Disturbing 999 call in Cork

dave1982 · 10-02-2014 12:14AM #1

This is floating round facebook, guy called 999 for help with man in river Lee.

I don't know the guy so not 100% how true it is but

https://www.facebook.com/steve.ish.1/posts/10152225296369785

For those not on facebook.

Just saw a guy drown....I called emergency services and asked for cork city services, I asked for an ambulance and fire brigade.....when asked my location I said Patrick's bridge city centre, I was then asked where that was, could I perhaps name the closest street....I said Patrick street.....I was then asked was I in Fermoy or Middleton.......I said CORK CITY.....she said she couldn't locate it......at this point the guy had drifted as far as Parnell place (just by the bus station) at which point he had gone under......so I told the way too calm and collected idiot on the phone that we were by cork city bus station on Parnell place.......she responded......nope, can't find that either.......
Somebody on the other side of the river had rang too as we ran into each other on the bridge......his call arrived....but the guy was gone..
The men who arrived were doing the best they could......

But once again, what's the ****in point in having emergency service numbers when they treat you like your ordering a ****in pizza and that time is not a factor on the ****in phone.....

AND....how ****in slow do you have to be to not be able to find PATRICKS ****ING BRIDGE if your the operator for CORK ****IN CITY.........

Finally to the guy who was in the water I'm sorry.

hfallada · 10-02-2014 12:29AM

This call is the reason was postcodes. A postcode would help emergency services with the fact there is several towns in Ireland with same name across dozens of countries. His many o connell streets in Ireland?

But you have to question why the operator didn't get the help of someone who knew cork

goldie fish · 10-02-2014 12:30AM

Oddly enough, none of the streets mentioned appear as they are on Google maps. Patricks Bridge is bridge street, and Parnell place, is there, but the river is on Merchants Quay, with no mention of the Bus Depot.

Zillah · 10-02-2014 12:33AM

hfallada wrote: »

This call is the reason was postcodes. A postcode would help emergency services with the fact there is several towns in Ireland with same name across dozens of countries. His many o connell streets in Ireland?

But you have to question why the operator didn't get the help of someone who knew cork

Ehh...
"I've just seen a man fall into a river! Please send help!"
"Ok, what's the postcode for the river?"
"UY7K99"
"On the way!"

Blackbolt191 · 10-02-2014 01:21AM

That is because there is no Patrick street/bridge in Cork, its St Patricks street/bridge, the calltaker, if they were not a local would have no idea that St Patricks street/bridge is colloquially known as Patrick street/bridge. If they put Patrick street/bridge Cork City into their computer nothing would come up.

I totally agree that what we need is postcodes and that those postcodes need to be clearly visible on each street and roadsign. There is no use in using post codes for emergencies if a non local has no idea what the postcode is.

Thoie · 10-02-2014 01:37AM

Blackbolt191 wrote: »

That is because there is no Patrick street/bridge in Cork, its St Patricks street/bridge, the calltaker, if they were not a local would have no idea that St Patricks street/bridge is colloquially known as Patrick street/bridge. If they put Patrick street/bridge Cork City into their computer nothing would come up.

I totally agree that what we need is postcodes and that those postcodes need to be clearly visible on each street and roadsign. There is no use in using post codes for emergencies if a non local has no idea what the postcode is.

I've been in the horrible situation of having to make that call, and postcodes won't help. They'd have to have them about every 5 meters for people that don't know the area.

Postcodes (like the UK ones) are great for getting an ambulance to the right house, and you'll know the postcode for your own house. For public areas, they're not that useful.

For example, I zoomed into a particular road in the UK on google maps. The location I picked (at random) was 51.404433,-1.46313

If you do a "what's here" it tells you that area is Hungerford Rd, Kintbury, Hungerford, West Berkshire RG17, UK. If you then just do a map search for RG17, the location is not precise enough for an ambulance. RG17 brings you to a spot about 3 or 4 miles away.

DesertCreat_15 · 10-02-2014 01:42AM

Surely Cork City Bus station would have been self explanatory?

dobman88 · 10-02-2014 01:45AM

DesertCreat_15 wrote: »

Surely Cork City Bus station would have been self explanatory?

Go to google maps and type in "Cork city bus station" and about 20 different options pop up. Not as simple as that

Thoie · 10-02-2014 01:50AM

Blackbolt191 wrote: »

That is because there is no Patrick street/bridge in Cork, its St Patricks street/bridge, the calltaker, if they were not a local would have no idea that St Patricks street/bridge is colloquially known as Patrick street/bridge. If they put Patrick street/bridge Cork City into their computer nothing would come up.

In fairness, if any Irish person told me a street was called anything like Patrick's or Joseph's or any first name, and I couldn't find it, I'd look for St Patrick, St Joseph, etc. Generally our roads are surnames or random place/objects (Youghal Road, Cork Road, Pinemeadowcopse Street), and if they're first names they're usually saints. Same goes for hospitals. If someone told me Fred's in hospital in Jameseseses, Luke's or Pat's, I'd look for a St James', St Luke's or St Patrick's hospital.

DesertCreat_15 · 10-02-2014 01:51AM

dobman88 wrote: »

Go to google maps and type in "Cork city bus station" and about 20 different options pop up. Not as simple as that

How many Bus stations (not stops) has Cork City got? Also in the vicinity of the river?

http://imgur.com/TpLC5HJ

Also, I'm sure ambulance/fire crews would be aware of where the bus station is in Cork City, especially since its pretty much alongside the river!

Think_then_talk · 10-02-2014 01:55AM

As far as I can recall 999/112 don't need a post code or an address of the caller they use Gps.

dobman88 · 10-02-2014 01:56AM

DesertCreat_15 wrote: »

How many Bus stations (not stops) has Cork City got? Also in the vicinity of the river?

Yes, I agree 100% with you but if you tell some moronic robot in a call centre "cork city bus station" and they get the 20+ suggestions google maps throws up then you get nowhere. One of my best friends drowned in the Lee 3 years ago on his way to a college ball and he was well and truly gone by the time the "emergency services" got there.

Chances are the person making the call was in a panic too but the current system really needs to be clearer. Maybe localised call centres but that costs money :rolleyes:

dobman88 · 10-02-2014 01:56AM

Think_then_talk wrote: »

As far as I can recall 999/112 don't need a post code or an address of the caller they use Gps.

Wrong, 999 is Ireland and UK. 112 is Europe.

Think_then_talk · 10-02-2014 01:58AM

dobman88 wrote: »

Wrong, 999 is Ireland and UK. 112 is Europe.

http://www.irishexaminerusa.com/mt/2009/05/20/bt_wins_contract_to_operate_ir.html

Here's the link...

Thoie · 10-02-2014 01:58AM

so I told the way too calm and collected idiot on the phone

The people answering emergency calls are trained to be calm and collected, in order to do their job better. If you rang for an ambulance and said a bus full of people has crashed, you don't want the call taker having a fit of the vapours. Part of their job is to keep everything calm, and try calm you down so that they can gather as much information from you as possible.

Everyone ringing 999 (or 112) is in a panic. If you're on the phone to them, you're watching someone's house burn down, or someone's life is in danger, or there's a crime in progress. Your heart is in your mouth, you're stumbling over your words, and all you want is for someone to come NOW. Their job is to get you coherent enough to give an exact location (at which point they can start dispatching), a description of the problem, and guide you how to help, if feasible.

SpaceTime · 10-02-2014 02:01AM

Postcodes wouldn't have been any use in that situation. I would expect the operator to be able to identify major land marks in any of the major cities and towns they're covering.

You could find that on Google Maps instantaneously! (just typed in Patrick's Bridge Cork and it located it accurately and instantly)

Regional command centres would make more sense than this idea that you can cover the whole country with a single call centre.

Thoie · 10-02-2014 02:03AM

dobman88 wrote: »

Wrong, 999 is Ireland and UK. 112 is Europe.

It's been 112 for a billion years (at least 10). 999 was unique to UK and Ireland. It runs in parallel with 112 (the all-Europe number) because, as you've demonstrated nicely, Irish/UK people don't seem to have paid attention to the transition campaign they ran.

I'm not sure if it's true, but I heard there were talks to introduce 911 as a third emergency number here, because so many people are used to watching American TV and hearing "Call 911" that they were trying to use it here. <-- Not true!

Mr Simpson · 10-02-2014 02:04AM

dobman88 wrote: »

Wrong, 999 is Ireland and UK. 112 is Europe.

Both number get you through to emergency services in Ireland

SpaceTime · 10-02-2014 02:07AM

Thoie wrote: »

It's been 112 for a billion years (at least 10). 999 was unique to UK and Ireland. It runs in parallel with 112 (the all-Europe number) because, as you've demonstrated nicely, Irish/UK people don't seem to have paid attention to the transition campaign they ran.

I'm not sure if it's true, but I heard there were talks to introduce 911 as a third emergency number here, because so many people are used to watching American TV and hearing "Call 911" that they were trying to use it here.

They can't use 911 as there are local phone numbers starting with 911 XXXX in quite a few areas. It may work on some mobile phones however. Mobiles recognise when 112 (or possibly other emergency numbers like 999 or 000 (Australia) or 08 (Japan)) are dialled. They then send a GSM emergency call message to the network and its connected to the network's 112 service.

911 etc aren't supported by the phone networks outside the US and Canada so, please don't ever publish anything saying they are as it can cause confusion. I've seen a few tourist articles implying that 911 works. It doesn't.

112 is the pan-European emergency number (and it usually works on GSM mobile phones almost anywhere in the world too)

999 is the legacy number for Ireland, the UK (also Poland's ambulance service only). 999 gets used in Hong Kong and Malaysia and a few other spots around the world too mostly where there was a UK influence on the early days of the development of the telecommunications network.

They just keep both old numbers and 112 running in parallel as closing the old number would cause confusion.

112 always works and it will even override keylocks on phones and also will allow calls from phones with no SIM card or even try any available network (including ones you're not allowed to roam on). The phone will just grab any available network with a strong signal.

So it's a pretty useful number!

....

If that account of the call is accurate, I think the person needs to immediately speak to ComReg. They should also get on to the Minister for Communications, Pat Rabbitte's office.

Seems Dept of Comms is ultimately responsible for 112 / 999 call answering.

blee23 · 10-02-2014 02:15AM

Shocking altogether

Blackbolt191 · 10-02-2014 02:19AM

Think_then_talk wrote: »

As far as I can recall 999/112 don't need a post code or an address of the caller they use Gps.

Don't I wish, no we don't use gps, most ES vehicles are not equipped for it.

dobman88 · 10-02-2014 02:22AM

Thoie wrote: »

It's been 112 for a billion years (at least 10). 999 was unique to UK and Ireland. It runs in parallel with 112 (the all-Europe number) because, as you've demonstrated nicely, Irish/UK people don't seem to have paid attention to the transition campaign they ran.

I'm not sure if it's true, but I heard there were talks to introduce 911 as a third emergency number here, because so many people are used to watching American TV and hearing "Call 911" that they were trying to use it here. <-- Not true!

Mr Simpson wrote: »

Both number get you through to emergency services in Ireland

I am well aware that 999 and 112 get you through to services in Ireland, my point was that 112 can be used in Europe and 999 is Ireland and UK.

I said "wrong" at the start of my post because they don't use GPS as the post I quoted stated they did.

SpaceTime · 10-02-2014 02:22AM

Blackbolt191 wrote: »

Don't I wish, no we don't use gps, most ES vehicles are not equipped for it.

That's utterly crazy given the low cost of GPS equipment these days.

Blackbolt191 · 10-02-2014 02:24AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

That's utterly crazy given the low cost of GPS equipment these days.

Oh trust me, speak to any members of the ES about it and you will be preaching to the choir

SpaceTime · 10-02-2014 02:26AM

dobman88 wrote: »

I am well aware that 999 and 112 get you through to services in Ireland, my point was that 112 can be used in Europe and 999 is Ireland and UK.

I said "wrong" at the start of my post because they don't use GPS as the post I quoted stated they did.

112 is intended to replace a vast array of European countries' emergency numbers, including 999. There was a lot of confusion as every country had its own emergency numbers in the past.

The whole point is 112 just works everywhere in the EU.

999 really shouldn't be the number being advertised so heavily. At this stage most EU countries other than the UK and Ireland prominently advertise 112 on ambulances, fire vechicles etc etc

mathepac · 10-02-2014 04:24AM

dobman88 wrote: »

Go to google maps and type in "Cork city bus station" and about 20 different options pop up. ...

That's a problem with google maps. It's an even bigger problem if emergency call responders are solely reliant on google maps

mathepac · 10-02-2014 04:37AM

Blackbolt191 wrote: »

That is because there is no Patrick street/bridge in Cork, its St Patricks street/bridge, the calltaker, if they were not a local would have no idea that St Patricks street/bridge is colloquially known as Patrick street/bridge. If they put Patrick street/bridge Cork City into their computer nothing would come up. ...

Utter nonsense. Any decent search algorithm given the search criteria "Patrick Street+Cork", "Patrick St+Cork","Patrick+Cork" oe even "Bridge+Cork" will produce a list of possible addresses / locations. Any call talker with the least bit of cop-on will guide a caller through a step-by-step process to identify their location as well as helping to calm them down if they are panicked / upset.

dave1982 · 10-02-2014 08:12AM

Sad thing is fire station is maybe 3 minutes away

crazygeryy · 10-02-2014 08:16AM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Muppet post:mad::mad::mad:

Your dead right.my apologies to all concerned. Posting when drunk is a dumb idea.again apologies.

mitosis · 10-02-2014 08:25AM

When did this happen? There is nothing on the news about a drowning in Cork.

Zambia · 10-02-2014 08:29AM

112 is the standard emergency number for all mobile phones.

If your phone is on GSM , which it is, it will work.

Now in light of the call the first step for the call taker is to input it in to a call system. The first dispatch question would be were is the crew needed.

Now chances are the call taker needs to get the location right prior to proceeding to scenario.

In the old days calls would be hand written and placed on job cards but I assume things have progressed.

SpaceTime · 10-02-2014 09:06AM

Zambia wrote: »

112 is the standard emergency number for all mobile phones.

If your phone is on GSM , which it is, it will work.

It works from *ALL* Irish, UK and other EU landlines & mobiles. It's required to be implemented by EU law. (EEA countries too)
There is nothing complicated about it.

999 also continues to work in Ireland and the UK. Either number connects you to the same service.

dave1982 · 10-02-2014 09:16AM

mitosis wrote: »

When did this happen? There is nothing on the news about a drowning in Cork.

It was on the 96fm there, they're resuming search this morning.

MilanPan!c · 10-02-2014 09:16AM

mathepac wrote: »

That's a problem with google maps. It's an even bigger problem if emergency call responders are solely reliant on google maps

Sadly, Googles maps is probably better than whatever state created computer program the tax layer paid through the nose to develop.

And aren't all of these call centres privatised these days anyway?

Blackbolt191 · 10-02-2014 09:28AM

mathepac wrote: »

Utter nonsense. Any decent search algorithm given the search criteria "Patrick Street+Cork", "Patrick St+Cork","Patrick+Cork" oe even "Bridge+Cork" will produce a list of possible addresses / locations. Any call talker with the least bit of cop-on will guide a caller through a step-by-step process to identify their location as well as helping to calm them down if they are panicked / upset.

Ahh but you are presuming that the call taker was using a system that utilises a decent search algorithm, remember the emergency services are a services who's equipment is supplied by the vendor who submits the lowest quote not necessarily the vendor who can supply the best equipment.

MilanPan!c · 10-02-2014 09:47AM

Blackbolt191 wrote: »

Ahh but you are presuming that the call taker was using a system that utilises a decent search algorithm, remember the emergency services are a services who's equipment is supplied by the vendor who submits the lowest quote not necessarily the vendor who can supply the best equipment.

Not even necessarily the lowest quote...

AppleD · 10-02-2014 10:05AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

They can't use 911 as there are local phone numbers starting with 911 XXXX in quite a few areas. It may work on some mobile phones however. Mobiles recognise when 112 (or possibly other emergency numbers like 999 or 000 (Australia) or 08 (Japan)) are dialled. They then send a GSM emergency call message to the network and its connected to the network's 112 service.

911 etc aren't supported by the phone networks outside the US and Canada so, please don't ever publish anything saying they are as it can cause confusion. I've seen a few tourist articles implying that 911 works. It doesn't.

112 is the pan-European emergency number (and it usually works on GSM mobile phones almost anywhere in the world too)

999 is the legacy number for Ireland, the UK and also Poland.

They just keep both old numbers and 112 running in parallel as closing the old number would cause confusion.

112 always works and it will even override keylocks on phones and also will allow calls from phones with no SIM card or even try any available network (including ones you're not allowed to roam on). The phone will just grab any available network with a strong signal.

So it's a pretty useful number!

....

If that account of the call is accurate, I think the person needs to immediately speak to ComReg. They should also get on to the Minister for Communications, Pat Rabbitte's office.

Seems Dept of Comms is ultimately responsible for 112 / 999 call answering.

911 works in Ireland.

billie1b · 10-02-2014 10:34AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

999 is the legacy number for Ireland, the UK and also Poland.

With the amount of Irish people going go Poland now, to say '999 is the legacy number for Poland' is false and mis-leading, 999 in Poland will only get you Ambulance service and nothing else. There is 6 emergency numbers in Poland, 999 for Ambulance, 998 is for Fire, 997 is Police, 981 is road side assistance and 986 is the municipal Police.
If people are not familiar with these numbers the number they ring is 112 and an operator will put you through to the relevant authority.

pwurple · 10-02-2014 10:48AM

I frequently worry about how best to describe my home location to emergency services. My address is 'House Name', Road Name. There are no numbered houses on the road, and the road is about 6 miles long.

The house name certainly doesn't appear on google maps. I've the GPS location written on the wall in the kitchen, but it's a bloody long set of numbers to be calling out in an emergency, and it seems from the posts above that they are not used.

Any suggestions on what to use?

I heard the search in progress for that poor guy this weekend overhead, the coast guard helicopter was involved, and divers this morning and yesterday I've heard. I don't think the fire services would have been able to do much in any case. Cork city has those safety rings for throwing into the water on every quay... but in an emergency, in the dark, it's going to be hard to think of using those.

SpaceTime · 10-02-2014 11:18AM

AppleD wrote: »

911 works in Ireland.

I can 100% assure you it is *ABSOLUTELY NOT* supported by any Irish telecommunications network. It's not part of the national numbering plan, and will not be in the future.

The only two emergency numbers on phone networks (mobile and landline) in Ireland are 112 and 999 (same service on both numbers).

911 actually clashes with the numbering plan, and telephone numbers here can begin with 911. Like you have (071) 911 XXXX and possibly (01) 911 XXXX etc etc. So, it would actually be completely impossible to use 911 in the Irish numbering system.

For example, the Clarion Hotel in Sligo's phone numbers start with 911.

If you dial 911 (or 000 or 08 and some other emergency numbers) on some mobile phones, the handset itself will initiate a 112 call (GSM emergency call) instead. This is not a feature of the Irish telecommunications network, it's just how certain mobiles are programmed because they're sold in multiple jurisdictions with the same software.

If you dial 911 on a landline, you'll get a time out and a busy tone / wrong number message. The same if you dial it on a mobile that doesn't have it programmed into its software as an emergency number.

Dialling 911 will possibly work on some mobiles (as will 112 and 999 if you're in the US with the same mobiles). However, I wouldn't rely on it as you're not actually making a call using a real number. Your mobile's just intelligent enough to realise you're trying to make an emergency call and it calls 112 instead.

For the sake of avoiding confusion, please do not spread an urban myth that 911 works in Ireland. It is 100% definitely not at all supported by the telecommunications networks.

The last thing we need is people trying to dial 911 and getting "dooo deee dooo .. The number you have dialled is not in service!"

10-02-2014 11:21AM

dave1982 wrote: »

Sad thing is fire station is maybe 3 minutes away

The fire fighters could have watched him jump in but unless they have the equipment and the river is safe for them to go in then the jumper is in bother anyway.

In guessing the river would still have been quite swollen at the time.

SpaceTime · 10-02-2014 11:33AM

billie1b wrote: »

With the amount of Irish people going go Poland now, to say '999 is the legacy number for Poland' is false and mis-leading, 999 in Poland will only get you Ambulance service and nothing else. There is 6 emergency numbers in Poland, 999 for Ambulance, 998 is for Fire, 997 is Police, 981 is road side assistance and 986 is the municipal Police.
If people are not familiar with these numbers the number they ring is 112 and an operator will put you through to the relevant authority.

I'll correct my post!

POGAN · 10-02-2014 11:34AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The fire fighters could have watched him jump in but unless they have the equipment and the river is safe for them to go in then the jumper is in bother anyway.

In guessing the river would still have been quite swollen at the time.

The fire lads can make it to the river in 120 seconds if there not already on a call as the lads were telling me recently. They have the gear ready to go but even with that the river is so swollen no matter what time they get there it's very hard to get anyone back

Well done everyone out there last couple days still there at the moment

DouglasGunner · 10-02-2014 11:38AM

Saw the coast gard there yesterday morning. Its a horrific sight to see and a terrible feeling to have.
Thoughts go out to all concerned.

SpaceTime · 10-02-2014 11:42AM

The person who made this 112 or 999 call needs to make an urgent complaint to ComReg and the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Comreg: 01 804 9668 http://www.askcomreg.ie/about_us/contact_us.26.LE.asp

DCNER : 01 678 2000 http://www.dcner.gov.ie/

Phibsboro · 10-02-2014 11:46AM

DouglasGunner wrote: »

Saw the coast gard there yesterday morning. Its a horrific sight to see and a terrible feeling to have.
Thoughts go out to all concerned.

I can't find anything in any of the papers/news sites about this. Is this supposed to have happened in the recent flooding?

dave1982 · 10-02-2014 11:55AM

http://www.thejournal.ie/search-man-rive-lee-cork-1307510-Feb2014/

NAVAL DIVERS ARE conducting search operations in the River Lee in Cork city today after reports of a man in his 20s going into the water in the early hours of this morning.
Valentia Coast Guard received a 999 call just before 5am today and gardaí and the fire service were called to the scene. The Coast Guard tasked its Crosshaven unit, a lifeboat and the Waterford rescue helicopter to the incident, with the search starting at 5.15am.
A spokesperson for the Coast Guard told TheJournal.ie that nothing has been found yet but units remain on scene.
Now naval divers are also conducting searches between Brian Boru Bridge and Michael Collins Bridge.

ratracer · 10-02-2014 12:32PM

SpaceTime wrote: »

The person who made this 112 or 999 call needs to make an urgent complaint to ComReg and the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Comreg: 01 804 9668 http://www.askcomreg.ie/about_us/contact_us.26.LE.asp

DCNER : 01 678 2000 http://www.dcner.gov.ie/

I would agree with this 100%, BUT, this whole thread has come from the FaceBook account of someone who witnessed what for him was a very traumatic event. The actual recording of the call may well have been very different and I would be reluctant to criticise the call taker without hearing the original call.

String · 10-02-2014 12:35PM

Most people from Cork would know exactly where the caller was describing, and every emergency service operator should 100% know or not have the job. It almost seems like the operator needs a location on a gps system and then that it sent to a gps in the fire brigade before they are allowed to leave the station from reading it, which obviously should not be the case. If any of the firefighters were told the location they would know. Wouldn't someone else be working with the operator on the phone to give instructions elsewhere?

ratracer · 10-02-2014 12:40PM

DrMorphine wrote: »

Most people from Cork would know exactly where the caller was describing, and every emergency service operator should 100% know or not have the job. It almost seems like the operator needs a location on a gps system and then that it sent to a gps in the fire brigade before they are allowed to leave the station from reading it, which obviously should not be the case. If any of the firefighters were told the location they would know. Wouldn't someone else be working with the operator on the phone to give instructions elsewhere?

Most people from Cork would, but emergency fire calls for the Munster region are handled through the Munster Regional Fire Control centre which is located in Limerick. The operator would take the call and then dispatch the relevant fire station. The operator would not know 100% of all locations in the country, that would be impossible. The problem lies with the system and not the call taker.

pwurple · 10-02-2014 12:46PM

ratracer wrote: »

Most people from Cork would, but emergency fire calls for the Munster region are handled through the Munster Regional Fire Control centre which is located in Limerick. The operator would take the call and then dispatch the relevant fire station. The operator would not know 100% of all locations in the country, that would be impossible. The problem lies with the system and not the call taker.

I agree the system is useless. But in all fairness, I'm from Cork and I'd have some idea where Grafton street is in Dublin, or O'Connell street. This wasn't some back of beyonds spot, it's Cork's main thoroughfare. Patrick's street. Smack bang center of the city.

Disturbing 999 call in Cork

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