Waterford Station closes after landslide!

mike65

Yikes!

http://www.thejournal.ie/waterford-train-station-landslide-1245324-Jan2014/

corktina

it looks as if it's taken out the iconic signal box :-( I hope it's just the camera angle!

cbl593h

Cue the IR apologists, "shur twas an act of god"............ Minimal maintenance, Cork station canopy part 2.

Losty Dublin

cbl593h wrote: »

Cue the IR apologists, "shur twas an act of god"............ Minimal maintenance, Cork station canopy part 2.

So should have Irish Rail installed a drainage system or waterproofed the side of an entire hill just in case?

cbl593h

IÉ have a duty of care to customers/staff/contractors. You take reasonable precautions to make sure rockfaces/platform canopies/viaducts/bridges don't collapse.

Where's the "sarcasm" smiley :rolleyes:..........

Dawlish UK- trains one and two here give you the idea...

corktina

is it their roackface though?

gozunda

corktina wrote: »

it looks as if it's taken out the iconic signal box :-( I hope it's just the camera angle!

Do you mean the signal box in the photo?

The big signal box that went over both lines was anchored to a brick pillar anchored to the rock face I think... it looks like the slide might be just to the right of the signal box...

The rock face was reinforced and covered with rock fall protectors in parts as far as I remember. The rock is a fairly friable shale and with the amount of rainfall in the last few weeks I'm not surprised there has been rock movement. There is water movement from the hill above through the permeable shale so not too sure was their much could have been done to prevent it.

It is of note that this is now the third main train station that the current conditions have taken out

Cork Kent station - Wind damage to roof 18/12/2013
Pearse Station Dublin - Wind damage to roof 13/12/2013
Waterford - Rockfall

Losty Dublin

cbl593h wrote: »

IÉ have a duty of care to customers/staff/contractors. You take reasonable precautions to make sure rockfaces/platform canopies/viaducts/bridges don't collapse.

Reasonable being the operative word. Acts of God, extreme weather, shale cliffs and external occupiers of said land are another thing.

BuffyBot

cbl593h wrote: »

Cue the IR apologists, "shur twas an act of god"............ Minimal maintenance, Cork station canopy part 2.

I assume you have very specific, and verifiable evidence of negligence on IE's part which lead to this incident? No? Ok then, please don't post such nonsense again.

mike65

Two new photos here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88251293&postcount=9

Trick of the Tail

Another pic:

corktina

signal box looks undamaged....hope so

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

signal box looks undamaged....hope so

Bit early to say, the structure behind the brick wall may not be in best shape.

Trick of the Tail

We'll forgive me, but that rock face is probably sandstone and therefore is not the most stable.

If no one in CIE had ever thought to have it shored up then that is negligent.

A bit like when the bridge near Malahide collapsed; that was so nearly a disaster with loss of life, and was largely because CIE hadn't bothered to check it, and had lost the plans anyway.

Sligo Quay

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

If no one in CIE had ever thought to have it shored up then that is negligent.
.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing, everybody is an expert after the event.

Trick of the Tail

Well companies like CIE employ many people these days, in risk assessment, whose job is to predict things that might happen and take steps to prevent them.

To foresee hindsight, if you will.

This is a very important duty when you're dealing with the safety of the public.

So if that mechanism has failed, in this case, Malahide or others, then something is wrong.

Jamie2k9

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

Well companies like CIE employ many people these days, in risk assessment, whose job is to predict things that might happen and take steps to prevent them.

To foresee hindsight, if you will.

This is a very important duty when you're dealing with the safety of the public.

So if that mechanism has failed, in this case, Malahide or others, then something is wrong.

Stop being a bigget. The area of rock is a lot bigger that the train station. Could of happened anywhere. If it happened on the road near by who's job is it to prevent it from happening?

mike65

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Stop being a bigget. The area of rock is a lot bigger that the train station. Could of happened anywhere. If it happened on the road near by who's job is it to prevent it from happening?

They removed the cliff face danger along the road by creating a series of tiers.

Sligo Quay

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Stop being a bigget. The area of rock is a lot bigger that the train station. Could of happened anywhere. If it happened on the road near by who's job is it to prevent it from happening?

Exactly, very good post, I'm very familiar with Waterford station traveling in and out of it for years when I worked in Waterford Port. That cliff face has been very secure with gorse growing on it for years as long as I can remember, when you have ''stuff'' growing on a cliff face, it tends to bind it together with its roots, but in places where the cliff face is open and bare with sheer rock, then Irish Rail have secured it, you can see it at Bray Head.
Waterford couldn't have been predited, now I'm no expert, nether am I a geologist, nor am i a scientist in the study of cliff face, I just see the obvious, cliff face held together for over a hundred years, came apart due to very unusual weather, it could have happened 20years ago and collapsed on 1 of my Bell trains going to the port, some ''faults'' are hiden and are not obvious, but I'm no expert.
Now ask me anything about shipping.....

Losty Dublin

Sligo Quay wrote: »

Now ask me anything about shipping.....

What is a ship?

Sligo Quay

Losty Dublin wrote: »

What is a ship?

Safest form of transport, no other floats on water, you should read my book on shipping;)

Losty Dublin

Sligo Quay wrote: »

Safest form of transport,

Try telling that to Jack Dawson, Robinson Crueso or Lord Nelson :pac:

flazio

Is this the same station that had it's platforms flooded last year?

Jamie2k9

flazio wrote: »

Is this the same station that had it's platforms flooded last year?

Yes the platforms are flooded this evening but not on the same scale.

They removed the cliff face danger along the road by creating a series of tiers.

Who did, that still wouldn't stop a landslide, did they not think about doing it all correctly. The flood defence along the quay has increased flooding in the station so another half arsed job.

n0brain3r

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Who did, that still wouldn't stop a landslide, did they not think about doing it all correctly.

The council or NRA presumably and their responsibility would have ended where the road diverges. Rock slide prevention is its purpose. Its quite striking the contrast in management of the cutting between the road and trackbed frontage. Along the roadway it has been tiered, concrete retaining walls poured, rock bolts installed and vegetation cleared, along the trackbed it looks as if it was left to gorse bushes and chicken wire.

John Denver

Anybody from Waterford or is familiar with Plunkett station knows this was just a freak accident. Unfortunately its not until incidents like this that the weaknesses in the cliff face or rock surface can be dealt with!
IE were saying on WLRfm today that the work could take up to 2 weeks to complete but I think the bay platforms will be in use in a day or 2 but the line down to Belview Port could be out of use for a significant period affecting the DFDS liners.

flyingsnail

John Denver wrote: »

but the line down to Belview Port could be out of use for a significant period affecting the DFDS liners.

They could always go the long way around :P

Captain Chaos

flyingsnail wrote: »

They could always go the long way around :P

Or go back to road and no more contract for IE.

corktina

yep, via Rosslare Strand is it?

Hungerford

corktina wrote: »

yep, via Rosslare Strand is it?

IRN report that the liners will still run through Waterford with hand signalling used due to damage to the manual signalling at Waterford Central.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Jamie2k9

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Only Ballina-Waterford is cleared for liners, no other lines are allowed to take them without clearance.

John Denver

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The Rosslare line and the South Wexford line both are not cleared for the 9'6" high cube containers or the CPW's so that idea was always a non runner.

John Denver

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Only Ballina-Waterford is cleared for liners, no other lines are allowed to take them without clearance.

Snap:D

Jamie2k9

With a lot of damage done to the signals one wonders will IE finally go CTC instead od repairing the current clapped out systems. It was only a few months ago IE took steps to stop floods messing up the systems.

Sligo Quay

John Denver wrote: »

Anybody from Waterford or is familiar with Plunkett station knows this was just a freak accident. Unfortunately its not until incidents like this that the weaknesses in the cliff face or rock surface can be dealt with!
.

yep, some posters here have never been in Plunkett station, freak accident indeed, the important thing is to learn from it.

Trick of the Tail

I've been there many times. It was obvious that the rockface there hadn't been looked at or maintained in an age.

Its not a freak accident, its an occurrence that could have been avoided if IE bothered doing routine maintenance and safety surveys.

Jamie2k9

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

I've been there many times. It was obvious that the rockface there hadn't been looked at or maintained in an age.

Its not a freak accident, its an occurrence that could have been avoided if IE bothered doing routine maintenance and safety surveys.

If it has never happened before why would you mess with something that is not broken. If the council felt the need to fix the road side why not fix the railway side. If safety was top they would of completed all the works.

Not exactly the same but all the damage on the west cost was "preventable" if action was taken....the only reason people have issue with this is because it happened with IE, if it was on a side of a road nobody would say a word.

Losty Dublin

John Denver wrote: »

The Rosslare line and the South Wexford line both are not cleared for the 9'6" high cube containers or the CPW's so that idea was always a non runner.

Suitable engine availability is another issue. 201 Class loco's are not allowed south of Arklow bar for an emergency. There are not passed for the South Wexford line and they are certainly not passed out for the Barrow bridge.

In any case, I would wager that either station at Rosslare hasn't a long enough passing loop for a runaround manoeuvre to take place.

Jamie2k9

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Suitable engine availability is another issue. 201 Class loco's are not allowed south of Arklow bar for an emergency. There are not passed for the South Wexford line and they are certainly not passed out for the Barrow bridge.

In any case, I would wager that either station at Rosslare hasn't a long enough passing loop for a runaround manoeuvre to take place.

South Wexford line could never handle the payload of the DFDS service, they could always find an 071 as 201's very rarely operate to Waterford. One return trip in the last 4 or 5 months.

Sligo Quay

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

I've been there many times. It was obvious that the rockface there hadn't been looked at or maintained in an age.

Its not a freak accident, its an occurrence that could have been avoided if IE bothered doing routine maintenance and safety surveys.

Everybody on the entire planet now knows why RMS Titanic sank, but before the disaster all the experts thought it was unsinkable, get where I'm going.

My last reply in this thread, I'm starting a campaign ''bring back Judgement day'':D

Trick of the Tail

In the same way the Malahide bridge collapse was due to negligence and lack of maintenance.

That had never happened before - doesn't mean it was ok that a train full of people nearly fell into the sea.

Victor

mike65 wrote: »

They removed the cliff face danger along the road by creating a series of tiers.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Who did, that still wouldn't stop a landslide, did they not think about doing it all correctly.

You can see the difference in the cliff face treatment here: http://binged.it/1i3l5li

https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Waterford&hl=en&ll=52.266779,-7.119511&spn=0.001362,0.003819&sll=53.32432,-6.251695&sspn=0.1702,0.488892&oq=wat&hnear=Waterford,+County+Waterford&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.266627,-7.120202&panoid=43JoRW3pyes1yWnUA42peA&cbp=12,47.81,,1,-0.9

https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Waterford&hl=en&ll=52.267048,-7.120922&spn=0.001362,0.003819&sll=53.32432,-6.251695&sspn=0.1702,0.488892&oq=wat&hnear=Waterford,+County+Waterford&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=52.267166,-7.121105&panoid=hK7yOke3gVQWN5OzOBiv1Q&cbp=12,337.51,,1,-9.9

n0brain3r

Some of the replies here are off the wall! The cutting never collapsed onto the roadway but was reinforced all the same. It appears the ah sure it will be grand approach was applied at the train station and the inevitable happened. I've never been knocked down crossing the road does that mean I shouldn't look both ways?

The comparison to the west would be acceptable if roads, piers, promenades etc. hadn't been closed but they were as the damage/danger was anticipated. The problem I have is that IE should of known the rock face was vulnerable we had heavy rain and poor weather conditions leading up to the collapse and I've no doubt that they were factors but IE seem to be blind to the danger given the difference in its appearance along the roadside and track bed.

If when the RAIU report is published it's found that everything in relation to risk assessment and mitigation was up to an acceptable standard and recent inspections where performed properly and found no reason for concern then fair enough but for now I'm skeptical.

n97 mini

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If it has never happened before why would you mess with something that is not broken.

The Malahide viaduct never collapsed before it collapsed either!

Did IE call in any sort of expert on land formations, such as a geologist? Or did they drink tae while looking up and conclude "it hasn't collapsed yet ara shur it's grand!"

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If it has never happened before why would you mess with something that is not broken. If the council felt the need to fix the road side why not fix the railway side. If safety was top they would of completed all the works.

Not exactly the same but all the damage on the west cost was "preventable" if action was taken....the only reason people have issue with this is because it happened with IE, if it was on a side of a road nobody would say a word.

in fairness, the council took a lot of the rockface away when they widened the roadand I mean a lot, that was one very narrow road once.

corktina

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

In the same way the Malahide bridge collapse was due to negligence and lack of maintenance.

That had never happened before - doesn't mean it was ok that a train full of people nearly fell into the sea.

the Malahide bridge collapse was caused by the sea scouring out the foundations.Only easy to see with hindsight.....

n0brain3r

corktina wrote: »

the Malahide bridge collapse was caused by the sea scouring out the foundations.Only easy to see with hindsight.....

Have you read the published report? It's here http://www.raiu.ie/download/pdf/accident_malahide.pdf Members of the public raised concerns re scouring under the bridge piers and ultimately IE inspection and knowledge where found very wanting it was plain to see for anyone who knew when and what they were looking at.

cbl593h

Sligo Quay wrote: »

yep, some posters here have never been in Plunkett station, freak accident indeed, the important thing is to learn from it.

Ah now come on HG, you never know where someone's home town might be.

Oh I better stay quiet or I'll be told off for posting nonsense.......

Losty Dublin

Waterford is re-opening this afternoon.

Jamie2k9

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Waterford is re-opening this afternoon.

Being delayed further flood water receding slower than expected. Expected to open lather today provided high tides don't stop that.