So many non-native conifers trees planted.

fergus1001

magicbastarder wrote: »

http://www.coillte.ie/aboutcoillte/news/article/view/coillte-reports-operating-profit-before-exceptional-items-of-EUR35m-for-2012/

where is the other €1.965bn coming from if the largest player in the market by far only pulled in €35m in 2012?
plus, their turnover is about a quarter of a billion. what time frame were you talking about when you mentioned the €2bn?

it seems to me that making a profit of €35m out of 10% of the surface area of the country is not exactly value for money for the taxpayer.
they've nearly half a million hectares planted, according to wikipedia - so that's a profit of maybe €70 per hectare per year.

Sawmills
Exports
Private forestry
Agro forestry


Sawmills being the biggest player

This was 2006
"In 2006, an analysis of the socio-economic contribution of forestry in Ireland was undertaken by Ní Duibháin et al. The report looked at data on the direct, indirect and induced impact of forestry at regional level and undertook three case studies on the perceived benefits or disadvantages of forestry at local level. Using the multipliers and 2003 data the overall value of forestry to the Irish Economy is estimated to be €472 million and 7,182 in terms of employment. However, there may be some overlap with employment in wood processing, where 12,246 full-time equivalents were associated with three processing sectors (paperboards, sawmills and other wood products) and the related total expenditure (including direct and induced) amounted to €1.65 billion.

The employment multipliers are not unlike the 2004 findings by Bacon and Associates , which suggested that for every five jobs created in forestry, an additional three jobs are supported elsewhere in the economy, thus indicating that forestry supports something of the order of 16,000 jobs in the Irish economy"

Forestry was the only sector that kept growing through 2008 onwards that's where the 2 billion comes from

"Irish Economy: The Irish Forestry and Forest Products Association (IFFPA), a branch of IBEC, today published its 2012 Annual Review. The report claims that in 2010, the sector was worth €2.2bn to the Irish economy. In 2011, 77% of the forest products which were manufactured in Ireland were exported. These exports were worth €286m. "
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1024883.shtml

Kess73

Mod Post: Try to keep the thread on topic please.

If a broader discussion on forestry is wanted/needed, then there is a dedicated forum where such a discussion could take place.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I have been monitoring a small mature spruce plantation nearby since early spring and I have to say so far the wildlife activity have been almost as good as in the mixed and deciduous woods. OK, the number of nests is not as high, as there is no shrubby understory but apart from that there is plenty going on with regards to birds, mammals and insects. Flora is by no means as diverse.

Cork boy 55

30% target for broadleaves thats pretty good in forestry programme
44,000 Ha thats 0,5% of republic

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Hayes Secures EU Approval for Forestry Programme

Highlights
€482M OF NEW INVESTMENT IN FORESTRY
44,000HA OF NEW FORESTS, 700KM OF NEW FOREST ROADS
20% HIGHER PREMIUM PAYMENTS, 5% HIGHER AFFORESTATION GRANTS, 14% HIGHER ROAD GRANTS
NEW SPECIES WITH ROTATIONS OF 10-15 YEARS
MORE NATIVE TREES

---

44,000HA OF NEW FORESTS, 700KM OF NEW FOREST ROADS

The programme aims to plant 6,000 ha of new forests in 2015, increasing to 8,310 by 2020. The target is to plant 30% of broadleaves. This level of broadleaf planting will be achieved by the requirement to plant 10% broadleaves in all new plantations where the site permits. Higher grants and premiums are also on offer for planting broadleaves. The new programme also aims to plant more diverse tree species. In this regard the new Forestry for Fibre Scheme introduces new eligible fast growing species such as eucalyptus and aspen. Furthermore higher increases in the premium rate have been applied to Scots pine and Douglas fir to encourage planting these important timber species.

---

MORE NATIVE TREES
The new forestry programme provides funding for the establishment of 2,700 ha of native woodlands. For the first time this category of planting has been integrated into the main afforestation scheme as opposed to being a standalone scheme. This approach will harness the potential that exists to plant native trees alongside more commercial species. Planting of Native woodland will, for the first time, be required along aquatic buffer zones in sensitive areas such as aquatic Special Areas of Conservation and fishery sensitive areas. Native woodlands are important for biodiversity and play an important role in helping to protect water quality by filtering sediment and slowing down runoff water from upland areas.

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2015/february/title,81095,en.html

Jayzesake

Scarlet Chilly Type wrote: »

I have been monitoring a small mature spruce plantation nearby since early spring and I have to say so far the wildlife activity have been almost as good as in the mixed and deciduous woods. OK, the number of nests is not as high, as there is no shrubby understory but apart from that there is plenty going on with regards to birds, mammals and insects. Flora is by no means as diverse.

I recently spent a few months working at a site in the middle of a conifer plantation, and would sometimes go for walks underneath the trees - tough going, with the branches dense and very low to the ground. One thing that really amazed me was the very high species diversity of fungi in the autumn, which seemed to be greater than native woods I'm familiar with. But in retrospect I wonder whether that was simply a case of there being such a dearth of everything else that the fungi were more evident?

I saw a Pine Marten nearby, and Buzzards were frequent (it was in the northern half of the country), and I'm sure there was plenty of other stuff I missed. There were however also native woods of varying types interspersed with the plantations, which would surely have been an attraction to wildlife.

But there is still no escaping the bottom line here, which is that a monocultural plantation cannot produce anything like the wealth of inter-species relationships that makes a healthy and complex woodland ecosystem. For example, how many phytophagous insects, an important food source for so many bird species, can derive sustenance from a Lodgepole Pine or a Spruce? Compare that to our native tree species, many of which have a list running into the hundreds each.

There is definitely a place for plantations of exotic timber in Ireland - we obviously need a source of timber for a whole variety of uses. But we should not overstate their value in biodiversity terms. It would be very strange if no fauna at all made use of conifer plantations in any way (for shelter, for e.g.), just as some species make use of buildings and other structures in the city.

We mustn't lose sight of the dire need for more of the once predominant natural habitat on this island: real wild (i.e. not planted) native woodland.

Birdnuts

Jayzesake wrote: »

I recently spent a few months working at a site in the middle of a conifer plantation, and would sometimes go for walks underneath the trees - tough going, with the branches dense and very low to the ground. One thing that really amazed me was the very high species diversity of fungi in the autumn, which seemed to be greater than native woods I'm familiar with. But in retrospect I wonder whether that was simply a case of there being such a dearth of everything else that the fungi were more evident?

I saw a Pine Marten nearby, and Buzzards were frequent (it was in the northern half of the country), and I'm sure there was plenty of other stuff I missed. There were however also native woods of varying types interspersed with the plantations, which would surely have been an attraction to wildlife.

But there is still no escaping the bottom line here, which is that a monocultural plantation cannot produce anything like the wealth of inter-species relationships that makes a healthy and complex woodland ecosystem. For example, how many phytophagous insects, an important food source for so many bird species, can derive sustenance from a Lodgepole Pine or a Spruce? Compare that to our native tree species, many of which have a list running into the hundreds each.

There is definitely a place for plantations of exotic timber in Ireland - we obviously need a source of timber for a whole variety of uses. But we should not overstate their value in biodiversity terms. It would be very strange if no fauna at all made use of conifer plantations in any way (for shelter, for e.g.), just as some species make use of buildings and other structures in the city.

We mustn't lose sight of the dire need for more of the once predominant natural habitat on this island: real wild (i.e. not planted) native woodland.

I think the biodiversity value of conifers would be improved hugely if they weren't planted so close together. These plantations should be designed like the type of natural pine woods you get in Eastern Europe and the US

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Birdnuts wrote: »

I think the biodiversity value of conifers would be improved hugely if they weren't planted so close together. These plantations should be designed like the type of natural pine woods you get in Eastern Europe and the US

I agree but it is about making money and growing a crop. We would have more biodiversity if we stop growing beef in favour of deciduous trees but that's not going to happen either.

Birdnuts

Scarlet Chilly Type wrote: »

I agree but it is about making money and growing a crop. .

Ok - but the quality of the timber that comes out of the typical conifer plantation here is very low grade and typically goes to make pulp/card board. Cos their grown so close together the side shoots die off quick and the trunk doesn't develope properly. Better grown trees would give added value.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Birdnuts wrote: »

Ok - but the quality of the timber that comes out of the typical conifer plantation here is very low grade and typically goes to make pulp/card board. Cos their grown so close together the side shoots die off quick and the trunk doesn't develope properly. Better grown trees would give added value.

Again, no argument from me but we have a crop planted by people who wanted quick return and knew they were growing for the lower end of the market. What I'm saying, I suppose, is that these plantations are just another form of farming that isn't as wildlife friendly as it could be. If we nature lovers had our way there'd be no intensive farming and the country would be nothing but bog and woodland with wild flowers on the margins.

magicbastarder

Birdnuts wrote: »

Cos their grown so close together the side shoots die off quick and the trunk doesn't develope properly. Better grown trees would give added value.

i thought that was deliberate - no side shoots means less knotty timber?
you'd get 'cleaner' timber from a long straight trunk with a high canopy.

Jayzesake

Scarlet Chilly Type wrote: »

Again, no argument from me but we have a crop planted by people who wanted quick return and knew they were growing for the lower end of the market. What I'm saying, I suppose, is that these plantations are just another form of farming that isn't as wildlife friendly as it could be. If we nature lovers had our way there'd be no intensive farming and the country would be nothing but bog and woodland with wild flowers on the margins.

Given the limited amount of land available, in Ireland and elsewhere, we (nature lovers) shouldn't necessarily be opposed to areas being set aside for highly intensive agriculture (on very fertile land) or forestry, although the way those areas interact with wildlife is still very important.

But what we should very definitely be arguing for are areas of very high biodiversity value elsewhere, particularly in those areas that are of very questionable value in agricultural terms. That means rich, self-formed (sometimes with a little help perhaps) natural habitats.

And, at the risk of repeating myself, wild, naturally regenerated, native woodland.

fergus1001

Trees are grown at 2x2m spacing to stop side branching, decrease knots and increase the strength of the timber (which is used to build your houses not just pulp !)

Biodiversity increases after second thinning