35 year old alcoholic mother dying of liver failure

rubadub · 14-01-2014 02:27PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Where did she get the money to drink 40 cans a day?

people seem to have missed the exaggeration. Just like sales with "up to" 99% off.

Ms Pickorer has been drink-dependent for years and at her worst was downing up to 24 cans of lager plus a bottle of perry - pear cider - in the morning, then visiting the pub, then drinking as many as 16 cans when she returned home.

emmabrighton · 14-01-2014 03:17PM

rubadub wrote: »

people seem to have missed the exaggeration. Just like sales with "up to" 99% off.

Wait, what? I am not sure what your point is...

That she didnt actually drink 40 cans per day? She still is dying from Cirrhosis caused by alcohol dependence...

I think the story would be even scarier if she were only drinking 4 cans per day and some days drinking 40.

nibtrix · 14-01-2014 03:44PM

whatdoicare wrote: »

My husband doesn't drink at all after a very scary episode of drink driving when he was young but people who've known him years refuse to accept this and have even switched his lucozade for alcohol in the hopes of getting him going again. I mean, wtf!

If someone did that to me (slipped a vodka in when I ordered a coke or something) I would not be speaking with them again, even though I do drink alcohol. The odd night out I just don't feel like it, or maybe I want to skip a round, and the pressure to "keep up" with the group is insane. It really is very difficult to go out and not drink in Ireland due to peer pressure.

The other problem then is that if I say I don't want a drink people start assuming I'm pregnant, and I get "ah go on, tell us, when are you due?" from all sides! Usually I end up taking a gulp out of the drink of whoever is doing the teasing, quickest way to shut them up!

rubadub · 14-01-2014 03:45PM

emmabrighton wrote: »

Wait, what? I am not sure what your point is...

That she didnt actually drink 40 cans per day?

Yes thats my point, people were confused how she could afford it, and probably doubted if she had the capacity to drink that much. All these people presumably missed the point that it was "up to", bullshit marketing speak, which to me means "ignore everything after this".

ScumLord · 14-01-2014 06:02PM

Carrie Madshaw wrote: »

It's insidious, that's the nature of the beast. It can dramatically change (ruin) your live without you even acknowledging there's a problem.

In my opinion Drink is easily one of the most dangerous drugs out there. I think it's up there with heroin if it gets a hold of you.

the groutch wrote: »

the real question is how she was getting that much booze?
if she was buying it herself, the supermarket/offie staff shouldnt be selling to her in that state.

Some people can function fine even with massive amounts of a drug in their system, their body just adapts to it. They're not perfect but well enough to not be falling all over the place like a normal person would be.

rubadub · 14-01-2014 06:13PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Some people can function fine even with massive amounts of a drug in their system, their body just adapts to it.

This goes for processing calories too. I know many big drinkers , including myself at times, whom alcohol does not really effect weight wise.

The line usually trotted out in TV programs & some online guides is that 3500kcal in excess of your usual amount will lead to 1lb fat gain. And you need to use 3500kcal or eat 3500kal less to lose 1lb of fat.

40 cans at say 200kcal each is 8000kcal, 6000kcal above the daily requirement, so in theory 1.7lb fat gain per day, or 44.7stone per year -and that is accounting for no food at all.

Needless to say this is not the case, its not an exact science for humans.

But chronic heavy drinking can prime certain metabolic processes and, in effect, train the body to waste the seven calories a gram that alcohol ordinarily provides.

For example, weight gain was negligible in alcoholics who were given 2,000 calories of alcohol daily on top of the 2,500 calories from foods they consumed to maintain their weight. But when the same number of additional calories were fed as chocolate, a steady weight gain resulted.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/04/health/why-the-body-may-waste-the-calories-from-alcohol.html

MonaPizza · 14-01-2014 11:18PM

The 40 cans is difficult to fathom. I consider myself to have a tolerance for beer. I would buy maybe 2 four packs of lager on a Saturday and put them on the balcony to cool. I'd then go to the pub to watch the football and suck down maybe 4 or 5 pints. Would then go home about 8pm and crack a can. Usually would get through 4 or 5 of them and would be fairly inebriated. There would usually be 2 or 3 leftover. So that would be the guts of 9 or 10 pints over an 8 or 9 hour period. How someone (especially a female) could put away 4 times that amount is beyond me. Are there even enough hours in the day to do it? I know that hardcore drinkers like Gazza put away maybe 1.5 litres of spirits a day and that's a lot but 40 cans? The sheer volume. That's nearly 5 gallons. If it's true it's awfully sad. She's most likely beyond help.

My name is URL · 14-01-2014 11:33PM

MonaPizza wrote: »

I know that hardcore drinkers like Gazza put away maybe 1.5 litres of spirits a day and that's a lot but 40 cans? The sheer volume. That's nearly 5 gallons. If it's true it's awfully sad. She's most likely beyond help.

Well, she's definitley beyond help at this stage. She only has days left to live. That's the whole point of the article as far as I can see.

She wants to die at home, but the NHS won't allow it because palliative care at home costs too much.

15-01-2014 01:01AM

Really sad story.

I had a bit of a wake-up call myself recently. Was nowhere near as bad as this woman, but had slipped into that habit of having a few drinks practically every other day, and sometimes every day. It's easy to do in London - it's 6pm, Tube is too crowded, let's go for one or two. Watching a movie at home, let's grab a couple of cans. Cooking spaghetti, let's have a nice bottle of red. It's just so easy to end up drinking all the time without really realising you're doing it. I shudder to think how much we've spent on booze over the past few years. I'm not saying I regret it all or that I plan to stop drinking completely, but I definitely want to go back to seeing drinking as a treat - a few Friday night pints or a glass of wine with a meal out.

Galwayguy35 · 15-01-2014 01:34AM

whatdoicare wrote: »

My husband doesn't drink at all after a very scary episode of drink driving when he was young but people who've known him years refuse to accept this and have even switched his lucozade for alcohol in the hopes of getting him going again. I mean, wtf!

Something similar happened to my brother when he was younger, he has never drank alcohol and was lucky not to be killed by a drunk driver years ago.

One when he was in the pub someone put alcohol into his mineral when he wasn't looking.

People are idiots sometimes.

JupiterKid · 15-01-2014 02:25AM

As someone who has personally struggled with alcoholism, I feel sorry for that woman. The image of her dying in a hospital bed and wasting away are truly harrowing.

Alcoholism is a disease. It is progressive, baffling and cunning. Even when all the signs say you are drinking too much, the disease of addiction still proves alluring.

I'm taking things one day at a time. People such as that woman should serve as a warning to everyone what can happen when the disease of alcoholism takes hold. Very sad.

Sam Kade · 15-01-2014 11:42AM

I know a couple that started drinking as teenagers, they are almost 50 now and still go drinking 3 nights a week and drink at home during the week wine and sprits. They don't believe that they have a problem with drink as they refer to themselves as social drinkers. When they go out it's pints for both of them and the wife can keep up with her husband drinking pints, if they don't get enough drink in the pub they will head to the nearest late bar. Every occasion is used as an excuse to drink parties, weddings, funerals etc.

emmabrighton · 15-01-2014 11:47AM

Sam Kade wrote: »

I know a couple that started drinking as teenagers, they are almost 50 now and still go drinking 3 nights a week and drink at home during the week wine and sprits. They don't believe that they have a problem with drink as they refer to themselves as social drinkers. When they go out it's pints for both of them and the wife can keep up with her husband drinking pints, if they don't get enough drink in the pub they will head to the nearest late bar. Every occasion is used as an excuse to drink parties, weddings, funerals etc.

Well, that's one type of problem drinker... other people recognise they have a problem...

But what about the ones who don't even know they are or other people don't think it is because the level of alcohol consumption is normalised?

I bet there are loads of us that drink a couple of glasses of wine with dinner every night and maybe go out once or twice a month... we probably would say thats normal drinking, thats ok... but in another culture you would be considered an alcoholic for doing that...

Sunglasses Ron · 15-01-2014 12:36PM

I still can't work out where the money to fund this comes from, isn't the UK dole about 60 pound per week? Just about enough to eat. She hardly still gets child benefit, and does the government actually give young people disabled by drink the funds to buy more of it?

Even at 50p a can (which can be got in the UK), and maybe assuming all her food is from charity, that is still only about 120 cans, under 20 per day. I can't fathom this forty figure being affordable on that money.

Turpentine · 15-01-2014 01:23PM

emmabrighton wrote: »

Well, that's one type of problem drinker... other people recognise they have a problem...

But what about the ones who don't even know they are or other people don't think it is because the level of alcohol consumption is normalised?

I bet there are loads of us that drink a couple of glasses of wine with dinner every night and maybe go out once or twice a month... we probably would say thats normal drinking, thats ok... but in another culture you would be considered an alcoholic for doing that...

You could drink a can of beer on the bus on the way home from work in Germany, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

You can have a pint at lunch in the UK, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

I've never heard of a Frenchman or an Italian or a Spaniard having a few glasses of wine with dinner, though. Everyone knows the Irish invented wine, with our sunny climate and great vinyards.

poundapunnet · 15-01-2014 01:43PM

emmabrighton wrote: »

Well, that's one type of problem drinker... other people recognise they have a problem...

But what about the ones who don't even know they are or other people don't think it is because the level of alcohol consumption is normalised?

I bet there are loads of us that drink a couple of glasses of wine with dinner every night and maybe go out once or twice a month... we probably would say thats normal drinking, thats ok... but in another culture you would be considered an alcoholic for doing that...

I was talking to American friends of mine about this, and they said it's not so much that Irish people drink that much more, it's just that drinking and drunkenness is not a taboo subject and we're much more upfront about that. Americans (they said) would downplay how much they drank whereas we openly admit to it and even see it as a badge of pride.

When I was in college a standard night would be four cans before I went out and then a few more pints or shorts. Or staying in and splitting a litre of vodka between two people. And that'd be an average four or five times a week over most of four years, god knows what damage I did, and I wasn't a massively heavy drinker in comparison to my peers.

emmabrighton · 15-01-2014 02:03PM

Turpentine wrote: »

You could drink a can of beer on the bus on the way home from work in Germany, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

So are you saying if all you drink is one can of beer on the way home that in Ireland that makes you an alcoholic? I disagree.

Turpentine wrote: »

You can have a pint at lunch in the UK, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

If all you are drinking is a pint at lunch and it is under or equal to the RDA, why would you worry what other people think.

Turpentine wrote: »

I've never heard of a Frenchman or an Italian or a Spaniard having a few glasses of wine with dinner, though. Everyone knows the Irish invented wine, with our sunny climate and great vinyards.

What? That makes no sense...I can't even work out what your point is on this one...

Are you saying that you think that there are French, Italians and Spanish who drink over the recommended daily amount also? I am sure there are. And that if they do drink over the recommended daily amount then that means drinking over the recommended daily amount is ok? What?

Or are you saying that I think that Irish people invented wine????

Sorry, it is hard to respond when your point is unclear...

Anyway my point wasn't about perception, it was about drinking within the recommended limits so that you do not do damage to your liver and that there are probably loads of people out there that are drinking more than that amount and 1) don't know they are doing themselves damage and 2) other people don't realise they are doing damage because thats the way everyone drinks...

Smidge · 18-01-2014 02:02AM

moxin wrote: »

The problem is not excess drinking over a weekend(as it has a recovery period of at least 5 days during the week), the problem is excess drinking nearly every day over several years. That's how one gets liver disease.

I think a lot of people think like this.
"Ah sure I'll be on the lash at the weekend, have a mad one. I'll be grand as I have a few days after to recover"

Excessive aka Binge drinking can have in some cases much worse consequences than mild/moderate daily intake of alcohol.
But because binge drinking has become so much a part of today's culture especially with late teen's/20 somethings(and I'm not anti-alcohol or teetotal, I do drink but in moderation and never more than my "quota" ie I know how many drinks I can have on a night out and don't go past that regardless, never feel pressured into doing shots at the bar regardless of the jibes of "spoilsport" etc)

I think for anyone who thinks they are allowing their liver to heal after a weekend "sesh" should read this link. It makes for a thought provoking read imho

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative-hypnotic_withdrawal)

Here's an excerpt

Binge drinkers and alcoholics with multiple detoxifications have impairments in executive control tasks sensitive to dysfunction of prefrontal cortex. Animal studies show that repeated withdrawals are associated with an inability to learn new information. The mechanims of neurotoxicity and kindling of neurotransmission systems is due to alcohol's acute effects on GABAergic enhancement and NMDA suppression, leading to CNS depression leading to a partial acute tolerance to these effects, followed by a rebound effect, during acute withdrawal due to the partial tolerance that developed. The acute withdrawal/rebound causes the neurotransmission systems to go into a hyper-excitability state; if this hyper-excitability state occurs multiple times, kindling and possible neurotoxicity can occur. There is some evidence that excitotoxicity may also result as a result of repeated withdrawals. Similar to people who have been detoxified multiple times from alcohol, binge drinkers show a higher rate of emotional disturbance.[3]
Binge drinking may induce brain damage due to the repeated cycle of acute intoxication followed by an acute abstinence withdrawal state.[7] Based on animal studies, regular binge drinking in the long-term is thought to be more likely to result in brain damage than chronic (daily) alcoholism. The reason for this is due to the 4 to 5-fold increase in glutamate release which is released during the acute withdrawal state in between binges. In contrast during withdrawal from chronic alcoholism only a 2 to 3 fold increase in glutamate release occurs. The high levels of glutamate release causes a chain reaction in other neurotransmitter systems. The reason that chronic sustained alcoholism is thought by some researchers to be less brain damaging than binge drinking is because tolerance develops to the effects of alcohol and unlike binge drinking repeated periods of acute withdrawal does not occur,[5][6] but there are also many alcoholics who typically drink in binges followed by periods of no drinking.[8] Excessive glutamate release is a known major cause of neuronal cell death. Glutamate causes neurotoxicity due to excitotoxicity and oxidative glutamate toxicity. Evidence from animal studies suggests that some people may be more genetically sensitive to the neurotoxic and brain damage associated with binge drinking regimes. Binge drinking activates microglial cells which leads to the release of inflammatory cytokines and mediators such as tumour necrosis factor, and nitric oxide causing neuroinflamation leading to neuronal destruction.[5][6]

moxin · 18-01-2014 12:57PM

Smidge wrote: »

I think a lot of people think like this.
"Ah sure I'll be on the lash at the weekend, have a mad one. I'll be grand as I have a few days after to recover"

Excessive aka Binge drinking can have in some cases much worse consequences than mild/moderate daily intake of alcohol.
But because binge drinking has become so much a part of today's culture especially with late teen's/20 somethings(and I'm not anti-alcohol or teetotal, I do drink but in moderation and never more than my "quota" ie I know how many drinks I can have on a night out and don't go past that regardless, never feel pressured into doing shots at the bar regardless of the jibes of "spoilsport" etc)

I think for anyone who thinks they are allowing their liver to heal after a weekend "sesh" should read this link. It makes for a thought provoking read imho

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative-hypnotic_withdrawal)

Here's an excerpt

It doesn't mention liver damage in your link, only memory loss.

Billy86 · 18-01-2014 01:28PM

emmabrighton wrote: »

Probably.

Sort of off the point I was making but how much does 40 cans per day cost? 80? Thats £80 per day... £560 per week? and thats the other thing... clearly on benefits no one could drink that much and hold down a job...

I still get your point, but having checked apparently you can get beer for udner 50c a can in Tesco in England, which would be closer to or possibly even under £140 a week.

Sunnyisland · 18-01-2014 01:53PM

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I still can't work out where the money to fund this comes from, isn't the UK dole about 60 pound per week? Just about enough to eat. She hardly still gets child benefit, and does the government actually give young people disabled by drink the funds to buy more of it?

Even at 50p a can (which can be got in the UK), and maybe assuming all her food is from charity, that is still only about 120 cans, under 20 per day. I can't fathom this forty figure being affordable on that money.

rubadub wrote: »

Yes thats my point, people were confused how she could afford it, and probably doubted if she had the capacity to drink that much. All these people presumably missed the point that it was "up to", bullshit marketing speak, which to me means "ignore everything after this".

Hope that explains :-)

Courtesy Flush · 21-01-2014 09:35PM

40 cans a day is a massive amount of alcohol. It said "up to 40" but even 20, 30 cans is huge. So the woman was drunk 24/7 probably for years. Its a sad story. Unless someone wants to sort themselves out there is not much that can be done

The RDA amounts as far as I know arent based on any real scientific evidence, just recomendations.
A new study has suggested that people who drink alcohol live longer than people who are teetotal

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/people-who-drink-alcohol-outlive-those-who-abstain-study-shows-8995879.html

c_man · 21-01-2014 09:44PM

Turpentine wrote: »

You could drink a can of beer on the bus on the way home from work in Germany, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

You can have a pint at lunch in the UK, but try that in Ireland and you'd be labelled an alcoholic.

I've never heard of a Frenchman or an Italian or a Spaniard having a few glasses of wine with dinner, though. Everyone knows the Irish invented wine, with our sunny climate and great vinyards.

And alcohol consumption is down nearly 20% in Ireland from 2001. But mention that at your peril, sure aren't we the only drinkers in the world etc. etc. You'd never see the Germans having a huge celebration around beer. Never.

donegal__road · 21-01-2014 10:54PM

the Russians have found the cure for cirrhosis

http://voiceofrussia.com/2011/09/01/55511779/

The article was from 2011 and states that the drug will become available in 5 years.

Courtesy Flush · 21-01-2014 11:07PM

c_man wrote: »

And alcohol consumption is down nearly 20% in Ireland from 2001. But mention that at your peril, sure aren't we the only drinkers in the world etc. etc. You'd never see the Germans having a huge celebration around beer. Never.

I think our problem is the binge element. On the continent they just dont have the 'race to get drunk as fast as possible' evident in Irish and British town centers every weekend

Sunnyisland · 21-01-2014 11:24PM

c_man wrote: »

And alcohol consumption is down nearly 20% in Ireland from 2001. But mention that at your peril, sure aren't we the only drinkers in the world etc. etc. You'd never see the Germans having a huge celebration around beer. Never.

What do you mean mention that statistic at your peril ?

Here is a link from drink aware about alcohol consumption up to 2012,

Irish adults binge drink more than adults in any other European country, with one quarter reporting that they binge drink every week

How much are we really drinking?
Over half of all Irish drinkers have a harmful pattern of drinking, that’s 4 in 10 women and 7 in 10 men who drink, which amounts to an estimated 1,453,250 adults
In 2012, the average Irish person aged 15+ drank 11.68 litres of pure alcohol
When we consider the fact that one in five adults in Ireland don’t drink alcohol, it means that those who do drink are consuming much more than the average consumption statistics show
The European average for annual alcohol consumption is 10.7 litres
If every adult aged 15+ in Ireland drank to the maximum low-risk weekly limit every week, average consumption for the year would be 9.2 litres
Average alcohol consumption in 2010 was 145% higher than the average amount consumed in 1960
Alcohol consumption in Ireland increased by 46% between 1987 (9.8 litres) and 2001 (14.3 litres) when our consumption reached a record high
Ireland continues to rank among the highest consumers of alcohol in the 26 countries in the enlarged EU.
From 1980 to 2010, average alcohol consumption in Europe decreased by an average of 15 per cent, while consumption in Ireland over that period increased by 24 per cent
Irish adults binge drink more than adults in any other European country, with 44 per cent of drinkers stating that they binge drink on a regular basis
The highest proportion of binge drinkers is in the 18-29 age group. Young people are also more likely to exceed the weekly low-risk limit for alcohol consumption

To see how much alcohol (and how many calories) you consume on an average night out, try the drinks calculator on DrinkHelp.ie

http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/how-much-do-we-drink/

35 year old alcoholic mother dying of liver failure

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