Irelands War Dead

losthorizon

It was just put online in the last few days and its being discussed on other forums on boards but maybe AHers might like to discuss it as well.

Whats really interesting is the amount of people who actually died not just from the larger towns but from all over the place.

As someone from Cork I find it incredible that much more people died in WW1 from Cork than from Belfast. We have an upside down view of history. Sometimes looking at a small town like Bantry or Mallow gives shocking results.

http://imr.inflandersfields.be/search.html

Over 8,000 people from Dublin died? That's kinda crazy.

Santa Cruz

losthorizon wrote: »

It was just put online in the last few days and its being discussed on other forums on boards but maybe AHers might like to discuss it as well.

Whats really interesting is the amount of people who actually died not just from the larger towns but from all over the place.

As someone from Cork I find it incredible that much more people died in WW1 from Cork than from Belfast. We have an upside down view of history. Sometimes looking at a small town like Bantry or Mallow gives shocking results.

http://imr.inflandersfields.be/search.html[/QUOTE]

For a lot of people joining the army was one way to get a job. Between the Boer War and WW1 the British were not involved in any significant military action. Towns like Mallow Fermoy Athlone that had military barracks attracted a high number of recruits because of the tradition of joining up.

Certain people lacking a knowledge of social history will want to play the Shinner card and condemn these people but at that time enlisting was seen as a career choice for many especially in the absence of other employment

Lapin

Its great to see them being remembered on this website for all time.

R.I.P. to Ireland's brave war dead.

GideonMcGrane

Deleted User wrote: »

Over 8,000 people from Dublin died? That's kinda crazy.

Sadly they died in the wrong cause.

spank_inferno

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

Sadly they died in the wrong cause.

Would you prefer they die for another cause or not die at all?

wazky

spank_inferno wrote: »

Would you prefer they die for another cause or not die at all?

Well it's fairly certain they were going to die at some stage.

Hello_MrFox

They knew what they were signing up for, dying is part of the job for some - even if it is tragic.

GideonMcGrane

spank_inferno wrote: »

Would you prefer they die for another cause or not die at all?

Odd question.

If they had to die for something it should have been for a good cause, like the freedom of their own country.

kneemos

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

Odd question.

If they had to die for something it should have been for a good cause, like the freedom of their own country.

It was for the freedom of their own country?

GideonMcGrane

Hello_MrFox wrote: »

They knew what they were signing up for, dying is part of the job for some - even if it is tragic.

Killing was also pat of their job, its funny that they dont tell you how many they killed and maimed.

When you dont like an army you constantly reiterate how many they killed, when you support them you constantly reiterate how many of them died. Its a bit of a con really.

feargale

spank_inferno wrote: »

Would you prefer they die for another cause or not die at all?

Not die at all.

kneemos

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

Killing was also pat of their job, its funny that they dont tell you how many they killed and maimed.

When you dont like an army you constantly reiterate how many they killed, when you support them you constantly reiterate how many of them died. Its a bit of a con really.

Not really.It's usually the aggressor that are the anti hero's

Standard Toaster

Just did a few searches there, all came back with 3 or more names. 49,000 approx in all...

No doubt about it, this is back when men were men. Men are just pussys now.

RIP

losthorizon

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

Odd question.

If they had to die for something it should have been for a good cause, like the freedom of their own country.

Well, many had joined up to get Home rule.

Funnily enough I have just finished reading a book about WW1. The amount the French lost was truly shocking. When you read about the casualties and the conditions you understand why the Germans overran them so easily in WW2 (lthough they still held out two weeks after Dunkirk).

poundapunnet

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

Odd question.

If they had to die for something it should have been for a good cause, like the freedom of their own country.

Oh for god's sake. Get over it.

MonsterCookie

poundapunnet wrote: »

Oh for god's sake. Get over it.

+10
I'm actually quite proud of the sacrifices made by our own war heroes and it's great to see them being remembered in this way.

For me, it reflects just how important Ireland and Britain are to each other, and how rich a history we share.

feargale

What were the causes of WWI?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

Odd question.

If they had to die for something it should have been for a good cause, like the freedom of their own country.

As someone whose uncle was among the dead, I can assure you that there was little or no talk of a struggle for Irish freedom in 1914. Far from it in fact. To these men
WW1 was a good cause. Please do not besmirch their memory with your flawed hindsight.

WoollyRedHat

Any good books on the subject?

Sunnyisland

RIP to them all, many went of never to return.

Inquitus

If you search Dublin it pulls in all the English from the Royal Dublin Fusileers, if you search for Ireland (place of birth) you only get @1600

LordSutch

MonsterCookie wrote: »

+10
I'm actually quite proud of the sacrifices made by our own war heroes and it's great to see them being remembered in this way.

For me, it reflects just how important Ireland and Britain are to each other, and how rich a history we share.

Nice to seen another poster who thinks the sme way I do. Sadly not too many of us around on After hours though.

Regarding the shocking figure of 49.000 Irish dead, I always think of the Aviva stadium on Lansdowne Road filled to capicity = that's how many Irish soldiers died in the Great War. Shocking & very sobering when you really think about the numbers.

http://cdn.actionrecon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/remembrance-day-flanders-fields-afp.jpg

Alias G

poundapunnet wrote: »

Oh for god's sake. Get over it.

Simply because someone holds an alternative view to you, doesn't mean they need to get over anything. While it is worthwhile remembering the sacrifices if these men made, they were ultimately pawns to the imperial powers. There was no right or wrong side in wwi. It was an inevitable consequence of foreign relations of the time.

Sunnyisland

It's not just the men & women of the WW that should be remembered.

Fusiliers' Arch is a monument which forms part of the Grafton Street entrance to St Stephen's Green park, in Dublin, Ireland. Erected in 1907, it was dedicated to the officers, non-commissioned officers and enlisted men of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers who fought and died in the Second Boer War (1899-1902).

feargale

realies wrote: »

RIP to them all, many went of never to return.

Yes, RIP to them all, including my grandfather who survived service in France in WWI to die in old age. Now, once again please, what were the causes of WWI?

GoldenLight

For a lot of people joining the army was one way to get a job. Between the Boer War and WW1 the British were not involved in any significant military action. Towns like Mallow Fermoy Athlone that had military barracks attracted a high number of recruits because of the tradition of joining up.

Certain people lacking a knowledge of social history will want to play the Shinner card and condemn these people but at that time enlisting was seen as a career choice for many especially in the absence of other employment

Also a lot of people joined for adventure and to see the world, the youth of 1910's had the same hopes and dreams as the youth of today. My Grandfather joined up at 16 in 1912 and thankfully left in 1920, to join the Irish army until 1967. I know the reason he joined, as did his brothers was for a job, adventure and to see the world. I prity sure he wasn't happy with the world he saw though.

RIP to does lost, as during WWI the Irish (as well as the Welsh and Scotish, and any other country owned by the empire) where considered mainly cannon fodder, as was consider the norm up to that point. There is a reason it is called "WWI" or "the great war" and they aren't generally positive reasons.

poundapunnet

Alias G wrote: »

Simply because someone holds an alternative view to you, doesn't mean they need to get over anything. While it is worthwhile remembering the sacrifices if these men made, they were ultimately pawns to the imperial powers. There was no right or wrong side in wwi. It was an inevitable consequence of foreign relations of the time.

A thread to point out how many Irish people died in the first world war, and they have to bring up "They died for the wrong reason, I wish they'd died achieving something that was achieved anyway less than ten years later, which was long before I was even born".


If this was a thread about the history of the war of Independence I wouldn't give out to someone for holding an opposing view, but shoehorning it into this thread? Yes, they need to get over it.

And I agree with your comments about ww1, that's got nothing to do with it.

Sunnyisland

feargale wrote: »

Yes, RIP to them all, including my grandfather who survived service in France in WWI to die in old age. Now, once again please, what were the causes of WWI?

Can you not google it yourself or start your own thread on the reasons why WW1 started, This thread is about Irishmen & women who died and have for to long been forgotten by everyone.well most.

Lapin

feargale wrote: »

What were the causes of WWI?

There were many, but principally they were the quest by the major European powers in their desire to extend their empires.

The rise of Nationalism in the early 20th century.

British and French concern over the rapid rise of the German military (especially her navy) since reunification.

The opportunity for the ailing Austria / Hungarian Empire to reassert its dominance by compelling Serbia to an ultimatum of surrender following the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo. This was the immediate cause. The others are some of the origins in the build up to the outbreak.

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Any good books on the subject?

On the war in general or the involvement of Irishmen and women?

wendell borton

Hello_MrFox wrote: »

They knew what they were signing up for, dying is part of the job for some - even if it is tragic.

I don't think most didn't know what they they were signing up for. WW 1 was a war unlike anything that came before then .

wendell borton

realies wrote: »

It's not just the men & women of the WW that should be remembered.

Fusiliers' Arch is a monument which forms part of the Grafton Street entrance to St Stephen's Green park, in Dublin, Ireland. Erected in 1907, it was dedicated to the officers, non-commissioned officers and enlisted men of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers who fought and died in the Second Boer War (1899-1902).

The two Irish commando units who fought with distinction in the boer cause should be remembered as well.

WoollyRedHat

Lapin wrote: »

There were many, but principally they were the quest by the major European powers in their desire to extend their empires.

The rise of Nationalism in the early 20th century.

British and French concern over the rapid rise of the German military (especially her navy) since reunification.

The opportunity for the ailing Austria / Hungarian Empire to reassert its dominance by compelling Serbia to an ultimatum of surrender following the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo. This was the immediate cause. The others are some of the origins in the build up to the outbreak.



On the war in general or the involvement of Irishmen and women?

The involvement of Irishmen and women.

GideonMcGrane

Addisyn Square Babyhood wrote: »

As someone whose uncle was among the dead, I can assure you that there was little or no talk of a struggle for Irish freedom in 1914. Far from it in fact. To these men
WW1 was a good cause. Please do not besmirch their memory with your flawed hindsight.

The Irish Volunteers were formed in 1913. :rolleyes:

WoollyRedHat

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

The Irish Volunteers were formed in 1913. :rolleyes:

Actually, you could go back further to the 18th century, where they existed
in another form as local militias to keep the French and Spanish at bay. Funnily enough, they managed to get power handed over to the Dublin parliament by the British while they were preoccupied by a revolution, in America

I find our shared history with France and America in this regard is fascinating, but that's another thread.

GideonMcGrane

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Actually, you could go back further to the 18th century, where they existed as local militias to keep the French and Spanish at bay. Funnily enough, they managed to get power handed over to the Dublin parliament by the British while they were preoccupied by a revolution, in America

I find our shared history with France and America in this regard is fascinating, but that's another thread.

There's no real connection between the two.

Someone said there were no thoughts of Irish freedom in 1914 which is nonsense. In fact many of those who went to kill and die for British imperialism were originally Irish Volunteers.

WoollyRedHat

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

There's no real connection between the two.

Someone said there were no thoughts of Irish freedom in 1914 which is nonsense. In fact many of those who went to kill and die for British imperialism were originally Irish Volunteers.

Both dying for nationalism.. or the idea of nationalism.

Lapin

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

The involvement of Irishmen and women.

I could have sworn Kevin Myers had something but a search through his many articles on the subject is well worth the effort.

More material here.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

The Irish Volunteers were formed in 1913. :rolleyes:

Yes, and what was the opinion of the general populus towards them at the time?????? Also what were their stated aims?


I'll let you read up on that for yourself as it too long and off topic for this thread.


AND, from a history of the Irish volunteers --, At the start of World War I, over 90% joined the National Volunteers and enlisted in the 10th and 16th (Irish) Divisions of the British Army,leaving the Irish Volunteers........

Alias G

poundapunnet wrote: »

A thread to point out how many Irish people died in the first world war, and they have to bring up "They died for the wrong reason, I wish they'd died achieving something that was achieved anyway less than ten years later, which was long before I was even born".


If this was a thread about the history of the war of Independence I wouldn't give out to someone for holding an opposing view, but shoehorning it into this thread? Yes, they need to get over it.

And I agree with your comments about ww1, that's got nothing to do with it.

This thread laments the loss and sacrifice of 49000 lives. The previous poster was merely lamenting that loss from a different perspective. There is no need to shoot them down for it. Those who died came from every political hue.

wexandproud

have become interested in reading about the trenches lately and have read a few books based on soldiers diaries. there are a few mentions of the Irish Catholics and the Irish in general and they were held in high regard by their comrades and their was never any animosity amongst the troops. For whatever reason they joined up , let it be adventure , an income or even the promise of freedom , they thought they were right to go , and should not be forgotten

may the green sod of Flanders or the Somme rest lightly on their shoulders

Rovi

Myles Dungan has written a couple of books on the subject:
They Shall Grow Not Old: Irish Soldiers and the Great War
Irish Voices from the Great War

Dyr

MonsterCookie wrote: »

+10
I'm actually quite proud of the sacrifices made by our own war heroes and it's great to see them being remembered in this way.

For me, it reflects just how important Ireland and Britain are to each other, and how rich a history we share.

It's always worth a giggle to see people who are punting commemoration telling others to "get over it"

Maybe you should get over it too then

MonsterCookie

Bambi wrote: »

It's always worth a giggle to see people who are punting commemoration telling others to "get over it"

Maybe you should get over it too then

That's your contribution to the thread?

WoollyRedHat

It also offered opportunities to women, the importance to women in terms of widening labour opportunities cannot be understated and this was the case for British and Americans also.

wazky

MonsterCookie wrote: »

That's your contribution to the thread?

What's yours?, bar berating other posters views.

Dyr

MonsterCookie wrote: »

That's your contribution to the thread?

Pointing out the utter hypocrisy of your position is contribution enough I think.

LordSutch

Bambi wrote: »

It's always worth a giggle to see people who are punting commemoration telling others to "get over it"

Maybe you should get over it too then

I think we'll allget over it (as you put it) after 2018 and the and the commemoration of the Armistice. Next year of course is the commemoration of the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of the Great War, with all the terrible loss of life that ensued up until the 11th of November 1918 when the Armistice was announced. 200.000 Irish men joined up for WWI, and 49.000 of them lost their lives.

RIP to all of them I say.

MonsterCookie

Bambi wrote: »

Pointing out the utter hypocrisy of your position is contribution enough I think.

By telling me to get over it in a thread about Ireland's war dead? Hilarious.

I still don't know what your position is on this, aside from giggling at mine:cool:

baldbear

22 men died from my parish. A small town in Longford. I suppose back then with no work young men saw it as a way to earn a few bob and see the world. "It would be over by Christmas" they thought. A waste and a war that stupid politicians failed the ordinary people. Nothing changes.

My great grand uncle fought at the Somme and was left in a wheelchair. He lived out his days with the grandparents and was buried with them. The grand father was involved in the war of independence so It makes me happy that they lived together happy and with no ill feeling.

GoldenLight

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

There's no real connection between the two.

Someone said there were no thoughts of Irish freedom in 1914 which is nonsense. In fact many of those who went to kill and die for British imperialism were originally Irish Volunteers.

They did but alot of them where also felt like nothing was happening on that front, all you have to do is read how the Irish actually felt about the 1916 Rising, most Irish people thought of it at the time of it annoying and effecting their day to day business, and did nothing for independence. It wasn't until the Irish saw how the British would deal with Irish people, that went up against them, did the general Irish person seem to understand. You also rightly pointed out a lot of Irish people where off fighting in WWI, of does that came back Michael Collins used to his advantage, they knew how the British Army worked, and became part of Michael Collins "intelligents network".

So from 1918, we had a influx of people, who had heard about the 1916 raising, and in hindsight would loved to be fighting for their country, but couldn't because at the moment they signed up 1914 nothing major was happening in this country, people in general where happy to get on with it. It's all well and good to have romantic notions about 1916, (and believe me I still do) but it is wrong for us to say that anyone who joined then to fight in WWI was any less proud of their country. Most who sign up where the very same as people to day, they where young needed work, wanted adventure, and thought they where fighting the evil of the day. (As they say hindsight is a wonderful thing)

PS My grandfather came back in 1920 from the British Army and was recruited by Micheal Collins as a intelligent agent, his rank was Staff Sargant (of Dublin Castle during the civil war) in the Irish Army. He was a Private in the British Army, where he survived as in Royal Irish Fusiliers, thankfully his battalion went to Galipolie and the middle east, rather than Flanders, where most Royal Irish Fusiliers lost there lives (80% I believe). He had some amazing stories, not about war, but live experiences, he never talked about taking another human life. Not because he may never have do it, but because I don't believe
he would believe it was a positive human experience, I honestly believe he, had no problem in taking a human life, if it meant his survival or if his ideal was threatened. It is actually quite scary to think about, didn't know him that well but what my older cousins mention about the man, it was creepy in the sense.

God I glad I related to him, he would never hurt family. :eek: