Trained Hunter Course???

luvhuntin

Ive read over a few old threads about the trained hunter course by the NARGC and can see its not very popular and although I have never sold a Deer to a Game Dealer in my life The Old man used to get rid of 1 or 2 a year but over the last 12 months we have been told that it will become necessary to do some sort of a course but he would be mad to spend 350+ on the NARGC one because a certain organisation:rolleyes: will be doing one for 100 Euros
Now I hear that two of the top men from this organisation have done the NARGC one in January????????
I really think that is taking the Piss:eek:
Has anyone any Idea what is happening in relation to this?

Cass

The trained huner course was brought in for anyone wishing to sell deer (game in general) to suppliers for public consumption. However it was introduced, as all things are, so fast and without any forethought that no central body was established to run the courses, which left the gates open for anyone and everyone that considered themselves an expert to run one.

Much like the competency courses for the firearms licensing. The courses go from €30 for a couple of hours to €100+ for a 2-3 day course. None of the courses are officially recognised by AGS, and so it voids them of any responsibility should a person deemed fit do any afterwards.

The trained hunters course is similar. Varying prices, varying degrees of training, and no regulation. IOW a joke.

hiddenmongoose

.
The Nargc course is the only recognised course by city and guilds and at the moment and is the only course available that will be recognised by the dealers.Iv done it and its a joke of a course.There was 2 dealers at my course and they also acknowledged it was the only recognised course,and only qualification they will accept .If you know of another trained hunter course that the game dealers will accept post a link as im sure lads will love to know

Cass

Is that at me?

I never said any of the trained hunter courses were not recognised. I said the competency ones were not. I also said that there is no regulation of trained hunter courses.

I've less than no interest in them as i've no interest in selling deer.

hiddenmongoose

No offence was ment cass but when you said


The trained hunters course is similar. Varying prices, varying degrees of training, and no regulation.

I took it that there was another trained hunter course been ran by someone and thats why I posted that if so it is currently not recognised.I sell a handfull of animals in a year and its barely worth doing due to the costs.Its a money racket through and through.

Cass

None taken lad.

I've multiple posts on different threads/fora running and am trying to post on all them so keeping my answer short & to the point. Apologies if i'm not explaining myself fully. I'll try to give more elaborate answers so there is no confusion. :cool:

Sparks

Cass wrote: »

I'll try to give more elaborate answers so there is no confusion. :cool:

Now you've done it

Cass

I can see some lads going "for feck's sake he already talks too much. Don't give a reason to go on longer".

luvhuntin

I have my own opinions on the Trained Hunter and HCAP-Laughable. It really gets on my goat though that all these various organisations that are supposed to be representing us are fighting and competeing against eachother and tell their members one thing while themselves going and doing the other. Is there anyone REALLY representing us Stalkers?? I Dont think so:mad:
Ive asked this question repeatedly including here on Boards and they just vanish:rolleyes:
I do believe there should be some sort of minimum standard set but from whats available it really is both laughable and embaressing.

tikkahunter

I have done the trained hunter and the Hcap and passed both,i didn't do them to shoot coillte land or sell to game dealers, i done them for myself and to try pick up some info and tips from both.
I found each course good and both had their own merits.With the Hcap i did pick up a few things that i wasnt aware of and i enjoyed the range day,i was never down to midlands before so it great to go down and see what the place was about ,everybody was made welcome by the range officers and they helped out lads that needed it and for 100 euro its not going to break the bank.
The trained hunter was more about disease recognition in wild fowl and game,it was delivered brilliantly by Jim Walsh and was very informitive ,it is worth doing so you can recognize these things in your kill before you go cook it for your family.
OK the price is high for it but most city and guilds courses are, i have done one day courses with work that have cost 1000 euro .
If anybody says they can deliver a city and guilds course for 100 euro they are living in fantasy land,as was mentioned earlier on the course i done 2 members from one of the deer associations were doing it. The reason i recognized them was they gave the work shop for the Hcap so il let you make your own mind up on that one.
Lads both courses are very straight forward and if you read the books and pay attention and have any bit of kop on you will fly through both.
If anybody is new to stalking or shooting i would advise them to do both but that is just my personal opinion, i know the price is high but so is everything to do with our sport:)

Sika98k

hiddenmongoose wrote: »

No offence was ment cass but when you said


The trained hunters course is similar. Varying prices, varying degrees of training, and no regulation.

I took it that there was another trained hunter course been ran by someone and thats why I posted that if so it is currently not recognised.I sell a handfull of animals in a year and its barely worth doing due to the costs.Its a money racket through and through.

There is a trained hunters course run in Gorey,Co.Wexford. This was the first course set up. Now the NARGC has their course. Both are,shall we say,run for profit.a friend of mine queried the breakdown of costs of running the NARGC course and as far as I am aware got no answer.
The WDAI course when it gets up and running will be cheaper as it is run by hunters for hunters. All the people running the Wild Deer Association of Ireland give their time for free.

tikkahunter

Sika98k wrote: »

There is a trained hunters course run in Gorey,Co.Wexford. This was the first course set up. Now the NARGC has their course. Both are,shall we say,run for profit.a friend of mine queried the breakdown of costs of running the NARGC course and as far as I am aware got no answer.
The WDAI course when it gets up and running will be cheaper as it is run by hunters for hunters. All the people running the Wild Deer Association of Ireland give their time for free.

Begs the question why were two of their main members doing this course then

Sparks

The obvious answer would seem fairly simple - to see what was on it so they wouldn't miss anything from their own or to see how they solved common problems.

That's not even that hard an answer for non-hunter to figure out, why would you have such trouble with it tikka?

tikkahunter

Sparks wrote: »

The obvious answer would seem fairly simple - to see what was on it so they wouldn't miss anything from their own or to see how they solved common problems.

That's not even that hard an answer for non-hunter to figure out, why would you have such trouble with it tikka?

You would think it would be that simple and open Sparks,Or maybe them members are selling vast sums of deer to dealers and know that there is not a hope in hell that anybody will be running that course for 100 euro, so if the 100 euro course wont be happening then they cant sell the deer,maybe i like other stalkers already know the answer and want these associations to be a bit more honest.

Sparks

tikkahunter wrote: »

maybe i like other stalkers already know the answer and want these associations to be a bit more honest.

Then wouldn't a good start be to come out and say what you mean instead of asking silly questions whose obvious answer doesn't even point in the direction you want people to look?

tikkahunter

Sparks wrote: »

Then wouldn't a good start be to come out and say what you mean instead of asking silly questions whose obvious answer doesn't even point in the direction you want people to look?

it wasn't a question Sparks it was more of a statement. i have stated in my first post i have done both courses and don't have a problem with either, i have recommended both, the nargc one might be 350 euro but at least they have done something to tackle the situation where the other associations have been going on about this 100 course for years now and nothing has happened ,then two of their well known members turn up and do he 350 course they have been bad mouthing ,bit of a joke really .

Sparks

tikkahunter wrote: »

it wasn't a question Sparks it was more of a statement.

I think when you say "Begs the question", you can't really say "Oh, it wasn't a question" afterwards...

i have stated in my first post i have done both courses and don't have a problem with either, i have recommended both, the nargc one might be 350 euro but at least they have done something to tackle the situation where the other associations have been going on about this 100 course for years now and nothing has happened ,then two of their well known members turn up and do he 350 course they have been bad mouthing ,bit of a joke really .

There are a lot of jokes in our little sport, as we keep finding out...

tikkahunter

Sparks wrote: »

I think when you say "Begs the question", you can't really say "Oh, it wasn't a question" afterwards...


There are a lot of jokes in our little sport, as we keep finding out...

****ing nit picker :D:D I know a lot of lads that done the course that day were shocked to see them lads there,these associations had been slagging the course off before and telling lads they would be mad to spend 350 on a course and that it was extortion then low and behold they turn up and do it because they know next season they wont make a penny off the dealers with out it

luvhuntin

Thats why I left them. Theres no doubt that they do some good work but Ive seen a lot of crap put out there by them last year in particular and this is one example. I reacon those two lads are only out for themselves anyway and couldnt care less about the WDAI:rolleyes: The oul lad was told directly to his face by one of them that hes ****ing mad doing the nargc course only a few months ago and now to hear hes gone and done it himsel:mad: Theyve just stuck the two fingers up at all their members yet again.

wirehairmax

Sika98k wrote: »

There is a trained hunters course run in Gorey,Co.Wexford. This was the first course set up. Now the NARGC has their course. Both are,shall we say,run for profit.a friend of mine queried the breakdown of costs of running the NARGC course and as far as I am aware got no answer.
The WDAI course when it gets up and running will be cheaper as it is run by hunters for hunters. All the people running the Wild Deer Association of Ireland give their time for free.

I think you're a little bit confused, the "two" courses you are talking about are in fact one. The NARGC course has always been based from Gorey .

Sika98k

wirehairmax wrote: »

I think you're a little bit confused, the "two" courses you are talking about are in fact one. The NARGC course has always been based from Gorey .

Thanks.

PL05

tikkahunter wrote: »

Begs the question why were two of their main members doing this course then

In a group of stalkers, say on a lease, only one needs the trained hunter cert for deer to be signed off and sold regardless of who shoots them. So IMO, while the other course is in the pipeline? deer can still be sold in the quantity that are been sold at the moment. Just a thought; So really, unless you are interested in selling large amounts of carcasses [which by the way, im not] then whats the panic or point for that matter. There will be lads signing off deer as disease free for their cronies. For this course to be fair it should be for all stalkers that intend selling and the one person in a group rule should be scraped.

tikkahunter

PL05 wrote: »

In a group of stalkers, say on a lease, only one needs the trained hunter cert for deer to be signed off and sold regardless of who shoots them. So IMO, while the other course is in the pipeline? deer can still be sold in the quantity that are been sold at the moment. Just a thought; So really, unless you are interested in selling large amounts of carcasses [which by the way, im not] then whats the panic or point for that matter. There will be lads signing off deer as disease free for their cronies. For this course to be fair it should be for all stalkers that intend selling and the one person in a group rule should be scraped.

Agree if you shoot it you should be the only one who sells it.The only thing is with the tags being handed in on the carcase clowns selling vast amounts of deer and ruining it for everybody else can be shown for what they are if anybody wanted to check , i also think the amount of deer that can be handed by any one person in a season should be capped.

PL05

tikkahunter wrote: »

Agree if you shoot it you should be the only one who sells it.The only thing is with the tags being handed in on the carcase clowns selling vast amounts of deer and ruining it for everybody else can be shown for what they are if anybody wanted to check , i also think the amount of deer that can be handed by any one person in a season should be capped.

It should be capped alright. This trained hunter course was brought in because, in Britain they wont accept venison from Ireland unless its been checked for disease and signed of as disease free. So that begs the questions, how many deer are being exported to Britain and why is the onus on the stalker and not the game dealer. Surely any carcass presented to a dealer gets a veternary inspection before it go on the market for human consumption. And then theres the question, have certain groups seen an oportunity to make a few quid. If this is a food quality issue then why are,nt the food safety autority running these courses themselves. Lets face it nobody is going to gain the skills needed to say a deer is 100% disease free from doing a short course. IMO this whole thing is a bit fishy.

tikkahunter

PL05 wrote: »

It should be capped alright. This trained hunter course was brought in because, in Britain they wont accept venison from Ireland unless its been checked for disease and signed of as disease free. So that begs the questions, how many deer are being exported to Britain and why is the onus on the stalker and not the game dealer. Surely any carcass presented to a dealer gets a veternary inspection before it go on the market for human consumption. And then theres the question, have certain groups seen an oportunity to make a few quid. If this is a food quality issue then why are,nt the food safety autority running these courses themselves. Lets face it nobody is going to gain the skills needed to say a deer is 100% disease free from doing a short course. IMO this whole thing is a bit fishy.

The main reason i done this and the Hcap was to ensure i had them if it becomes an issue when applying for my deer hunting license in the next few years,who knows what stipulations they might introduce so i am making sure i have everything under my belt incase anything like that happens,in fairness i did pick up bits from both and i did enjoy the range day , but my jesus some of them lads should not be allowed firearms.
I have seen all of the spec from the courses from the uk and they would be far better to do in my opinion.

PL05

tikkahunter wrote: »

The main reason i done this and the Hcap was to ensure i had them if it becomes an issue when applying for my deer hunting license in the next few years,who knows what stipulations they might introduce so i am making sure i have everything under my belt incase anything like that happens,in fairness i did pick up bits from both and i did enjoy the range day , but my jesus some of them lads should not be allowed firearms.
I have seen all of the spec from the courses from the uk and they would be far better to do in my opinion.

I done the HCAP myself and if im honest i needed it for a lease and probably for the same reason as yourself and i,ll probably do this course also, as i agree with you that in the future it probably will be a condition. But it annoys the crap out of me the whenever these ideas come about the same shower jump in there and try to get the monopoly on it. You can see where im going with re to spotting disease, it should,nt be up to a stalker. Apparently the pluck or head does,nt have to be presented either if your a trained hunter, [correct me if im wrong] so how is an animal going to be properly checked at dealers. Does,nt make sense.

tikkahunter

PL05 wrote: »

I done the HCAP myself and if im honest i needed it for a lease and probably for the same reason as yourself and i,ll probably do this course also, as i agree with you that in the future it probably will be a condition. But it annoys the crap out of me the whenever these ideas come about the same shower jump in there and try to get the monopoly on it. You can see where im going with re to spotting disease, it should,nt be up to a stalker. Apparently the pluck or head does,nt have to be presented either if your a trained hunter, [correct me if im wrong] so how is an animal going to be properly checked at dealers. Does,nt make sense.

You just have to hand the animal in clean with the skin still on and a tag with all the details through the leg and thats it ,they may or may not see abscesses on the animal when the skin is removed if it had tb or a disease ,it just saves the dealers abit of time in my opinion and most lads who shoot a deer out of a window will have no morels anyway so it could be riddled and they would sign it off as perfect,the only thing i would say is it does help you identify a lot of diseases in all game and wild fowl that you would be bringing home for the pot so in that way its useful.

PL05

tikkahunter wrote: »

You just have to hand the animal in clean with the skin still on and a tag with all the details through the leg and thats it ,they may or may not see abscesses on the animal when the skin is removed if it had tb or a disease ,it just saves the dealers abit of time in my opinion and most lads who shoot a deer out of a window will have no morels anyway so it could be riddled and they would sign it off as perfect,the only thing i would say is it does help you identify a lot of diseases in all game and wild fowl that you would be bringing home for the pot so in that way its useful.

Its a sham. The main area to check for TB is the lungs after that glands in the intestines, so an animal could show strong signs of TB in the lungs and because the pluck does,nt have to be presented the dealer basically accepts the word of the stalker that this animal is clean, So who,s liable if there is any comeback on it. Get what your saying about learning to spot disease yourself for your own use. Tell you something its getting worse, i cant get my head around this, all this fuss about having to be a trained hunter when in actual fact if you do this course and pass it would make it easier to sell a carcass, sh*t you could sell any old diseased animal. What a fuc*ing sham. Anyway thanks for the info lad, im off to bed and i probably wont sleep thinking about this carry on.

luvhuntin

Basically theres a whole load of guys going around calling themselves "Trained Hunters" when the reality is a lot of them shouldnt be allowed a Hunting licence in the first place.:rolleyes: The whole thing is Deeply flawed and is only masking a problem instead of actually addressing it properly. Where is the representative from the WDAI who has been on boards telling everyone how good they were???? If your going to tell us how great yous are why not address some of the questions?

wirehairmax

luvhuntin wrote: »

Basically theres a whole load of guys going around calling themselves "Trained Hunters" when the reality is a lot of them shouldnt be allowed a Hunting licence in the first place.:rolleyes: The whole thing is Deeply flawed and is only masking a problem instead of actually addressing it properly. Where is the representative from the WDAI who has been on boards telling everyone how good they were???? If your going to tell us how great yous are why not address some of the questions?

You've some hard-on for the WDAI. I'd love to know what they did to you? Obviously some history there? You might be better off picking up the phone and ringing them directly. They don't seem to be responding to your friendly invitation here. Who are the reps from the WDAI on boards btw?

Cass

wirehairmax wrote: »

Who are the reps from the WDAI on boards btw?

There are no reps for the WDAI on Boards. Not in an official capacity. So anyone responding on behalf of the WDAI is not representing them, officially, as far as Boards.ie is concerned.

To do so they need to contact the Mods, ask for a Representative account, have such an account verified by the admins, and if successful an account will be set up for them and their title will be changed to highlight they are official reps. Then anything posted under that account is official WDAI correspondence/information/statements.

wirehairmax

Cass wrote: »

There are no reps for the WDAI on Boards. Not in an official capacity. So anyone responding on behalf of the WDAI is not representing them, officially, as far as Boards.ie is concerned.

To do so they need to contact the Mods, ask for a Representative account, have such an account verified by the admins, and if successful an account will be set up for them and their title will be changed to highlight they are official reps. Then anything posted under that account is official WDAI correspondence/information/statements.

I don't think they will look for an official account. I don't know anyone in the WDAI personally but if I were them I wouldn't come on here to have muck thrown at them. Same for the NARGC. They both do good work in their own ways although lately the lines have been blurred on all sides. The NARGC should have stayed a million miles away from the game meat handling course. It's in their constitution to preserve and conserve wild game and no member should profit from membership of the association. The way I interpret this is that the minute a NARGC member enters lands with the intention of shooting game to sell on, they are in breach of the constitution and should be subject to appropriate disciplinary measures.
By facilitating game dealers with this course I would question the ethos and objectives of the NARGC.
I'm all for education and good courses but the learning outcome must suit the needs of the participant.
The objective of the game handling course is not about the hunter. It is about ensuring the game dealers are kept well stocked and the supply of venison for export is maintained.
In saying all that, I have bought the book and it is very well produced and well worth €25. But there is no way in hell I ever want to do that course for €300. The book is a good read and well illustrated and presented and according to the NARGC is worth 22 hours credits for just reading it. My one gripe about the book is that it's littered with references to a particular game dealer and they are acknowledged and thanked in the book also. There is an emphasis on how to produce a carcass to a dealer which is what the whole course was designed for and not for the hunter only shooting for himself which is what the NARGC should have prioritised and not the needs of game dealers.
The WDAI should never have become involved in the gun licensing debate last week. Des crofton has shown his teeth in the past in the various courts and media and the WDAI would probably be well advised to give him his rope as des sails fairly close to the wind when he's on his soapbox in the Irish shooters digest and is quick to attack when his opinion is challenged. The Gardai have been hesitant so far in getting into a war of words but I do wonder what's coming down the line?
The NARGC deserve great praise for the orginization they have become and have many positive elements however the "trained hunter" is in direct conflict with the constitution and ethos of conservation.
Shoot for sport and food and not for profit. That is what we should all remember as that's what our main hunting body should be in mind of also and not the needs of a cartel of game dealers.

Cass

As a non member of the WDAI let me ask you this.

• Do the WDAI not do a course too?
• As a Deer specific organisation would they not hold such values even more closely?
• I'm sure members of the WDAI sell deer as some of the member(s) make either a living or extra income from the shooting of them do they not?

My point(s) being the same values should apply across the board or not at all to all groups. So saying the NARGC are breaking their own constitution by allowing the selling of deer, when the WDAI members may do the same thing is not really a comparison.

I agree both groups have their merits, but they seem to have the same faults too. It's most likely not just applicable to these two either, but as i won't be dragged into a conversation on the practices of groups that i don't know about i'm going to limit my discussion to the two groups mentioned here.

wirehairmax

Cass wrote: »

As a non member of the WDAI let me ask you this.

• Do the WDAI not do a course too?
• As a Deer specific organisation would they not hold such values even more closely?
• I'm sure members of the WDAI sell deer as some of the member(s) make either a living or extra income from the shooting of them do they not?

My point(s) being the same values should apply across the board or not at all to all groups. So saying the NARGC are breaking their own constitution by allowing the selling of deer, when the WDAI members may do the same thing is not really a comparison.

I agree both groups have their merits, but they seem to have the same faults too. It's most likely not just applicable to these two either, but as i won't be dragged into a conversation on the practices of groups that i don't know about i'm going to limit my discussion to the two groups mentioned here.

As far as I know the WDAI do not have a similar or equivalent course although there was talk of a course to rival the NARGC one for €100 but I don't know where it stands now.
http://www.wilddeerireland.com/membership.html The aims and objectives are outlined here. Similar to the aims and objectives of the NARGC. Conservation, preservation etc etc. not as formal though and all it takes to join them is your membership form and the fee. It's very informal membership unlike the NARGC which has a clearly defined structure and rules and constitution. I suppose unlike the NARGC the WDAI cannot discipline or be held accountable for its members actions. My point on the constitution of the NARGC is that the rule about profiting from membership and shooting game is there in black and white and by facilitating this "trained hunter" course, they are contradicting their own constitution and rule. If you read the NARGC constitution it was amended in July 2012 to specifically exclude the sale of deer carcasses from the rule 11 concerning "commercial exploitation". Id imagine this was changed in preparation for the "trained hunter" course which began in 2013. Although when I read the constitution a few months ago this amendment hadn't been updated on the website. I actually hadn't spotted this amendment in the meantime so my comment above regarding the breach of constitution and the sale of deer is incorrect at this present time although the timing of the amendment and the fact that it was changed to specifically exclude deer should certainly raise questions as well as eyebrows. It all points back to making sure the game dealers are supplied with their most valuable raw materials and our main body for game shooting and conservation are facilitating them.
Yes I'd imagine there are WDAI members selling deer and up to other things also as human nature but the links are not as obvious or blatant. In a national orginization, human nature is going to vary significantly and not everyone is who they proclaim to be. Just take the posters here who hide behind their usernames and paint themselves whiter than white but I know one or two who post here as if they are angels but I wouldn't trust them with my dead dog. That's just human nature and I believe every person is accountable for their own actions even if you are part of a group or body.
The NARGC cannot be responsible for their members actions and neither can the WDAI and the NARGC states this on their website that stupidity and bad behaviour will not be tolerated.
Anyone who has been shooting deer for a few years know that numbers are way down except in isolated pocket in certain areas. Surely now is not the time to be encouraging the sale of deer by introducing courses by our main game conservation body to satisfy export demands by dealers.
The WDAI have lobbied for a change to the seasons to allow pregnant hinds a chance in February and also lobbied game dealers not to take section 42 animals out of season.
As I said at the outset I don't know anybody personally in the WDAI nor do I have any allegiance to them except for the €20 I gave them so I could attend their free seminars on butchering and tracking dogs.
I am a member of my local GPA and am actively involved in many of the activities within the club. I have benefitted greatly from being a member of the association over the past number of years. Other than this "trained hunter" issue I have nothing only praise for the NARGC although I do feel their director could be a little less litigious and confrontational although I suppose that's what he's there for. I've never met the man although he did phone me one day after I voiced my opinion about the course on the NARGC Facebook page. I was left in no doubt that I was to mind my manners and tow the party line or I would get myself in trouble? Take what you want out of that?

Cass

wirehairmax wrote: »

It's very informal membership unlike the NARGC which has a clearly defined structure and rules and constitution.

Not being argumentative, but it's membership or not. How well it's structured/managed is an academic discussion. Fact is people pay membership fees to be included in that association.

I suppose unlike the NARGC the WDAI cannot discipline or be held accountable for its members actions.

The NARGC cannot impose any legal sanctions on theri members, no more than the WDAI can, but both group, WDAI included, can cancel membership, and disassociate themselves from such people. You even so say yourself further down in the same post:

wirehairmax wrote:

The NARGC cannot be responsible for their members actions and neither can the WDAI and the NARGC states this on their website that stupidity and bad behaviour will not be tolerated.

Yes I'd imagine there are WDAI members selling deer and up to other things also as human nature but the links are not as obvious or blatant.

AS what? How would the NARGC control such selling anymore than the WDAI? People are already selling without the traineed hunter course on both sdies so how would one group running such a course make them more responsible for their members actions? As you said yourself:

That's just human nature and I believe every person is accountable for their own actions even if you are part of a group or body.

Anyone who has been shooting deer for a few years know that numbers are way down except in isolated pocket in certain areas. Surely now is not the time to be encouraging the sale of deer by introducing courses by our main game conservation body to satisfy export demands by dealers.

Excuse me on this point. not really following you. If numbers down surely encouraging the sale of deer by any group is not the way to solve it? Or have i misread the post?

The WDAI have lobbied for a change to the seasons to allow pregnant hinds a chance in February and also lobbied game dealers not to take section 42 animals out of season.

To whom? On behalf of their members? Again much like the other thread on the main forum did they consult with the other groups, and get their members opinions before acting on their own?

As I said at the outset I don't know anybody personally in the WDAI nor do I have any allegiance to them except for the €20 I gave them so I could attend their free seminars on butchering and tracking dogs.

Does the fee not count as membership? I'm sure it is and not just a donation. As such you are a member and entitled to ask questions of the committee, their actions, any proposals by them to any Dept, etc, etc. IOW you have rights much like anyone else does in the NARGC.



I just want to say that i'm not trying to nit pick or be argumentative. I have my own opinions on these courses, as i touched on at the start of this thread. I'm trying to get to the core of both groups beliefs, their intentions, the differences and similarities of their members (which i don't hesitate to guess would share a large crossover, IOW members of one are members of the other).


Without going off topic, in relation to the trained hunter courses, i've seen people that rely on Deer shooting/selling, yet call for proper management, an end to certain practices, etc. The very things they do. Much like what was said at the start about some people making disparaging remarks about the courses then actually taking them (not saying this happened, only quoting a reference to it above). IOW lead by example.

luvhuntin

wirehairmax wrote: »

You've some hard-on for the WDAI. I'd love to know what they did to you? Obviously some history there? You might be better off picking up the phone and ringing them directly. They don't seem to be responding to your friendly invitation here. Who are the reps from the WDAI on boards btw?

Your quite right Wirehairmax I have some hard-on for the WDAI and others aswell though but not because they done anything personally on me(Which is always their reply aswell:rolleyes:) If you look back on my few posts let me know if there are any questions I asked that you dont think are important for them to answer. I have also stated that all the organisations do some very good work but that doesnt mean we turn a blind eye to some serious issues.