organic farming

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121690283#Comment_121690283

Not a hope commercial peat extraction for such purposes will not be allowed under any circumstances

The only other solution than straw will be fine wood chippings

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121690283#Comment_121690283

That won't be happening anytime soon. Peat is the enemy for the green tinged among us. You'll be told to buy straw at whatever cost or out winter. Sure yer not even allowed plant trees in peat soils now.

Silverdream

Irish Organic Association yearly payment due, if you pay before Feb 1st you get a discount.

Can't see peat being allowed either, it goes against the whole ethos of organic farming. I've been using a mixture of straw and old hay for bedding, it's on the limit of whats acceptable as I have been forking the dung back into the straw. ( basically using a 4 prong fork to turn the dung below the straw.

893bet

I would say peat (arguably as a natural material) and sawdust are all ready acceptable under the regulations. Snip below.

No idea why people think straw is only option.

endainoz

I get home they're very strict on it, but my first year of housing in conversion I was allowed to use peat, this was due to a shortage of straw from that year.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691447#Comment_121691447

I specifically read somewhere in the Organic Trust material that peat is NOT allowed.

n1st

Straw, rushes or untreated wood chippings only.

Peat will never be permitted as it involves the destruction of another ecology.

https://organictrust.ie/the-organic-trust-and-the-organic-principles

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691837#Comment_121691837

Except it was previously permitted once as I previously posted. But yeah its pretty unlikely, the funny thing is that the straw shortage issue is completely self inflicted due to poor policy.

Rusheseverywhere

was a dept circular letter I got 2 plus years ago that peat id definitely forbidden. To be fair straw incorporation scheme does make sense as putting P and K back into tillage land. Prob be alot more lads using rushes for bedding and I can sort ye.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/bnm-to-expand-into-peat-bedding-market/

Only 5 years ago but ancient history already

alder9

Also interested in a change of career and getting into farming. Would anyone know if it’s generally possible to get any of the direct payment income support grants if your farm is divided into two parcels that are located 1km from each other? Thanks.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749871#Comment_121749871

Shouldn't be a problem unless the total area is too small which I doubt given that you're considering changing career to do it.

However, Few people can change career into farming unless independently wealthy or very low outgoings, single no mortgage or the the like. Or massive farm.

Under 40, being female, going organic all increase what you can draw.

Engage a good farm planner who is proactive (not Teagasc) and they should be able to give you a good idea of how much € you could draw down in terms of grants and what/how much activity/livestock you'd need to draw these.

It's quite complicated these days compared to the past and even for those of us who built up our knowledge gradually it's still a minefield of terms and conditions. This is where an excellent proactive planner will make money for you.

Unless you've excellent type land and want hardship, concentrate on the grants and stock as low as allowed. It's against every principle but it makes economic sense.

Good luck, you'll need it.

alder9

Thanks Packrat for this advice. I’d still look to continue part time work for as long as need be. Thanks for the tip regarding a planner and Teagasc. Just out of curiosity , when you mention the total area, how much land is too small to apply for the basic farming income assistance grants? I have been looking at two parcels of land, one is 10 acres and the other is 20 acres. Would the combined total of 30 acres be enough to get direct payment assistance?

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121750304#Comment_121750304

Do you own this land or are you planning to buy? Nevertheless, 30ac is loads. You don't need a big area

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121750304#Comment_121750304

You must have plenty of surplus cash .What % return on investment do you expect out of curiosity by going farming

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749871#Comment_121749871

It wasn’t planned like that but I’m hoping to have fully changed career in early 2026 by becoming a full-time dairy farmer. I’ll be 49 at that stage and will have a farm loan of around €50k to pay off.

I’m from a farming family and after 13 years away, I started back farming with my brother in 2015 as a hobby. We bought 17 store lambs that August. I switched to calves and cattle along the way, after sickening my brother with sheep and my enthusiasm 😂

I just discovered a grá for farming but owning your own land is a huge part of it. My theory is that I’ll make a living on the 75 acres I’ll have in 2026. The reality might be different but I’ll know more if I can get going milking 32 cows part-time in 2025 (4 rows of cows in an 8-unit parlour). My OH works part-time, we’ve 3 boys, and a small mortgage.

I’m boring you with all these details to say anything is possible if you want to change careers. You’ll figure out the direct payments and various schemes.

My only advice would be to think in terms of years and to become a regular on the farming threads on here. There’s a great community of people here.

Edited just to say I’m not organic but trying to slowly move in that direction

Kevhog1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121750685#Comment_121750685

Fair play kieran. It's nice to read positive stories like yours.

Best of luck with the transition.

Water John

I think 60c/l is available for winter milk. 32 cows x 4Kltrs = 128k/ltrs x .55 = €70.5K Can you achieve that? Does it give you enough margin?

You probably can take to 40 cows in a few years, €88K.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754990#Comment_121754990

Do cow milk off fresh air during the winter

Water John

That's gross output? One has to decide, considering the feed needed, is it worth it? If he can grow an arable crop and treat it, along with some red clover silage. Each farm costs would be different. The question is can he get by on a gross output of €88K? I might want a gross output of €100/120K to consider full time. That's a decision for each person.

Do you look at what's available for labour in the market? But the person seems to have their heart set on farming.

893bet

I had my first organic inspection last week. Went grand. No issues raised of note!

Butcher Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755382#Comment_121755382

Was it a department inspection or the organic trust. Did they give you notice or just turn up.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755446#Comment_121755446

Planned annual inspection by certification body. Unannounced can always happen.

Butcher Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755704#Comment_121755704

A brother of mine had a Department inspection before Christmas .Not so bad walked all the farm and made sure all boundary fence was right.counted the sheep and paper work was the big thing. 48 hours notice.

endainoz

Agriland doing a series on organic farming starting Monday, may be of interest to some here.

Siamsa Sessions

Is is possible to increase copper levels in the soil?

I’ve noticed yearlings have a slight dull colour in recent days. Saw the same last year with yearlings out on grass in April/May.

I’m not concerned but more interested to see if I could naturally “fix” it.

Any suggestions?

Water John

That could be an imbalance of minerals. Can't remember is it Molybdenum or Selenium that could be locking the copper. Others here might know.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121816616#Comment_121816616

Spray copper sulphate. Be difficult to do though, and I’d say the amount you’d need could be large?

Also, as Walter John said, you’d need to know what you were at.

I assume that’s how animals got their copper before, from the ground where potatoes were before?

https://www.teagasc.ie/crops/soil--soil-fertility/trace-elements/grassland/copper/

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121816616#Comment_121816616

There's soil tests by some labs that do an Albrecht type of test to see what range all those micronutrients are and if they are in the ideal range.

If you spread Sulphur in a big go it can cause Copper to be less available. I'd nearly do the tests for copper before committing to spraying on Copper sulphate. You can have too much copper which is a larger problem than too little. It doesn't take much copper sulphate to bring it up on the tests. It's potent stuff.

If you are close to the coast you may actually have a good supply of sulphur being blown in with spray in the air.

You can get chelated copper that's mixed with molasses that you could put in the water or licks or copper boluses that'd do in the meantime for soil tests to come back. You'd know a copper deficiency straight away by a brown coat on a black haired animal.

Edit: This sounds strange but that's me anyway. If a bull ingests a higher supply of copper than normal (like from a bolus) he'll be more favourable to give bull calves to the cows. The same would probably be true by soil applied or foliar applied copper. Something to give thought to if looking for heifer calves. Don't anybody ask for links or peer reviewed papers on the statement.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121816761#Comment_121816761

High molybdenum levels can lock up copper. In high molybdenum soils it’s better to keep PH 6 or under. High PH isn’t recommended on high molybdenum soils.

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121817033#Comment_121817033

Chelated copper isn't what's wanted with mo. You want to get the mo locked up in the digestive system with free copper otherwise it binds to copper in enzymes etc making them less effective.

If it binds with free copper in the digestive system it's inert and won't do any damage then