Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

cnoc

JCX BXC wrote: »

Only 3 scheduled ryanair departures from Shannon tomorrow, the lowest scheduled amount on a Tuesday in years.

Do you know what the reasoning is for such a reduction?

JCX BXC

cnoc wrote: »

Do you know what the reasoning is for such a reduction?

Since 2014 we've gained and lost the following services on Tuesdays in winter:

Berlin on Tuesdays (last winter only)
Paris on Tuesdays (gone since 2016)
Morning Stansted flight on Tuesdays (gone since 2016)
Manchester flight on Tuesdays (gone since 2016)

We've also separately lost the summer routes of Memmingen, Poitiers, Nice, Paris and now Berlin.

Amazing that the airport has managed to maintain some growth after the loss of all these routes.

Next year is not looking good currently,
We've lost:
*Winter service to EWR (Newark) with United
*Service to ORD (Chicago) with United
*Downgrade from 767 to 757 on JFK (New York) service with Delta
*Service to ARN (Stockholm) with SAS
*Service to SXF (Berlin) with Ryanair

We've gained the 2 Norwegian routes, a service to Reus to replace the Berlin service (nothing replacing it in winter) and a service to Toronto. However these routes won't make up the shortfall in numbers.

They may be artificially inflated by the half year of increased Kuwait services and the return of alot of US Military flights, but in regards O&D there will be contractions next year.

Very disappointing at a time when the economy is growing so rapidly.

cnoc

Thanks for the above interesting info.

RocketRaccoon

Only 3 Ryanair departures on Wednesday too.

Shn99

Same amount of departures on Wednesday as Knock. It’s sad that the airport has to rely on transit passengers/troops to up the figures. Wouldn’t be surprised if they laid on extra wants flights either!

JCX BXC

Shn99 wrote: »

Same amount of departures on Wednesday as Knock. It’s sad that the airport has to rely on transit passengers/troops to up the figures. Wouldn’t be surprised if they laid on extra wants flights either!

Only 2 Ryanair flights on Tuesdays to NOC, up from 1 last year. NOC is a completely different ballgame to SNN though, for starters, Ryanair don't have 2 (or any) aircraft based at NOC!

It's not good, however it should at least bring in some extra revenue for the airport. While the route development team have brought in some interesting developments over the years, one would wonder is there much more to be had. Is there anymore niches to exploit?

In the future, I can't see much coming. The only thing I could see realistically is Bristol, possibly some increase on LH to FRA and some other unexpected route. In an Ideal world, I'd like to see Aer Lingus starting Chicago with their A321LR, increased connectivity to Germany flights to Philadelphia and Manchester increased and a route to Amsterdam, however with current market trends it doesn't seem likely. Aviation changes very quickly though so I wouldn't be entirely negative.

Shn99

JCX BXC wrote: »

Only 2 Ryanair flights on Tuesdays to NOC, up from 1 last year. NOC is a completely different ballgame to SNN though, for starters, Ryanair don't have 2 (or any) aircraft based at NOC!

It's not good, however it should at least bring in some extra revenue for the airport. While the route development team have brought in some interesting developments over the years, one would wonder is there much more to be had. Is there anymore niches to exploit?

In the future, I can't see much coming. The only thing I could see realistically is Bristol, possibly some increase on LH to FRA and some other unexpected route. In an Ideal world, I'd like to see Aer Lingus starting Chicago with their A321LR, increased connectivity to Germany flights to Philadelphia and Manchester increased and a route to Amsterdam, however with current market trends it doesn't seem likely. Aviation changes very quickly though so I wouldn't be entirely negative.

Was on about Wednesday! I think management are more concerned on developing this new “Gateway West” plaza thing in the business park than developing new routes

kilburn

My god your so negative about the airport in general

JCX BXC

Shn99 wrote: »

Was on about Wednesday! I think management are more concerned on developing this new “Gateway West” plaza thing in the business park than developing new routes

I know, was only pointing out that's there's even less on a Tuesday!

I always thought it a grave mistake to place the Shannon group and the airport under the same management, they simply won't be able to both be priorities at the one time.

There's is a route development team, however whether these are full time or fully focused is unknown to me.

Shn99

JCX BXC wrote: »

I know, was only pointing out that's there's even less on a Tuesday!

I always thought it a grave mistake to place the Shannon group and the airport under the same management, they simply won't be able to both be priorities at the one time.

There's is a route development team, however whether these are full time or fully focused is unknown to me.

They should have a separate CEO for the Airport. Its a lot for 1 CEO to manage an Airport, Heritage offshoot, Commercial Property business and the IASC

JCX BXC

Shn99 wrote: »

They should have a separate CEO for the Airport. Its a lot for 1 CEO to manage an Airport, Heritage offshoot, Commercial Property business and the IASC

Apparently that was a primary reason for the difficulty in finding a replacement for Neil Pakey! Being able to competently manage the airport and the entire Shannon group is a difficult task.

Shn99

kilburn wrote: »

My god your so negative about the airport in general

Who? I’m certainly not. It’s just the truth at the end of the day

JCX BXC

Shn99 wrote: »

Who? I’m certainly not. It’s just the truth at the end of the day

I'd guess it was a reference to me, however I am fairly unsure.

I'd love to be (and I'm sure Shn99 would too) blindly optimistic about the airport, however developments at the moment are concerning and there's no reason to pretty them up.

mdmix

as shannon airport is seeing this kind of decline in numbers/service when every other airport is seeing growth i think management need to take a look at themselves. it can't be easy after the split with the daa, and they are likely suffering from a lack of talent and contacts. i think its best they brought in some outside help.

i fly out a few times a year, and while there are deals to be had from shannon, they are few and far between. generally i find that dublin is a good deal cheaper on most routes. the last time i flew from shannon i noticed that there were more staff than passengers in the airport at that time. maybe it was just an odd time that i was there, but at that particular time there were a lot of staff standing around doing nothing. this is something management need to look at.

the experience flying through shannon is a pleasurable experience much preferable to other airports. there is plenty of space and its not too crowded yet it provides a nice bar/duty free area and its an easy airport to navigate. unfortunately, in my experience, booking from shannon is an entirely unpleasant experience. the website is designed relatively well, but some features don't work and it still has berlin listed under special offers - a poor website will lose you customers. you also need background knowledge of the airport to book a flight elsewhere online. sky scanner and other online tools still display cancelled routes like paris and berlin. if you don't know and search for the exact dates of the shannon flights you get crazy results like a 20 hr flight from shannon to warsaw via jfk. the same happens when you search with flexible dates. also, most airlines websites load with dublin as the default airport which discourages people in shannons catchment from searching from shannon. attached is what i see on my laptop when i go to aerlingus - it looks like shannon is not an option. these problems are not the shannon teams fault, but they should have someone working with airlines and the likes of sky scanner to improve how customers interact with the airport online.

i flagged it earlier also on the marketing. i would say pretty much everyone here knows the majority if not all the flights from shannon, but the average person does not. almost no-one i talk to knew about the shannon stockholm flight. i also regularly see people i know from limerick check in on Facebook from dublin t2 to jfk - shannon management need to do a lot more on marketing the airport. all these issues are losing the airport customers, and most are an easy fix!

highlydebased

No airport has a role in setting fares - Dublin has vastly more services so economics mean the cost is likely to be cheaper, in particular for Ryanair and Aer Lingus. Not a very pleasant truth.

There is still an idea among the public that Shannon doesn't have flights to suit them, I know people who will drive to Dublin to fly to London etc when they were unaware of their Shannon options regardless of price.

JCX BXC

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/shannon-ceo-hits-out-at-dublin-airport-dominance-814002.html

It's true in ways, Dublin takes up a strangely large proportion of the traffic from Ireland, even despite its capacity issues.

Alot of it has to do with routes unserved from SNN/ORK and the routes served being at much higher frequency, however it's still a little higher than one would assume.

I don't think there's anything one can do except invest in areas outside of Dublin, which would be a good step for many reasons outside airports. Really though I can't see the dominance of DUB loosening any bit in the near future.

Balf

JCX BXC wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/shannon-ceo-hits-out-at-dublin-airport-dominance-814002.html

<...> Really though I can't see the dominance of DUB loosening any bit in the near future.

Indeed, but the CEO's comments seem quite unrealistic. If Shannon is losing out, its not because of policy.

I think the presentation of market share hides the fact that Dublin Airport has simply delivered a whole lot of new business.

Shannon got its independence. Wasn't that what was wanted? It has to take responsibility for its own fortunes.

JCX BXC

http://www.clare.fm/news/loss-berlin-stansted-routes-costing-shannon-airport-70000-passengers-year/

What a brutal poorly researched article. The Stansted cuts aren't new, Infact this is the second winter in a row where they've occured, and Knock has not gained any flights to STN whatsoever! Infact, Knock also lost flights to STN at the same time Shannon did.

It also neglects to mention that Berlin is replaced by Reus next summer.

JCX BXC

Balf wrote: »

Indeed, but the CEO's comments seem quite unrealistic. If Shannon is losing out, its not because of policy.

I think the presentation of market share hides the fact that Dublin Airport has simply delivered a whole lot of new business.

Shannon got its independence. Wasn't that what was wanted? It has to take responsibility for its own fortunes.

I'd agree that its their own loss, and as I've said it's brutally disappointing to see Shannon losing O&D pax at a time when the economy is growing so rapidly. Perhaps the DAA simply have an amazing marketing team, growth strategy and route development team?

One could take Matthew Thomas's comments as a message of 'I can't fix it so less blame someone else' stance.

In regards to your remark on independence, I fully agree. It's clear that the DAA weren't infact suppressing Shannon to an extraordinary amount, however I'm not saying that the independence was a bad thing. Far from it.

I must also comment that it's good to see people in the Midwest with such an upbeat attitude (relatively) when the airport has effectively stopped growing. We see for example in Cork airport, excessive moaning and giving out on all media platforms, despite its exceptional performance over the past 2-3 years. Perhaps a poor local attitude affects an airport alot more than you'd expect? The community in Mayo around Knock airport have an exceptionally good attitude towards the airport, and it performs much better than one would expect considering its low nearby populations.

snotboogie

JCX BXC wrote: »

Balf wrote: »

Indeed, but the CEO's comments seem quite unrealistic. If Shannon is losing out, its not because of policy.

I think the presentation of market share hides the fact that Dublin Airport has simply delivered a whole lot of new business.

Shannon got its independence. Wasn't that what was wanted? It has to take responsibility for its own fortunes.

I must also comment that it's good to see people in the Midwest with such an upbeat attitude (relatively) when the airport has effectively stopped growing. We see for example in Cork airport, excessive moaning and giving out on all media platforms, despite its exceptional performance over the past 2-3 years. Perhaps a poor local attitude affects an airport alot more than you'd expect? The community in Mayo around Knock airport have an exceptionally good attitude towards the airport, and it performs much better than one would expect considering its low nearby populations.

As depressing as it is it's hard to disagree, Prenderville was tearing lumps out of a Cork Airport executive over the lack of routes and price of flights in the airport this morning, I'm sure most listeners were cheering him on. Some of it is driven by pure ignorant hubris (if Dublin has a flight to Orlando/Dubai/every second city on the continent, why can't we), a lot of it is looking over the shoulder at Shannon and the transatlantic routes and a lot of it is a seeping discontent with the huge centralization of the Irish economy, government and infrastructure, an under performing Cork Airport fits nicely with this narrative. I can understand the Shannon Airport CEO's frustrations but I would say they are symptoms of the enormous centralization of the country rather than airport specific policies.

JCX BXC

snotboogie wrote: »

As depressing as it is it's hard to disagree, Prenderville was tearing lumps out of a Cork Airport executive over the lack of routes and price of flights in the airport this morning, I'm sure most listeners were cheering him on. Some of it is driven by pure ignorant hubris (if Dublin has a flight to Orlando/Dubai/every second city on the continent, why can't we), a lot of it is looking over the shoulder at Shannon and the transatlantic routes and a lot of it is a seeping discontent with the huge centralization of the Irish economy, government and infrastructure, an under performing Cork Airport fits nicely with this narrative. I can understand the Shannon Airport CEO's frustrations but I would say they are symptoms of the enormous centralization of the country rather than airport specific policies.

You summed it up pretty nicely here snotboogie, nothing really to add!

zetalambda

snotboogie wrote: »

As depressing as it is it's hard to disagree, Prenderville was tearing lumps out of a Cork Airport executive over the lack of routes and price of flights in the airport this morning, I'm sure most listeners were cheering him on. Some of it is driven by pure ignorant hubris (if Dublin has a flight to Orlando/Dubai/every second city on the continent, why can't we), a lot of it is looking over the shoulder at Shannon and the transatlantic routes and a lot of it is a seeping discontent with the huge centralization of the Irish economy, government and infrastructure, an under performing Cork Airport fits nicely with this narrative. I can understand the Shannon Airport CEO's frustrations but I would say they are symptoms of the enormous centralization of the country rather than airport specific policies.

If that's what you heard, you need to clean your ears out! The issue being discussed on local radio is to do with the differences between the prices out of Cork and Dublin for the same destinations and using the same size planes. It's fairly obvious to anybody with a normally functioning brain that EI are happy enough to provide excessive capacity from Dublin which leaves a lot of people with no other choice but to fly from there unless you have bottomless pockets.

JCX BXC

zetalambda wrote: »

If that's what you heard, you need to clean your ears out! The issue being discussed on local radio is to do with the differences between the prices out of Cork and Dublin for the same destinations and using the same size planes. It's fairly obvious to anybody with a normally functioning brain that EI are happy enough to provide excessive capacity from Dublin which leaves a lot of people with no other choice but to fly from there unless you have bottomless pockets.

Yet far less frequency to far less destination, with alot more competition.

To be honest, Aer Lingus are now a fully privatised company and can charge what they like! There's no political affiliation anymore and there shouldn't be any political attempt to get them to lower prices.

fonzy951

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'd agree that its their own loss, and as I've said it's brutally disappointing to see Shannon losing O&D pax at a time when the economy is growing so rapidly. Perhaps the DAA simply have an amazing marketing team, growth strategy and route development team?

One could take Matthew Thomas's comments as a message of 'I can't fix it so less blame someone else' stance.

In regards to your remark on independence, I fully agree. It's clear that the DAA weren't infact suppressing Shannon to an extraordinary amount, however I'm not saying that the independence was a bad thing. Far from it.

I must also comment that it's good to see people in the Midwest with such an upbeat attitude (relatively) when the airport has effectively stopped growing. We see for example in Cork airport, excessive moaning and giving out on all media platforms, despite its exceptional performance over the past 2-3 years. Perhaps a poor local attitude affects an airport alot more than you'd expect? The community in Mayo around Knock airport have an exceptionally good attitude towards the airport, and it performs much better than one would expect considering its low nearby populations.

I think calling the growth at Cork airport exceptional is a little overblown, decent growth maybe, remember Cork had years of negative growth before this. Also the reason for excessive moaning from Cork (as you like to call it) I think stems originally from the way the debt of the new airport terminal was handled. The government guaranteed they would be no debt at the airport and then changed its mind after the terminal was built, pretty cynical stuff and it did put the airport in a very difficult financial position. I'm sure if this happened in Shannon they would never complain

snotboogie

zetalambda wrote: »

If that's what you heard, you need to clean your ears out! The issue being discussed on local radio is to do with the differences between the prices out of Cork and Dublin for the same destinations and using the same size planes. It's fairly obvious to anybody with a normally functioning brain that EI are happy enough to provide excessive capacity from Dublin which leaves a lot of people with no other choice but to fly from there unless you have bottomless pockets.

I didn't hear it haha I saw the discussion about it over on PROC. Sorry if I misrepresented.

I think your bottomless pocketss remark is completely overblown. I fly EI from Cork all the time and the most I've ever paid for a flight was €220.

Brennans Row

JCX BXC wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/shannon-ceo-hits-out-at-dublin-airport-dominance-814002.html

I don't think there's anything one can do except invest in areas outside of Dublin, which would be a good step for many reasons outside airports. Really though I can't see the dominance of DUB loosening any bit in the near future.

Investing in the IASC is one good pillar for the Airport's future.

Mr Thomas said that the Shannon Group hopes to press ahead with building the world’s biggest airport hangar next year.

He said: “The building of hangars are central to the growth of the aviation and aerospace cluster at Shannon. Hangars are low margin and expensive. We hope to build the world’s largest one next year if the financials add up.”

zetalambda

JCX BXC wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/shannon-ceo-hits-out-at-dublin-airport-dominance-814002.html

It's true in ways, Dublin takes up a strangely large proportion of the traffic from Ireland, even despite its capacity issues.

The figures regarding passenger percentage using Dublin are a bit skewed in my opinion. A significant amount of Dublin airport passengers are from northern Ireland so if we're going to include them in our statistics for passenger numbers in the republic then we should really be looking at things from an all Ireland perspective and incorporating annual passenger numbers from Belfast city and Belfast international which results in Dublin still being the dominant airport in the state but with a more realistic 68% share of the market.

mdmix

JCX BXC wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/shannon-ceo-hits-out-at-dublin-airport-dominance-814002.html

It's true in ways, Dublin takes up a strangely large proportion of the traffic from Ireland, even despite its capacity issues.

Alot of it has to do with routes unserved from SNN/ORK and the routes served being at much higher frequency, however it's still a little higher than one would assume.

I don't think there's anything one can do except invest in areas outside of Dublin, which would be a good step for many reasons outside airports. Really though I can't see the dominance of DUB loosening any bit in the near future.

i agree to an extent but i think there is a lot that can be done. iv outlined a few things that could improve the customer experience, most of these are easy wins. i think there is a perception that shannon is served less than it currently is and as a result customers in the catchment area are using dublin as a default. this perception needs to be challenged. shannon need to market themselves better, not by printing fly shannon on rugby players arses, but by printing fly shannon to x on this day of the week for x number of nights starting at €x, check shannonairport.ie or airline.com for more - printed on the side of a bus in limerick and galway. yes, this should be the airlines responsibility, but too many routes are being cut too soon after starting so shannon marketing need to step in. shannons social media is run pretty well but there general online advertising is poor. i constantly get ads for aer lingus via dublin or klm via cork, i rarely seem to see anything from shannon, and if so it just says fly shannon, doesn't say where to or how!


transport is another thing, its great that the limerick galway expressway stops at shannon, but dublin airport better served by bus as it stops in the city and in castletroy. shannon should try get bus eireann to include castletroy or raheen in one of its airport services.

there is plenty more that can be done so hopefully management can put a plan together. if shannon could match % growth in other airports they could reach 2million passengers fairly soon.

knockon

United 24 service to EWR will be moving to the later departure time of 12.15pm when it resumes in March. Source is United Flight crew

JCX BXC

If true, I can see the service folding altogether. It's early departure time is what kept it so attractive.