Irelands War Dead

Lapin wrote: »

There were many, but principally they were the quest by the major European powers in their desire to extend their empires.

The rise of Nationalism in the early 20th century.

British and French concern over the rapid rise of the German military (especially her navy) since reunification.

The opportunity for the ailing Austria / Hungarian Empire to reassert its dominance by compelling Serbia to an ultimatum of surrender following the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand in Sarajevo. This was the immediate cause. The others are some of the origins in the build up to the outbreak.



On the war in general or the involvement of Irishmen and women?

The involvement of Irishmen and women.

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

The Irish Volunteers were formed in 1913. :rolleyes:

Actually, you could go back further to the 18th century, where they existed
in another form as local militias to keep the French and Spanish at bay. Funnily enough, they managed to get power handed over to the Dublin parliament by the British while they were preoccupied by a revolution, in America

I find our shared history with France and America in this regard is fascinating, but that's another thread.

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

There's no real connection between the two.

Someone said there were no thoughts of Irish freedom in 1914 which is nonsense. In fact many of those who went to kill and die for British imperialism were originally Irish Volunteers.

Both dying for nationalism.. or the idea of nationalism.

have become interested in reading about the trenches lately and have read a few books based on soldiers diaries. there are a few mentions of the Irish Catholics and the Irish in general and they were held in high regard by their comrades and their was never any animosity amongst the troops. For whatever reason they joined up , let it be adventure , an income or even the promise of freedom , they thought they were right to go , and should not be forgotten

may the green sod of Flanders or the Somme rest lightly on their shoulders

It also offered opportunities to women, the importance to women in terms of widening labour opportunities cannot be understated and this was the case for British and Americans also.

Bambi wrote: »

Pointing out the utter hypocrisy of your position is contribution enough I think.

By telling me to get over it in a thread about Ireland's war dead? Hilarious.

I still don't know what your position is on this, aside from giggling at mine:cool:

GideonMcGrane wrote: »

There's no real connection between the two.

Someone said there were no thoughts of Irish freedom in 1914 which is nonsense. In fact many of those who went to kill and die for British imperialism were originally Irish Volunteers.

They did but alot of them where also felt like nothing was happening on that front, all you have to do is read how the Irish actually felt about the 1916 Rising, most Irish people thought of it at the time of it annoying and effecting their day to day business, and did nothing for independence. It wasn't until the Irish saw how the British would deal with Irish people, that went up against them, did the general Irish person seem to understand. You also rightly pointed out a lot of Irish people where off fighting in WWI, of does that came back Michael Collins used to his advantage, they knew how the British Army worked, and became part of Michael Collins "intelligents network".

So from 1918, we had a influx of people, who had heard about the 1916 raising, and in hindsight would loved to be fighting for their country, but couldn't because at the moment they signed up 1914 nothing major was happening in this country, people in general where happy to get on with it. It's all well and good to have romantic notions about 1916, (and believe me I still do) but it is wrong for us to say that anyone who joined then to fight in WWI was any less proud of their country. Most who sign up where the very same as people to day, they where young needed work, wanted adventure, and thought they where fighting the evil of the day. (As they say hindsight is a wonderful thing)

PS My grandfather came back in 1920 from the British Army and was recruited by Micheal Collins as a intelligent agent, his rank was Staff Sargant (of Dublin Castle during the civil war) in the Irish Army. He was a Private in the British Army, where he survived as in Royal Irish Fusiliers, thankfully his battalion went to Galipolie and the middle east, rather than Flanders, where most Royal Irish Fusiliers lost there lives (80% I believe). He had some amazing stories, not about war, but live experiences, he never talked about taking another human life. Not because he may never have do it, but because I don't believe
he would believe it was a positive human experience, I honestly believe he, had no problem in taking a human life, if it meant his survival or if his ideal was threatened. It is actually quite scary to think about, didn't know him that well but what my older cousins mention about the man, it was creepy in the sense.

God I glad I related to him, he would never hurt family. :eek:

Bambi wrote: »

Whats my position on you telling people to get over something while harping on about commemorating the same thing?

My position is that it makes you look ludicrous

Irony? Hypocrisy? Kettle? Black? Pot? You're having a right laugh now!

losthorizon wrote: »

Gallipoli was appalling by all accounts. In a war that was terrible it was one of the worst places to end up in. At one stage the British and Australians could have taken the peninsula but bedded down which allowed the Turks to bring in all their troops and carnage resulted. You should get that book I mentioned as Gallipoli is described in full. Its a big thing in Australia as well as a load of Aussies were invovled. Theres also a famous film

Oh don't get me wrong, it was a horrific battle, it just goes to show the extent, or how lucky my grandfather was, 1 battalion of the Royal Irish fusiliers, where sent there, the other eight where wiped out in Flanders, (only reason I think it was 8 because he was in the ninth). WWI was horrific and no one expected it at all, up to that point most people believed there was honour in battle (there isn't) but a 16 year old lad would have believed that, he would also believe adventure and seeing the world. (most armies, navies, airforces ) advertise that up until 1987 (at my granddads age yep I almost wanted to do it) back then I considered it.

My Grandfather was at that time thought how to become a man. My Grandfather was trying so hard to proof himself, he ended up putting himself in a world of trouble. (Hence why I say Hindsight isn't it wonderful, he didn't have, I don't have it and neither does anyone else.)

He managed to survive, if he didn't I won't be here or his 12 children and my 56 cousins, and this discussion wouldn't be happening with out me, although I believe it would happen still, part of me believes I'm important to it.