organic farming

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119727300#Comment_119727300

I got half the story as usual 😏 They really are desperate to get dairy farmers to sign up, bigger grant rate and now this

massey 265

Any existing organic farmers out there considering going into new acres scheme?i checked it out and it could be alot more lucrative than glas scheme was due to double funding deductions.take 30 hectare farm.18 ha good land and 12 ha poor land.when in glas had 10 ha l.i.p.p.3140 1 ha bird cover 900 and protection of watercourse 836 total 4966.all actions taken on the 12 ha of poor land.organic scheme payment 30 ha at 170 was 5100 take 11 ha double funding deduction of 1870 gives organic payment of 3230.total glass 4966 plus organic 3230 is 8196.

Same farm acres options 400 mtrs new hedge row 2116.grass margin grassland 1.5 mtrs wide 2460 mtrs long 2460.riparian strip 2mtr wide 2000 long.2600.total 7176.organic scheme 30ha by 250 is 7500 plus 1400 top up total 8900.take double funding deduction of 2460 at 1.5 is 3690 mtrs plus 2000 at 2 is 4000 mtrs.total 7690 mtrs is approx 3 quarters of a hectare so 200 .organic payment of 8700 plus acres 7176

Total 15 876.

Looks ok to me.

blue5000

What about the costs with acres, hedge, fencing and planner? What is the max payment for acres? Who has 2 km of river bank? Sorry about all the questions, hopefully we'll get some answers.

mr.stonewall

On a side note. Is anyone sick of the constant text messages from the Dept regarding the organics. It's getting persistent and other important info could over looked.

massey 265

The 400 mtr hedge will cost 3eu per meter.1200 over 5 years is 250 per year which is less than cost to sow 1 ha wild bird cover in glas each year.electric fence will cover fencing.planner is 550 for plan and annual fee of 250 as no farm visit needed over 5 year plan.glas was 450 for plan and 300 annual fee.7300 max in general scheme.600 meter river but surface drains are accectable in acres and got loads of them.these drains were not allowed in glas only streams and rivers showing up blue on map

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119731564#Comment_119731564

I got 3 messages in the space of 10 mins from the Dept last week about the same organics farm walk.

The constant pushing would put me off. It’s the worst mistake any salesman could ever make.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732027#Comment_119732027

14 messages received from DAFM since August

8 have been organics

1 on Acres webinar

1 on Anc payment

2 on Nitrates ( slurry closing date and a green cover consultation)

1 on a reminder of beep fecael egg samples

Last one was a reminder on the eid tags

Shocking to see where the weighting is being pushed or who has the hands on the Nokia 3210 in ag house

893bet

I don’t see the problem. It’s a text. They have money available and want to meet organic targets.

once the window the closed there will be no more I would assume.

Diarmuid B

Has anyone got prices for tonne bags of the organic meal? Local co-op here only does the small bags at €18.50.

also does anyone have any experience with the sobac fertiliser?

releasevalve

Think you have to be in cooperative area for double payment with reduction

clonagh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732916#Comment_119732916

I was talking to a rep from Kiernan's a couple of weeks ago about estimated prices for the new year he said €800 upwards for sheep ration.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119731564#Comment_119731564

When your 80 year old mother, in the ifa forwards them on to you as well you know you better go☹️

Was anyone else at Tom Stacks Farming for Nature walk last Saturday? It was well worth going to. Never seen as many worm castings or spiders in one place. Got some interesting insights to KNF. (He's organic which is why I'm firing the comment into this thread!)

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738320#Comment_119738320

I wasn't at it but I spoke to him on the phone a few years back. He's taking it to a whole different level.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738455#Comment_119738455

Yeah, the farm and cows look good to me anyway. We'd align a lot in our thinking I reckon. Biology will work anywhere and the KNF methodology is similar enough to the soil food web stuff I studied so I know enough (to be dangerous) to see how it works. A lot of the inputs farms use just aren't needed, but people need their own personal revelations to really see that. Profit is sanity!

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741700#Comment_119741700

You going trying some of the KNF mixes Herd?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741754#Comment_119741754

I will, but compost to make compost extract is first on the to-do list for here. I'd certainly give a thumbs up to anyone wondering about KNF though.

I see Chris Trump is back on BioFarm this year. I reckon there'll be a subsidised training course next year again.

manjou

Mixed rations delivered are around 650+ there are a couple of people doing them. They are four way mix beans peas oats barley wheat etc. No fillers only the grains. You can also buy straights directly of farmers which can be cheaper. Combi crop is a good feed. Look on donedeal for guys.

Diarmuid B

Was talking to my advisor yesterday about joining up to the scheme. Don’t know if this is common knowledge but if you join Organics then you can’t select the grassland management options in acres if you choose to go into that too. So the LIPP and extensive grazing options aren’t possible for the organic land.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759728#Comment_119759728

You can. But you won’t get paid for organic on that parcel.

Diarmuid B

Be right in saying you’d only get €200 a hectare for that land then as opposed to €350 a hectare for Organics?

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759800#Comment_119759800

The €350/hectare in Organics is for dairying for years 1 and 2, €300/year for years 3-5.

For drystock in Organics it’s €300/ha for years 1-2 and €250/ha for years 3-5.

Siamsa Sessions

Half-organic related: there was an interview in the IFJ last week with the Dutch ambassador on what's happening there to reduce emissions and improve water quality.

Behind a paywall here: https://www.farmersjournal.ie/change-in-netherlands-farming-unavoidable-728343

Two things I took from it were:

(1) He mentions organic farming as an option (as they all do now)

(2) CAP is now focused on "production methods" rather than "production"

No mention of increasing processing capacity, changing supermarkets/consumer demand, or updating the current agri-food supply chain (e.g. give farmers alternative routes-to-market). This guy isn't from the European Commission but he's an EU-level politician so I'm guessing he's reflecting the general mindset in those circles.

Food produced organically but processed and sold conventionally. Is this the reality that Dept and others are not saying out loud?

releasevalve

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759868#Comment_119759868

Last section if you are in Co-operation area acres payment rate reduced by 250

eg. Go for low impact grassland very achievable in organic with potential payment of 400 max on score card and 50 euro bonus payment if bales made in July August if closed for 6 weeks for up to 10 Ha add up to a nice cheque will little management.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119760006#Comment_119760006

I see Tomas Burke was in full flight earlier in the week in Galaway warning farmers of the pitfalls. Tomas is very sound and I'd be heeding his warnings.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/organics-not-the-bed-of-roses-it-is-made-out-to-be/#:~:text=Throughout%20the%20meeting%2C%20speakers%20gave,being%20made%20out%20to%20be%E2%80%9D.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119763698#Comment_119763698

And quick as a flash, Pippa Hackett was complaining about him (and the IFA "leadership") on Twitter for telling the truth about her organic scheme. But her words were something like, the leadership were not engaging or not listening to their members.

It's ironic that she highlights this as an issue of disconnect between Bluebell and the ordinary members. This is probably one of the only issues where Bluebell staffers are actually reflecting what's being said on the ground.

gib1506

Thinking of joining the Organic Scheme , what is the story with Medicines if you have a sick animal ?

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119763986#Comment_119763986

Its funny he mentioned nothing about the organic payment increase or even the payment in general. It's just stuck on the obsession of production which these lads can't seem to get out of. It'll be about farming the land rather than the animal, rightly or wrongly that's the way things are inevitably going.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119764000#Comment_119764000

A sick animal is allowed to get whatever treatment it needs to get better, just the same as a non organic animal. The withdrawal period for medicines will be doubled. A breeding animal is allowed two full courses of antibiotics in a twelve month period but an animal intended for meat is allowed one, if they get two they’re not organic any more.

You have to show that you need to dose for fluke or worms etc using dung samples. Vaccines are ok to use.

manjou

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119763986#Comment_119763986

The thing about organics is somewhere in middle. An animal is worth same in organics as conventional as can still sell as conventional. Is it worth more organically who knows in future but it not worth less. You get paid 250 per hectare plus 1400 after 2 years. What I did was I reduced stocking rate and what resulted was my costs reduced by more because what it was costing me to farm those extra animals was per lu way higher than the costs per lu that were left. So I just thought that I would need to farm alot of extra cattle to earn what I was getting in organic subs.