Landlord blaming us for dampness

Ray Palmer

MicktheMan wrote: »

What happens when you open a window in a warm room to the cold outside is the cold air comes in and the warm air goes out. While the cold air will obviously have some moisture in it, the warmer internal air expelled will have much more moisture (think multiples). .

You do know warm air doesn't naturally contain more moisture just by virtue of being warm? When cold air meets warm air with lots of moisture in it will cause it to condense you know like the way rain is formed. That is the environment you would be encouraging in a property. It will also spread within the property. That is why spare rooms often get damp and behind wardrobes etc...

You want to live in a modern house you don't want to dry clothes in it, it is that simple. They aren't designed to cater for it older houses weren't either but the air rate change is much higher due to construction and materials.

Don't believe if you don't want

murphaph

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You do know warm air doesn't naturally contain more moisture just by virtue of being warm? When cold air meets warm air with lots of moisture in it will cause it to condense you know like the way rain is formed. That is the environment you would be encouraging in a property. It will also spread within the property. That is why spare rooms often get damp and behind wardrobes etc...

You want to live in a modern house you don't want to dry clothes in it, it is that simple. They aren't designed to cater for it older houses weren't either but the air rate change is much higher due to construction and materials.

Don't believe if you don't want

Surely it depends on the construction type?

Masonary (blocks, bricks, mortar, plaster etc.) absorbs moisture from the air and releases it again when the humidity of the adjacent air drops sufficiently.

Ray Palmer

murphaph wrote: »

Surely it depends on the construction type?

Masonary (blocks, bricks, mortar, plaster etc.) absorbs moisture from the air and releases it again when the humidity of the adjacent air drops sufficiently.

Probably why I mentioned construction and materials.

foggy_lad

older houses have more draughts and are positioned better in relation to sunshine and prevailing winds. more recent builds were thrown up to fit the site they were crammed onto. with onlder houses also there is usually a through draught of air while most apartments only have windows etc on one side so there is not the same throuput of air even with all windows and vents open.

An Ri rua

cnocbui wrote: »

I have a Mitsubishi dehumidifier and it works well below 20º. If a refrigerant dehumidifier didn't work at low temperatures then turning the aircon on in a car to demist the windscreen wouldn't work in winter, but it works a treat.

They DON'T work at their best at low temperatures. That's well documented. Theyre optimal at warmer temperatures. A car's aircon is working alongside warm air. Try it on cold air setting and see how effective it is (ps I have the original aircon still working very well in my 14 year old car. I run it daily to keep the seals in order).

MicktheMan

Ray Palmer wrote: »

1.You do know warm air doesn't naturally contain more moisture just by virtue of being warm?
2.When cold air meets warm air with lots of moisture in it will cause it to condense you know like the way rain is formed. That is the environment you would be encouraging in a property. It will also spread within the property. 3.That is why spare rooms often get damp and behind wardrobes etc...


4.Don't believe if you don't want

1.Yes, of course. But we are talking here about warmer air in a domestic environment where there is an abundance of moisture sources from normal domestic activities. In this situation, the warmer internal domestic air will contain more moisture than cooler external air. Fact.
2. We're not talking about weather fronts here. The only thing I'm encouraging here is to replace the "wetter" internal air with "dryer" external air during the heating season.
3. Dampness in spare rooms is generally caused by lower temperatures in combination with reduced air exchange / movement. This can then be exasperated if the spare room is on the north or east side of the property.
4. Belief has little to do with it, it's all about building physics.

murphaph

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Probably why I mentioned construction and materials.

So not all modern buildings are unsuitable for drying clothes in (as long as proper ventilation is exercised).

German buildings never had those massive air vents you find in UK & Irish properties. Germans just KNOW that you need to open all the windows each morning (at a minimum) even when it's -10°C outside.

You ventilate quickly and "powerfully", so as to change the air in the property as fast as possible but to maintain the stored energy in the walls, furniture etc. This energy then quickly transfers back to the now drier air after the property has been aired.

It's recommended here to open windows/doors opposite each other to get a good draught and exchange the air as quickly as possible.

Sun in Capri

If the Landord does decide to deduct money from your deposit I would suggest you say that you are contacting the PRTB and that you shall be organising for a survey of the dampness to establish the cause. Unless he can provide evidence that you have caused the dampness he cannot make you pay for it.

foggy_lad

murphaph wrote: »

So not all modern buildings are unsuitable for drying clothes in (as long as proper ventilation is exercised).

German buildings never had those massive air vents you find in UK & Irish properties. Germans just KNOW that you need to open all the windows each morning (at a minimum) even when it's -10°C outside.

You ventilate quickly and "powerfully", so as to change the air in the property as fast as possible but to maintain the stored energy in the walls, furniture etc. This energy then quickly transfers back to the now drier air after the property has been aired.

It's recommended here to open windows/doors opposite each other to get a good draught and exchange the air as quickly as possible.

http://www.climatecenternorth.de/fileadmin/templates/images/wdb/wdb_gebaeude_lkk_1.jpg

Our parents and grannies would always open the few windows after the kids went off to school and while they were doing housework, for many grannies the half door was always open for most of the morning.

now houses are empty from just after breakfast till much later and the only activity is the clothes drying against the radiators so there is no real ventilation at all.

TheDoc

murphaph wrote: »

So you've blocked the air vent. Do you then properly air the room every day? (windows wide open for several minutes, even in winter)

Yeah we pop open the window in the morning while we have breakfast, showers etc. Close them up before we leave.

She get's home in the afternoon and leaves them open for a good while.

To be honest, I've **** all idea how the mould even happens considering the windows are open EVERYDAY. I assume it's from body heat maybe at night or something? The condensation is only ever there in the morning. It's a big room aswell and it's never uncomfortably warm, the room is if anything normally very, very, cold.

Bit boggling to be fair how it keeps happening

MicktheMan

TheDoc wrote: »

it's never uncomfortably warm, the room is if anything normally very, very, cold.

Sometimes the answer is in the question

TheDoc

MicktheMan wrote: »

Sometimes the answer is in the question

We never turn the heating on in the bedroom. It's a total waste. Have a pretty poor electric fan operated heated mounted on the wall, is like a hairdryer. We bought a warm duvet so just left it at that.

Was under the impression condensation and then eventually mould, is caused by a reaction from heat to cold. It can just come from very cold conditions?

The room is getting as much fresh air as it could tbh via window being opened. Might be part of the problem, inevitably the room get's FREEZING with the window open

mikom

TheDoc wrote: »

To be honest, I've **** all idea how the mould even happens considering the windows are open EVERYDAY. I assume it's from body heat maybe at night or something? The condensation is only ever there in the morning.

Have you tried not breathing while sleeping?

MicktheMan

TheDoc wrote: »

We never turn the heating on in the bedroom. It's a total waste. Have a pretty poor electric fan operated heated mounted on the wall, is like a hairdryer. We bought a warm duvet so just left it at that.

Was under the impression condensation and then eventually mould, is caused by a reaction from heat to cold. It can just come from very cold conditions?

The room is getting as much fresh air as it could tbh via window being opened. Might be part of the problem, inevitably the room get's FREEZING with the window open

Briefly:
Excessive condensation is a result of one or a combination of the following (assuming there are no active leaks in the property):
1. Excessive moisture load (such as drying clothes internally e.g. on rads
2. Insufficient heating
3. Insufficient ventilation

If one or more of these are an issue then the risk of condensation on colder surfaces is high. Condensation provides moisture for mould to thrive.

From what you write, the room is insufficiently heated in order for your ventilation to be effective.

The Glass Key

The room is cold you breath out warm air full of water vapor when you are in bed asleep and that water vapor condenses out on the first cold surface it hits, couldn't really be simpler.

imitation

TheDoc wrote: »

We never turn the heating on in the bedroom. It's a total waste. Have a pretty poor electric fan operated heated mounted on the wall, is like a hairdryer. We bought a warm duvet so just left it at that.

Was under the impression condensation and then eventually mould, is caused by a reaction from heat to cold. It can just come from very cold conditions?

The room is getting as much fresh air as it could tbh via window being opened. Might be part of the problem, inevitably the room get's FREEZING with the window open

If you dont heat a room during winter it will become damp, its simply because the country is so humid and there is no external heat to cause evaporation.

murphaph

Yeah, you gotta heat in the heating season, and air the place, but you can't skip the heating!