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smallholding in ireland

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  • 16-12-2013 10:18pm
    #1
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭


    the downfalll of smallholding in ireland is that you cant get small grants
    hard to find machinery a nice massey 135 costs 4000 wich is a rip off
    plus finding help
    im talking about farms under 21 arcres


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    #2
    stoeger
    Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭stoeger


    randomperson12 wrote: »
    the downfalll of smallholding in ireland is that you cant get small grants
    hard to find machinery a nice massey 135 costs 4000 wich is a rip off
    plus finding help
    im talking about farms under 21 arcres

    You don't have to buy massy you can get small tractors for handy money like a zetor 3511 or something like it €500 up


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    #3
    stoeger
    Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭stoeger


    randomperson12 wrote: »
    the downfalll of smallholding in ireland is that you cant get small grants
    hard to find machinery a nice massey 135 costs 4000 wich is a rip off
    plus finding help
    im talking about farms under 21 arcres

    You don't have to buy massy you can get small tractors for handy money like a zetor 3511 or something like it €500 up


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    #4
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    thanks for the advice


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    #5
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    Why no Government Dept in existence for small land owners .......maybe an owner of 15 or 20 acres. no supports ...no help for to encourage the small man to progress and maybe eventually get bigger in an enterprising way........A Dutch man from Holland once told me that if they had even the area of CO LOUTH over in the Netherlands the would never be in debt at any time for the could supply flowers and bulbs to the World................Ireland wastes so much valuable land space, it is really a scandal.........unquote


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    #6
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    randomperson12 wrote: »
    Why no Government Dept in existence for small land owners .......maybe an owner of 15 or 20 acres. no supports ...no help for to encourage the small man to progress and maybe eventually get bigger in an enterprising way........A Dutch man from Holland once told me that if they had even the area of CO LOUTH over in the Netherlands the would never be in debt at any time for the could supply flowers and bulbs to the World................Ireland wastes so much valuable land space, it is really a scandal.........unquote

    At 15 - 20 acres are you not a small farmer, not a small holder? If so would you receive SFP on the ground, if you purchased these with the land. If not, you could always purchase them now.

    As for Ireland wasting valuable space - not sure what you mean.


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    #7
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    randomperson12 wrote: »
    Ireland wastes so much valuable land space, it is really a scandal

    How do you classify waste ?
    You'll find that in general land in Ireland is utilised to its potential.. What many don't realise is that there is an enourmos variance in the quality of lands within even short distances in Ireland, its quite unique..

    Land you see which has low stocking densities probably is incapable of carrying the high stocking densities you see in Tipp or Cork..

    Whole swathes of the country are incapable of growing crops on any scale that approaches commercially viable..

    The quote from the netherlands, while may be correct for there, isnt true here, give him a county like Leitrim and I doubt he'll be supplying much other than fast grown spruce and St Brigids crosses from the rushes..

    I would however agree that in general there is little support or even interest shown in small holdings here... but is that different anywhere?? In the UK would someone with 10 acres get extra help just because they are small ??


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    #8
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    they get grants and stuff look at smallholder magazine.couk as an example


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    #9
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    but you are right in some parts of england arent eligible for this stuff


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    #10
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    randomperson12 wrote: »
    they get grants and stuff look at smallholder magazine.couk as an example

    Grants for what exactly?


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    #11
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,978 ✭✭✭OldRio


    bbam wrote: »
    How do you classify waste ?
    You'll find that in general land in Ireland is utilised to its potential.. What many don't realise is that there is an enourmos variance in the quality of lands within even short distances in Ireland, its quite unique..

    Land you see which has low stocking densities probably is incapable of carrying the high stocking densities you see in Tipp or Cork..

    Whole swathes of the country are incapable of growing crops on any scale that approaches commercially viable..

    The quote from the netherlands, while may be correct for there, isnt true here, give him a county like Leitrim and I doubt he'll be supplying much other than fast grown spruce and St Brigids crosses from the rushes..

    I would however agree that in general there is little support or even interest shown in small holdings here... but is that different anywhere?? In the UK would someone with 10 acres get extra help just because they are small ??

    Agreed. It's hard work trying to utilise the crap land here in Leitrim.
    Drainage, drainage and more drainage is needed.
    I have improved some of my land but Jaysus it's a struggle.
    Great for the rushes.:D


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    #12
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    randomperson12 wrote: »
    they get grants and stuff look at smallholder magazine.couk as an example

    Smallholders develop a smallholding to grow food for themselves and be more self sustainable. Farmers getting grants are producing food which is sold to the public - they receive grants for this food to allow them to sell is at very low cost - often below the cost of production. Grants ensure cheap food for consumers and ensure that there is a good supply.

    If a smallholder is not selling unprocessed food to consumers why should they get grants?

    Plenty of enterprise grants out there for smallholders through Leader.


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    #13
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    reilig wrote: »
    Plenty of enterprise grants out there for smallholders through Leader.

    There are no funding opportunities with Leader, from what I've been told there is no point in applying until late 2014 onwards.


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    #14
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    bbam wrote: »
    There are no funding opportunities with Leader, from what I've been told there is no point in applying until late 2014 onwards.

    There were plenty up to now and there will be loads in late 2014. It takes 6 months to put a proposal together. Lots of time for the OP to get it up and running if he wishes.


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    #15
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    OldRio wrote: »
    Agreed. It's hard work trying to utilise the crap land here in Leitrim.
    Drainage, drainage and more drainage is needed.
    I have improved some of my land but Jaysus it's a struggle.
    Great for the rushes.:D

    we have one field with rushes and it very mucky and a pond appears every winter in the corner witch is one of the gateways into that field
    its very scrubby and not much wildlife unly fox few birds and an pheasent#


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    #16
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    reilig wrote: »
    Smallholders develop a smallholding to grow food for themselves and be more self sustainable. Farmers getting grants are producing food which is sold to the public - they receive grants for this food to allow them to sell is at very low cost - often below the cost of production. Grants ensure cheap food for consumers and ensure that there is a good supply.

    If a smallholder is not selling unprocessed food to consumers why should they get grants?

    Plenty of enterprise grants out there for smallholders through Leader.

    alot of the faarmers yure talking about are the real deal but there a lot of
    people that barely need grants a such so there should 2 or three smallholding schemes


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    #17
    marizpan
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭marizpan


    I don't understand why you think smallholders need their own schemes.

    They get the same as everyone else, based on hectares . Is this not the fairest method?
    Why fund a non-commercial acivity?
    We produce much of our food etc ourselves but we would never expect a grant for it. We benefit by eating high quality food and by having a reduced shopping bill.

    There are schemes for dissadvantaged marginal land and schemes in place to support/encourage artisan food production etc.

    There is plenty of support available, but no government is going to pay a person to work a small piece of land for their own table.
    Maybe I have misunderstand the OP question!


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    #18
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    ye dont understand the small holder farms small and sells some of his food and keep some for their own consuntpion


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    #19
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    we found out you need 19 sheep at least to get a grant all we need is 6 or 7


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    #20
    marizpan
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭marizpan


    randomperson12 wrote: »
    ye dont understand the small holder farms small and sells some of his food and keep some for their own consuntpion

    I do understand.
    I do not think it is reasonable or fair for a government to give extra subsidies to a smallholding. It should be viable if its commercial or the owners should have another income/job to fund their lifestyle.

    If they have a low income or have difficulty getting a job, then their are welfare supports.
    But I believe a smallholding is unlikely to support a household nor should it ! they need outside income.


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    #21
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    most people interested in smallholding dont have a job but there a few that do have a job and build it up very easy
    and would be easy to have a scheme or two for animals and food plus enviroment one intergrated into aeos or reps. In england the have schemes for smallholding that are intergrated into the exixting ones and that means everyone gets something wheter their big or small
    but they are once that are for smallholdings only


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    #22
    marizpan
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭marizpan


    To me, a smallholding is more of a hobby than a job/profession.
    It is not going to pay its way other than a nice lifestyle and good food.
    And not having an outside job/income but expecting a reasonable lifestyle is ?!? not realistic or reasonable

    I do think requirements from the dept should be relaxed/changed for smallholders.
    Examples.
    We have to do an annual return for the 'farm' for nitrates/slurry.
    Calculate the slurry produced by 8 hens, 2 pigs etc etc . It is a bit silly


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    #23
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    im one person whoes trying to do it also getting some people to work for you is like hell juring the summer we got a person to clean up a
    really bad drain and never came so on it was the same for the next 5 people we tried to get a small shed built but same deal again just as we were going to build it the cement messed up and the shed wasnt built next week it was raining 2013 was a bit tough but the weather was great


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    #24
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    there should be a nsfa national small farmers asoiciation . The ifa is prety useles for farmers like us might be help to DESTRUCTIVE INDUSTRIALIST farmers.
    our association would be for people who have animals and food etc and would suport smallholding and conservation plus other entreprises like goat farming and other stuff


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    #25
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    randomperson12 wrote: »
    im one person whoes trying to do it also getting some people to work for you is like hell juring the summer we got a person to clean up a
    really bad drain and never came so on it was the same for the next 5 people we tried to get a small shed built but same deal again just as we were going to build it the cement messed up and the shed wasnt built next week it was raining 2013 was a bit tough but the weather was great

    Hello random.

    If you doing it commercially (as in trying to make a profit from it) then you should investigate the SFP
    I say this as I gather from your posts that you may not have looked into it?


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    #26
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    reilig wrote: »
    There were plenty up to now and there will be loads in late 2014. It takes 6 months to put a proposal together. Lots of time for the OP to get it up and running if he wishes.

    Indeed, and unless there are major changes it won't cover anything mainstream farming wise, nor most food processing.


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    #27
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    funny the havent released info yet about new schemes


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    #28
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    What the hell is a destructive industrialist farmer ??


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    #29
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    bbam wrote: »
    What the hell is a destructive industrialist farmer ??

    Anyone with a landcruiser :D


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    #30
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    bbam wrote: »
    What the hell is a destructive industrialist farmer ??

    its a farmer who does big farming and trys to buy every single centometre of land in their area and slaughters trees and hegerows and has to much money wich is no good to them there better off going on a holiday to namibia and trowing there money away


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    #31
    randomperson12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 226 ✭✭randomperson12


    i d like to make money and put some of it back into the farm also smallholding is an english term for small farms of about 130 acres a real one is one with 15 or lese acreage


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