new building control regulations 2014

HoofRocks

With the new regulations coming in February 2014
How much of your house do you need to have started to be exempt from them

DOCARCH

Just started is enough, on or before March 1st.

...just to add, they are not new building regulations...just new building control regulations. The actual building regulations will stay the same, it's, very basically, the process of demonstrating compliance that will change.

ShadDixon

Good Question & it seems it's been answered by Docarch.

-ShadDixon

budgetbuilder

DOCARCH wrote: »

Just started is enough, on or before March 1st.

...just to add, they are not new building regulations...just new building control regulations. The actual building regulations will stay the same, it's, very basically, the process of demonstrating compliance that will change.

I was told by Wexford building control that as long as my commencment notice is in (and my "contributions" are paid) by the 1st of March and I pour the foundations within the 28 post commencment notice time limit I will be exempt. But I'd double check with your local building control as I suspect this will vary from council to council.

fclauson

budgetbuilder wrote: »

I was told by Wexford building control that as long as my commencment notice is in (and my "contributions" are paid) ...

Wexford offer a payment over a period for contributions - I think year in monthly instalments

cikearney

Any body know what will happen as there is no register of contractors and no finalised amendment.

We are due our PP on the 18th of feb,if all goes well, in how short of time can we commence our build. We are applying through Kildare county council.

DOCARCH

cikearney wrote: »

We are due our PP on the 18th of feb.

Notification of a decision or final decision/grant of permission?

BryanF

cikearney wrote: »

Any body know what will happen as there is no register of contractors and no finalised amendment.

We are due our PP on the 18th of feb,if all goes well, in how short of time can we commence our build. We are applying through Kildare county council.

14 days

Gumbo

cikearney wrote: »

Any body know what will happen as there is no register of contractors and no finalised amendment.

We are due our PP on the 18th of feb,if all goes well, in how short of time can we commence our build. We are applying through Kildare county council.

BryanF wrote: »

14 days

No, you are in under the new control regulations. Due decision on 18th February. 4 weeks from that you will get your final grant and then give 14 days commencement notice for sometime late march, early April.

In Dublin City, they are saying that the 14th February is the final date to lodge a commencement notice in order to get on site under the current control regulations with a start date of 28th February.

Madam41

My planning permission issued mid 2012. Commencement notice served prior to 1st of March 2014.

Do any of the changes to the building regulations(SI 8 of 2014) apply to me?

Do I just proceed with the traditional commencement notice? What about the Certificate of Compliance? if the house isn't finished until later this year, is a"traditional" format of Certificate of Compliance ok or does the new form have to be used?

Can I build by direct labour without needing any confirmations from builder/ tradesmen?

budgetbuilder

fclauson wrote: »

Wexford offer a payment over a period for contributions - I think year in monthly instalments

Thanks for that bit of information. I'll speak to them tomorow about it. It would be great to finally get moving on the foundations, if only the weather would cooperate.

4Sticks

Madam41 wrote: »

Commencement notice served prior to 1st of March 2014.

Do any of the changes to the building regulations(SI 8 of 2014) apply to me?

Do I just proceed with the traditional commencement notice? What about the Certificate of Compliance? if the house isn't finished until later this year, is a"traditional" format of Certificate of Compliance ok or does the new form have to be used?

Can I build by direct labour without needing any confirmations from builder/ tradesmen?

no
yes
yes/no
yes/no

Madam41

Thanks very much for your reply 4Sticks.

Presume then I don't need a chartered engineer, which seems to be needed under the new legislation.

hexosan

fclauson wrote: »

Wexford offer a payment over a period for contributions - I think year in monthly instalments

My mortgage company won't release the stage payments unless proof that the council contributions are paid in full. Payment plan agreed with and signed by the council finance dept was provided to the mortgage company but they rejected it.
Something for others to bear in mind.

4Sticks

Madam41 wrote: »

Thanks very much for your reply 4Sticks.

Presume then I don't need a chartered engineer, which seems to be needed under the new legislation.

BryanF

Madam41 wrote: »

Thanks very much for your reply 4Sticks.

Presume then I don't need a chartered engineer, which seems to be needed under the new legislation.

Ask your lender

DOCARCH

kceire wrote: »

...they are saying that the 14th February is the final date to lodge a commencement notice in order to get on site under the current control regulations with a start date of 28th February.

I hear (from reliable sources) today, that this may not be the case.

Apparently the DoE are to clarify this matter by the end of this week.

From what I have heard, 'old' commencement notices will be accepted up to and including Feb 28th, as, the S.I. does not come into effect until March 1st.

bartbu

What are the new regulations and what are the consequences of them to self builds? planning decision due tomorrow.. any hope of avoiding them?

BryanF

ring the Coucnil and ask them what date will be on your 'final grant', and report back.

Gumbo

bartbu wrote: »

What are the new regulations and what are the consequences of them to self builds? planning decision due tomorrow.. any hope of avoiding them?

What is due tomorrow?

• Notification of decision to grant

or

• Final grant of permission

BryanF

Self-builder/consumers: A silent majority self-builders account for over 60% of all homes completed in any year. As self-builders now need to employ a contractor as well as additional certifiers under SI9 they have to fork out an extra €23,000 per typical house for the privilege. Almost 13% extra on top of the construction cost. Every farmer who planned to build a house on his/her land for their children will be affected. Will become extinct after March 2014. Self-builders are no question the biggest losers.

source

4Sticks

bartbu wrote: »

any hope of avoiding them?

In a word - no . They kick in March 1st and you would need to be realistically ready to start before then.

HoofRocks

Wow hold up 23,000!!

If you have your commencement notice in what defines commenced? Would diging out and clearing the site qualify?

sydthebeat

HoofRocks wrote: »

Wow hold up 23,000!!

If you have your commencement notice in what defines commenced? Would diging out and clearing the site qualify?

if you can get your notice in, send it in.

4Sticks

HoofRocks wrote: »

Wow hold up 23,000!!

If you have your commencement notice in what defines commenced? Would diging out and clearing the site qualify?

Erect some signs and temp fencing etc place a site hut into position etc as a min.

budgetbuilder

sydthebeat wrote: »

if you can get your notice in, send it in.

According to enforcement at the county hall in Wexford, in order for them to consider work to have commenced, you need to have poured the foundations. Don't know if it is different from council to council though.

hexosan

budgetbuilder wrote: »

According to enforcement at the county hall in Wexford, in order for them to consider work to have commenced, you need to have poured the foundations. Don't know if it is different from council to council though.

Who's to say when the foundations were poured it's not like they come out and inspect anything.

Will23

DOCARCH wrote: »

I hear (from reliable sources) today, that this may not be the case.

Apparently the DoE are to clarify this matter by the end of this week.

From what I have heard, 'old' commencement notices will be accepted up to and including Feb 28th, as, the S.I. does not come into effect until March 1st.

any update on this DOCARCH? thanks.

Will.

bryaj

will your certifier not have to record when founds were poured?

Gumbo

Will23 wrote: »

any update on this DOCARCH? thanks.

Will.

Will,

I clarified this in another thread. All CN's lodged up to and including the 28th February are considered under the current system.

But bear in mind, if you lodge a CN on the 28th and there's something wrong with it, incorrect details, or wrong number etc you will have to rectify it and his push it into march and then you fall into the new regs.

So, if lodging with a tight deadline towards the end of February, make sure to double check it and that everything is correct on it.

budgetbuilder wrote: »

According to enforcement at the county hall in Wexford, in order for them to consider work to have commenced, you need to have poured the foundations. Don't know if it is different from council to council though.

Some BCO's will look for works that specifically cannot be done with planning. So if you erect hoarding and consider yourself started, I would class that as not started as all you've done is put up some site hoarding. They will look for ground been broken and clear signs of construction I would imagine.

Will23

kceire wrote: »

Some BCO's will look for works that specifically cannot be done with planning. So if you erect hoarding and consider yourself started, I would class that as not started as all you've done is put up some site hoarding. They will look for ground been broken and clear signs of construction I would imagine.

thanks for the response.

in larger projects it would not be unheard of that foundations do not commence within the 14-day commencement window, but that works have commenced per se, i.e. hoarding is erecting (could be extensive), site huts are moved in, construction commences on the site compound and detailed programme review and planning is taking place. in this scenario most architect's would call this works having commenced. In fact the general approach is that this does not commence before the commencement period is activated.

the fact that this is being \interpreted' by some BCO's is the worry, surely a standardised approach, irrespective of project size, is what we should be expecting of our local authorities.

will the differing approaches, a la FSC's and DAC's up and down the country, still be commonplace?

Will.

bartbu

Got planning decision...grant date 26th feb so should get cn in on 27th. might escape. thanks

Gumbo

bartbu wrote: »

Got planning decision...grant date 26th feb so should get cn in on 27th. might escape. thanks

And pray its validated

budgetbuilder

bartbu wrote: »

Got planning decision...grant date 26th feb so should get cn in on 27th. might escape. thanks

From what I was told you not only have to have the commencment notice in and validated you also have to have physically started building, sitework isn't enough. But there is a 14 day wait period from the date of lodging the commencment notice before you are allowed to start building. I lodged mine on the 24th of January so I can't start building until the 8th of february. You also have to start building within 28 days of lodging the notice.

bartbu

From what i have been told by my engineer to have commencement notice in before 28 th Feb will suffice. Otherwise how will councils have manpower to check which sites have commenced work or not. . A lot of in clarity in this area. . Any way of finding out for sure. .

budgetbuilder

I'd double check with your planning enforcement department, they seem to be the ones making the rules rather than taking your engineers word for it. After all, if he's wrong and you miss the deadline, who is the one that is going to be doing all the certifying at your expense? The councils specifically hire people to go around and check up on these things. At least that's what I was told by the ones that have called to me in the past. They get sent a list of addresses to check out and report back to enforcement.

bartbu

budgetbuilder wrote: »

I'd double check with your planning enforcement department, they seem to be the ones making the rules rather than taking your engineers word for it. After all, if he's wrong and you miss the deadline, who is the one that is going to be doing all the certifying at your expense? The councils specifically hire people to go around and check up on these things. At least that's what I was told by the ones that have called to me in the past. They get sent a list of addresses to check out and report back to enforcement.

I will do. thanks for advice. typical Ireland..never just black and white...should people not have been advised of this when applying for planning recently or are we just supposed to know these things??:mad:

BryanF

bartbu wrote: »

should people not have been advised of this when applying for planning recently or are we just supposed to know these things??

your not supposed to know these things, you've already stated

bartbu wrote: »

i have been told by my engineer to have commencement notice in before 28 th Feb will suffice..

do you trust your planning adviser? if not perhaps you should tell him/her.

typical Ireland

we'd rather complain..

bartbu

BryanF wrote: »

your not supposed to know these things, you've already stated
do you trust your planning adviser? if not perhaps you should tell him/her.

we'd rather complain..

I wouldn't rather complain...id rather be able to build my house under the regulations that were in place when I applied for planning...or at least be advised that that these were to change!

archtech

bartbu wrote: »

I wouldn't rather complain...id rather be able to build my house under the regulations that were in place when I applied for planning...or at least be advised that that these were to change!

New regulations have been flagged to be introduced on March 1st over 12 months ago (and were published generally in the same format at the most recent publication) at this stage, its been in the media regularly over that time.

Many have been hoping that they would be postponed however one has to wonder why, considering the Minister has never postponed anything in the past.

You may feel hard done by if you have to comply with the new regs, however there are many individuals whom will loose their livelihoods as a result of the regulations and restricted in what work they can do.

bartbu

archtech...thanks for the post....

archtech wrote: »

New regulations have been flagged to be introduced on March 1st over 12 months ago (and were published generally in the same format at the most recent publication) at this stage, its been in the media regularly over that time.

Unfortunately I do not work in this area and had never heard of these regs until recently. Where can I find a copy of this publication?


Many have been hoping that they would be postponed however one has to wonder why, considering the Minister has never postponed anything in the past.

You may feel hard done by if you have to comply with the new regs, however there are many individuals whom will loose their livelihoods as a result of the regulations and restricted in what work they can do.

I am aware that these regs have serious consequences for many people and not just myself so I don't see why I need....."however....." I empathise with these people who will loose out on a serious amount of work.
I simply would like to know where I stand in trying to build a house for my family and if I will be able to afford it under the new regs? Might have to stay with the mother for another while!!!!

4Sticks

The Irish Association of Self Builders of Ireland (IASOB) are currently campaigning against the introduction of Building Control (Amendment) Regulation (SI.9 of 2014)

why don't you join in here

bartbu

thanks 4sticks

budgetbuilder

The whole problem with regs are that they are an all too typical kneejerk reaction to some very recent problems. And they are needed but they have been brought in a a blanket solution to a very specific problem. The problem being of developers cutting corners for bigger profits. They should have been applied to developements of two units or more or any developement where there was not a planning condition in place banning sale of the property for a certain period of time.

Most self builders are not going to skimp on the building of their own homes. This is baby and bathwater regulation. As for publicity for these new regulations, it may have been publicised widely in industry publications but in reality most of us don't have any acess to those.

I only found out about them by accident. And only after my final grant. The fact that I'll get in under the old regs is sheer blind luck! My architect didn't mention anything about them to me. It was only an engineering firm trying to frighten me into using their services that allerted me to the changes.

Gumbo

budgetbuilder wrote: »

From what I was told you not only have to have the commencment notice in and validated you also have to have physically started building, sitework isn't enough. But there is a 14 day wait period from the date of lodging the commencment notice before you are allowed to start building. I lodged mine on the 24th of January so I can't start building until the 8th of february. You also have to start building within 28 days of lodging the notice.

Not physically commenced but deffo lodged before 28th February. But bear in mind, you are giving 14 days notice, so you must start after those 14 days.

bartbu wrote: »

From what i have been told by my engineer to have commencement notice in before 28 th Feb will suffice. Otherwise how will councils have manpower to check which sites have commenced work or not. . A lot of in clarity in this area. . Any way of finding out for sure. .

Lodged and validated on or before the 28th February will suffice. Your engineer speaks the truth.

budgetbuilder wrote: »

I'd double check with your planning enforcement department, they seem to be the ones making the rules rather than taking your engineers word for it. After all, if he's wrong and you miss the deadline, who is the one that is going to be doing all the certifying at your expense? The councils specifically hire people to go around and check up on these things. At least that's what I was told by the ones that have called to me in the past. They get sent a list of addresses to check out and report back to enforcement.

The councils do not hire people to do this. And ignore planning enforcement, they have no jurisdiction over Building Control. I think you have your wire mixed up here budgetbuilder.

bartbu wrote: »

I will do. thanks for advice. typical Ireland..never just black and white...should people not have been advised of this when applying for planning recently or are we just supposed to know these things??:mad:

People have been advised, over 12 months ago. There was a public consultation out on it also. Your agent should of informed you and advised on thirst course of action.

bartbu wrote: »

I wouldn't rather complain...id rather be able to build my house under the regulations that were in place when I applied for planning...or at least be advised that that these were to change!

You have to ask yourself why didn't your agent advise you on this.

bartbu

Thanks kceire...your 100% spot on in relation to planning adviser...thanks for the clarity...

RedPeppers

I submitted my commencement form this morning, spoke to someone in planning and they reckon I am going to come in under the new regs, didnt want to argue but surely this cannot be the case, anyone else speak submit their notice lately?

sydthebeat

RedPeppers wrote: »

I submitted my commencement form this morning, spoke to someone in planning and they reckon I am going to come in under the new regs, didnt want to argue but surely this cannot be the case, anyone else speak submit their notice lately?

What was their reason for saying that? Was the commencement notice accepted?
Did they tell you to fill out the new form?

RedPeppers

sydthebeat wrote: »

What was their reason for saying that? Was the commencement notice accepted?
Did they tell you to fill out the new form?

She basically said its a very grey area at the moment regarding the implementation of the new regs and they would know more in a couple of weeks but with me submitting the notice only now I am going to struggle to get foundations etc done in time. Yes the notice was accepted, paid in cash and got a receipt. No mention of a new form. I asked about paying the development fee, she didn't seem to bothered think I am going to get that paid next week.

Not sure where I stand now tbh, will need to get cracking asap

sydthebeat

NoTice accepted and receipted, your Fine.
Don't loose that receipt.

bartbu

id say your sound redpeppers....I will only be receiving my official grant on Wednesday 26th and have requested ( in writing- as instructed by planning office) that my c3 be issued on Thursday which I will collect from council office as they normally not sent out till following Monday.. I will then hand in my commencement on that Thursday or Friday which I am told will suffice as long as I have it accepted and receipted before closing Friday...I hope this is the case..
For you id say you are well in time but id trust nothing in this shambles of a set up....best of luck