Landlord blaming us for dampness

sdowling04

Hi all,

My roommates and I are in a bit of predicament with our landlord and we need advice. From the attached pic you can see that the house we are renting suffers from dampness. We are reaching the end of our lease and will not be renewing. Our landlord came over a few weeks ago and scolded us over the dampness claiming that we were drying our wet towels on the radiators in our room(I had just put the towel on the rad so it wasn't lying around. I only dry our towels in either the hot press or the towel radiator in the bathroom). Now that we are moving out on Sunday I'm fearing that she will take most of our deposit because of the dampness. The dampness is defiantly caused by the house being poorly insulated and lack of ventilation.

Can anybody shed some advice on what to do?
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

sdowling04

Pic attached

foggy_lad

sdowling04 wrote: »

Pic attached

That is caused by faults with the exterior plasterwork or roof problems not by condensation from a few wet towels.

Bullseye1

foggy_lad wrote: »

That is caused by faults with the exterior plasterwork or roof problems not by condensation from a few wet towels.

Actually that could be condensation due to high internal humidity, poor insulation and ventilation. I would advise the OP and his/her housemates to employ a Building Surveyor to carry our a inspection.

sdowling04

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Actually that could be condensation due to high internal humidity, poor insulation and ventilation. I would advise the OP and his/her housemates to employ a Building Surveyor to carry our a inspection.

Thanks for the info! Looking into getting a Building Surveyor now in wilton cork. How much do you recon this will cost??

Millem

sdowling04 wrote: »

Pic attached

Why don't you buy a bottle of dettol mould and Mildrew remover and clean it off before you move out? http://m.tesco.ie/mt/www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=264514881

ABajaninCork

Bleach and boiling water will also do the trick. Try that first. Don't dry anything in the room and see if the damp comes back. That rooms needs an air brick. Is the window the only way to ventilate the room?

I'm not sure it's condensation though, as it's all over the wall, and it's high up. Is there guttering outside the room, and is it in good order?

Bullseye1

sdowling04 wrote: »

Thanks for the info! Looking into getting a Building Surveyor now in wilton cork. How much do you recon this will cost??

I'd say your looking at €200-300 plus vat but could be less if it's limited to one room and not all over the house. Ring and get a quote before agreeing to take one on.

Bullseye1

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Bleach and boiling water will also do the trick. Try that first. Don't dry anything in the room and see if the damp comes back. That rooms needs an air brick. Is the window the only way to ventilate the room?

I'm not sure it's condensation though, as it's all over the wall, and it's high up. Is there guttering outside the room, and is it in good order?

It's actually a typical location for mould to grow as a result of condensation. I'd say its a result of
1. Poorly insulated house.
2. Poor ventilation
3. High Humidy inside the house.

Warm moist air will condense on the colder outer wall surface.

That is not to say there could be a leak at the eaves detail but a Surveyor will confirm.

Bullseye1

Here is a useful guide to the problem and solutions .
http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/media/pdf/f/5/EST_condensation_enw1.pdf

alias no.9

Do you ever open the windows?

sdowling04

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Bleach and boiling water will also do the trick. Try that first. Don't dry anything in the room and see if the damp comes back. That rooms needs an air brick. Is the window the only way to ventilate the room?

I'm not sure it's condensation though, as it's all over the wall, and it's high up. Is there guttering outside the room, and is it in good order?

We never dry anything in our rooms anyway. Im not really bothered about getting the room ventilated as we are moving out, we are just concerned about getting our deposit back. Spending 200-300 on a building surveyor seems a very expensive as this is not our fault and I dont see why we would have to cough up for something that is not our fault.

The issue could be caused from guttering on the outside wall. We checked the feel of the outside wall compared to the inside wall and the outside wall is way colder and wet.

ABajaninCork

Hmmm. Are you able to check the guttering? Might be blocked or broken.

sdowling04

alias no.9 wrote: »

Do you ever open the windows?

of course but not so much these days because of the weather The dampness was even there during the summer when the windows would be opened. My concern is that she is blaming us and she is the one holding our deposit.

hfallada

Buy HG mould remover

http://reviews.diy.com/2191-en_gb/10287856/reviews.htm

Its expensive but amazing. Its also very flumey but works. You spray it and within 15 mins all the mould is gone. Its like it was very there.

moonshadow

It's caused by condensation drying inside the house, ie lack of air circulation ,ie not opening windows when drying clothes,having showers or boiling water
( cooking )
He's right..unfortunately for your sake.

Mech1

Wash it off, Paint it, and tell her you had the engineer round. He said its the leaky gutter so you guys had that fixed already cause your mate's Da owns a Guttering type company.

Bill for repairs will be added if deposit not refunded in full.

miller50841

Your deposit can not be kept that house has little or no insulation. I live in a house built in the last 15 years and have to dry clothes inside as there is no garden and its how its done on most apartments. I would suggest document everything and I hope you brought this to land lords attention before they came as its their responsibility to have the property to the right standard.

The property has not got proper ventilation or insulation I would guess built around the 80s or before.


This was acceptable in the 80s and before but not anymore as the risk to all of your health.

Are you on a lease?

If you have any further problems get in touch with Threshold and then if deposit is kept take the bad land lord to the prtb.

sdowling04

miller50841 wrote: »

Your deposit can not be kept that house has little or no insulation. I live in a house built in the last 15 years and have to dry clothes inside as there is no garden and its how its done on most apartments. I would suggest document everything and I hope you brought this to land lords attention before they came as its their responsibility to have the property to the right standard.

The property has not got proper ventilation or insulation I would guess built around the 80s or before.


This was acceptable in the 80s and before but not anymore as the risk to all of your health.

Are you on a lease?

If you have any further problems get in touch with Threshold and then if deposit is kept take the bad land lord to the prtb.

Thanks, yes we are on a lease. I think ill go ahead and get one of thoes cleaners and then be ready for a battle with the landlord

The Glass Key

OP don't forget to take a good load of pictures before you leave detailing as much of the house as possible, if it does come to a battle later it might be useful evidence. You might for example be able to prove from your pictures that there is no ventilation in the room.

Pat Mustard

sdowling04 wrote: »

we are just concerned about getting our deposit back. Spending 200-300 on a building surveyor seems a very expensive as this is not our fault and I dont see why we would have to cough up for something that is not our fault.

Sounds reasonable. The landlord sounds a bit clueless. Just insist on getting your full deposit back. If the landlord won't play ball, there's the PRTB.

hfallada

Op by law you should have a proper functioning vent in each room. Also if you don't have a garden or balcony you should have a drier. If you don't have either of the above tell the landlord he is breaking the law

Try to avoid using the prtb as they are probably the slowest state agency in Ireland.

sdowling04

hfallada wrote: »

Op by law you should have a proper functioning vent in each room. Also if you don't have a garden or balcony you should have a drier. If you don't have either of the above tell the landlord he is breaking the law

Try to avoid using the prtb as they are probably the slowest state agency in Ireland.

Cheers, ya there are no vents in the rooms and my wall has quite a large crack on it. She is one b%^ch of a landlord

moonshadow

A window is a vent.

Juwwi

You need to check with your neighbours to see if they have the same problem.

Chances are you will find a neighbour with mould your landlord wont have a leg to stand on then.

MicktheMan

foggy_lad wrote: »

That is caused by faults with the exterior plasterwork or roof problems not by condensation from a few wet towels.

Tis amazing that someone can diagnose a fault by just looking at a pic without knowing anything about the construction make-up

sdowling04 wrote: »

Thanks for the info! Looking into getting a Building Surveyor now in wilton cork. How much do you recon this will cost??

pm me if you want a good Cork based surveying engineer who specialises in damp investigations

Bullseye1 wrote: »

It's actually a typical location for mould to grow as a result of condensation. I'd say its a result of
1. Poorly insulated house.
2. Poor ventilation
3. High Humidy inside the house.

4. Inadequate heating

sdowling04 wrote: »

We never dry anything in our rooms anyway.

You don't need to, to have a problem in your room

sdowling04 wrote: »

as this is not our fault

Are you sure?

sdowling04 wrote: »

We checked the feel of the outside wall compared to the inside wall and the outside wall is way colder and wet.

Of course it is colder, it's an external wall.

robbie1977 wrote: »

Chances are you will find a neighbour with mould your landlord wont have a leg to stand on then.

And why is that?

alang184

In my opinion, from what you've described, you're probably both at fault. The insulation on the walls are probably at a level such that, even with adequate window-opening, some mould may still appear. But if you're not opening the windows at all during the day just because it's winter, then that's a significant contributor.

From what I see, tenants/occupiers (even people owning a house) tend to underestimate the necessity for opening windows and ensuring ventilation throughout a house/apartment etc. When I occasionally see the windows of the apartment below me from the outside, I notice the windows are totally steamed up, full of moisture. And I also notice that the windows are never open. You can get away with it in apartments like mine, because they are the modern type whereby it has an inner dry-wall, separated from the concrete of the outer wall (a consequence of this, however, is terrible, terrible sound-transmission between dwellings). But in older-style apartments/houses, where the inner wall is just the bare concrete wall, mould can occur more easily, from what I understand.

Overall, I don't feel the landlord has grounds to withold the deposit. Even though you are contributing to the problem by not keeping the windows open each day for a period of time, it sounds like some mould would still occur even with excellent ventilation handling with opening of windows etc.

roy rodgers

op its not your fault, end of story, as the moisture could be coming from the outside walls, the floor, a leak in the house , the roof etc etc..
ask the landlord to prove that its not coming from one of the above before to get a survey on it then tell him that you have a friend that is a building survey and we will moisture test the walls floor ceilings to see where the moisture is coming from.. i guarantee he will run a mile.

this crap about leaving a window every day is total rubbish there is enough of adventitious air in a house to solve any of that.
its his problem so be cute and dont let him run all over you..

makeorbrake

For those saying its not the OPs fault, that's rubbish. You have no solid evidence to support that! As someone has pointed out, a window is ventilation - so long as someone opens the ruddy thing!
Again, as someone has already mentioned, inadequate heating may have a part to play.

If you're moving out, then I don't think it makes sense to pay a surveyor to check it out. Scrub very very lightly with bleach. End of story - regardless of where the problem lies.

alang184

roy rodgers wrote: »

op its not your fault, end of story, as the moisture could be coming from the outside walls, the floor, a leak in the house , the roof etc etc..

I just can't agree with this at all. The OP is not talking about moisture due to a leak. The moisture is most likely coming from the air. So lets say you're on a jammed bus on a cold day with all the windows shut - all windows get covered by a layer of wet. So what - this is coming from a crack in the windows? Of course not. It's from moisture in the air. This is a common issue with interior walls where there is no dry-lining.

roy rodgers wrote: »

this crap about leaving a window every day is total rubbish there is enough of adventitious air in a house to solve any of that.

This is just wrong. Ventilation is crucial for cleaning the air quality, and helping reduce what can lead to dampness and moisture covering the inside walls.

murphaph

moonshadow wrote: »

A window is a vent.

Yep. No vents in most Continental properties. Occupiers simply know that they must air their properties by opening windows wide a couple of times a day. It's much more energy efficient than a vent that lets a constant draught in, which is a lazy solution that found its way into British and Irish building regs.

yankinlk

MicktheMan wrote: »

Tis amazing that someone can diagnose a fault by just looking at a pic without knowing anything about the construction make-up

I once had a tenant that robbed the hose out the back of a dryer... the next tenant carried on unknowingly drying clothes in the dryer for 6 months. It was like a rainforest in the house... tenant never mentioned any issue until it was time to exchange keys/deposit.

Mr. Incognito

Just don't pay the last months rent and tell her to take it out of the deposit.

moonshadow

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Just don't pay the last months rent and tell her to take it out of the deposit.

That is theft.

Mr. Incognito

moonshadow wrote: »

That is theft.

How is it theft??

The deposit is a security deposit. Against damage to the property and unpaid rent. Most PRTB cases are landlords withholding deposits. THAT is theft. The landlord has money on account. You allocate that to rent. That is payment for a service. Theft is taking something for free.

It is the tenants money held on trust. NOT the landlords money.

murphaph

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

How is it theft??

The deposit is a security deposit. Against damage to the property and unpaid rent. Most PRTB cases are landlords withholding deposits. THAT is theft. The landlord has money on account. You allocate that to rent. That is payment for a service. Theft is taking something for free.

It is the tenants money held on trust. NOT the landlords money.

To be returned AFTER the property is vacated in proper order and damage free. In this case there IS damage and the cause is NOT clear. The tenant may be responsible for this damage and you are advocating that he skip town without paying to remedy it. There may be other damage also, we don't know.

What happens when a tenant uses the deposit for the rent and there is damage present?

sdowling04

makeorbrake wrote: »

For those saying its not the OPs fault, that's rubbish. You have no solid evidence to support that! As someone has pointed out, a window is ventilation - so long as someone opens the ruddy thing!
Again, as someone has already mentioned, inadequate heating may have a part to play.

If you're moving out, then I don't think it makes sense to pay a surveyor to check it out. Scrub very very lightly with bleach. End of story - regardless of where the problem lies.

I have said many times that the window was opened daily during the summer and the dampness was still there to the same extent. I do open my window during the winter but not leave it open for hours on end like I did in the summer. I think by looking at the crack along I can tell that the dampness is due to the building itself.

moonshadow

Please spend 3 minutes reading this link it will save you spending money on an engineer to tell you the very same thing.

http://www.nhbc.co.uk/NHBCPublications/LiteratureLibrary/HomeownerDocuments/filedownload,31929,en.pdf

foggy_lad

moonshadow wrote: »

A window is a vent.

No it is not.

Cuddlesworth

Assuming she opens the windows occasionally there is no way that you could get that much mould over such a large area. You can clearly see its been cleaned as well. The mould and damp also comes in quite far on what I assume is the top of a inside wall. In a case like that I would first look at water ingress from external, maybe a blocked balcony drain above.

Toast4532

My mother had similar dampness in her bedroom and it turned out there was a leak in the roof, over her bedroom. The leak was sorted and the dampness hasn't returned since, that was about 1.5 years ago.

runawaybishop

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Just don't pay the last months rent and tell her to take it out of the deposit.

The landlord will then be able to take a case against the tenant.

Blingy

sdowling04 wrote: »

We never dry anything in our rooms anyway. Im not really bothered about getting the room ventilated as we are moving out, we are just concerned about getting our deposit back. Spending 200-300 on a building surveyor seems a very expensive as this is not our fault and I dont see why we would have to cough up for something that is not our fault.

The issue could be caused from guttering on the outside wall. We checked the feel of the outside wall compared to the inside wall and the outside wall is way colder and wet.

You need to clean the house anyway to get your deposit back. Some hot water and bleach or any cleaning products will take off the mould. It will come back but that's not your problem.

sdowling04

Blingy wrote: »

You need to clean the house anyway to get your deposit back. Some hot water and bleach or any cleaning products will take off the mould. It will come back but that's not your problem.

Ya we have hired a professional cleaner and the house is spotless, just got mold remover and will clean the walls and the kitchen before out meeting at 8:30

The_Morrigan

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Just don't pay the last months rent and tell her to take it out of the deposit.

Please do not encourage that behaviour here, it is a breach of the tenants obligations.

Ray Palmer

So OP have you figured out you are the most likely cause of the damp problem and the LL is right?

I have property that only ever has had damp problems when a tenant moves in and amazingly goes when they leave. No matter how many times I explained that drying there clothes in the house was the problem the wouldn't believe me. Like the OP said they never dry clothes in the bedroom. They just couldn't understand that drying clothes elsewhere in the property could cause damp in the bedroom.
When damp is an issue the most likely cause is the use of the property not construction.

sdowling04

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So OP have you figured out you are the most likely cause of the damp problem and the LL is right?

I have property that only ever has had damp problems when a tenant moves in and amazingly goes when they leave. No matter how many times I explained that drying there clothes in the house was the problem the wouldn't believe me. Like the OP said they never dry clothes in the bedroom. They just couldn't understand that drying clothes elsewhere in the property could cause damp in the bedroom.
When damp is an issue the most likely cause is the use of the property not construction.

Like I said before, not my house...not my problem.

We never dry our stuff in the room and we do leave windows open so I don't need to pay a building surveyor 3-400Eur to tell me that its the property's fault. All I know is I have bought the mold remover and I'm going to try and remove the mold before she comes over tonight. If it doesn't go away then we are gonna have a problem and shes not going to take most of our deposit like I expect her to.

djimi

sdowling04 wrote: »

All I know is I have bought the mold remover and I'm going to try and remove the mold before she comes over tonight. If it doesn't go away then we are gonna have a problem and shes not going to take most of our deposit like I expect her to.

Just bear in mind that mould remover stinks to high heaven, and if youre trying to use it to cover up a mould problem then its going to be very obvious unless you can leave several hour to air the room for the smell to go away.

runawaybishop

sdowling04 wrote: »

Like I said before, not my house...not my problem.

We never dry our stuff in the room and we do leave windows open so I don't need to pay a building surveyor 3-400Eur to tell me that its the property's fault. All I know is I have bought the mold remover and I'm going to try and remove the mold before she comes over tonight. If it doesn't go away then we are gonna have a problem and shes not going to take most of our deposit like I expect her to.

Are you drying clothes inside? If the landlord can prove you are at fault then it definitely is your problem. Get rid of the mold as you mentioned and ensure you aren't drying anything inside. In fairness you had a towel on a rad when she was around so its not unreasonable for her to think you are drying clothes inside all the time.

sdowling04

djimi wrote: »

Just bear in mind that mould remover stinks to high heaven, and if youre trying to use it to cover up a mould problem then its going to be very obvious unless you can leave several hour to air the room for the smell to go away.

Ya I got the one with no chlorine in it its not meant to stink the place up. but we obviously will open up windows too.

pwurple

sdowling04 wrote: »

Like I said before, not my house...not my problem.

What a fabulous attitude, sure I'll just wreck the place and someone else can pay for it. :rolleyes:

I've seen damage like that from both condensation problems, and from an exterior leak. Condensation would usually be evident as well from things like fogging of the windows.