Iona vs Panti

nagirrac

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Nope. Connelly was going to rebel with or without the IRB. It was the IRB who then decided to join with Connelly when they realised he was going with or without them.

My reading of the events of the time suggest the IRB were planning an insurrection in 1916, and were forced to the Easter date by Connolly, who as you say wanted to go it alone. The IRB had by then coopted Connolly and his ICA, as however ineffective the rising was (from a military standpoint), it would have been even more chaotic with two raggle taggle armies fighting the Empire.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There was a bit of spin after the event which placed Pearse in the fore-front to diminish the role of the Left.

While I agree Pearse gets more credit than he is due, as he was effectively the spokesperson for the IRB, how big a role did the Left play in the subsequent war of independence? After Larkin emigrated and Connolly was dead, the Labour party was a pretty minor player, as the 1919 national election demonstrates.

I am not saying you do it, but there is a tendency in some quarters to portray the Left as some kind of secular force in Irish history. The evidence suggests that the Labour party and its members were just as socially conservative as the rest of the country. The two leaders of the Irish Labour Party from 1932 to 1977 were members of the Knights of St Columbanus, hardly a bastion of secularism. The sad reality is that all political parties were just as compliant in deferring to the moral guidance of the RCC.

Brian Shanahan

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

It won't be that much longer that you'll have Irish people feeling that Catholicism has some particular reason to be listened to, even if it is probably the main reason that we're living in an Irish State.

Yeah the organisation that constantly and consistently machinated against Irish independence was the reason Ireland became independent.

Next thing you'll be telling us is that the recent storms were as a direct result of support for gay marriage.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're getting involved in the discussion at all if you think the whole thing is pointless.

I'm not sure, either.

MrPudding wrote: »

Do there have to be legal differences for it to be worth doing? <...>

For me, yes. There has to be a point to the thing. Principles that are good in themselves belong to religions.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If you think a gay couple not being allowed to adopt as a couple thereby denying a child of gay parents the right to have both their parents legally recognised as trivial then I would question why that is.

That could be be a specific issue, so long as it's not about complete strangers adopting a child from some part of the planet that we're meant to assume is not fit for human habitation. If this is the nub, it should be clearly stated as the point of all this, instead of listing a pile of stuff that doesn't matter.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There are 160 Statutory differences between Civil Partnership and Marriage.

Grand, I must have mixed them up with the 700 years of oppression. I usually stop counting once I get to hrair. And, no, I won't be wading through 160 monuments to someone's ego. If they want my vote, they can make their grievance digestible. Meantime, I'll be reading something informative. About something else. Like growing tomatoes.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

If the leaders of the Rising survived, would Ireland have capitulated to the Catholic Church so easily?

Probably. It's not like the course of history would be changed by a dozen guys.

Or perhaps you fashionably and happily believe that it's all a simple matter of evil dictators rather than whole populations of evil people like... ourselves?

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Yeah the organisation that constantly and consistently machinated against Irish independence was the reason Ireland became independent.

You've misread the point. I haven't suggest that the organisation, in the sense of the Hierarchy, had much to do with it. I've suggested exactly what I said.

PopePalpatine

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Grand, I must have mixed them up with the 700 years of oppression. I usually stop counting once I get to hrair. And, no, I won't be wading through 160 monuments to someone's ego. If they want my vote, they can make their grievance digestible. Meantime, I'll be reading something informative.

"160 monuments to someone's ego"? Bloody hell, you're David Quinn-class obnoxious.

Corkfeen

The full John Waters transcript has come out. It's rather terrifying tbh.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/02/09/its-not-even-gay-marriage-im-opposed-to-its-the-idea-of-gay-adoption/#more-303498

AerynSun

PopePalpatine wrote: »

"160 monuments to someone's ego"? Bloody hell, you're David Quinn-class obnoxious.

I'm not convinced that GCU isn't David Quinn.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

PopePalpatine wrote: »

"160 monuments to someone's ego"? Bloody hell, you're David Quinn-class obnoxious.

I'm like David Quinn? Feck. the human mind does strange things in trying to make reality comprehensible.

Can I quote instead that well-known closet Catholic Hunter S. Thompson.

That last outburst was probably unnec­essary, but what the hell? Let them drink Drano if they can't take a joke. I'm tired of wallowing around in this goddamn thing.

Bannasidhe

nagirrac wrote: »

My reading of the events of the time suggest the IRB were planning an insurrection in 1916, and were forced to the Easter date by Connolly, who as you say wanted to go it alone. The IRB had by then coopted Connolly and his ICA, as however ineffective the rising was (from a military standpoint), it would have been even more chaotic with two raggle taggle armies fighting the Empire.



While I agree Pearse gets more credit than he is due, as he was effectively the spokesperson for the IRB, how big a role did the Left play in the subsequent war of independence? After Larkin emigrated and Connolly was dead, the Labour party was a pretty minor player, as the 1919 national election demonstrates.

I am not saying you do it, but there is a tendency in some quarters to portray the Left as some kind of secular force in Irish history. The evidence suggests that the Labour party and its members were just as socially conservative as the rest of the country. The two leaders of the Irish Labour Party from 1932 to 1977 were members of the Knights of St Columbanus, hardly a bastion of secularism. The sad reality is that all political parties were just as compliant in deferring to the moral guidance of the RCC.

Oh, I think the Left completely bottled it tbh and the Labour Party may as well have disbanded.

Bannasidhe

PopePalpatine wrote: »

"160 monuments to someone's ego"? Bloody hell, you're David Quinn-class obnoxious.

That comment told me all I need to know about that poster's position.

Brian Shanahan

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're getting involved in the discussion at all if you think the whole thing is pointless.

Because if he were honest he'd admit that he doesn't think its pointless, and that his previous such insisting was to try and disguise the fact that he's against equal rights for all.

Bannasidhe

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Because if he were honest he'd admit that he doesn't think its pointless, and that his previous such insisting was to try and disguise the fact that he's against equal rights for all.

Growing tomatoes is his real passion.

AerynSun

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

Let them drink Drano if they can't take a joke.

I have no sense of humour whatsoever. None. Zip. Nada.
And do you think I can find anywhere that will sell me any Drano in Ireland, nope. Fresh out of luck. Guess you're stuck with us.

Brian Shanahan

PopePalpatine wrote: »

The Easter Rising makes me think "what if?" a lot. If the leaders of the Rising survived, would Ireland have capitulated to the Catholic Church so easily?

I wonder if the Catholic Church could have seized control as easily if the Home Rule Party were successful, too.

The problem wasn't so much the Easter Rising, sans Casement & Connolly, our most independent thinking leaders managed to survive. The problem was that most of them were killed either in the War of Independence or Civil War, and those left were mentally and physically exhausted after five years of constant fighting.

The greatest tragedy of modern Ireland IMO was deV not accepting the best possible deal and working with the treaty from 1921.

But this is getting way off topic.

nagirrac

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

The greatest tragedy of modern Ireland IMO was deV not accepting the best possible deal and working with the treaty from 1921.

The greatest tragedy of modern Ireland was partition, as it effectively created two sectarian states.

Bannasidhe

nagirrac wrote: »

The greatest tragedy of modern Ireland was partition, as it effectively created two sectarian states.

It also started a trend of short-term, ill conceived 'solutions' that led to massive problems down the road - aka. an Irish solution to an Irish problem.

vitani

Corkfeen wrote: »

The full John Waters transcript has come out. It's rather terrifying tbh.
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/02/09/its-not-even-gay-marriage-im-opposed-to-its-the-idea-of-gay-adoption/#more-303498

'king hell. RTE need to print that out and send it to him with an invoice for €40k.

I don't know why he seems to have decided that gay marriage/adoption is anything to do with father's rights.

AerynSun

vitani wrote: »

'king hell. RTE need to print that out and send it to him with an invoice for €40k.

I don't know why he seems to have decided that gay marriage/adoption is anything to do with father's rights.

Best bit: "I don’t know about you but if was 17/18 and my child was stolen and they give him to two gay people I would make my own arrangements…"

vitani

AerynSun wrote: »

Best bit: "I don’t know about you but if was 17/18 and my child was stolen and they give him to two gay people I would make my own arrangements…"

I liked the bit about the two brothers buggering each other. Almost as much as the two guys in shiny suits being a satire of civilisation.

Pherekydes

vitani wrote: »

I don't know why he seems to have decided that gay marriage/adoption is anything to do with father's rights.

Because he's a father, and everything that happens in society is about him.

It all becomes clear.

AerynSun

vitani wrote: »

I liked the bit about the two brothers buggering each other. Almost as much as the two guys in shiny suits being a satire of civilisation.

Oooer, here's another good bit:

"But again they can’t stop talking about transsexuals and transsexual nuns and transsexual gays, you know, I mean, you know, we’re moving towards gay abortion, you know, how can we actually further, keep moving this?"

Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Wait, what?!?

Turtwig

Colour me skeptical but has anyone confirmed this is an actual transcript of the interview or just general internet glurge. I'd be loathe to strongly dislike Waters for inaccurate reasons and he would never stop reminding the world of it.

Bannasidhe

AerynSun wrote: »

Oooer, here's another good bit:



Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Wait, what?!?

Gays having abortions or gays being aborted?

RGDATA!

Jernal wrote: »

Colour me skeptical but has anyone confirmed this is an actual transcript of the interview or just general internet glurge. I'd be loathe to strongly dislike Waters for inaccurate reasons and he would never stop reminding the world of it.

you can listen to the entire thing on soundcloud, linked to with the transcript on broadsheet.

SpaceTime

What I don't understand is why were RTE in such a rush to do anything?

The speed at which they wrote the cheques was remarkably fast.

I would have thought that the wheels in any legal process would move much more slowly and that you would take sufficient time to figure out what your options are before paying anything or apologising for anything either.

If anyone had gone to the High Court, it would have taken months and months anyway !

I mean, even if you send someone an invoice, you wouldn't be expecting payment for at least 30 days. For something like this, I think the person receiving the legal letters would normally take a considerable amount of time (as long as possible and as necessary) to decide what their position was.

It makes RTE look very weak.

Bannasidhe

SpaceTime wrote: »

What I don't understand is why were RTE in such a rush to do anything?

The speed at which they wrote the cheques was remarkably fast.

I would have thought that the wheels in any legal process would move much more slowly and that you would take sufficient time to figure out what your options are before paying anything or apologising for anything either.

If anyone had gone to the High Court, it would have taken months and months anyway !

Hmmmmm ......'The speed at which they wrote the cheques was remarkably fast'.....Kinda reminds me of the banking bailout now that you put it that way.

Nodin

Jernal wrote: »

Colour me skeptical but has anyone confirmed this is an actual transcript of the interview or just general internet glurge. I'd be loathe to strongly dislike Waters for inaccurate reasons and he would never stop reminding the world of it.

“Well you know if two brothers applied to adopt a child, they’d be laughed out of court but the fact that they’re buggering each other would make a difference, would it?”
http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/02/09/its-not-even-gay-marriage-im-opposed-to-its-the-idea-of-gay-adoption/#more-303498

Ctrl+F for whatever ticklers yer fancy.

aloyisious

...................... cheque from RTE.......................... resignation from BAI ................................. end of ....................................... not saying at all :-,)

david75

OT but We were always told Pearse was gay.

Turtwig

Folks there are some valid criticism in a recent feedback thread. So a couple o friendly reminders and hugs and biscuits.

- If you suspect someone of trolling, report the post. Please, don't call them out on trolling in thread.
- If you are surprised by a moderation action or lack thereof, please pm, report posts, post in the feedback thread. Do not make the post in the active discussion thread.
- Please try to keep things civil. If needs be take a moment away from the PC/Device and sip a tea/coffee then say what you're going to say. e
- Tempting as it is don't overdo replies to banned posters. Remember too that everyone has their right/privilege to fair DRP.

There, that's a few things. Probably other stuff but all can be summed up by don't be dick.

Now back to the delectabe discussion.

rughdh

Nodin wrote: »

...

Ctrl+F for whatever ticklers yer fancy.

Feather underpants work for me.