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Budget brand tyres

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    #62
    SleeperService
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭SleeperService


    CiniO wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm actually pretty good at physics.
    And I can't see any reasons for crap tyres to grip worse on heavy car.

    For the same reason you cant make a passat corner like a mini. Force = mass x acceleration.


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    #63
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    SleeperService wrote: »
    For the same reason you cant make a passat corner like a mini. Force = mass x acceleration.

    Nonsense.
    Mini corners better because of better suspension, lower profile tyres, lower centre of gravity, etc...
    Nothing to do with mass.


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    #64
    SleeperService
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭SleeperService


    CiniO wrote: »
    Nonsense.
    Mini corners better because of better suspension, lower profile tyres, lower centre of gravity, etc...
    Nothing to do with mass.
    f=ma dude. Its at the heart of it all.


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    #65
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    SleeperService wrote: »
    f=ma dude. Its at the heart of it all.

    Show me any relevance...


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    #66
    dgt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭dgt


    CiniO wrote: »
    You think the higher the weight of the vehicle, the worse sh1tty tyre perform?
    Why would that be?

    I should have phrased it better....

    From what I've experienced the heavier the car, the more you notice the crap tyres. Especially in the 406, the chinese muck on it would slither and squeal terribly. Not so much the E39 but both shudder round corners with nexens/brand I've never heard of and can't remember the name of on the front. I had them on the back for a bit and became a pro drifter overnight :rolleyes:

    The Seicento arrived here with a full set of kingrats, a harsh bumpy noisy drive but nowhere near the level of squealing and sliding as the 406. All addressed to asap and problems went away

    Even the Daily van had Tigars and was noisy in the cabin. Changed for Michelin Agilis all round and no more harsh noise, much easier rolling tyre too so gain a bit of fuel economy too


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    #67
    bartbanis
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭bartbanis


    samih wrote: »
    So this makes them a budget brand of a budget brand? That sounds really promising.
    I hear ya brother, but three different guys have recommended federal to me. It's so hard to filter out the crap you are being fed by people because they just want to justify the crap they bought.
    I am around long enough to know what tyres are the best and I guess in some cases its best just to stick to what you know!


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    #68
    GTE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭GTE


    CiniO wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm actually pretty good at physics.
    And I can't see any reasons for crap tyres to grip worse on heavy car.

    I would have thought that given a the same sharp corner at the same speed the tyres on a heavier car would have more to do with respect to resisting "wish" of all that car weight to keep going forward.

    I'd have also thought it is a similar reason as to why a crap tyre would spin up before a very good one when accelerating hard.

    Just a thought.


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    #69
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,089 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    bbk wrote: »
    I would have thought that given a the same sharp corner at the same speed the tyres on a heavier car would have more to do with respect to resisting "wish" of all that car weight to keep going forward.
    Yes, the heavier the car, the greater centrifugal force on the corner.
    But also the heavier the car, the greater fraction between tyre and surface.
    This two effects should counterpoise.


    I'd have also thought it is a similar reason as to why a crap tyre would spin up before a very good one when accelerating hard.
    Crap tyre would have less fraction between tyre and surface, that's why it would spin before a good tyre.
    But it has nothing to do with vehicle weight.


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    #70
    Beadyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Beadyeye


    Fallen 452's are a great premium tyre and about a ton a corner. Great in wet and hard wearing. Have had 2 sets so far on a Fiat Coupe and can swear by them.


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    #71
    SleeperService
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭SleeperService


    CiniO wrote: »
    Yes, the heavier the car, the greater centrifugal force on the corner.
    But also the heavier the car, the greater fraction between tyre and surface.
    This two effects should counterpoise.




    Crap tyre would have less fraction between tyre and surface, that's why it would spin before a good tyre.
    But it has nothing to do with vehicle weight.
    In the physics lab where they do that block of wood / pulley / weights experiment, extra mass on top of the block gives extra traction. And there is cancellation as you say.

    But in the real world, the effective available traction due to increased mass does not cancel the extra momentum due to increased mass. You can mitigate by reducing weight sloshing around the place, better suspension, lower profile tyres.*caution - "IMHO" "not a doctor" ;-)

    So yeah, a heavier car with really good chassis/suspension and weight distribution could corner better than a lighter car with crap setup, but for average road car IMHO you can corner faster with less momentum fighting against you.


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    #72
    b318isp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭b318isp


    CiniO wrote: »
    Yes, the heavier the car, the greater centrifugal force on the corner.
    But also the heavier the car, the greater fraction between tyre and surface.
    This two effects should counterpoise.

    They do not balance out so neatly.

    There are many factors that effect friction (even with constant mass) including rubber characteristics, thread design, side wall resistance, temperature, road conditions, etc. At increasing (cornering) speeds the cornering force will start to dominate, especially as the tyre deforms. The deformation of the thread blocks and the side walls have a significant effect at high loads.

    Also remember that a large car will have a greater gyroscopic effect in the mass of the car and usually in rotating mass also, this fights the requirement to change direction.

    Think about F1 cars, they have low mass (and so inertia) and high downforce (so friction). This is the ideal.


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    #73
    b318isp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭b318isp


    CiniO wrote: »
    Crap tyre would have less fraction between tyre and surface, that's why it would spin before a good tyre.
    But it has nothing to do with vehicle weight.

    Increasing the weight on the wheel will increase the friction. This is one reason FWD cars are better in snow than RWD, due to the front end weight bias.

    Conversely, in dry conditions, weight transfer to the rear often gives better traction for RWD.

    [Also, all other things being equal, this is a reason why a stiff car in roll can actual reduce grip - the weight transfer will unload one wheel while overloading the other]


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    #74
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,851 ✭✭✭enricoh


    I' d recommend barum tyres- made by conti iirc . Very quiet, solid n long wearing. Can be got on openeo website at handy enough money or any crowd that does continentals


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    #75
    GTE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,909 ✭✭✭GTE


    CiniO wrote: »
    Yes, the heavier the car, the greater centrifugal force on the corner.
    But also the heavier the car, the greater fraction between tyre and surface.
    This two effects should counterpoise.

    That's very simplistic. You will have to do better then that, any references?


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    #76
    SleeperService
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭SleeperService


    bbk wrote: »
    That's very simplistic. You will have to do better then that, any references?

    Its the classic experiment / equations for static friction. As you increase the force (mass x gravity) forcing the object in question down, you have more friction and it can withstand a greater force trying to slide it.

    But a car is not a block of wood on a desk, and the forces don't cancel during cornering because of a whole load of dynamic things going on.


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