35 year old alcoholic mother dying of liver failure

emmabrighton

Hey, saw this yesterday in the Daily Fail about a woman in her thirties who was drinking up to 40 cans a day. She had 4 kids and they were all taken into care. She is now dying of liver failure and wants to die in her own bed.

This woman has been an alcoholic/addict since her 20s but it doesn't look like she ever received help for her addiction.

I think this is a really sad story. She probably was one of those intimidating scumbags you see knocking around every town/city but she didn't start that way...

Nothing surprising in it, but i have included an exerpt from the article. I wonder how many of us, our mothers and our fathers fall into the below category. Binge drinking on the weekend, or having a glass or three in the evenings. I wonder if our livers have been affected from all that alcohol...

Across all age groups, an extra 1,000 people with alcohol-related liver damage are being admitted to hospitals in England each year.
Experts say few of these would be regarded by other members of the public as alcoholics. Rather they are apparently ordinary people who are unwittingly drinking too much.
This includes middle-aged, middle-class women who enjoy a bottle of wine a day, or successful businessmen who have working lunches.
It has also recently been revealed that an increasing number of mothers are drinking heavily.

gugleguy

What do the kids' dad(s) think, seriously? What is their father going to do for the woman's kids? How responsible does dad feel here? Or is first priority on waking up each morning that can of severe lager or whatever's cheapest?

Lapin

It is a sad story.

emmabrighton

gugleguy wrote: »

What do the kids' dad(s) think, seriously? What is their father going to do for the woman's kids? How responsible does dad feel here? Or is first priority on waking up each morning that can of severe lager or whatever's cheapest?

Probably.

Sort of off the point I was making but how much does 40 cans per day cost? 80? Thats £80 per day... £560 per week? and thats the other thing... clearly on benefits no one could drink that much and hold down a job...

But my original point still stands the 5 year old kid she once was didnt sit on the swings in the playground dreaming of becoming an alcoholic...

Its pretty sad

Akrasia

Every town and villiage in Ireland has people in it who have just given up.

Sometimes it can take more strength than you have to fight and for most people, the best source of strength is the hope of a better future.

It is very easy to imagine how a few bad decisions or a few unfortunate events can completely alter the course of someone's life.

I have had some relatives who hit the bottle very hard after losing a loved one and there is no way to break through to them. It can take years for their own demons to resolve themselves if they ever manage to escape

But then there are also some people who are just complete assholes who never really cared about anyone else in the first place and became alcoholics because it was more fun and easier for them than taking responsibility for their own lives.

Life is full of all kinds of people. Feel really sorry for the kids, I hope their foster parents are taking good care of them and have given them the opportunity to achieve something in their own lives.

Carrie Madshaw

It's insidious, that's the nature of the beast. It can dramatically change (ruin) your live without you even acknowledging there's a problem.

I quit smoking 8 months ago having smoked for 15 years and found it much easier then not buying booze on a Friday night (or a boring Tuesday, or a Wednesday when there's nothing on or a Thursday cos it's almost the weekend etc).

It's more powerful then a lot of people realise I think.

anncoates

I know somebody that was approaching a similar situation but has thankfully kicked it. What is there really to feel except sadness and many of us are closer to that position than we think.

emmabrighton

Carrie Madshaw wrote: »

It's insidious, that's the nature of the beast. It can dramatically change (ruin) your live without you even acknowledging there's a problem.

I quit smoking 8 months ago having smoked for 15 years and found it much easier then not buying booze on a Friday night (or a boring Tuesday, or a Wednesday when there's nothing on or a Thursday cos it's almost the weekend etc).

It's more powerful then a lot of people realise I think.

Well that's it, I suppose... you can buy a bottle of wine or a six pack at the petrol station on the way home from work...

Its mad to think how far we have come... In my grandmothers time, women simply did not drink... it was not the done think.. They weren't even permitted in the bars, had to sit in the lounge... when I was a teen there was the ladette culture... everyone trying so hard to be Liam Gallagher and the like...

Hands up who would regularly drink more than the recommended daily safe limit????

Only one large glass of wine in the evening for a woman? I've definitely drank more than that on a week night...

Recommended daily safe limit Recommended weekly safe limit
Men maximum 3-4 units a day no more than 21 units per week
Women maximum 2-3 units a day no more than 14 units per week


Examples

Type of drink Units

• Pint or can of normal strength lager (Harp, Carling, Boddingtons etc) 2 units
• Pint or can of strong lager (Stella, Red Stripe, Corona, Kronenberg etc) 3 units
• Bottle of lager (Budweizer, etc) 2 units
• 1 litre bottle of normal strength cider (Stongbow, Woodpecker etc) 4.5 units
• 1 litre bottle of strong cider (White Lightening etc) 8 units
• 1 bottle of alcopop ( Bacardi Breezer, WKD, Smirnoff Ice etc) 2 units
• 75cl bottle of Sherry (QC, Harveys Bristol Cream) 26 units
• 75cl bottle of Port 15 units
• 75cl bottle of wine (wine comes in different strengths, check the label) 7-9 units
• Large glass of wine in a pub 3 units
• Standard size bottle of spirits (vodka, gin, brandy, whiskey etc) 26–28 units
• 1 litre bottle of spirits (vodka, gin, brandy, whiskey etc) 40 units
• A single pub measure of spirits (vodka, gin, brandy, whiskey etc) 1 units

Saucy McKetchup

emmabrighton wrote: »

Probably.

Sort of off the point I was making but how much does 40 cans per day cost? 80? Thats £80 per day... £560 per week? and thats the other thing... clearly on

£2 a can? I'd say the 40 cans a day she was supposed to have drank is an exaggeration just like your price for a can, you can get cans for 70 cent in some places

moxin

emmabrighton wrote: »

Hands up who would regularly drink more than the recommended daily safe limit????

Only one large glass of wine in the evening for a woman? I've definitely drank more than that on a week night...

Recommended daily safe limit Recommended weekly safe limit
Men maximum 3-4 units a day no more than 21 units per week
Women maximum 2-3 units a day no more than 14 units per week

The problem is not excess drinking over a weekend(as it has a recovery period of at least 5 days during the week), the problem is excess drinking nearly every day over several years. That's how one gets liver disease.

the groutch

the real question is how she was getting that much booze?
if she was buying it herself, the supermarket/offie staff shouldnt be selling to her in that state.
and if someone was buying it for her, they have alot to answer for as it's pretty much assisted suicide.

emmabrighton

moxin wrote: »

The problem is not excess drinking over a weekend(as it has a recovery period of at least 5 days during the week), the problem is excess drinking nearly every day over several years. That's how one gets liver disease.

Yes but one large glass per night with dinner followed by a blow out on a Friday night and down to the pub for the match on Saturday every week for the duration of your 20s with only Sunday to recover would be sustained excess drinking nearly every day.

Even doing 3 binges a week during your years at university would do it i reckon...

emmabrighton

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

£2 a can? I'd say the 40 cans a day she was supposed to have drank is an exaggeration just like your price for a can, you can get cans for 70 cent in some places

Well I am a daily fail reader :pac: prone to exaggeration

emmabrighton

emmabrighton wrote: »

Recommended daily safe limit Recommended weekly safe limit
Men maximum 3-4 units a day no more than 21 units per week
Women maximum 2-3 units a day no more than 14 units per week


Examples

Type of drink Units

• Pint or can of normal strength lager (Harp, Carling, Boddingtons etc) 2 units
• Pint or can of strong lager (Stella, Red Stripe, Corona, Kronenberg etc) 3 units
• Bottle of lager (Budweizer, etc) 2 units
• 1 litre bottle of normal strength cider (Stongbow, Woodpecker etc) 4.5 units
• 1 litre bottle of strong cider (White Lightening etc) 8 units
• 1 bottle of alcopop ( Bacardi Breezer, WKD, Smirnoff Ice etc) 2 units
• 75cl bottle of Sherry (QC, Harveys Bristol Cream) 26 units
• 75cl bottle of Port 15 units
• 75cl bottle of wine (wine comes in different strengths, check the label) 7-9 units
• Large glass of wine in a pub 3 units
• Standard size bottle of spirits (vodka, gin, brandy, whiskey etc) 26–28 units
• 1 litre bottle of spirits (vodka, gin, brandy, whiskey etc) 40 units
• A single pub measure of spirits (vodka, gin, brandy, whiskey etc) 1 units

A good many of my peers would drink 14 units on each night out, maybe 2 or 3 nights at the weekend, and several more units on a few weeknights. At that rate, a sizeable portion of people my age are drinking three times the recommended limit.

I'm not much of drinker so I'm wary of sounding preachy when I bring it up, but I've one friend I'm quite concerned about. When I try broach the subject I'm dismissed with a 'ah, you're only young once' type response.

The thing is, I've seen her make serious errors of judgement what only avoided disaster because there were less drunk people around to modify her behaviour. We won't always be there though.

I think (from my sober perspective) that many people are flirting with dependence to a degree they're not really aware of, because it's so commonplace to drink so much as a matter of course.

moxin

emmabrighton wrote: »

Yes but one large glass per night with dinner followed by a blow out on a Friday night and down to the pub for the match on Saturday every week for the duration of your 20s with only Sunday to recover would be sustained excess drinking nearly every day.

Even doing 3 binges a week during your years at university would do it i reckon...

Yes, wine is a powerful drink with a high(13%) alcohol content when beer is just about 4%-5%. Depends on size of the glass though, i'd reckon one should not drink more than a third of a bottle a day.
The key also is to have a recovery period of at least 3 days in my opinion, if one doesn't have that into their routine, alarm bells should ring to change one's drinking habits.

My name is URL

Fair play to her boyfriend for standing by her through her illness, whatever else about their lifestyle choices that takes some courage. Don't think I'd be up for it.

SEPT 23 1989

Where did she get the money to drink 40 cans a day? i am sure with that kind of intake you would be classed as disabled and unable to work

whatdoicare

It's very hard in Ireland to give up drink, especially if you're trying to stop.

I rarely drink, I don't come from a big drinking family but I noticed when I was old enough to go out or to visit friends/relatives homes that the alcohol is nearly forced on you!

When I got pregnant, I found out just before Christmas and I got comments like "ah now you can't drink!What are you going to do??" and "sure, one or two won't hurt" I was like, no, no drinking for me thanks... I dont really want it.

I went to my husbands cousins house to introduce them to my five week old and they were pouring the wine for me before I even sat down!

My husband doesn't drink at all after a very scary episode of drink driving when he was young but people who've known him years refuse to accept this and have even switched his lucozade for alcohol in the hopes of getting him going again. I mean, wtf!

It's just the culture here, every social occasion revolves around drinking. It's not too hard to go from that to total dependence and people actively and even aggressively encourage it!

I feel so sorry for that lady and even more so for her kids who lost their mammy and probably didn't have much of a childhood.

Femme_Fatale

gugleguy wrote: »

What do the kids' dad(s) think, seriously? What is their father going to do for the woman's kids? How responsible does dad feel here? Or is first priority on waking up each morning that can of severe lager or whatever's cheapest?

Fairly loaded last sentence. It's the mother who has alcoholism, where does it say that about the father(s)?

gctest50

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Where did she get the money to drink 40 cans a day? i am sure with that kind of intake you would be classed as disabled and unable to work

Bit cheaper in the UK

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1280704/A-barrel-hypocrisy-Tesco-sells-beer-69p-pint-boss-backs-cheap-booze-crackdown.html

.

yawhat!

Lightweight!

kidneyfan

Another victim of the war against the poor.

Wattle

The problem we have in this country is that people are brought up with the notion that socialising of any sort has to involve drink. It's just completely embedded in the culture to a really unhealthy degree. I've lost count of the amount of people in the Non Drinkers Forum and in real life who really want to stop but think their social lives will be finished forever if they don't drink. I find that really sad.

120_Minutes

....and yet certain people (many who frequent this forum) still think cannabis is more dangerous than the auld drop.

BillyMitchel

In today's mirror too.

My old man has cirrhosis of the liver too. It's hard to watch. He went from about 14 stone to about 8 in around 6 months. Doctors said he had no time left 10 years ago but he's still with us. Not in perfect health but he's grand!

He's a very very lucky man. If all the grand kids weren't about I'd say he'd have given in.

sunflower27

Those images are really haunting. God love her. That is no life anyone would choose for themselves. People that say alcoholism cannot become a disease should look at those photos. What a truly sad and tragic life.

Terry1985

kidneyfan wrote: »

Another victim of the war against the poor.

What is this 'war against this poor'??

She has the freedom to do what she wants, her decisions led her to that point.
Governments can barely pay for basic health care, never mind extensive rehab and counseling for self destructive individuals.

TerrorFirmer

Similar to the stories about people who are incredibly fat, you have to wonder where the money comes from? Even if she was drinking, for arguments sake, some 50p own brand rubbish, that's still £20 a day, and £140 a week?

Saw a documentary on Britains fattest man before, he was eating several fry's a day in a cafe, and often going to a takeaway and ordering almost everything on the menu. How does one afford that, given he sat around all day on a couch?

sunflower27

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Similar to the stories about people who are incredibly fat, you have to wonder where the money comes from? Even if she was drinking, for arguments sake, some 50p own brand rubbish, that's still £20 a day, and £140 a week?

Saw a documentary on Britains fattest man before, he was eating several fry's a day in a cafe, and often going to a takeaway and ordering almost everything on the menu. How does one afford that, given he sat around all day on a couch?

Probably because he spends nothing on clothes, cars, nice toiletries, etc. Having seen documentaries on severely obese people, they wear the same clothes, don't go out socialising, don't take holidays. All their money is spent on food and electricity. It is obviously do-able.

sunflower27

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Similar to the stories about people who are incredibly fat, you have to wonder where the money comes from? Even if she was drinking, for arguments sake, some 50p own brand rubbish, that's still £20 a day, and £140 a week?

She possibly got it wholesale somehow, cash and carry or something like that so she got it in bulk instead of having to go to the shop all the time.

sunflower27

My name is URL wrote: »

Fair play to her boyfriend for standing by her through her illness, whatever else about their lifestyle choices that takes some courage. Don't think I'd be up for it.

The way he is looking at her is heartbreaking. Their life together should have been so different. Really upset by this story.

rubadub

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Where did she get the money to drink 40 cans a day?

people seem to have missed the exaggeration. Just like sales with "up to" 99% off.

Ms Pickorer has been drink-dependent for years and at her worst was downing up to 24 cans of lager plus a bottle of perry - pear cider - in the morning, then visiting the pub, then drinking as many as 16 cans when she returned home.

emmabrighton

rubadub wrote: »

people seem to have missed the exaggeration. Just like sales with "up to" 99% off.

Wait, what? I am not sure what your point is...

That she didnt actually drink 40 cans per day? She still is dying from Cirrhosis caused by alcohol dependence...

I think the story would be even scarier if she were only drinking 4 cans per day and some days drinking 40.

nibtrix

whatdoicare wrote: »

My husband doesn't drink at all after a very scary episode of drink driving when he was young but people who've known him years refuse to accept this and have even switched his lucozade for alcohol in the hopes of getting him going again. I mean, wtf!

If someone did that to me (slipped a vodka in when I ordered a coke or something) I would not be speaking with them again, even though I do drink alcohol. The odd night out I just don't feel like it, or maybe I want to skip a round, and the pressure to "keep up" with the group is insane. It really is very difficult to go out and not drink in Ireland due to peer pressure.

The other problem then is that if I say I don't want a drink people start assuming I'm pregnant, and I get "ah go on, tell us, when are you due?" from all sides! Usually I end up taking a gulp out of the drink of whoever is doing the teasing, quickest way to shut them up!

rubadub

emmabrighton wrote: »

Wait, what? I am not sure what your point is...

That she didnt actually drink 40 cans per day?

Yes thats my point, people were confused how she could afford it, and probably doubted if she had the capacity to drink that much. All these people presumably missed the point that it was "up to", bullshit marketing speak, which to me means "ignore everything after this".

ScumLord

Carrie Madshaw wrote: »

It's insidious, that's the nature of the beast. It can dramatically change (ruin) your live without you even acknowledging there's a problem.

In my opinion Drink is easily one of the most dangerous drugs out there. I think it's up there with heroin if it gets a hold of you.

the groutch wrote: »

the real question is how she was getting that much booze?
if she was buying it herself, the supermarket/offie staff shouldnt be selling to her in that state.

Some people can function fine even with massive amounts of a drug in their system, their body just adapts to it. They're not perfect but well enough to not be falling all over the place like a normal person would be.

rubadub

ScumLord wrote: »

Some people can function fine even with massive amounts of a drug in their system, their body just adapts to it.

This goes for processing calories too. I know many big drinkers , including myself at times, whom alcohol does not really effect weight wise.

The line usually trotted out in TV programs & some online guides is that 3500kcal in excess of your usual amount will lead to 1lb fat gain. And you need to use 3500kcal or eat 3500kal less to lose 1lb of fat.

40 cans at say 200kcal each is 8000kcal, 6000kcal above the daily requirement, so in theory 1.7lb fat gain per day, or 44.7stone per year -and that is accounting for no food at all.

Needless to say this is not the case, its not an exact science for humans.

But chronic heavy drinking can prime certain metabolic processes and, in effect, train the body to waste the seven calories a gram that alcohol ordinarily provides.

For example, weight gain was negligible in alcoholics who were given 2,000 calories of alcohol daily on top of the 2,500 calories from foods they consumed to maintain their weight. But when the same number of additional calories were fed as chocolate, a steady weight gain resulted.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/04/health/why-the-body-may-waste-the-calories-from-alcohol.html

MonaPizza

The 40 cans is difficult to fathom. I consider myself to have a tolerance for beer. I would buy maybe 2 four packs of lager on a Saturday and put them on the balcony to cool. I'd then go to the pub to watch the football and suck down maybe 4 or 5 pints. Would then go home about 8pm and crack a can. Usually would get through 4 or 5 of them and would be fairly inebriated. There would usually be 2 or 3 leftover. So that would be the guts of 9 or 10 pints over an 8 or 9 hour period. How someone (especially a female) could put away 4 times that amount is beyond me. Are there even enough hours in the day to do it? I know that hardcore drinkers like Gazza put away maybe 1.5 litres of spirits a day and that's a lot but 40 cans? The sheer volume. That's nearly 5 gallons. If it's true it's awfully sad. She's most likely beyond help.

My name is URL

MonaPizza wrote: »

I know that hardcore drinkers like Gazza put away maybe 1.5 litres of spirits a day and that's a lot but 40 cans? The sheer volume. That's nearly 5 gallons. If it's true it's awfully sad. She's most likely beyond help.

Well, she's definitley beyond help at this stage. She only has days left to live. That's the whole point of the article as far as I can see.

She wants to die at home, but the NHS won't allow it because palliative care at home costs too much.

Really sad story.

I had a bit of a wake-up call myself recently. Was nowhere near as bad as this woman, but had slipped into that habit of having a few drinks practically every other day, and sometimes every day. It's easy to do in London - it's 6pm, Tube is too crowded, let's go for one or two. Watching a movie at home, let's grab a couple of cans. Cooking spaghetti, let's have a nice bottle of red. It's just so easy to end up drinking all the time without really realising you're doing it. I shudder to think how much we've spent on booze over the past few years. I'm not saying I regret it all or that I plan to stop drinking completely, but I definitely want to go back to seeing drinking as a treat - a few Friday night pints or a glass of wine with a meal out.

Galwayguy35

whatdoicare wrote: »

My husband doesn't drink at all after a very scary episode of drink driving when he was young but people who've known him years refuse to accept this and have even switched his lucozade for alcohol in the hopes of getting him going again. I mean, wtf!

Something similar happened to my brother when he was younger, he has never drank alcohol and was lucky not to be killed by a drunk driver years ago.

One when he was in the pub someone put alcohol into his mineral when he wasn't looking.

People are idiots sometimes.

JupiterKid

As someone who has personally struggled with alcoholism, I feel sorry for that woman. The image of her dying in a hospital bed and wasting away are truly harrowing.

Alcoholism is a disease. It is progressive, baffling and cunning. Even when all the signs say you are drinking too much, the disease of addiction still proves alluring.

I'm taking things one day at a time. People such as that woman should serve as a warning to everyone what can happen when the disease of alcoholism takes hold. Very sad.

Sam Kade

I know a couple that started drinking as teenagers, they are almost 50 now and still go drinking 3 nights a week and drink at home during the week wine and sprits. They don't believe that they have a problem with drink as they refer to themselves as social drinkers. When they go out it's pints for both of them and the wife can keep up with her husband drinking pints, if they don't get enough drink in the pub they will head to the nearest late bar. Every occasion is used as an excuse to drink parties, weddings, funerals etc.

emmabrighton

Sam Kade wrote: »

I know a couple that started drinking as teenagers, they are almost 50 now and still go drinking 3 nights a week and drink at home during the week wine and sprits. They don't believe that they have a problem with drink as they refer to themselves as social drinkers. When they go out it's pints for both of them and the wife can keep up with her husband drinking pints, if they don't get enough drink in the pub they will head to the nearest late bar. Every occasion is used as an excuse to drink parties, weddings, funerals etc.

Well, that's one type of problem drinker... other people recognise they have a problem...

But what about the ones who don't even know they are or other people don't think it is because the level of alcohol consumption is normalised?

I bet there are loads of us that drink a couple of glasses of wine with dinner every night and maybe go out once or twice a month... we probably would say thats normal drinking, thats ok... but in another culture you would be considered an alcoholic for doing that...

Sunglasses Ron

I still can't work out where the money to fund this comes from, isn't the UK dole about 60 pound per week? Just about enough to eat. She hardly still gets child benefit, and does the government actually give young people disabled by drink the funds to buy more of it?

Even at 50p a can (which can be got in the UK), and maybe assuming all her food is from charity, that is still only about 120 cans, under 20 per day. I can't fathom this forty figure being affordable on that money.

Turpentine

emmabrighton wrote: »

Well, that's one type of problem drinker... other people recognise they have a problem...

But what about the ones who don't even know they are or other people don't think it is because the level of alcohol consumption is normalised?

I bet there are loads of us that drink a couple of glasses of wine with dinner every night and maybe go out once or twice a month... we probably would say thats normal drinking, thats ok... but in another culture you would be considered an alcoholic for doing that...

You could drink a can of beer on the bus on the way home from work in Germany, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

You can have a pint at lunch in the UK, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

I've never heard of a Frenchman or an Italian or a Spaniard having a few glasses of wine with dinner, though. Everyone knows the Irish invented wine, with our sunny climate and great vinyards.

poundapunnet

emmabrighton wrote: »

Well, that's one type of problem drinker... other people recognise they have a problem...

But what about the ones who don't even know they are or other people don't think it is because the level of alcohol consumption is normalised?

I bet there are loads of us that drink a couple of glasses of wine with dinner every night and maybe go out once or twice a month... we probably would say thats normal drinking, thats ok... but in another culture you would be considered an alcoholic for doing that...

I was talking to American friends of mine about this, and they said it's not so much that Irish people drink that much more, it's just that drinking and drunkenness is not a taboo subject and we're much more upfront about that. Americans (they said) would downplay how much they drank whereas we openly admit to it and even see it as a badge of pride.

When I was in college a standard night would be four cans before I went out and then a few more pints or shorts. Or staying in and splitting a litre of vodka between two people. And that'd be an average four or five times a week over most of four years, god knows what damage I did, and I wasn't a massively heavy drinker in comparison to my peers.

emmabrighton

Turpentine wrote: »

You could drink a can of beer on the bus on the way home from work in Germany, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

So are you saying if all you drink is one can of beer on the way home that in Ireland that makes you an alcoholic? I disagree.

Turpentine wrote: »

You can have a pint at lunch in the UK, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

If all you are drinking is a pint at lunch and it is under or equal to the RDA, why would you worry what other people think.

Turpentine wrote: »

I've never heard of a Frenchman or an Italian or a Spaniard having a few glasses of wine with dinner, though. Everyone knows the Irish invented wine, with our sunny climate and great vinyards.

What? That makes no sense...I can't even work out what your point is on this one...

Are you saying that you think that there are French, Italians and Spanish who drink over the recommended daily amount also? I am sure there are. And that if they do drink over the recommended daily amount then that means drinking over the recommended daily amount is ok? What?

Or are you saying that I think that Irish people invented wine????

Sorry, it is hard to respond when your point is unclear...

Anyway my point wasn't about perception, it was about drinking within the recommended limits so that you do not do damage to your liver and that there are probably loads of people out there that are drinking more than that amount and 1) don't know they are doing themselves damage and 2) other people don't realise they are doing damage because thats the way everyone drinks...

Smidge

moxin wrote: »

The problem is not excess drinking over a weekend(as it has a recovery period of at least 5 days during the week), the problem is excess drinking nearly every day over several years. That's how one gets liver disease.

I think a lot of people think like this.
"Ah sure I'll be on the lash at the weekend, have a mad one. I'll be grand as I have a few days after to recover"


Excessive aka Binge drinking can have in some cases much worse consequences than mild/moderate daily intake of alcohol.
But because binge drinking has become so much a part of today's culture especially with late teen's/20 somethings(and I'm not anti-alcohol or teetotal, I do drink but in moderation and never more than my "quota" ie I know how many drinks I can have on a night out and don't go past that regardless, never feel pressured into doing shots at the bar regardless of the jibes of "spoilsport" etc)

I think for anyone who thinks they are allowing their liver to heal after a weekend "sesh" should read this link. It makes for a thought provoking read imho

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative-hypnotic_withdrawal)

Here's an excerpt

Binge drinkers and alcoholics with multiple detoxifications have impairments in executive control tasks sensitive to dysfunction of prefrontal cortex. Animal studies show that repeated withdrawals are associated with an inability to learn new information. The mechanims of neurotoxicity and kindling of neurotransmission systems is due to alcohol's acute effects on GABAergic enhancement and NMDA suppression, leading to CNS depression leading to a partial acute tolerance to these effects, followed by a rebound effect, during acute withdrawal due to the partial tolerance that developed. The acute withdrawal/rebound causes the neurotransmission systems to go into a hyper-excitability state; if this hyper-excitability state occurs multiple times, kindling and possible neurotoxicity can occur. There is some evidence that excitotoxicity may also result as a result of repeated withdrawals. Similar to people who have been detoxified multiple times from alcohol, binge drinkers show a higher rate of emotional disturbance.[3]
Binge drinking may induce brain damage due to the repeated cycle of acute intoxication followed by an acute abstinence withdrawal state.[7] Based on animal studies, regular binge drinking in the long-term is thought to be more likely to result in brain damage than chronic (daily) alcoholism. The reason for this is due to the 4 to 5-fold increase in glutamate release which is released during the acute withdrawal state in between binges. In contrast during withdrawal from chronic alcoholism only a 2 to 3 fold increase in glutamate release occurs. The high levels of glutamate release causes a chain reaction in other neurotransmitter systems. The reason that chronic sustained alcoholism is thought by some researchers to be less brain damaging than binge drinking is because tolerance develops to the effects of alcohol and unlike binge drinking repeated periods of acute withdrawal does not occur,[5][6] but there are also many alcoholics who typically drink in binges followed by periods of no drinking.[8] Excessive glutamate release is a known major cause of neuronal cell death. Glutamate causes neurotoxicity due to excitotoxicity and oxidative glutamate toxicity. Evidence from animal studies suggests that some people may be more genetically sensitive to the neurotoxic and brain damage associated with binge drinking regimes. Binge drinking activates microglial cells which leads to the release of inflammatory cytokines and mediators such as tumour necrosis factor, and nitric oxide causing neuroinflamation leading to neuronal destruction.[5][6]

moxin

Smidge wrote: »

I think a lot of people think like this.
"Ah sure I'll be on the lash at the weekend, have a mad one. I'll be grand as I have a few days after to recover"

Excessive aka Binge drinking can have in some cases much worse consequences than mild/moderate daily intake of alcohol.
But because binge drinking has become so much a part of today's culture especially with late teen's/20 somethings(and I'm not anti-alcohol or teetotal, I do drink but in moderation and never more than my "quota" ie I know how many drinks I can have on a night out and don't go past that regardless, never feel pressured into doing shots at the bar regardless of the jibes of "spoilsport" etc)

I think for anyone who thinks they are allowing their liver to heal after a weekend "sesh" should read this link. It makes for a thought provoking read imho

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative-hypnotic_withdrawal)

Here's an excerpt

It doesn't mention liver damage in your link, only memory loss.

Billy86

emmabrighton wrote: »

Probably.

Sort of off the point I was making but how much does 40 cans per day cost? 80? Thats £80 per day... £560 per week? and thats the other thing... clearly on benefits no one could drink that much and hold down a job...

I still get your point, but having checked apparently you can get beer for udner 50c a can in Tesco in England, which would be closer to or possibly even under £140 a week.