smallholding in ireland

randomperson12

the downfalll of smallholding in ireland is that you cant get small grants
hard to find machinery a nice massey 135 costs 4000 wich is a rip off
plus finding help
im talking about farms under 21 arcres

stoeger

randomperson12 wrote: »

the downfalll of smallholding in ireland is that you cant get small grants
hard to find machinery a nice massey 135 costs 4000 wich is a rip off
plus finding help
im talking about farms under 21 arcres

You don't have to buy massy you can get small tractors for handy money like a zetor 3511 or something like it €500 up

stoeger

randomperson12 wrote: »

the downfalll of smallholding in ireland is that you cant get small grants
hard to find machinery a nice massey 135 costs 4000 wich is a rip off
plus finding help
im talking about farms under 21 arcres

You don't have to buy massy you can get small tractors for handy money like a zetor 3511 or something like it €500 up

randomperson12

thanks for the advice

randomperson12

Why no Government Dept in existence for small land owners .......maybe an owner of 15 or 20 acres. no supports ...no help for to encourage the small man to progress and maybe eventually get bigger in an enterprising way........A Dutch man from Holland once told me that if they had even the area of CO LOUTH over in the Netherlands the would never be in debt at any time for the could supply flowers and bulbs to the World................Ireland wastes so much valuable land space, it is really a scandal.........unquote

Username John

randomperson12 wrote: »

Why no Government Dept in existence for small land owners .......maybe an owner of 15 or 20 acres. no supports ...no help for to encourage the small man to progress and maybe eventually get bigger in an enterprising way........A Dutch man from Holland once told me that if they had even the area of CO LOUTH over in the Netherlands the would never be in debt at any time for the could supply flowers and bulbs to the World................Ireland wastes so much valuable land space, it is really a scandal.........unquote

At 15 - 20 acres are you not a small farmer, not a small holder? If so would you receive SFP on the ground, if you purchased these with the land. If not, you could always purchase them now.

As for Ireland wasting valuable space - not sure what you mean.

bbam

randomperson12 wrote: »

Ireland wastes so much valuable land space, it is really a scandal

How do you classify waste ?
You'll find that in general land in Ireland is utilised to its potential.. What many don't realise is that there is an enourmos variance in the quality of lands within even short distances in Ireland, its quite unique..

Land you see which has low stocking densities probably is incapable of carrying the high stocking densities you see in Tipp or Cork..

Whole swathes of the country are incapable of growing crops on any scale that approaches commercially viable..

The quote from the netherlands, while may be correct for there, isnt true here, give him a county like Leitrim and I doubt he'll be supplying much other than fast grown spruce and St Brigids crosses from the rushes..

I would however agree that in general there is little support or even interest shown in small holdings here... but is that different anywhere?? In the UK would someone with 10 acres get extra help just because they are small ??

randomperson12

they get grants and stuff look at smallholder magazine.couk as an example

randomperson12

but you are right in some parts of england arent eligible for this stuff

Username John

randomperson12 wrote: »

they get grants and stuff look at smallholder magazine.couk as an example

Grants for what exactly?

OldRio

bbam wrote: »

How do you classify waste ?
You'll find that in general land in Ireland is utilised to its potential.. What many don't realise is that there is an enourmos variance in the quality of lands within even short distances in Ireland, its quite unique..

Land you see which has low stocking densities probably is incapable of carrying the high stocking densities you see in Tipp or Cork..

Whole swathes of the country are incapable of growing crops on any scale that approaches commercially viable..

The quote from the netherlands, while may be correct for there, isnt true here, give him a county like Leitrim and I doubt he'll be supplying much other than fast grown spruce and St Brigids crosses from the rushes..

I would however agree that in general there is little support or even interest shown in small holdings here... but is that different anywhere?? In the UK would someone with 10 acres get extra help just because they are small ??

Agreed. It's hard work trying to utilise the crap land here in Leitrim.
Drainage, drainage and more drainage is needed.
I have improved some of my land but Jaysus it's a struggle.
Great for the rushes.:D

reilig

randomperson12 wrote: »

they get grants and stuff look at smallholder magazine.couk as an example

Smallholders develop a smallholding to grow food for themselves and be more self sustainable. Farmers getting grants are producing food which is sold to the public - they receive grants for this food to allow them to sell is at very low cost - often below the cost of production. Grants ensure cheap food for consumers and ensure that there is a good supply.

If a smallholder is not selling unprocessed food to consumers why should they get grants?

Plenty of enterprise grants out there for smallholders through Leader.

bbam

reilig wrote: »

Plenty of enterprise grants out there for smallholders through Leader.

There are no funding opportunities with Leader, from what I've been told there is no point in applying until late 2014 onwards.

reilig

bbam wrote: »

There are no funding opportunities with Leader, from what I've been told there is no point in applying until late 2014 onwards.

There were plenty up to now and there will be loads in late 2014. It takes 6 months to put a proposal together. Lots of time for the OP to get it up and running if he wishes.

randomperson12

OldRio wrote: »

Agreed. It's hard work trying to utilise the crap land here in Leitrim.
Drainage, drainage and more drainage is needed.
I have improved some of my land but Jaysus it's a struggle.
Great for the rushes.:D

we have one field with rushes and it very mucky and a pond appears every winter in the corner witch is one of the gateways into that field
its very scrubby and not much wildlife unly fox few birds and an pheasent#

randomperson12

reilig wrote: »

Smallholders develop a smallholding to grow food for themselves and be more self sustainable. Farmers getting grants are producing food which is sold to the public - they receive grants for this food to allow them to sell is at very low cost - often below the cost of production. Grants ensure cheap food for consumers and ensure that there is a good supply.

If a smallholder is not selling unprocessed food to consumers why should they get grants?

Plenty of enterprise grants out there for smallholders through Leader.

alot of the faarmers yure talking about are the real deal but there a lot of
people that barely need grants a such so there should 2 or three smallholding schemes

marizpan

I don't understand why you think smallholders need their own schemes.

They get the same as everyone else, based on hectares . Is this not the fairest method?
Why fund a non-commercial acivity?
We produce much of our food etc ourselves but we would never expect a grant for it. We benefit by eating high quality food and by having a reduced shopping bill.

There are schemes for dissadvantaged marginal land and schemes in place to support/encourage artisan food production etc.

There is plenty of support available, but no government is going to pay a person to work a small piece of land for their own table.
Maybe I have misunderstand the OP question!

randomperson12

ye dont understand the small holder farms small and sells some of his food and keep some for their own consuntpion

randomperson12

we found out you need 19 sheep at least to get a grant all we need is 6 or 7

marizpan

randomperson12 wrote: »

ye dont understand the small holder farms small and sells some of his food and keep some for their own consuntpion

I do understand.
I do not think it is reasonable or fair for a government to give extra subsidies to a smallholding. It should be viable if its commercial or the owners should have another income/job to fund their lifestyle.

If they have a low income or have difficulty getting a job, then their are welfare supports.
But I believe a smallholding is unlikely to support a household nor should it ! they need outside income.

randomperson12

most people interested in smallholding dont have a job but there a few that do have a job and build it up very easy
and would be easy to have a scheme or two for animals and food plus enviroment one intergrated into aeos or reps. In england the have schemes for smallholding that are intergrated into the exixting ones and that means everyone gets something wheter their big or small
but they are once that are for smallholdings only

marizpan

To me, a smallholding is more of a hobby than a job/profession.
It is not going to pay its way other than a nice lifestyle and good food.
And not having an outside job/income but expecting a reasonable lifestyle is ?!? not realistic or reasonable

I do think requirements from the dept should be relaxed/changed for smallholders.
Examples.
We have to do an annual return for the 'farm' for nitrates/slurry.
Calculate the slurry produced by 8 hens, 2 pigs etc etc . It is a bit silly

randomperson12

im one person whoes trying to do it also getting some people to work for you is like hell juring the summer we got a person to clean up a
really bad drain and never came so on it was the same for the next 5 people we tried to get a small shed built but same deal again just as we were going to build it the cement messed up and the shed wasnt built next week it was raining 2013 was a bit tough but the weather was great

randomperson12

there should be a nsfa national small farmers asoiciation . The ifa is prety useles for farmers like us might be help to DESTRUCTIVE INDUSTRIALIST farmers.
our association would be for people who have animals and food etc and would suport smallholding and conservation plus other entreprises like goat farming and other stuff

Username John

randomperson12 wrote: »

im one person whoes trying to do it also getting some people to work for you is like hell juring the summer we got a person to clean up a
really bad drain and never came so on it was the same for the next 5 people we tried to get a small shed built but same deal again just as we were going to build it the cement messed up and the shed wasnt built next week it was raining 2013 was a bit tough but the weather was great

Hello random.

If you doing it commercially (as in trying to make a profit from it) then you should investigate the SFP
I say this as I gather from your posts that you may not have looked into it?

bbam

reilig wrote: »

There were plenty up to now and there will be loads in late 2014. It takes 6 months to put a proposal together. Lots of time for the OP to get it up and running if he wishes.

Indeed, and unless there are major changes it won't cover anything mainstream farming wise, nor most food processing.

randomperson12

funny the havent released info yet about new schemes

bbam

What the hell is a destructive industrialist farmer ??

Conmaicne Mara

bbam wrote: »

What the hell is a destructive industrialist farmer ??

Anyone with a landcruiser

randomperson12

bbam wrote: »

What the hell is a destructive industrialist farmer ??

its a farmer who does big farming and trys to buy every single centometre of land in their area and slaughters trees and hegerows and has to much money wich is no good to them there better off going on a holiday to namibia and trowing there money away

randomperson12

i d like to make money and put some of it back into the farm also smallholding is an english term for small farms of about 130 acres a real one is one with 15 or lese acreage

bbam

randomperson12 wrote: »

its a farmer who does big farming and trys to buy every single centometre of land in their area and slaughters trees and hegerows and has to much money wich is no good to them there better off going on a holiday to namibia and trowing there money away

thats a fair auld chip on the shoulder against large farming..

randomperson12

theres alot of those type of farmers around and then there the normal type of large farmer wich dont do the above

marizpan

randomperson12 wrote: »

theres alot of those type of farmers around and then there the normal type of large farmer wich dont do the above

I am confused. Are you talking about English or Irish farms?
Are your experiences based on Ireland or England ?
I think you will find that generally both countries farm very differently.
Irish has smaller more family farming no real corporate farms. We do very little tillage so mainly grass farming for beef/dairy.
This is a rambling confusing post op.

randomperson12

ireland

randomperson12

i m going to change the direction of this fourom a bit and focus it on the original topics

randomperson12

this year getting people to work for you was shocking there was so many lazy people we couldnt even clean out a drain or build a shed
thanks to that stupid hot weather we were better offa t 15 degreees al summer

bbam

No problems getting work done round here..

I find its easier to get stuff done when your not running round calling people lazy and landgrabbers and going on about how great the set up in the UK is, funny the way that sort of thing grates on people..

randomperson12

well we got alot of people to try to do jobs for us and the didnt bother coming and doing them people in youre area bbam probaly a better type of workers

OldRio

randomperson12 wrote: »

well we got alot of people to try to do jobs for us and the didnt bother coming and doing them people in youre area bbam probaly a better type of workers

Go on, I'll have a nibble.

If you want to employee people to do work for ye you must have money. No wonder you want a grant.
Most of us who have small amounts of land cannot afford to employee people and do all the work ourselves. It takes time and effort but what you get is reward. Throwing cash (your own or the governments) does not equate to good practice.

randomperson12

ya but we had a bit of money we were going to spend at least 500 to get the place cleaned up and running but like i said people in all of your communitys are probaly better workers

Username John

randomperson12 wrote: »

ya but we had a bit of money we were going to spend at least 500 to get the place cleaned up and running but like i said people in all of your communitys are probaly better workers

You may often be waiting for good people I find. But it depends in the job - building a wall can often wait, cutting silag can't

You have to be realistic too. You wanted a drain cleared and a shed built, an had 500 euro to spend? 500 doesn't go far, especially if you have to get machinery to clean a drain. A big machine could easily be 500 / day.

Anyways, maybe I am being harsh saying this, but maybe your attitude comes across in your dealings? (The things are better in the UK type thing you have put across on here)

randomperson12

the drain woyuld be cleaned out by a small rented out digger or a person with a digger it would cost about 200 n top of the 500
so it would be around a thousand to get the place going

marizpan

If you found that lots of people were too lazy to work for you , I'd bet the problem was you not them.
You will find one or two unreliable but not them all.
You either were not paying the going rate or are considered too difficult to bother with!
In small communities, if you have an 'attitude ' everyone will be aware of that in no time and will avoid you.
If I'm honest, you come across as a very unpleasant person on here and have a very strong ireland v England thing going on which will really grate on people.
It makes me want to say' if Ireland is so bad, go back to England were things are brilliant '.
The reality is every country has its pros and cons. While Ireland is mostly English speaking, it really has a very separate culture and history from England or Europe.
Ireland is not England, England is England.

randomperson12

marizpan wrote: »

If you found that lots of people were too lazy to work for you , I'd bet the problem was them.:corrected:
You will find one or two unreliable but not them all.
You either were not paying the going rate or are considered too difficult to bother with!
In small communities, if you have an 'attitude ' everyone will be aware of that in no time and will avoid you.
If I'm honest, you come across as a very unpleasant person on here and have a very strong ireland v England thing going on which will really grate on people.
It makes me want to say' if Ireland is so bad, go back to England were things are brilliant '.
The reality is every country has its pros and cons. While Ireland is mostly English speaking, it really has a very separate culture and history from England or Europe.
Ireland is not England, England is England.

we even got people from other areas in galway and offaly same big deal again and they werent in our community plus very little people around my area can do those kind of things so wed nearly be better off doing t ourselves but its hard to do it ourselves i would have liked a few people to work for us cleaning out sheds cutting trees etc even some of the people we offered them work for a while ran of like egits to england and etc other countrys and got no job we could have also gave them a nice dinner too only they never came same thing again this was mostly in the summer and coming into the winter shocking isnt it

marizpan

Were you willing to pay the going rate?

I have never experienced what you have described.

randomperson12

ya but they never came back to do the work or get paid.. the sheds are diffrent story the shed was to dear 2000 euro so were getting local to build it

J.O. Farmer

randomperson12 wrote: »

ya but they never came back to do the work or get paid.. the sheds are diffrent story the shed was to dear 2000 euro so were getting local to build it

Maybe I'm wrong but was it hard labour you wanted the lazy people to do. Cleaning sheds with a grape and the like. If it's a job for machinery it's the local contractor you need to see and in my experience they're not lazy.
If it's a job for manual labour you need to pay a fair rate. The best part of €100 a day would be needed for a good lad.

Muckit

I can't figure out if this fella has had 12 drinks or is 12 years old ...............
or is just an annoying see you next Tuesday

randomperson12

i dont mean big sheds i mean old stables and cow sheds small like the the original sheds
also most of the people we tried to get didnt even come to our place and look at the sheds
and a hundred or less is around the price they wanted for the job .so i spent a good week of the summer and i did the job myself butthers one shed that we couldnt clean out because we didndt have the tools because the lock in our shed seized. the drain is really bad nowand its turning into a small stream river the rushy field is very bad were annoyed more about the drain
because yould get sucked into a swallow hole etc get stuck or worse drown if you went near parts of the drain it was always like this since 1990s but it got worse from the storm

randomperson12

this is officialy a smalllholding issues post i dont mean fourom or sticky etc