When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

Nonoperational

Vodafone anyway have it set so the downstream SNR target is 10db. It's unnecessary. Before the latest updates I was connected for weeks with not one disconnect at a downstream SNR of 6db. I asked them to change my SNR target to 6db but they didn't understand what I was talking about.

OcocO

Nonoperational wrote: »

Vodafone anyway have it set so the downstream SNR target is 10db. It's unnecessary. Before the latest updates I was connected for weeks with not one disconnect at a downstream SNR of 6db. I asked them to change my SNR target to 6db but they didn't understand what I was talking about.

Exactly the same experience here - right down to the phone call and the feeling that the person I was speaking to couldn't appreciate why I was asking for a change in target SNR. For me too the connection was always stable at 6 (even when it went a little less than that) and I'm fairly certain that it would make the difference between the highest available profile to me being the 25Mb one I'm on now and the 30Mb one I've always been just short of.

EDIT:
Also I used to have 5Mb upstream when the SNR was targeted at 6 - now that it's targeted at 9 I only get 2.5Mb.

ED E

Its CPE defined isnt it? Probably hardcoded into the firmware.

OcocO

ED E wrote: »

Its CPE defined isnt it? Probably hardcoded into the firmware.

Hi Ed. I don't what CPE is but it seems that not all providers are targeting SNR to a minimum of 9. I'd be interested to see SNR stats from people 1.5km+ from the cab who are with the different providers.

ED E

Modem/Router. I think the SNR target is built into them. Arctan might know.

It'd be interesting if any boardsies had a Draytek they might be able to play with it. They'd also have to be set to a high rate adaptive profile for it to go that low.

OcocO

ED E wrote: »

Modem/Router. I think the SNR target is built into them. Arctan might know.

It'd be interesting if any boardsies had a Draytek they might be able to play with it. They'd also have to be set to a high rate adaptive profile for it to go that low.

I'd formed the impression (partly from info in this thread and partly from speaking to TS at Vodafone) that the SNR is set as part of the rate adaptive profiling of my line. I don't know what system does this or who is responsible for it but I had pretty much ruled out my router as being responsible: Its firmware updated more than two weeks before the target SNR changed (which I'm tentatively thinking resulted as part of the implementation of G.INP) and I've already changed the firmware to older versions and back again to see if it makes a difference: it doesn't. (The experiment did have a few curious side effects though - btw: if anyone wants one of the 12 most recent versions of the HG658c firmware they're available from Vodafone here: http://publicacs.vodafone.co.uk/firmware/IE/Huawei/HG658c/)

MBSnr

OcocO wrote: »

Yes, those are remarkably high net attainables for the distance! Have you tried Eircom to see if they'll put you on a slightly higher profile?

I did... was on 25/7 now on

======================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     10.239 Mbps       40.959 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     10.240 Mbps       40.960 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       10.7 dB           15.8 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        8.9 dBm          14.0 dBm
           Receive Power:       -7.1 dBm         -10.7 dBm
              Actual INP:       29.0 symbols      29.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       16.0 dB           24.8 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     12.230 Mbps       53.640 Mbps
============================================================================
      VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  7.3    38.9    57.2     N/A    18.6    48.6    73.0   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  7.3    38.3    56.8     N/A    23.8    48.3     N/A   
        SNR Margin(dB): 10.2    11.0    10.2     N/A    15.1    15.1     N/A   
   Transmit Power(dBm):  0.1     6.1     4.2     N/A    13.0     7.6     N/A   
============================================================================

Previous for info. My SNR margin has dropped a good bit with the higher speeds.

============================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   1 day: 21 hours: 28 minutes
============================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:      7.167 Mbps       25.598 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:      7.168 Mbps       25.599 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       15.6 dB           25.4 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        8.4 dBm          14.4 dBm
           Receive Power:       -6.8 dBm         -10.0 dBm
              Actual INP:       30.0 symbols      30.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       15.3 dB           24.5 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     12.165 Mbps       53.084 Mbps
============================================================================
      VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  7.3    38.8    57.0     N/A    18.6    48.5    72.8   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  7.3    37.9    66.0     N/A    23.8    48.2     N/A   
        SNR Margin(dB): 15.9    15.6    16.8     N/A    25.4    25.5     N/A   
   Transmit Power(dBm):  0.4     6.1     2.6     N/A    13.7     6.2     N/A   
============================================================================

Nonoperational

ED E wrote: »

Modem/Router. I think the SNR target is built into them. Arctan might know.

It'd be interesting if any boardsies had a Draytek they might be able to play with it. They'd also have to be set to a high rate adaptive profile for it to go that low.

Well I was a month on a SNR of 6db before the G.INP update and my modem hasn't changed.

GIMickey

Digiweb, Fritzbox users

I just recieve an email from digiweb tech support this morning

"Thanks very much for the details you sent. I was very helpful and accurate
information. The modem guys were able to use these details to create a new
firmware file for the fritz box to improve the issue. We are currently loading
this firmware onto a modem and would like to send this modem to you. Once
received please run some speed tests on speedtest.digiweb.ie and see if speed
issue is resolved."

I will any new information as i recieve it.

murphaph

GIMickey wrote: »

Digiweb, Fritzbox users

I just recieve an email from digiweb tech support this morning

"Thanks very much for the details you sent. I was very helpful and accurate
information. The modem guys were able to use these details to create a new
firmware file for the fritz box to improve the issue. We are currently loading
this firmware onto a modem and would like to send this modem to you. Once
received please run some speed tests on speedtest.digiweb.ie and see if speed
issue is resolved."

I will any new information as i recieve it.

I did say that AVM would do everything they can to fix this problem. A decent company really.

GIMickey

murphaph wrote: »

I did say that AVM would do everything they can to fix this problem. A decent company really.

Yeah i was talking with both Digiweb and AVM, both companies got back to me with the same questions

Surprised really.

Just hope it works now.

OcocO

MBSnr wrote: »

I did... was on 25/7 now on

======================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     10.239 Mbps       40.959 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     10.240 Mbps       40.960 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       10.7 dB           15.8 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        8.9 dBm          14.0 dBm
           Receive Power:       -7.1 dBm         -10.7 dBm
              Actual INP:       29.0 symbols      29.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       16.0 dB           24.8 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     12.230 Mbps       53.640 Mbps
============================================================================
      VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  7.3    38.9    57.2     N/A    18.6    48.6    73.0   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  7.3    38.3    56.8     N/A    23.8    48.3     N/A   
        SNR Margin(dB): 10.2    11.0    10.2     N/A    15.1    15.1     N/A   
   Transmit Power(dBm):  0.1     6.1     4.2     N/A    13.0     7.6     N/A   
============================================================================

Excellent!
And thanks for the before and after for the purposes of comparative analysis.

jimmad

GIMickey wrote: »

Yeah i was talking with both Digiweb and AVM, both companies got back to me with the same questions

Surprised really.

Just hope it works now.

Great news, the routers really are excellent bar not picking up the vectoring changes.

MBSnr

OcocO wrote: »

Excellent!
And thanks for the before and after for the purposes of comparative analysis.

NP ;-)

I asked the Eircom rep I have been in contact with to tell me the line distance but I didn't get any feedback - perhaps he can't actually say and only an engineer can. My attenuation, by the online checkers, puts me further than I actually think the line is. My latest best guess is the line length is 1.25Km (as I was told it actually runs to one cabinet, but since that was full it then runs back on itself to another and Google maps gives that as the distance). I think the joints and the internal cable run of 40m results in the higher attenuation of 25dB for the distance. This still ties in with Eircom initially saying I could not get fibre as I was over 1Km distance from the cabinet.

OcocO

MBSnr wrote: »

I asked the Eircom rep I have been in contact with to tell me the line distance but I didn't get any feedback - perhaps he can't actually say and only an engineer can. My attenuation, by the online checkers, puts me further than I actually think the line is. My latest best guess is the line length is 1.25Km (as I was told it actually runs to one cabinet, but since that was full it then runs back on itself to another and Google maps gives that as the distance). I think the joints and the internal cable run of 40m results in the higher attenuation of 25dB for the distance. This still ties in with Eircom initially saying I could not get fibre as I was over 1Km distance from the cabinet.

Thanks for trying to get a reading on your distance - I'd still be most interested to know if you find out. In my case it was only the visiting engineers who could tell me alright. Your explanation would go a long way to accounting for your attainable speeds though (at least, based on my patchy knowledge of all this, I imagine it does). I did a very careful check of my own (seeming) physical distance from the cab using Google Maps as well some time back - literally plotting telegraph pole to telegraph pole and, coincidentally enough, I also got just over 1.2km. The line disappears under the ground some 100 meters from the cab so I have to assume that the remaining 700m odd is the result of the very circuitous route it must take to travel those last 100m as the crow flies.

sparky63

bloodyhawk wrote: »

Here is mine.




Is it bad?

At times with vectoring enabled, FEC and CRC errors will be in the thousands. As the line is sampled for interrupting signals and an antiphase of that signal is introduced to counteract the interrupter, in essence this registers as errors. Taking into account that vectoring has significantly increased the frequency at which transmission occurs and recurs there should be no adverse affects on your line.

Deagol

GIMickey wrote: »

Digiweb, Fritzbox users

I just recieve an email from digiweb tech support this morning

"Thanks very much for the details you sent. I was very helpful and accurate
information. The modem guys were able to use these details to create a new
firmware file for the fritz box to improve the issue. We are currently loading
this firmware onto a modem and would like to send this modem to you. Once
received please run some speed tests on speedtest.digiweb.ie and see if speed
issue is resolved."

I will any new information as i recieve it.

Any news on this? If you are 'talking' to AVM, can you ask if the 7390 will be included in any software update for this problem?

GIMickey

Deagol wrote: »

Any news on this? If you are 'talking' to AVM, can you ask if the 7390 will be included in any software update for this problem?

Got the UK edition on the 7360 on Monday with a beta firmware.
No improvements anywhere. But I'm giving line diagnostics back. I'm working with Digiweb, I think they are working directly with the firmware team in AVM.

I'm guessing if the issue is resolved they shud release firmware for ur model also.

Bog Standard User

MBSnr wrote: »

NP ;-)

I asked the Eircom rep I have been in contact with to tell me the line distance but I didn't get any feedback - perhaps he can't actually say and only an engineer can. My attenuation, by the online checkers, puts me further than I actually think the line is. My latest best guess is the line length is 1.25Km (as I was told it actually runs to one cabinet, but since that was full it then runs back on itself to another and Google maps gives that as the distance). I think the joints and the internal cable run of 40m results in the higher attenuation of 25dB for the distance. This still ties in with Eircom initially saying I could not get fibre as I was over 1Km distance from the cabinet.

use this guide to work out your line length

http://www.speedguide.net/dsl_speed_calc.php

MBSnr

Bog Standard User wrote: »

use this guide to work out your line length

http://www.speedguide.net/dsl_speed_calc.php

Thanks, but as I posted, I already have and it gives a result of 1.8Km, which I am sceptical of as I am running on the 40/10 profile.....

Deagol

MBSnr wrote: »

Thanks, but as I posted, I already have and it gives a result of 1.8Km, which I am sceptical of as I am running on the 40/10 profile.....

As far as I can tell, Eircom / Telecom Eireann / P&T, don't use the 26AWG cable that that site presumes. Therefore the attenuation / Km is probably quite a bit out.

I'd stand to be corrected on that if we have anyone knowledgable on the type of TP cable Eircom use(d)?

Deagol

GIMickey wrote: »

Got the UK edition on the 7360 on Monday with a beta firmware.
No improvements anywhere. But I'm giving line diagnostics back. I'm working with Digiweb, I think they are working directly with the firmware team in AVM.

I'm guessing if the issue is resolved they shud release firmware for ur model also.

Ok, thanks for the update :cool:

wheresmybeaver

Visited my parents this weekend, they're pretty far from their cabinet and before vectoring was enabled they were getting 12 down and 1 up (a vast improvement over their old DSL).

This weekend though their speedtests are 20 down and 3 up, very nice! Vectoring is effective even on very long lines it would appear.

MBSnr

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

Visited my parents this weekend, they're pretty far from their cabinet and before vectoring was enabled they were getting 12 down and 1 up (a vast improvement over their old DSL).

This weekend though their speedtests are 20 down and 3 up, very nice! Vectoring is effective even on very long lines it would appear.

Would you be able to hazard a guess as to the distance from the cab they are? You can get down to street level on the fibre map here http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Our_Network/. Tick the Live box on the right.

SpaceTime

My line got reprofiled last night.
Suddenly went from 10 / 40 to the maximum the line will take which is 20/70 roughly.

Not bad at 650m from the cabinet!

bk

SpaceTime wrote: »

Not bad at 650m from the cabinet!

Not bad! That is super.

This VDSL and vectoring really is fantastic news. It looks like superfast broadband should be a reality for the majority of people in urban and semi-urban areas.

That is fantastic news, we finally have the urban broadband problem fixed.

Now we just need rural Ireland sorted.

MBSnr

^^^
Yeap have to say I'm more than impressed with the Eircom VDSL connection I have at work! A guy in Eircom told me that anyone within 300m of a cab should expect the 100Mbps profile with vectoring (obv. if their line is suitable).

We just need more reports of lines on longer runs (which unfortunately is a bit lacking but should increase in time...). As I mentioned before, I'm hopeful that vectoring has provided a chance of the reach being extended out beyond 2Km for suitable lines (esp. those directly connected lines to exchanges). It seems (based on the limited reports/versus longer known distance) that the speed profile used has been a pleasant surprise - in that it's more than was expected.

I've seen the stats for a connection with Vodafone (easily within 300m) still on the 70Mbps profile - but didn't get to see the net attainables - so perhaps vectoring is not enabled there. I don't like the way the HG658 doesn't show them on the main status screen unlike the F1000....

SpaceTime

The small distributed cabinets make a lot of sense with population distributions like we have here in Ireland.

Even our urban areas are fairly low density.

I'm within 2km of Patrick's St in Cork but it's an old mostly Victorian (some Georgian) area with lots of space between houses. UPC coverage is patchy. They've done a terrace here and there and some individual houses that paid for ducts in the 80s.

So VDSL has been a massive improvement. Entire area is adequately covered with about 5 cabinets.

bk

Yes vectorised VDSL2 is proving to be quiet a good solution for Irelands unique challenges.

I'm also looking forward to the rollout of VDSL to exchange only lines and to see how VDSL handles longer lines in rural Ireland.

In the longterm, I'm hoping they will introduce smaller, pole mounted VDSL cabs, that might help serve rural Ireland even better.

ED E

bk wrote: »

I'm also looking forward to the rollout of VDSL to exchange only lines and to see how VDSL handles longer lines in rural Ireland.

From another thread eircom wholesale have started the trials for direct fed. Wont be too long now.