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Water Charges / Tax / Demonstrations / Irish Water / Meter Installations etc etc

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    #692
    Kazuma
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Kazuma


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Off topic but I'd love to know how that's a licence and not lease! Does a landlord live there or have access to the private areas?

    Sounds like the landlords have messed this up by having such a complicated arrangement. Do all of the bills have the same WPRN? Might be worth sending IW off an email with a list of all the addresses/people affected if they're happy for you to do so.

    Edit: It sounds like there's actually only one property, and one mains access, if you look here does the house show up as one property or multiple?

    I believe the contract does indeed say the landlord can access any part of the house at any time (in order to keep it justified as a license, doesn't live there though) - really feels like they're trying to get the best of both worlds here though.

    My guess was that the landlords elected to have everyone register individually so that the entire lump sum for the house wouldn't be on their head (initially I assumed it was so that 'discount' for signing up for irish water would apply to each room rather than just one for the whole house).

    On the page you linked, it's marked as one property. Just a big red shape :P

    When I get home after work today I'll take a look at some of the bills and see if we have the same WPRN!
    Deleted User wrote: »
    There is a help page on Boards that might be able to help you http://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1643

    I failed to notice the Irish Water forum on my search, thanks for that!


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    #693
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Complexes tend to be one boundary but it would say the number of plans, or individual properties, in the boundary.


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    #694
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Kazuma wrote: »
    I believe the contract does indeed say the landlord can access any part of the house at any time (in order to keep it justified as a license, doesn't live there though) - really feels like they're trying to get the best of both worlds here though.
    Any clause like this in a contract can not remove or take away rights bestowed by the residential tenancies act.

    If the Landlord does not live in/on the premises than it is a shared house and would be covered by tenancy laws.
    My guess was that the landlords elected to have everyone register individually so that the entire lump sum for the house wouldn't be on their head (initially I assumed it was so that 'discount' for signing up for irish water would apply to each room rather than just one for the whole house).

    On the page you linked, it's marked as one property. Just a big red shape :P

    When I get home after work today I'll take a look at some of the bills and see if we have the same WPRN!



    I failed to notice the Irish Water forum on my search, thanks for that!

    My bet is there is some type of scam going on, either by the Landlord or by Irish Water as where there is only one water meter covering the whole property there can only be one bill.

    The fact ye all have separate bills means that ye are not in a house-share but technically in individual dwellings and are tenants rather than licensees.


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    #695
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    My wife just got off the phone with Irish Water. They've just sent us our second bill, and it's still unmetered, even though we've had a meter in place since about February.

    The person from Irish Water said that the first two bills are always unmetered (after first claiming we didn't have a meter), or something like that (this is third-hand information, as they wouldn't talk to me, so some nuances might have been lost), and they'd give us a rebate later in the year. He also said that the WPRN we had was a placeholder and gave us the real one over the phone.

    Is this remotely standard behaviour from IW? Not the evasion, if that is what it is, but the practice of sending out unmetered bills with dummy WPRNs without explanation and then rebating later.

    (They won't put my name on the bill with my wife's either, so she has to ring from work, where she has no privacy.)


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    #696
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    My wife just got off the phone with Irish Water. They've just sent us our second bill, and it's still unmetered, even though we've had a meter in place since about February.

    The person from Irish Water said that the first two bills are always unmetered (after first claiming we didn't have a meter), or something like that (this is third-hand information, as they wouldn't talk to me, so some nuances might have been lost), and they'd give us a rebate later in the year. He also said that the WPRN we had was a placeholder and gave us the real one over the phone.

    Is this remotely standard behaviour from IW? Not the evasion, if that is what it is, but the practice of sending out unmetered bills with dummy WPRNs without explanation and then rebating later.

    (They won't put my name on the bill with my wife's either, so she has to ring from work, where she has no privacy.)

    Bills are all unmetered now and capped for everyone. If you actually use less you will get a rebate later on.


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    #697
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    My wife just got off the phone with Irish Water. They've just sent us our second bill, and it's still unmetered, even though we've had a meter in place since about February.

    The person from Irish Water said that the first two bills are always unmetered (after first claiming we didn't have a meter), or something like that (this is third-hand information, as they wouldn't talk to me, so some nuances might have been lost), and they'd give us a rebate later in the year. He also said that the WPRN we had was a placeholder and gave us the real one over the phone.

    Is this remotely standard behaviour from IW? Not the evasion, if that is what it is, but the practice of sending out unmetered bills with dummy WPRNs without explanation and then rebating later.

    (They won't put my name on the bill with my wife's either, so she has to ring from work, where she has no privacy.)

    To my knowledge, what is correct is that if you become a metered customer and your first metered bills show that your average usage is below the cap, they will give you a refund towards a couple of your previous unmetered bills (not sure how far in the past they would go though).

    What seems rather strange is to say that you have had a meter for 6 months but your bills are still unmetered. Did the customer rep clearly acknowledge that you have had a functioning meter since February? If yes I would also question this ...


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    #698
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Bills are all unmetered now and capped for everyone. If you actually use less you will get a rebate later on.

    But I know people who have got bills considerably less than the sixty-odd quarterly maximum, and have water use on their bill. So their bills must be metered, no?


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    #699
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Bills are all unmetered now and capped for everyone. If you actually use less you will get a rebate later on.
    Except for the ones that are metered and you use less.


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    #700
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Bob24 wrote: »
    To my knowledge, what is correct is that if you become a metered customer and your first metered bills show that your average usage is below the cap, they will give you a refund towards a couple of your previous unmetered bills (not sure how far in the past they would go though).

    What seems rather strange is to say that you have had a meter for 6 months but your bills are still unmetered. Did the customer rep clearly acknowledge that you have had a functioning meter since February? If yes I would also question this ...


    From what my wife said (something might have been lost along the way), he said they weren't reading the meter yet. (He also said something odd about the meters being hard to find in the estate because there were so many of them.)

    However, I had a query (earlier in this thread) about llow water pressure just after the meter went in, and they emailed me after hassling them for a few weeks to say they'd checked the meter and it showed no leaks in my house, and no problem on their side.

    So they effectively said it was functional back then.


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    #701
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    But I know people who have got bills considerably less than the sixty-odd quarterly maximum, and have water use on their bill. So their bills must be metered, no?

    Yes. I don't have a meter myself, but from the bills that have been posted online, people with a meter should see their actual consumption on the bill as well as 2 amounts: the price it would have costed with that cap, and the actual price they have to pay (including the cap).


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    #702
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Just got the second bill there. Why in the name of god do they make these payable the day before pay day? I know its not a heap of money but it could easily be a struggle for many people to pay it just before they get their wage packet. Is everyone else's pay date the 27 th of this month?


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    #703
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Bills are all unmetered now and capped for everyone. If you actually use less you will get a rebate later on.
    That's not true. Our water is metered and both our billed were read metered bills. Billed approx €25 and approx €20 respectively for 2 adult and one child.


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    #704
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    From what my wife said (something might have been lost along the way), he said they weren't reading the meter yet. (He also said something odd about the meters being hard to find in the estate because there were so many of them.)

    However, I had a query (earlier in this thread) about llow water pressure just after the meter went in, and they emailed me after hassling them for a few weeks to say they'd checked the meter and it showed no leaks in my house, and no problem on their side.

    So they effectively said it was functional back then.

    Technically, what they said is possible. The meters allow wireless reads but the range is pretty short and they need someone to drive on your street every 3 months to get a reading. It is possible they installed the meter and did a first read to ensure it was working, but haven't yet included your area on the regular route of their reading crews.

    While it is technically possible, I don't know what their actual processes are and whether it is something they would do.


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    #705
    zl1whqvjs75cdy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭zl1whqvjs75cdy


    Sunny Dayz wrote: »
    That's not true. Our water is metered and both our billed were read metered bills. Billed approx €25 and approx €20 respectively for 2 adult and one child.

    Out of interest would you consider yourselves very water conservation conscious? That is considerably cheaper than I am paying (40 quid for one adult, unmetered).


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    #706
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Bob24 wrote: »
    Technically, what they said is possible. The meters allow wireless reads but the range is pretty short and they need someone to drive on your street every 3 months to get a reading. It is possible they installed the meter and did a first read to ensure it was working, but haven't yet included your area on the regular route of their reading crews.

    While it is technically possible, I don't know what their actual processes are and whether it is something they would do.
    That's very helpful. Thanks! My wife isn't all that technical, so it would be better if I were able to ring them, as I think I'm definitely not getting the whole story. The guy on the phone just now was adamant when my wife asked him that my name couldn't go on the bill with hers.


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    #707
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    That's very helpful. Thanks! My wife isn't all that technical, so it would be better if I were able to ring them, as I think I'm definitely not getting the whole story. The guy on the phone just now was adamant when my wife asked him that my name couldn't go on the bill with hers.

    No worries - yes I think unless both persons (customer and rep) are technical enough and full understand what they are talking about (which probably requires some luck with the rep you are connected to), it might be difficult to fully understand the situation :-)

    Refusing to add your name on the bills definitely seems very dodgy though (and probably not a sign the rep she was talking to is the most helpful).


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    #708
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    That's very helpful. Thanks! My wife isn't all that technical, so it would be better if I were able to ring them, as I think I'm definitely not getting the whole story. The guy on the phone just now was adamant when my wife asked him that my name couldn't go on the bill with hers.

    Contact them on their "Talk To" page here on Boards. http://www.boards.ie/ttforum/1643


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    #709
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Done.


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    #710
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    Out of interest would you consider yourselves very water conservation conscious? That is considerably cheaper than I am paying (40 quid for one adult, unmetered).
    No we aren't at all. When the first bill was issued to a work colleague I panicked as I had kinda forgotten that we would also be due a bill! Then worried when the second bill was due incase the first one was a mistake but doesn't appear so. No we haven't really watched our water usage although I have reduced down the amount of time I spend in the shower cos I used to spend ages in it. I think the bills are low because we both work full time, our son is in school and then after school care so we are only about in the evenings. Then at the weekends we are busy out and about so that probably helps.


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    #711
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,346 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Well they did have a few spelling errors on the second bill so maybe they have us down as 2 different addresses although I thought there was an address locator on the website.
    I can probably look forward to a litany of threatening letters then for not registering :pac:

    Another bill arrived for the previous tenant the other day. They include a due date to pay the bill by but there does not seem to be any consequences to ignoring this date.


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    #712
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,188 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »
    Out of interest would you consider yourselves very water conservation conscious? That is considerably cheaper than I am paying (40 quid for one adult, unmetered).

    My usage would be that low in winter when there's no garden watering going on. Two adults. Had one of the first meters installed and have been checking it from time to time before the billing started.


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    #713
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Sunny Dayz wrote: »
    No we aren't at all. When the first bill was issued to a work colleague I panicked as I had kinda forgotten that we would also be due a bill! Then worried when the second bill was due incase the first one was a mistake but doesn't appear so. No we haven't really watched our water usage although I have reduced down the amount of time I spend in the shower cos I used to spend ages in it. I think the bills are low because we both work full time, our son is in school and then after school care so we are only about in the evenings. Then at the weekends we are busy out and about so that probably helps.

    The bills are capped.. Why would you be expecting a big bill no matter how much water you use???


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    #714
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    aido79 wrote: »
    The bills are capped.. Why would you be expecting a big bill no matter how much water you use???

    Well because the first bill was lower than anyone else I had spoken to, I was worried they had made a mistake with it, even though it was read and in case they would find a mistake and correct it in our second billing. But no another small read bill so I won't complain. The child allowance really does help.


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    #715
    mel123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭mel123


    Apologies if this has been answered, but I havnt been following the thread and there is so much to read!

    A relative is selling off some properties that were being rented out. His solicitor has told him that the water charges need to be paid up in order to complete the sale, is this true? There has been no one living in them for a couple of months, so he cant recoup the money from the tenants, but I was just wondering if anyone has any concrete info on it? I wouldn't have thought this was necessary, if there was an outstanding SKY bill it wouldn't have to be paid by him, so whats the difference?


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    #716
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    To sell a property both water charges and property tax must be up to date.


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    #717
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    athtrasna wrote: »
    To sell a property both water charges and property tax must be up to date.
    Isn't it just a proposal at this stage? WRT water. Can't find anything in the Water Services Act 2014 about it, maybe it's in some property-selling act?


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    #718
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Isn't it just a proposal at this stage? WRT water. Can't find anything in the Water Services Act 2014 about it, maybe it's in some property-selling act?

    No. I know several people who've sold lately and it was a condition of sale.


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    #719
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    athtrasna wrote: »
    No. I know several people who've sold lately and it was a condition of sale.
    Any idea which act? And does it apply when the bill was unpaid by tenants?


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    #720
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,188 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Even if its not in legislation there's not a chance a competent solicitor on the buyers side wouldn't insist on it.


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    #721
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    L1011 wrote: »
    Even if its not in legislation there's not a chance a competent solicitor on the buyers side wouldn't insist on it.
    Of course, but that would seem that it's just the buyer's preference, there's currently no absolute requirement?


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