[Superthread] Mayweather vs Pacman **NO STREAMING REQUESTS**

efb

Didn't Toney have a little 'help' along the way???

walshb

efb wrote: »

Didn't Toney have a little 'help' along the way???

He didn't need it for those innate skills.

FTA69

Errah sure Holyfield was on the gear too and he's still one of the greatest of all time. Toney is my favourite boxer of all time too, but he lost twice to Griffin and was dominated by Jones. Still, for a man like him to beat Holyfield and stand toe to toe with a freak like Sam Peters was amazing. The man is arguably the greatest scrapper in the history of the sport, feared nobody, fought everybody and hopped off whoever was in front of him without ever being knocked out. Also embodied everything great about the science of boxing.

Out of curiosity Walsh,

What do you think was his and Mayweather's best performance?

efb

I think Toney's failed drug test tarnished his record and wouldn't have him in the the same skill level as FMJ or RJJ

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

Errah sure Holyfield was on the gear too and he's still one of the greatest of all time. Toney is my favourite boxer of all time too, but he lost twice to Griffin and was dominated by Jones. Still, for a man like him to beat Holyfield and stand toe to toe with a freak like Sam Peters was amazing. The man is arguably the greatest scrapper in the history of the sport, feared nobody, fought everybody and hopped off whoever was in front of him without ever being knocked out. Also embodied everything great about the science of boxing.

Out of curiosity Walsh,

What do you think was his and Mayweather's best performance?

Toney had a host of great wins, most notably his destruction of Barkely, and his ridiculous warrior display vs. Jirov (who was unbeaten). His comeback win vs. Nunn, who at that time was considered unbeatable was fantastic. He wasn't all that far behind. The fight was very competitive. I agree, without doubt the greatest skilled scrapper in boxing history.

What separates Toney from say Jones, who beat him, is that I would have far more confidence in Toney being competitive against any man than Jones being competitive. Jones relied on reflexes and agility. Toney was juts all natural fighter and genius. Jones gets murdered vs. Holyfield and Tyson and some others, because reflexes would not be enough against these men. Toney never gets stopped or beaten up against any HW man when he is in shape. The 2002/2003 Toney gives any man ever a competitive fight. He's juts so slick, cute, resilient and tough.

PBFs best display was vs. Gatti and Corrales. Superb displays. A complete master class. I still prefer Toney's not needing to move and use that annoying and IMO fouling low ducking that Floyd uses a lot. Toney's wins just have more braveness and talent and skills surrounding them. He is a deal better on offense whilst in the pocket.

As for his best KO, it's hard to luck past the KO over Jason Robinson. Amazing.

FTA69

efb wrote: »

I think Toney's failed drug test tarnished his record and wouldn't have him in the the same skill level as FMJ or RJJ

Roy tested positive for a banned substance before as well. Toney is one of the most skilled fighters of all time for that matter, no debate or discussion on that one really.

walshb

efb wrote: »

I think Toney's failed drug test tarnished his record and wouldn't have him in the the same skill level as FMJ or RJJ

I rate Toney's fighting skills as much better than these two. These two were superb mainly due to god given reflexes and great feet. Depends on what you like. I much rather, and rate higher the Toney who stands right there and absorbs everything whilst picking you apart. No need to move and duck and dive.

Jones for me trumps PBF.

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

Toney had a host of great wins, most notably his destruction of Barkely, and his ridiculous warrior display vs. Jirov (who was unbeaten). His comeback win vs. Nunn, who at that time was considered unbeatable was fantastic. He wasn't all that far behind. The fight was very competitive. I agree, without doubt the greatest skilled scrapper in boxing history.

What separates Toney from say Jones, who beat him, is that I would have far more confidence in Toney being competitive against any man than Jones being competitive. Jones relied on reflexes and agility. Toney was juts all natural fighter and genius. Jones gets murdered vs. Holyfield and Tyson and some others, because reflexes would not be enough against these men. Toney never gets stopped or beaten up against any HW man when he is in shape. The 2002/2003 Toney gives any man ever a competitive fight. He's juts so slick, cute, resilient and tough.

PBFs best display was vs. Gatti and Corrales. Superb displays. A complete master class. I still prefer Toney's not needing to move and use that annoying and IMO fouling low ducking that Floyd uses a lot. Toney's wins just have more braveness and talent and skills surrounding them. He is a deal better on offense whilst in the pocket.

I agree with you regarding Toney. His destruction of Barkley was his best dominant display where he also showed unbelievable hand speed and intelligent combinations. He had this bizarre, almost pawing left hook to the body and head that still packed a serious amount of power and he was an expert at sneaking it in at all sorts of angles with the best of timing. Jirov v Toney is probably my favourite fight of all time to be honest, absolute barnstormer.

Floyd v Gatti was his most dominant but arguably the more impressive was what he did to Corrales, a man who towered over him but still managed to score 3 odd knockdowns. I disagree with your comments about Floyd's ducking, I could watch him all day.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

I agree with you regarding Toney. His destruction of Barkley was his best dominant display where he also showed unbelievable hand speed and intelligent combinations. He had this bizarre, almost pawing left hook to the body and head that still packed a serious amount of power and he was an expert at sneaking it in at all sorts of angles with the best of timing. Jirov v Toney is probably my favourite fight of all time to be honest, absolute barnstormer.

Floyd v Gatti was his most dominant but arguably the more impressive was what he did to Corrales, a man who towered over him but still managed to score 3 odd knockdowns. I disagree with your comments about Floyd's ducking, I could watch him all day.

He uses a lot of ducking, very low ducking and almost turning his back. For me that is a sort of desperate defense as opposed to a real skill. I see it as having a foul element to it.

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

He uses a lot of ducking, very low ducking and almost turning his back. For me that is a sort of desperate defense as opposed to a real skill. I see it as having a foul element to it.

In fairness though walsh he usually launches counters off the back of it and does so at a time of his choosing. It's a skill in itself.

walshb

FTA69 wrote: »

In fairness though walsh he usually launches counters off the back of it and does so at a time of his choosing. It's a skill in itself.

I'm not so sure. A lot of the times he uses it to avoid fighting or defending in a "fair" way. I have seen it in many fights. It juts reeks of desperation as opposed to real skill. I will say that to duck like that the way he does is skillful in terms of body mechanics, just that I think he almost fouls doing it.

Take Pea Whitaker, who also used to duck very low, but in his case, he mostly started straight at you and slipped and moved the head whilst you tried to hit him Very powerful thighs to support himself. Pea still gave the foe a target to hit. Floyd ducks low, and turns and comes up with the shoulder and elbow in your face. I saw it quite a bit vs. Hatton. The problem was that Cortez either didn't see it, or decided to allow it.

FTA69

Great video of some of his antics here.

Praetorian22

Let me start of by saying I cannot wait for this fight!

Prediction: Mayweather.

I believe strongly that Mayweather will win this fight beit easily on points or via a surprise rare knockout.

I'm aware the fan-base online shares its own predictions and opinions on both fighters, who would win and how they would do so. I've been reading comments online about this fight for plenty of years and the most common slogan going around for this particular match seems to be "Speed V Power".

That may be true and play a huge role in how the fight plays out but there is a lot more involved here. From my perspective yes Pacquaio is a great fighter with talent, aggression, offensive counter skills and good defense skills.

I think it's easy for those who do not watch boxing on a full time basis to sit back and say Pacquaio will win, Floyd will finally get beaten etc. There is most definitely a general dislike for Mayweather due to his personality and the way he carries himself.

But that all has nothing to do with how skilled that man is in the ring.

If you've watched boxing and watched Mayweather fights there is no denying he's the best fighter alive today.

Freddie Roach has been training opponents for years against Mayweather and has come up lacking a win each and every time.

47-0 soon to be 48-0 Mayweather Win all day!

Also important point to highlight

** I hope I do not see Amir Kahn's name mentioned on this thread **

supersean1999

walshb wrote: »

For me the greatest fighter, not just boxer is James Toney. The most natural and fluid and confident fighter I have ever seen. Loads more natural fighting talent than Floyd. Toney could do it all, and never ever needed to run or duck or spoil to do it. Just hard and honest brilliance. He wasn't blessed with exceptional speed or agility or really fast feet. He still had for me he most natural fighting talent of all. Met everyone and won titles from MW up to HW.

I agree he was superb, but in fairness Jones had his number

walshb

supersean1999 wrote: »

I agree he was superb, but in fairness Jones had his number

He did, that night. I have said this many times, it was not some beating up job. Just Jones being a little too slick and fast for Toney.

walshb

Praetorian22 wrote: »

** I hope I do not see Amir Kahn's name mentioned on this thread **

I think you will be very disappointed.

HigginsJ

When are we likely to get word as to what will be on the undercard.

supersean1999

walshb wrote: »

He did, that night. I have said this many times, it was not some beating up job. Just Jones being a little too slick and fast for Toney.

Would not not mean he was a better boxer

walshb

supersean1999 wrote: »

Would not not mean he was a better boxer

On that night he won the bout and deservedly won. Boxer-fighter. I like to separate them somewhat. I personally rate Toney as the better fighter. Both are excellent boxers. Toney for me is just the more complete fighter.

supersean1999

walshb wrote: »

On that night he won the bout and deservedly won. Boxer-fighter. I like to separate them somewhat. I personally rate Toney as the better fighter. Both are excellent boxers. Tone for me is just the more complete fighter.

I could spend hours watching clips of them, class acts,

efb

Happy Birthday PBF!

strobe

Nope I'm not doing it. We've waited too damn long. No negativity from me. So here's my post.

It's going to be an awesome fight. The fight to end all fights. It's gonna be a blockbuster. People will talk about it like the thrilla. Both fighters have been coasting as they've outclassed all their recent opponents by such a distance. Floyd's as slick and crafty as ever. He's just eased off in recent fights. Manny is still a blistering lightning and thunder producing machine in human form. He's just been saving himself for this fight as he knew it was coming.
It's gonna be a blitzkrieg. A sensation. The two greats digging deep into their very boxing souls to delve up for boxing fans everywhere a phenomenon of boxing wizardry reminiscent of gold plated diamonds wrapped in bacon but with two lads boxing each other in the face instead of any if that gibberish I just said. We'll cry and scream and at one point black out as we haven't realised we've been holding our breathes for two minutes and fifty nine seconds repeatedly. It's gonna happen. I can feel it in the ether of the universe.

Now I'm off to stick my fingers in my ears and shout "la la la la I can't hear you".

Ding Ding Ding! "leeeeeeet's get ready to ruuuuuuuumblllllllleeeee!

walshb

strobe wrote: »

Nope I'm not doing it. We've waited too damn long. No negativity from me. So here's my post.

It's going to be an awesome fight. The fight to end all fights. It's gonna be a blockbuster. People will talk about it like the thrilla. Both fighters have been coasting as they've outclassed all their recent opponents by such a distance. Floyd's as slick and crafty as ever. He's just eased off in recent fights. Manny is still a blistering lightning and thunder producing machine in human form. He's just been saving himself for this fight as he knew it was coming.
It's gonna be a blitzkrieg. A sensation. The two greats digging deep into their very boxing souls to delve up for boxing fans everywhere a phenomenon of boxing wizardry reminiscent of gold plated diamonds wrapped in bacon but with two lads boxing each other in the face instead of any if that gibberish I just said. We'll cry and scream and at one point black out as we haven't realised we've been holding our breathes for two minutes and fifty nine seconds repeatedly. It's gonna happen. I can feel it in the ether of the universe.

Now I'm off to stick my fingers in my ears and shout "la la la la I can't hear you".

Ding Ding Ding! "leeeeeeet's get ready to ruuuuuuuumblllllllleeeee!

I guarantee when we look back on it the best thing about this fight will be the craic and banter and dare I say it, heated debates on this forum surrounding this fight. It's going to get more intense now in the weeks leading up to the fight.

efb

We should sign off our posts #TeamMaweather or #TeamPacquaio
Or #Fencesitter :-P

walshb

Undercard is in

Lomachenko-Rigo at 126
Khan-JMM @ 147
Provodnikov-Garcia at 140
Wilder-Fury at HW

Can't wait!

menoscemo

walshb wrote: »

Undercard is in

Lomachenko-Rigo at 126
Khan-JMM @ 147
Provodnikov-Garcia at 140
Wilder-Fury at HW

Can't wait!

Seriously? If so; that's worth paying for!!!

Halloween Jack

walshb wrote: »

Undercard is in

Lomachenko-Rigo at 126
Khan-JMM @ 147
Provodnikov-Garcia at 140
Wilder-Fury at HW

Can't wait!

If correct that's a crazy good undercard... Curse my mate and his poxy stag!

walshb

menoscemo wrote: »

Seriously? If so; that's worth paying for!!!

Sorry, wrong thread. Should have been the fantasy under-card thread..:pac:

Throw in the the fight of all fights that should have happened, Lewis-Bowe and I'd part with my life savings!

MeheeHohee

walshb wrote: »

Undercard is in

Lomachenko-Rigo at 126
Khan-JMM @ 147
Provodnikov-Garcia at 140
Wilder-Fury at HW

Can't wait!

Total Bullsh*t

walshb

MeheeHohee wrote: »

Total Bullsh*t

Pessimist!