Commencement Notice

RossyR · 28-02-2014 12:30am

We sent in our commencement notice 2 weeks ago today (Thur).
We are at the moment trying to sort out price with builder... which will prob take another couple of weeks.
In the mean time i was planning on making road into site (it is about 100m thru a field off a side road) to indicate the start of the build

My qusestion is when do i have to start this?
Does it have to be tomo (Fri) or what is my time limit to ensure i am within the old guidelines..
Tks

DOCARCH · 28-02-2014 7:21am

RossyR wrote: »

We sent in our commencement notice 2 weeks ago today (Thur).
We are at the moment trying to sort out price with builder... which will prob take another couple of weeks.
In the mean time i was planning on making road into site (it is about 100m thru a field off a side road) to indicate the start of the build

My qusestion is when do i have to start this?
Does it have to be tomo (Fri) or what is my time limit to ensure i am within the old guidelines..
Tks

After the you submit your commencement notice you should be starting work between day 14 and 28 (after submitting the notice), so you still have another 2 weeks to get started.

RossyR · 28-02-2014 11:45am

DOCARCH wrote: »

After the you submit your commencement notice you should be starting work between day 14 and 28 (after submitting the notice), so you still have another 2 weeks to get started.

Tks for that DOCARCH
No need to panic so for another couple of weeks...

Gumbo · 28-02-2014 11:59am

RossyR wrote: »

We sent in our commencement notice 2 weeks ago today (Thur).
We are at the moment trying to sort out price with builder... which will prob take another couple of weeks.
In the mean time i was planning on making road into site (it is about 100m thru a field off a side road) to indicate the start of the build

My qusestion is when do i have to start this?
Does it have to be tomo (Fri) or what is my time limit to ensure i am within the old guidelines..
Tks

Legally speaking, 14 days from the date that YOU stated on your CN.

Selfbuilder14 · 16-03-2014 5:30pm

Hi all looking for advice. We are building an extension and have planning permission. Not to have to under the new building regulations although we are not sure if we are going direct labour or not we submitted our commencement notice and have to commence by 24th march. We have now closed off our second entrance as per planning and are going to pay the fee next week. We are not in a position to start pouring the foundations next week. We have planning permission to open up a new entrance if we did this would that be considered commencing? Will building control know if we don't start? We intended to start but other factors have come into play and we are waiting for the foundation design from the structural engineer and architect. Will we have to resubmit our commencement notice or will anybody even check.?

4Sticks · 16-03-2014 8:38pm

Selfbuilder14 wrote: »

We intended to start but ....Will we have to resubmit our commencement notice...... or will anybody even check.?

You are about to break the law ..... you should submit a new CN ..... the level of LA enforcement is so low probably not.

Selfbuilder14 · 16-03-2014 9:51pm

4Sticks wrote: »

You are about to break the law ..... you should submit a new CN ..... the level of LA enforcement is so low probably not.

Thanks not that we will break the law. What constitutes starting? Can we start with our new entrance as per planning? Or do we have to start pouring the foundations? I believe they will just return the commencement notice and we will have to resubmit if the worst comes to the worst

HoofRocks · 27-03-2014 11:34am

If you commencement notice is granted. how long do you have afterwards to complete the build. Is there anywhere in the regs that states you must have X amount of work done after the notice is given?

sydthebeat · 27-03-2014 11:50am

HoofRocks wrote: »

If you commencement notice is granted. how long do you have afterwards to complete the build. Is there anywhere in the regs that states you must have X amount of work done after the notice is given?

its a commencement notice... so you are giving the local authority notice that you are going to commence in no less than 14 days and no more than 28 days.

the works you have to carry out must constitute "development"
so most councils accept the opening of an entrance, others the stripping of the site etc.

4Sticks · 27-03-2014 11:56am

Any works you do not complete by the time your planning permission expires - need additional planning permission.

HoofRocks · 27-03-2014 12:16pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

its a commencement notice... so you are giving the local authority notice that you are going to commence in no less than 14 days and no more than 28 days.

the works you have to carry out must constitute "development"
so most councils accept the opening of an entrance, others the stripping of the site etc.

Yes I know how much notice you must give.

What determines 'development' is that outlined in the regulation? I just want to know where it states the level of work that must be done.

I understand now it must all be completed within the planning

sydthebeat · 27-03-2014 12:22pm

HoofRocks wrote: »

Yes I know how much notice you must give.

What determines 'development' is that outlined in the regulation? I just want to know where it states the level of work that must be done.

I understand now it must all be completed within the planning

'development' is something that would require planning permission.
why dont you tell us what the issue is ?

HoofRocks · 27-03-2014 1:02pm

Our commencement notice is granted under the old regulations. The level of works we completed were a site survey and we had hedges trimmed in order to prepare to open up. Two weeks after the date we had on our commencement notice a building control officer visited the site and we received a letter the next day saying our commencement notice was void.

4Sticks · 27-03-2014 1:23pm

In the opinion of the BCA you have not started yet.

BryanF · 27-03-2014 1:30pm

HoofRocks wrote: »

Our commencement notice is granted under the old regulations. The level of works we completed were a site survey and we had hedges trimmed in order to prepare to open up. Two weeks after the date we had on our commencement notice a building control officer visited the site and we received a letter the next day saying our commencement notice was void.

add on costs for submitted full dwgs to LA, main contractor involvement, assigned designer and certifier.

sorry for your troubles

please address your concerns to philip.hogan@oireachtas.ie

martinn123 · 27-03-2014 1:40pm

BryanF wrote: »

please address your concerns to philip.hogan@oireachtas.ie

Actually it's

phil.hogan@oireachtas.ie

Tel.01-6183093

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/contact/

HoofRocks · 27-03-2014 2:04pm

4Sticks wrote: »

In the opinion of the BCA you have not started yet.

My argument to that is opinions are not regulations

HoofRocks · 27-03-2014 2:05pm

martinn123 wrote: »

Actually it's

phil.hogan@oireachtas.ie

Tel.01-6183093

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/contact/

I've been in touch with chief fire officer and he has told me that my interpretation of the rule and his interpretation of the rule is different.

That dosn't pass in my book.

What do I say to the minister? Am I fighting a loosing battle?

4Sticks · 27-03-2014 2:06pm

I don't mean to be glib - really I don't.
But you don't have an argument.
You are the player. The BCA is the ref.
Your CN is invalidated.

4Sticks · 27-03-2014 2:18pm

Consumer to benefit from better regulation of building sector

Expect big Phil to tell you that

sydthebeat · 27-03-2014 2:21pm

HoofRocks wrote: »

Our commencement notice is granted under the old regulations. The level of works we completed were a site survey and we had hedges trimmed in order to prepare to open up. Two weeks after the date we had on our commencement notice a building control officer visited the site and we received a letter the next day saying our commencement notice was void.

seriously?? you do not need planning permission to survey a site, or clip a hedge

therefore you did not commence development as you had told the BCO you were going to.

did you not have any professional input into your build?

You are now subject to SI9

HoofRocks · 27-03-2014 3:11pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

seriously?? you do not need planning permission to survey a site, or clip a hedge

therefore you did not commence development as you had told the BCO you were going to.

did you not have any professional input into your build?

You are now subject to SI9

I just want to know where it states in the regulations the level of work I had to have completed by what date after the commencement notice was granted.

I'm not looking for an argument off anyone. I just want to see where I breached the regulation.

sydthebeat · 27-03-2014 3:27pm

HoofRocks wrote: »

I just want to know where it states in the regulations the level of work I had to have completed by what date after the commencement notice was granted.

I'm not looking for an argument off anyone. I just want to see where I breached the regulation.

sorry, im not being flippant.

please answer my question about whether or not a professional was / is involved.

Development" is defined in s.3(1) of the 2000 Act as "the carrying out of any works on, in, over or under land or the making of any material change in the use of any structures or other land".

The terms "works", "land", "use", "structure" and "alterations" are defined in s.2(1) of the 2000 Act. These definitions are significant with regard to the interpretation of the term "development" as used in the Act and the 2001 Regulations.

"Works" is defined as "any act or operation of construction, excavation, demolition, extension, alteration, repair or renewal". In relation to a protected structure or a proposed protected structure it includes "any act or operation involving the application or removal of plaster, paint, wallpaper, tiles or other material to or from the surfaces of the interior or exterior of a structure". (see Chap. 7)

"Land" is stated to include "any structure and any land covered with water (whether inland or coastal)".

"Use" in relation to land is defined as "not including the use of the land by the carrying out of any works thereon".

"Structure" is stated to mean: "any building, structure, excavation, or other thing constructed or made on, in or under any land, or any part of a structure so defined and:
(a) where the context so admits, includes the land on, in or under which the structure is situate and
(b) in relation to a protected structure or proposed protected structure, includes:

(i) the interior of the structure;
(ii) the land within the curtilage of the structure;
(iii) any other structures within that curtilage and their interiors;
(iv) all fixtures and features which form part of the interior or exterior of any structure or structures referred in subparagraph (i) or (ii)" of the "protected structure" or any other structure within its curtilage;

all you had to do was open an entrance and strip an access way and where the house is going....

Penn · 27-03-2014 3:28pm

HoofRocks wrote: »

I just want to know where it states in the regulations the level of work I had to have completed by what date after the commencement notice was granted.

I'm not looking for an argument off anyone. I just want to see where I breached the regulation.

The regulation can't be that specific as a commencement notice relates to a lot of different types of development (eg. it can't say specifically that removing the topsoil is sufficient as not all developments which require a commencement notice will involve the removal of topsoil).

The issue is that you haven't commenced construction of what you were granted permission for. Your site survey and trimming the hedges were in preparation of the works commencing, but no actual part of the construction has taken place. Nothing has physically happened to the site to indicate that construction of what you were granted permission for is about to begin.

You need to consult with the professional dealing with your project.

This element of discussion is getting too specific into an individual case. This forum is for general discussion purposes only. Legal/Professional advice must be sought from an appropriate professional.

HoofRocks · 27-03-2014 3:32pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

sorry, im not being flippant.

please answer my question about whether or not a professional was / is involved.

all you had to do was open an entrance and strip an access way and where the house is going....

Yes I have an engineer and architect.

It's not a case of 'all I had to do' I would of done it. I will do it. My question is where in the regulation does it state I had to do this within a space of time of the granted commencement date. That's all I'm asking.

Penn · 27-03-2014 3:39pm

HoofRocks wrote: »

Yes I have an engineer and architect.

It's not a case of 'all I had to do' I would of done it. I will do it. My question is where in the regulation does it state I had to do this within a space of time of the granted commencement date. That's all I'm asking.

Commencement Notices mean you're saying the works will begin in no less than 14 days and no more than 28 days. So if you haven't commenced the works 4 weeks after you submit the commencement notice, the commencement notice you submitted is no longer valid.

Item 6 - http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,1594,en.pdf

The notice must be given to the authority not more than 28 days and not less than 14 days before commencement of the works or a material change of use

HoofRocks · 27-03-2014 3:39pm

Penn wrote: »

The regulation can't be that specific as a commencement notice relates to a lot of different types of development (eg. it can't say specifically that removing the topsoil is sufficient as not all developments which require a commencement notice will involve the removal of topsoil).

The issue is that you haven't commenced construction of what you were granted permission for. Your site survey and trimming the hedges were in preparation of the works commencing, but no actual part of the construction has taken place. Nothing has physically happened to the site to indicate that construction of what you were granted permission for is about to begin.

You need to consult with the professional dealing with your project.

This element of discussion is getting too specific into an individual case. This forum is for general discussion purposes only. Legal/Professional advice must be sought from an appropriate professional.

I totally agree and respect this post. I only posted on this forum for discussion purposes. If I overstepped I apologise. I just thought other people may have had a similar experience given the recent changes.

sydthebeat · 27-03-2014 3:42pm

HoofRocks wrote: »

Yes I have an engineer and architect.

It's not a case of 'all I had to do' I would of done it. I will do it. My question is where in the regulation does it state I had to do this within a space of time of the granted commencement date. That's all I'm asking.

when you sign the commencement notice you are giving notice that you are going to carry out works

(in accordance with Part II of the Building Control Regulations)

part II of the BC regs

(a) the erection of a building,
(b) the material alteration or extension of a building, and
(c) a material change of use of a building,

you must carry out works as ive describe above which constitute 'development'

HoofRocks · 27-03-2014 3:46pm

Penn wrote: »

Commencement Notices mean you're saying the works will begin in no less than 14 days and no more than 28 days. So if you haven't commenced the works 4 weeks after you submit the commencement notice, the commencement notice you submitted is no longer valid.

Item 6 - http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/BuildingStandards/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,1594,en.pdf

Notice must be given not less than 14 days and not more than 28 days of commencement. I complied with this regulation and received a letter of confirmation.

"So if you haven't commenced the works 4 weeks after you submit the commencement notice, the commencement notice you submitted is no longer valid.
"

On this note I don't agree as my confirmation letter stated I coudn't start before the date I had given.

sydthebeat · 27-03-2014 3:47pm

HoofRocks wrote: »

Notice must be given not less than 14 days and not more than 28 days of commencement. I complied with this regulation and received a letter of confirmation.

"So if you haven't commenced the works 4 weeks after you submit the commencement notice"

On this note I don't agree as my confirmation letter stated I coudn't start before the date I had given.

of course you couldnt.

read again:
not less than 14 days and not more than 28 days from the date you give.

what has your architect / engineer said on the issue?

Commencement Notice

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