Timber!!

menoscemo

overpronator wrote: »

Thanks lads, I'm just wondering about next week and what I should do as my midweek session. Wednesday will be 10 or so days out from Bohermeen so a good time to get one last session in. Would it be better to do 7@hmp, 4x2 maybe or even some 800s at 5-10k pace to sharpen up? There is no midweek session prescribed in p&d d for next week bit I'd like to get one more in all the same as I'll probably run easy all of the following week.

I'd be more than happy with 6@ HMP heading into a half tbh. Especially given it was windy and hilly.
Is there a HM race on your P&D schedule or would you be adding it in?

I'd tend to think that if you are following a schedule everything has a reason so best not to go adding more workouts to it than you need. Of course it can be wise to swap workouts or even weeks around to suit your race schedule, but you shouldn't be trying to make the programme harder overall.

overpronator

Thanks for that Meno, I think you're right about moving weeks around. I reckon on race week that the half will serve as the session for that week with a couple of easy miles either side on the day. The week after the race in the plan is a 55 miles with the session being 7m @HMP. I know I could hit the mileage grand with easy running but there is no way I would attempt that session after an all out half, Im a bad recoverer and I feel I would almost certainly get injured.
I could move that high mileage week to the week before the race and swop it with the prescribed recovery week which in the plan falls the week before the race? Does that sound reasonable?

menoscemo

overpronator wrote: »

Thanks for that Meno, I think you're right about moving weeks around. I reckon on race week that the half will serve as the session for that week with a couple of easy miles either side on the day. The week after the race in the plan is a 55 miles with the session being 7m @HMP. I know I could hit the mileage grand with easy running but there is no way I would attempt that session after an all out half, Im a bad recoverer and I feel I would almost certainly get injured.
I could move that high mileage week to the week before the race and swop it with the prescribed recovery week which in the plan falls the week before the race? Does that sound reasonable?

I haven't got the plan in front of me but I agree. It would be pretty silly to do a workough with 7@ HMP the week after runinng 13.1@HMP!!
The 7 @ HMP is a workout you have built up to and I think it's the peak of the HMP miles?
I'd be inclined to do that workout next week (or skip it all together) and take a 'recovery' week after the race.
In fact I'd make sure to have 4-5 easy days before and after the race itself. As you say the week of the HM make it both your workout and long run.

overpronator

Yeah 7@HMP is the peak session at that pace alright. Ill definitely take the easy days before and after, I got burnt last summer in the build up to DCM for not doing this after the Frank Duffy! Thanks for the advice.

overpronator

I was pretty tired after the session on Thursday but no real soreness in the legs which was good. The plan called for a MLR of 11 miles which I took very easy, I was fine for 9 miles of this but started to tire on the final two, I think it was around 8.45 pace.
After the MLR on Friday night I decided to put my LSR back to Sunday as I felt it would be a serious slog otherwise plus the idea of 40 odd miles in 3 days just seems wrong for someone like me
So instead late on Saturday morning I did an easy 6.5 miles in the phoenix park, I didn't bother with a HRM for this and covered up the watch and just kept it feeling easy. It was a nice enjoyable run and I felt pretty refreshed after it, the pace itself was about 8.30.
I was out of Dublin and back home for my long run on Sunday morning and I managed to get out on the road by 8 am, a rarity for me as I wanted to to watch Ras na hEireann in the afternoon which was on a couple of miles away. This was one of the most enjoyable long runs I've done, a nice frosty morning on country roads through Louth and Meath with nothing but a few dogs barking at me and almost no cars. The plan was to do 17/18 on an out and back route but on my way back I took a slight detour to take in a humdinger of a hill to give the legs a wee jolt. This added a little more onto the run than I thought so it ended up as exactly 19 miles on the button, I didn't bother adding the extra one on for 20 this week as I was starving! Pace wise the run started out very easy with 9 min miles but it gradually turned into a steady effort over the last 10 with fluctuating pace due to the hills. Average pace was 8.20. No water, gels or salt on this one and I felt great, I'm pretty tired today though.

So that was 53 miles for last week which will push out to about 55 this week with the final P&D LT session planned midweek.

overpronator

Very very easy recovery run with the better half last night 6.5 miles pace was a shade over 10 min miles. Average hr was 128, a new low for me. I've only been using a HRM since Christmas but it's a good tool if I can figure out how to get the most out of it and another indicitor of just how far I've got to go before I'm actually fit.

Gavlor

overpronator wrote: »

Very very easy recovery run with the better half last night 6.5 miles pace was a shade over 10 min miles. Average hr was 128, a new low for me. I've only been using a HRM since Christmas but it's a good tool if I can figure out how to get the most out of it and another indicitor of just how far I've got to go before I'm actually fit.

I used my hrm an awful lot last year and whilst it was grand for training, I think it worked against me in a couple of races where I held back even though the legs had more in them.

Just something to bare in mind.

overpronator

Gavlor wrote: »

I used my hrm an awful lot last year and whilst it was grand for training, I think it worked against me in a couple of races where I held back even though the legs had more in them.

Just something to bare in mind.

Yeah that's something that occured to me alright Gavlor, in Bohermeen ive decided to wear the HRM it but I'm not going to display the readout on any of the screens, just have it recording in the background in case it does stump me.

overpronator

Wednesday night was a 12 mile MLR, I had company for this for the middle 7 miles and it was over before I knew it. Running with other people really helps on runs like this which could have been a bit of a slog as the legs were a bit sore and tired here.

Last night I did the dreaded 11 miles with 7@ HMP pace. I wasn't looking forward to this session for the day or two before but it turned out to be ok, not easy certainly but not quite as brutal as I was expecting. My legs were quite heavy for the first 3 miles or so as I could definitely feel that id run 12 the night before but once I got going I loosened up a bit. Average pace was 6.43 for the 7. Really glad to have this session out of the way and I'm interested now to see how I go in Bohermeen, sub 1.30 is still a long shot but I think that my PB of 1.34 should go as I reckon its a couple of minutes soft anyway.

menoscemo

overpronator wrote: »

Last night I did the dreaded 11 miles with 7@ HMP pace. I wasn't looking forward to this session for the day or two before but it turned out to be ok, not easy certainly but not quite as brutal as I was expecting. My legs were quite heavy for the first 3 miles or so as I could definitely feel that id run 12 the night before but once I got going I loosened up a bit. Average pace was 6.43 for the 7. Really glad to have this session out of the way and I'm interested now to see how I go in Bohermeen, sub 1.30 is still a long shot but I think that my PB of 1.34 should go as I reckon its a couple of minutes soft anyway.

7@ 6:43 and you think sub 1;30 is still a longshot? Really? why do you think like that? I would say your odds are about 1/5; you should go sub 1:30 5 out of 6 times....you were travelling last night at sub 1:28 pace after all.

statss

menoscemo wrote: »

7@ 6:43 and you think sub 1;30 is still a longshot? Really? why do you think like that? I would say your odds are about 1/5; you should go sub 1:30 5 out of 6 times....you were travelling last night at sub 1:28 pace after all.

+1
was thinking the same thing, I've been having notions of 1:28 or so myself after my own 6@6.47. Overpronator, I reckon a decent strategy would be to stick with the 1.30 pacer for the first lap and if feeling good (which I'd expect you to be) then push on a bit till mile 10 and then give it everything for the last 5k.

overpronator

menoscemo wrote: »

7@ 6:43 and you think sub 1;30 is still a longshot? Really? why do you think like that? I would say your odds are about 1/5; you should go sub 1:30 5 out of 6 times....you were travelling last night at sub 1:28 pace after all.

I suppose because of how it felt on the run, it felt more like say a 10 mile time trial pace if you know get me, I know it should feel a decent bit easier in the race though with more people around me running that speed. I guess also I'm not experienced enough to know well enough how sessions will translate to race performance. Plus I'm a pessimistic fecker also

Just wondering actually, would you need to be running about 6.45 pace to make sure you make in in under the 1.30, allowing for running the course maybe .2 long with corners and various weaving off the racing line?

overpronator

statss wrote: »

+1
was thinking the same thing, I've been having notions of 1:28 or so myself after my own 6@6.47. Overpronator, I reckon a decent strategy would be to stick with the 1.30 pacer for the first lap and if feeling good (which I'd expect you to be) then push on a bit till mile 10 and then give it everything for the last 5k.

Yeah Statss that's more or less what I had in mind. You thinking similar?

statss

overpronator wrote: »

Yeah Statss that's more or less what I had in mind. You thinking similar?

yup!

overpronator

statss wrote: »

yup!

Good stuff, Ill do my hair so!

menoscemo

overpronator wrote: »

Just wondering actually, would you need to be running about 6.45 pace to make sure you make in in under the 1.30, allowing for running the course maybe .2 long with corners and various weaving off the racing line?

No, if you run 6;45 pace you will be low 1;28. Garmin might measure about 13.2miles but I doubt anymore.
If I were you I would be confident of holding at least 6:45 pace for the race, but if you want to nail the sub 1:30 then I like stass strategy.

However I would get rid of the negative thoughts if I were you. Half this game is in the head. 7 miles @ HMP in training is probably the toughest session I can think of. When you get to the 7 mile point in the race you will feel a hell of a lot better than you did last night. You will likely hurt over the last 5k alright but if your head is in the right place there is no reason why you can't hold the pace regardless.

Tom Joad

+1 to what Meno said. 7 miles @ that pace is a superb session and perfect timing for Bohermeen. Sub 1:30 is prety much nailed on after that session and kudos for even trying it - most I've done @ HMP in build up is 5 mile @ HMP.


Your strategy for the race sounds like a sensible one!!

overpronator

Cheers for the perspective, I'm feeling more confident now. Strange feeling!!:)

tomred1N

menoscemo wrote: »

7@ 6:43 and you think sub 1;30 is still a longshot? Really? why do you think like that? I would say your odds are about 1/5; you should go sub 1:30 5 out of 6 times....you were travelling last night at sub 1:28 pace after all.

I'll throw 500 on him

overpronator

20 mile LR this morning, 8.37 pace, there was nothing fancy about this just a time on the feet outing. I ran it mostly on the trails and grass verges around the park to save the legs as they were still feeling a bit beat up after the Thursday session. It was teetering on the brink of turning into a slog but I got through with some Powerade.
I definitely feel like I need a step back week around now, if I'm honest I felt like I needed it this week so next week I'm just gonna run very easy, probably only 3 times ahead of Bohermeen at the weekend.

overpronator

1.31.04 in Bohermeen, mixed feelings really. It was a 3 minute pb and puts me on course for sub 3.20 territory in London. Legs gave up on me in a big way over the last 1.5 miles and limped home really. What could have been. Great race though, tough as nails today!

belcarra

overpronator wrote: »

1.31.04 in Bohermeen, mixed feelings really. It was a 3 minute pb and puts me on course for sub 3.20 territory in London. Legs gave up on me in a big way over the last 1.5 miles and limped home really. What could have been. Great race though, tough as nails today!

All things being equal you are very close to 3:15 territory based on that time! If you have the long runs banked you should be good. If you don't then make the most of your next 5 weeks of training!!;)

statss

Well done Shane, good to chat to you again, you looked very comfortable while I was around you. I did my 3.17 off a 1.31 so I reckon, like Belcarra, you are very close to 3.15 shape.

overpronator

belcarra wrote: »

All things being equal you are very close to 3:15 territory based on that time! If you have the long runs banked you should be good. If you don't then make the most of your next 5 weeks of training!!;)

Ive got four 20 milers and a 19 under the belt so far, so ill add another 20 and a 22 miler id say over the next few weeks before taper. Ill decide on a final goal once I see how I feel in the longer marathon paced sessions and the fast finish long runs I've got planned!

belcarra

All sounds like a sensible approach!

overpronator

statss wrote: »

Well done Shane, good to chat to you again, you looked very comfortable while I was around you. I did my 3.17 off a 1.31 so I reckon, like Belcarra, you are very close to 3.15 shape.

Cheers Sean, yeah I felt alright for alot of it, I was working hard obviously but hanging on in for a low 1.30 finish I think. The last hill and the wind in my face to the finish just knocked the crap out of me and I couldn't get the legs moving again after that. Its pretty disappointing but not the end of the world, it was still a 3 minute pb so best to take the positives.
I thought you were cruising in the early stages alright and then all of a sudden I couldn't see you, I figured something must have gone wrong for you, pretty frustrating but I've no doubt you'll be sailing in well under 1.30 come summer time.

Gavlor

I hit 3.09 in dcm12 on the back of a 1.30 half.....

3.15 will be no bother to you!!

overpronator

Its tempting Gavor, very tempting!

4 mile recovery run last night 9.30ish pace, legs are still in quite a bad way after Sunday.

overpronator

My legs were still battered and sore last night so I listened to the body, knocked last nights run on the head and did some stretching and rolling. I was very happy I took that descision this morning as I felt a lot better when I got up. Tonight I managed to get out for a 12 mile easy MLR, around 8.30 pace and my legs felt great but the body is still a wee bit tired overall. I was actually really happy to get this in tonight without any issues, feels like I'm back in the game and can get stuck into the last few weeks before taper now. I'll see out the week with more easy running and leave the long run until Sunday.

overpronator

This was a fairly ropey week overall and I still don't quite feel 100% but I managed a 17 mile long run tonight which I was happy about. Important three weeks ahead.