible. The problem lies with the system and not the call taker.

pwurple

ratracer wrote: »

Most people from Cork would, but emergency fire calls for the Munster region are handled through the Munster Regional Fire Control centre which is located in Limerick. The operator would take the call and then dispatch the relevant fire station. The operator would not know 100% of all locations in the country, that would be impossible. The problem lies with the system and not the call taker.

I agree the system is useless. But in all fairness, I'm from Cork and I'd have some idea where Grafton street is in Dublin, or O'Connell street. This wasn't some back of beyonds spot, it's Cork's main thoroughfare. Patrick's street. Smack bang center of the city.

Blackbolt191

DrMorphine wrote: »

Most people from Cork would know exactly where the caller was describing, and every emergency service operator should 100% know or not have the job.

Do you know the name and location of every street in every townland, town and city in Ireland? No one does not to mention there are so many repeated its an impossibility.

It almost seems like the operator needs a location on a gps system and then that it sent to a gps in the fire brigade before they are allowed to leave the station from reading it, which obviously should not be the case.

As previously stated we do not have GPS.

If any of the firefighters were told the location they would know.

And how was the controller supposed to know which fire station to contact

Wouldn't someone else be working with the operator on the phone to give instructions elsewhere?

No

The Emergency call system is not as great as people seem to think, they can only work off the information received. There is no use blaming the controller, instead blame the system they have to work with and as for calling for someones job because they do not know the name of every street in Ireland , I dont think I need to comment on that.

String

ratracer wrote: »

Most people from Cork would, but emergency fire calls for the Munster region are handled through the Munster Regional Fire Control centre which is located in Limerick. The operator would take the call and then dispatch the relevant fire station. The operator would not know 100% of all locations in the country, that would be impossible. The problem lies with the system and not the call taker.

I have never had to use emergency services myself, but now its probably easier for me to just ring local Garda instead and let them ring them for me. Response time is obviously going to be slow from a central location, there should be an operators in each county.. Could just situate them in a fire station or Garda building ffs.

String

Blackbolt191 wrote: »

The Emergency call system is not as great as people seem to think, they can only work off the information received. There is no use blaming the controller, instead blame the system they have to work with and as for calling for someones job because they do not know the name of every street in Ireland , I dont think I need to comment on that.

I'm talking about this particular case, which could of saved a life

Blackbolt191

DrMorphine wrote: »

So we have to rely on GPS which doesn't work for a lot of Ireland? I have never had to use emergency services myself, but now its probably easier for me to just ring local Garda instead and let them ring them for me. Response time is obviously going to be slow from a central location, there should be an operators in each county.. Could just situate them in a fire station or Garda building ffs.

No, the vast majority or the emergency services do not have access to GPS, every county used to have their own control but that was done away with years ago, I think Cork fire were one of the last to go to CAMP a few years ago.

Blackbolt191

DrMorphine wrote: »

I'm talking about this particular case, which could of saved a life

And what about the rest of the calls received where the same kind of thing happens , this is not an isolated case by any means, this one is just getting publicity.

Bang Bang

Some interesting posts here, one even calling the call takers "moronic robots", now that is charming, do Boards have a policy on verbal abuse!

As sad as this is the fact remains that the location given was 'incorrect' by name so the call taker is going to have difficulty pinpointing the location on the mapping system. However as soon as the general location is given, i.e.; Cork city centre then the mobilisation of crews is immediate, this is done by the dispatcher whilst the call taker is still gathering information. The system still requires a lock on the location so the call taker will aim to gather this as well as other information AND give out advice like running cardiac arrests over the phone. Now who was it that stated these people are "moronic robots":roll eyes:

Although the National Ambulance Service is receiving much bad publicity regarding waiting times there are the many other tales that go unmentioned. The call takers and dispatchers do a tough job and often go that extra mile to get a resource to somebody whilst working on poor location information. A dispatcher in the Dublin control won an international award two years ago after coordinating an out of country successful rescue.

ratracer

DrMorphine wrote: »

So we have to rely on GPS which doesn't work for a lot of Ireland? I have never had to use emergency services myself, but now its probably easier for me to just ring local Garda instead and let them ring them for me. Response time is obviously going to be slow from a central location, there should be an operators in each county.. Could just situate them in a fire station or Garda building ffs.

That was the case until 6-7 years ago. Each Garda, Fire or Ambulance district HQ would take calls for its area. So, for example, if you dialled 999 the operator would ask which service and which part of the country and direct you to the appropriate HQ. Now, the call centres have been centralised and when you ring 999/112, someone from BT will answer, ask you which service and put you through to a regional control centre for that service. In the fire service, the control centres are located in either Dublin ( still operated by Dublin Fire Brigade for now), Limerick for the Munster region, or castlebar in Mayo for the Connaught region. Both of these centres are operated/answered by civilian call takers working off prompt cards/screens. Modernisation for you huh??

Also, it is inaccurate to say we can rely on GPS, we cannot. The caller will have to give visual landmarks and directions to where they want the emergency services to attend.

ratracer

pwurple wrote: »

I agree the system is useless. But in all fairness, I'm from Cork and I'd have some idea where Grafton street is in Dublin, or O'Connell street. This wasn't some back of beyonds spot, it's Cork's main thoroughfare. Patrick's street. Smack bang center of the city.

I would know where Grafton Street is also, but I wouldn't know which fire station would repond to it. Also, what if the controller sent the fire brigade out to the wrong location, or even the wrong bank of the river, would that not be just as 'incompetent' as some have made out (not you btw..)

SpaceTime

ratracer wrote: »

I would agree with this 100%, BUT, this whole thread has come from the FaceBook account of someone who witnessed what for him was a very traumatic event. The actual recording of the call may well have been very different and I would be reluctant to criticise the call taker without hearing the original call.

The person making the Facebook post should make contact with ComReg themselves.
This should be fully investigated.

Thoie

DrMorphine wrote: »

I'm talking about this particular case, which could of saved a life

To be honest, having pulled someone out of the Lee myself many years ago (which still haunts me), if the guy disappeared during the space of that phone call, the emergency services may not have arrived on time even if the address had been recognised immediately. The river moves fast at the best of times, and with a run on the river, and if the tide was on the way out, the victim's best hopes would have been for someone to throw him a life buoy (which are situated all along the river), and hang on to the other end until help arrived.