So Persona 4 golden....

ShadowHearth

WTF is this stuff!?!? I heard everyone saying it is very good, so it was on sale for 17eu on PSN and I bit the bullet. Now I hate Jrpgs. The only ones I enjoyed were ff7 and ff8 and I played them a very long time ago( I did started replaying ff7 and still enjoying it a lot ).
Persona 4 golden looks like the maximum mix off all possible jrpg stuff that I fell meh about . Damn school kids, school life, lots of emo stuff, fantasy card system, catch them all jrpg stuff.... And I can't stop playing this game... I just spent 3hour session and I want to go back again ( damn work tomorrow ).

I guess vita is worth buying for this alone. Anyone that had ignored this game due to "weirdness" and "wtf and how that even makes sense" should give it a go. I know I got pleasantly surprised for sure.

cherryghost

Hi

ShadowHearth

cherryghost wrote: »

Hi

I see what you did there lol! I should really be a sleep now... Waking up in 5h... Damn you persona!

krudler

I got it on the psn sale and am really enjoying it so far. Now I'm on the same line of thinking of not being a big fan of the usual JRPG tropes but it's really good fun to play, I'd happily play the story part and none of the battles tbh some of them are a complete chore, but the story is good and it's really charming overall. I can definitely see why it's garnered such praise over the years.

johnny_ultimate

If you caught me in the right mood, I'd probably expend a couple of thousand words on how the narrative, themes, gameplay mechanics and aesthetics of Persona 4 gel together to make it one of the greatest, most remarkably cohesive achievements in video game history, and certainly my personal favourite.

But it's half three in the morning and I'm going to sleep.

CiDeRmAn

After the likes of Johnny U and Retr0 had banged on about this series of games I bought Persona 3 a couple of years ago, then never played it, it sits with the rest of my PS2 collection.
But this popped up in the sale in GameStop and i remember the same two raving about it as well so I got it and Tearaway for 50.
Glad to hear it's great, looking forward to giving it a whirl.

richymcdermott

My favourite Jrpg and one of my favourite games series of all time. I am glad more people are playing it :L

snausages

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

If you caught me in the right mood, I'd probably expend a couple of thousand words on how the narrative, themes, gameplay mechanics and aesthetics of Persona 4 gel together to make it one of the greatest, most remarkably cohesive achievements in video game history, and certainly my personal favourite.

But it's half three in the morning and I'm going to sleep.

I'd be interested in reading that because I think you're way overselling it. It's pretty good but not that good, not even the best SMT title in recent years let alone JRPGs in general.

penev10

snausages wrote: »

not even the best SMT title in recent years

Which one do you think is better? Devil Survivor arguably has the better combat system but as an overall game P4 ticks all the boxes imo.

snausages

Well when I say recent years I kind of meant relative to when Persona 4 came out, which was 2008. So SMTIII Nocturne. That game blended intelligent narrative with a focus on the player's agency with immersive, deep RPG mechanics and a story that I genuinely think is beyond any other JRPG I've played. Has a touch of the Evangelion about it. For a ten year old game it's still visually very impressive. Also, Dante is in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy3ufqp3l10

Persona 4 is fun and quirky and much better than P3 imo but I kind of find myself mystified sometimes by the adulation it gets. Although it does deal with LGBT themes in a surprisingly effective way. Maybe that's why Kotaku love it so much lol

ShadowHearth

I have no CLUE, what makes a good JRPG. I just sort of fancy P4 after I finally gave it a shot. It is really fun to play RPG as by the looks of it proper RPGs going the Horror survival way lately, so not much modern stuff out there.

johnny_ultimate

snausages wrote: »

I'd be interested in reading that because I think you're way overselling it. It's pretty good but not that good, not even the best SMT title in recent years let alone JRPGs in general.

An abridged version is the best I can do at the moment!

Firstly, narrative: Persona 4 is an elegant combination of the creators' story and the player's own adventure. There's the core plot, which is effectively pre-set and unchangeable (if I recall, the

'guess the murderer'

section is the only bit where it can diverge into two paths, and one is very clearly the wrong one). It's a rollicking fantasy yarn, full of well-defined characters, a compelling main mystery, lots of humour and lots of emotion. Not perfect, rather text heavy, but a pretty damn good video game story on those terms.

But it offers more than those terms. While the macro is terrifically entertaining, where Persona 4 excels is the micro. It's the world-building, the small details, the path you as the MC choose to make as you travel through the story. Inaba feels alive - from the ramen restaurant to the school to Junes, it's a place full of detail you're invited to explore at your leisure. It's not the grandest video game environment ever coded, and most environments are just a single room (typically barely interactive) but it is a tremendously convincing, homely location. And it elegantly ties into the gameplay - how individual locations and places serve your needs in the game's 'other half', providing the tools and experience you need to tackle the dungeons and combat in a way that achieves an inspired balance between naturalism and artificiality. It's a video gamey environment, no doubt, but one that over the course of 70 hours very much feels like home, remaining grounded in a recognisable reality (and, if you've ever visited a small Japanese town, it's right on the money).

Then there's the characters. What an inspired cast the game offers, all unique and beautifully written, many with character depths explored through the gameplay itself (more on that below). The game trusts you to get to know who you want to with the limited time available, encouraging you to pursue the subplots and characters that interest you. Don't care for the mother at the daycare centre or Naoki on the medical team? Then you choose another path, as it's your game. The game does require you to make tough choices, and it's effectively impossible to see all the content the game has to offer. But that's why it's so effective - it's a game where both your decisions and time need to be carefully measured in order to achieve your personal goals. What's more valuable to you: improving a specific social link, buffing up your stats or are you simply curious to see what the story is what that mysterious fox? The choice is yours, and helps the player feel they have some important agency in events even when the main plot is very much the creator's vision. Persona 4 is what the player makes it, as are the characters - you can rush through it, ignoring the reams optional content, but it is a game that always rewards the player's patience, curiosity and engaged participation.

What those aforementioned choices do, more so than pretty much any other game I can think of, is tie in with the way you fight. It's easy to look at the narrative, social and dungeon crawling aspects of the game as separate entities, but that would underwrite how cohesively they gel together. You have control over what type of fighting style you develop, and that's heavily determined by how you choose to spend your free time. If you're unlucky, of course, you might be stuck with a dud social link if you want to develop a specific arcana, but Persona 4's greatest trick, more so than the previous games, is how the deceptively disparate system interplay in ways both subtle and obvious. If you're actively participating in the game's systems, you're effectively building and personalising your characters stats through your friendships, hobbies and activities. The MC is a blank slate, and it's up to you to develop him both as a person and a fighter. Forget Commander Shepard - I've never felt in control of a character as fully as I have in Persona 4. It's why the anime lacks that extra spark - if the game makers have done their job right (and of course one person's masterpiece is another's bore, so I'm only speaking from personal experience here) the player will be truly invested in the main character, even as they're traveling down a predetermined path.

Whereas Persona 3's randomised, grueling Tartarus betrayed the roots of the series as a hardcore dungeon crawler first and foremost, Persona 4 manages to justify its own dungeon crawling narratively without betraying the series' origins. Now the dungeons are psychological manifestations, cleverly defined by the mechanisms of the fantastical narrative and the traits and fears of individual characters and fitting into the game's - and indeed the series' - main thematic concerns of identity, self-discovery etc... These are elements that were there before, but here they're brought to true fruition, contextualising the familiar elements in a fresh and engaging way while achieving further harmony between several very different gameplay systems. It's all undoubtedly contrived in the way only video games are, but it's a hugely impressive way of tying all Persona's long-gestating systems together. Here again we see narrative and gameplay not as divided entities, but a single whole. Persona 3 introduced much of this, and not to belittle it as it's an absolutely fantastic game with so much to love. But Persona 4 is an inspired refinement, with the rough edges (say, the maddeningly obtuse epilogue unlocking system) very minor concerns when the overall work is so finely honed.

And just a quick note on the aesthetics - whether it's the multicolour menus, the distinctive character designs, the visually vibrant battle sequences or Shoji Meguro's incredibly rich soundtrack, it all again comes together to help conjure up this consistent, lively, involved and credible world. Video gaming criticism hasn't quite found its own 'auteur theory' language yet, but Persona 4 is a great place to start - and not just one person's vision, but the work of a creative team working in harmony with each other to help create visuals, sound, characters, narrative and gameplay that all come together like an elaborate jigsaw puzzle. And more than anything - whether it's the exciting aesthetics, the urgent battling, the range of fascinating story arcs, subject matter rarely covered in games, or the ever clicking clock (has time in a game ever been such a valuable resource?) - it's all designed to ensure that we, the players, are drawn almost completely into the world of Inaba. For me, anyway, it worked a treat.

Retr0gamer

Persona 4 is wonderful and it's good to see another convert. JRPGs aren't just Final Fantasy and Final Fantasy isn't even the best the genre has to offer. With Persona 4 you get the some of the best.

BTW, you're not only playing a JRPG but a dating sim

As for the emo teen stuff, that stuff isn't in Persona. What I like about Persona is that despite it featuring teenagers it's so well written that they act like real teenagers unlike the unlikeable emo twats in Final Fantasy.

The battle system is fantastic as well. Like all Shin Megami Tensei games you are aiming to finish the enemies off in one round. If it goes over one round you are in trouble. The worse thing about less JRPGs is the battle systems drag out and it ruins the pace of the game.

So yeah for me it's far and away the best RPG in the last 10 years.

snausages

Thanks for that, and I agree the dungeons are an inspired deviation from the standard dungeon-romp that SMT usually goes for. For me though the social links are just another form of grinding. It's the point where I find it hard to join in all the love, I just find it very tedious. I don't like the stark disconnect between the social links you form with your allies and the way they interact with you in the main story.

johnny_ultimate

Certainly, that's a valid criticism, and something I'd like to see developed more in Persona 5 (I must stress for all the nice things, there's always improvements to be made). But I also love the little details included as the main narrative rolls on. A memorable sequence in both Persona 3 and 4 is

right before you embark on your final battle, and share a quiet moment with your best friend or romantic interest before **** truly hits the fan. Or your social links inspiring you to make that final push.

CiDeRmAn

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I have no CLUE, what makes a good JRPG. I just sort of fancy P4 after I finally gave it a shot. It is really fun to play RPG as by the looks of it proper RPGs going the Horror survival way lately, so not much modern stuff out there.

I'd be the same, I have no idea about jrpg as a genre.
I have a good number of then on all manner of formats but never got into any of them.
Actually my son has played more of them, Ni no kuni, DQ8 and 9 and so on.
I always wanted to get into the Disgea games too, some day...

krudler

Are you better to let your party make their own decisions or control everyone? Am a bit stuck on the first dungeon boss as I've hardly any SP left and no items to boost it. I have a save file just before the dungeon so I might just restart that and not be so wasteful with skill attacks on lower enemies.

johnny_ultimate

Control them yourself, no doubt about it, it gives you so much more flexibility in battle as long as you understand the systems. It was the single most important gameplay change compared to 3, which had AI companions you had to rely on with only some general instructions.

Retr0gamer

krudler wrote: »

Are you better to let your party make their own decisions or control everyone? Am a bit stuck on the first dungeon boss as I've hardly any SP left and no items to boost it. I have a save file just before the dungeon so I might just restart that and not be so wasteful with skill attacks on lower enemies.

The first boss is a baptism of fire. Shin Megami Tensei games aren't really about grinding though, they are about choosing the right demons and having the right strategy. What you need to do is have you party member that is weak to fire guard before the boss gets below half health. When that happens it will unleash that annoying fire based attack. If it hits when she isn't guarding the boss will double up on it and destroy you. Just keep her guarding the whole time.

krudler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The first boss is a baptism of fire. Shin Megami Tensei games aren't really about grinding though, they are about choosing the right demons and having the right strategy. What you need to do is have you party member that is weak to fire guard before the boss gets below half health. When that happens it will unleash that annoying fire based attack. If it hits when she isn't guarding the boss will double up on it and destroy you. Just keep her guarding the whole time.

Yeah the standard battles are mostly a formality up to that point give or take but then the difficulty ramps up a fair bit. I'll have to look into the whole fusing personas aspect more too.

Retr0gamer

krudler wrote: »

Yeah the standard battles are mostly a formality up to that point give or take but then the difficulty ramps up a fair bit. I'll have to look into the whole fusing personas aspect more too.

You should always be fusing all the time. It's not like Pokemon where you keep you critters with you all the time. Higher level personas give your character higher stat boosts when equipped so you should keep fusing to make higher level personas.

ShadowHearth

Got to my first "are you you taking a complete piss!!!!" Moments.

Not really a spoiler as it is first optional boss. Its that King in castle. Complete piss take. Even after reading about it online it says " if you lucky you beat it", now that's a fantastic game mechanic...

I managed to get him to 30℅, but sooner or later he does that rampage move, which just one shots most of your party and thats/with evasion buffs up. Complete bull****. I know I am not underleveled as I have cleared castle few times already and got good few levels and personas levelled up.

Will try again few times, if I won't beat it, I will just skip the asshole.

snausages

When in doubt, fuse.

Retr0gamer

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Got to my first "are you you taking a complete piss!!!!" Moments.

Not really a spoiler as it is first optional boss. Its that King in castle. Complete piss take. Even after reading about it online it says " if you lucky you beat it", now that's a fantastic game mechanic...

I managed to get him to 30℅, but sooner or later he does that rampage move, which just one shots most of your party and thats/with evasion buffs up. Complete bull****. I know I am not underleveled as I have cleared castle few times already and got good few levels and personas levelled up.

Will try again few times, if I won't beat it, I will just skip the asshole.

He is optional you know. Those bosses are only there for people that really know the SMT mechanics. I wouldn't even try them if you are a newbie.

SMT is different from other RPGs in that status buffs and debuffs are super important for tough boss fights. I'd say you'd want to be buffing the entire parties defense and debuffing his attack to stand a chance against him.

My advice, don't bother with the optional bosses.

Blatter

Did most people play this on normal or hard?

Finished it on normal a few months ago and thought it was a decent challenge, was thinking about playing it again on hard but feel that might be far too time consuming!

ShadowHearth

Retr0gamer wrote: »

He is optional you know. Those bosses are only there for people that really know the SMT mechanics. I wouldn't even try them if you are a newbie.

SMT is different from other RPGs in that status buffs and debuffs are super important for tough boss fights. I'd say you'd want to be buffing the entire parties defense and debuffing his attack to stand a chance against him.

My advice, don't bother with the optional bosses.

I do the hit/evasion debuff on him to get crit strikes and hit evasion buff on my own party. Works like a charm up until he does "zero ****s given" attack which in my last try one shoted every single party member with 3 of them having evasion buffs.
Even after reading the tactic on him, its said that its a boss where you need luck to get him. Sounds like a very stupid design choice for boss. I hope its not an often design later on.

I do manage to get him to 50%-70% but his only ass move always leaves me ****ed later on in fight.

snausages

Do they mean you need a decent luck stat to beat him?

Retr0gamer

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I do the hit/evasion debuff on him to get crit strikes and hit evasion buff on my own party. Works like a charm up until he does "zero ****s given" attack which in my last try one shoted every single party member with 3 of them having evasion buffs.
Even after reading the tactic on him, its said that its a boss where you need luck to get him. Sounds like a very stupid design choice for boss. I hope its not an often design later on.

I do manage to get him to 50%-70% but his only ass move always leaves me ****ed later on in fight.

You're strategy is all wrong. Buffing evasion will get you a few extra attacks when the boss misses but it won't protect you. You need to debuff the bosses attack and buff your own defense otherwise you'll die. If your strategy isn't working it's because your strategy is wrong no point trying it multiple times.

As for the faq writer saying it's just luck, a lot of faq writers aren't very good so don't take their word as gospel. The evasion strategy obviously isn't working you need to try something else.

ShadowHearth

Got the bastard. Finally. Though close call!

I kept on the ball with hit/evasion debuff on him and buffing my own party. Used my own character and chie to hammer the decker down and yukiko to heal up.

Looks like as soon as he comes out of the debuff he goes for rampage.

Glico Man

I often take the approach of using Rakunda to take down the enemies defense for 3 rounds, and buffing the attack of the person I'll be leading the attack with, with Tarukaja. Depending on your own Persona, I'd often give the Tarukaja boost to Yosuke or Chie to increase the amount of damage their physical attack does.

tok9

Blatter wrote: »

Did most people play this on normal or hard?

Finished it on normal a few months ago and thought it was a decent challenge, was thinking about playing it again on hard but feel that might be far too time consuming!

I played it on hard and regretted it a small bit.

Loved the game but I found I had to do a bit of grinding. The one good thing was I could beat the rare monsters pretty easily in one of thre dungeons so that brought me up a bit.

For P5 or if I replay P4, I'll be going normal.