The Official Off Topic Thread

Mostly Harmless

BumperD wrote: »

Hahaha think you missed the point.

Never knew you as such a stickler for laws and rules. :pac:

Sure it would be easier if they could just settle these things on anecdotal opinions of some guy on the internet

BumperD

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

Sure it would be easier if they could just settle these things on anecdotal opinions of some guy on the internet

You do know the definition of anecdotal? Not sure of its application here. Anyway glad you’re now in favor of applying the laws of the land rigidly

Mostly Harmless

BumperD wrote: »

You do know the definition of anecdotal? Not sure of its application here. Anyway glad you’re now in favor of applying the laws of the land rigidly

Thought I was a stickler for rules and laws in your last post?
Like I said, I don't really agree with the outcome as I think best horse should generally keep the race but I have a basic understanding of the yank rules and the amended result was the correct application of those rules. Laugh and take the p1ss if you want but that's the reality.

BumperD

My only criticism was the comments of the trainer of the 2nd MH. Look back at the posts.
I watched it live on yanky tv, all of it. Were you watching the coverage live last night?
No “anecdotal “ opinions. They were facts.

Regardless of the rules applied, I thought his behavior immediately post race was piss poor. I’m sure I’m not alone

Mostly Harmless

BumperD wrote: »

My only criticism was the comments of the trainer of the 2nd MH. Look back at the posts.

You said the 2nd had no case but under the rules he did, so much so that all three stewards were in agreemnt that he did.

BumperD wrote: »

I watched it live on yanky tv, all of it. Were you watching the coverage live last night?
No “anecdotal “ opinions. They were facts.

Yes I watched it.

BumperD wrote: »

Regardless of the rules applied, I thought his behavior immediately post race was piss poor. I’m sure I’m not alone

Mott knew the winner would get kicked out if letter of law was applied, of course he is going to talk up the interference and put the pressue on for his horse to be placed first in one of the richest races in the world. Similarly Servis/Saez are going to talk down the interference (blame the crowd noise), say that everything was done to prevent the horse drifting and say they were the best horse and would've won regardless - but the looks on their faces after the enquiry had gone on for more than 5 minutes suggested they knew they were in bother.


Anyway, I see Trump has now criticised the decision so on that basis alone I am pretty sure it was the correct decision

BumperD

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

You said the 2nd had no case but under the rules he did, so much so that all three stewards were in agreemnt that he did.

No they didn’t. He (Country House) didn’t feature in their decision As he suffered zero interference

Yes I watched it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy-H0GxKmNA There’s the decision.



Mott knew the winner would get kicked out if letter of law was applied, of course he is going to talk up the interference and put the pressue on for his horse to be placed first in one of the richest races in the world. Similarly Servis/Saez are going to talk down the interference (blame the crowd noise), say that everything was done to prevent the horse drifting and say they were the best horse and would've won regardless - but the looks on their faces after the enquiry had gone on for more than 5 minutes suggested they knew they were in bother.


Anyway, I see Trump has now criticised the decision so on that basis alone I am pretty sure it was the correct decision

The behavior of Mott was what I criticized as his horse suffered zero interference, Mott just played the opportunistic card, if he kept his mouth shut he probably would still have got the race based on the letter of the law. Anyway hope he chocked on his champagne

Your argument centers on the decision. It’s not in question as it’s already decided.

Find me a few winners on the sand will yea and stop arguing with me ffs!!!:pac:

FatRat

I'm not familiar with differences in rules from here to over in the states. But after watching that I can safely say I disagree with them. Hence why I first pointed out that I think more and more that when it comes to racing we generally have it spot on whereas the US racers seem to not have a clue when it comes to some matters.

Imhof Tank

I also thought the local commentators were an embarrassment, it was like none of them actually knew the what the rule was so they could give viewers no insight. Compare that to Jim McGrath back in the Channel 4 days or say ITV now, they are generally calling the outcome of enquiries in advance, and are very rarely wrong.

Andrew00

Or Jerry Hannon with his "very level break" at the start of 99% of races. Absolute dross

tryfix

Imhof Tank wrote: »

I also thought the local commentators were an embarrassment, it was like none of them actually knew the what the rule was so they could give viewers no insight. Compare that to Jim McGrath back in the Channel 4 days or say ITV now, they are generally calling the outcome of enquiries in advance, and are very rarely wrong.

It's easy to call the results of a UK stewards enquiry, where the horses themselves rarely get disqualified nowadays. A state of affairs which allows jockeys to hinder other horses with little fear of much else happening than a few days riding ban for the jockey themselves.

The yanks may be too strict but the opposite is the case in the UK.

IAMAMORON

It helps if your a Derby winner owned by an Oppenheimer.... I never thought this decision was fair at all.

NaiveMelodies

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It helps if your a Derby winner owned by an Oppenheimer.... I never thought this decision was fair at all.

People are failing to understand the very simple point that the rules in the States are different.
There's no point sharing examples from here- the winner gets dq'd every time in this example stateside.

Mostly Harmless

NaiveMelodies wrote: »

People are failing to understand the very simple point that the rules in the States are different.
There's no point sharing examples from here- the winner gets dq'd every time in this example stateside.

Yeah, neither sets of rules are perfect but provided they are applied consistently across the board then it is what it is.

tryfix

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It helps if your a Derby winner owned by an Oppenheimer.... I never thought this decision was fair at all.

Terrible stuff, it was accidental but Golden Horn very clearly swerved out on to Free Eagle as Free Eagle was making up ground onto his withers. He took Free Eagle's winning chance away and also deprived him of second place.

If ye don't punish a horse for taking another's ground when it is coming to challenge then it's a cheats charter. A few year's ago Bondi Beach was deliberately carried across the track by Storm The Stars in the Great Voltigeur and nothing was done about it, a few weeks later Simple Verse bumped him a few times and lost the race only to have that stewards decision thrown out by the BHA. There's no incentive for a horse's connections to instruct their jockeys to ride a fair race. Last year Oisin Murphy needlessly and deliberately cut in on top of Saxon Warrior ensuring that there was no possibility that Saxon Warrior would get back up in the Eclipse. He could do it because he knew there was no risk and every advantage to be gained by doing so.

Back in the 80s and 90s there's no way that taking someone's ground would be tolerated. I'd put the blame for the relaxation of the rules down to the BHA's fear of taking on big owners, after the bruising court battles when the Aga Khan quit UK racing over Aliysa's disqualification in the Oaks there was definitely a move by the UK authorities towards non confrontation with owners.

Mostly Harmless

I thought Golden Horn deserved to keep that race myself as it was not an intentional case and the interference didn't make any difference to the result, Free Eagle was weakening when it occurred, it was very borderline though. But the deliberate drifting across in front of horses when a length in front is a scourge on the game in these parts and I think the rules should be tightened but it is a difficult balancing act. The nature of tracks in UK/IRE is conducive to trouble in running too - i.e. not all flat ovals with long straights as is generally the case in USA.

zpehtsfd

I gave up trying to understand the rules in UK/IRE after Elusive Kate kept this race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6G5RuEeQmE

Now compare that to when Jacquellines Quest lost her race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwvParJLCdo

No consistency. I'm sure the fact that JQ, who was a 66/1 shot beating the fav, didn't affect their decision.

FatRat

Never confident with O Briens lot that travel to the states. Magic Wand here is favourite for the ManOWar stakes I find there is always value in the American horses when this happens. Will back Focus Group at 10/3. Intetested to see how Hunting Hron and Magic Wand fair. It's off in 5 minutes, only just spotted it.

Andrew00

Will be cheering on aidans two

Andrew00

Thought Hunting Horn was going ta nick it there.

BumperD

Going to chance Coral Beach in the French 1,000, beat the colts in its final race last year one of which goes on the 2000 for Joseph earlier in the card no needs never. 14/1 looks a bit of value in an open looking race given the firepower he has unleashed so far in England.GL

Gavin "shels"

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0513/1049163-war-celeste/

Andrew00

Shocking

tinpib

ya, a very sad story

STB.

Gavin shels wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0513/1049163-war-celeste/

I wonder who Bowman Bloodstock bought her for 15 grand, 3 and a half years ago. Doesn't seem she ever saw a racetrack.

BumperD

https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/gordon-elliott-and-joseph-o-brien-among-27-trainers-to-open-doors-to-public/381120

Might be of interest to some here

FLOOPER

Just see in PP site they have Paul Jacobs as a star tipster. What’s his form like, can anyone tell me.

I have always followed you guys on here with a lot of success. Thanks, as I’m not as knowledgeable as I would like (read thick
As a brick) so I have to follow tipping people.

FLOOPER

Review

Well to answer my own question as one must it seems.

He had a very good day indeed at York. Out of the 5 races he picked he landed 4 winners and gave notable mentions to 2 second places horses. And had the 1st 2nd and 3rd bigged up in Yorkshire’s Gold Cup.

He only missed out on a 33/1 shot in the 4.35.

So will be keeping an eye on him in the future if he posts on PP again.

Here’s his article

The cavalry are coming to try and shoot down the Champion Stayer this season, but do any of the challengers have the high cruising speed, turn of foot and staying power of Stradivarius?

Well, of the new generation, Cross Counter could well match John Gosden’s king on all three counts, but he isn’t entered in Friday’s Yorkshire Cup and of the champs’ seven rivals, none look worthy opponents over this mile and a three trip.


The giant Southern France is crying out for a trip in excess of two miles plus and may only come into his own on Ascot Gold Cup day. That view was endorsed by his opening salvo at in the Vintage Crop Stakes at Navan where he travelled into the race like a Rolls Royce only to have the end of race acceleration of a Ford Anglia.

The victor that day, Master of Reality, should confirm the form over this intermediate trip, but the biggest danger to the current champ over this distance of ground looks likely to be Mildenberger who has a bit more about him in the ‘speed’ department.

But from a betting perspective, the most interesting event of the day is the following class two, mile and a quarter handicap at 3.35.

UAE Prince only had the three starts last year, but has a deal more progression in him and of course the Varian team is white hot at the moment.


However, the six-year-old makes the market for the rest of the field and the each-way supreme value has to be the Godolphin owned Lucius Tiberius despite his welterweight.

The son of Camelot was hardly suited by the run of the race last time out at Epsom and will be much more at home on this more galloping track. As long as the Knavesmire doesn’t get any significant rain then he could well take care of the likes of Big Kitten, Grandee and the tight market leader.

I love the way that Florenza went about her business last time out, but she will need another significant step forward to land the fillies’ handicap at 4.05 after having the run of the race that day.


The better offer at the prevailing weights is Agincourt, second to the Fairhurst filly at Town Moor, and hailing from the in-form David O’Meara yard. This daughter of Declaration of War will relish the likely break-neck pace here and should gain her revenge.

Mawde is the each-way call at a gigantic price in the three-year-old burn up at 4.35, while Magnetic Charm looks the main viable punting rival to the Gosden/Dettori market leader Twist ‘N’ Shake in the fillies’ Listed event due off at 2.25.

BumperD

Going with Bourbon War in the Preakness, comes here fresh after being beaten 7L 4th by the Kentucky winner. He’s 9/2 but you can get 9/1 from a few UK bookies which looks value

mickmackmcgoo

BumperD wrote:

Going with Bourbon War in the Preakness, comes here fresh after being beaten 7L 4th by the Kentucky winner. He’s 9/2 but you can get 9/1 from a few UK bookies which looks value

It's a poor preakness . Going for win win win ew about 16/1

Mostly Harmless

Does look a shocker, bet Anothertwistafate who should get race run to suit and can reverse form with Alwaysmining. But lots of guess work going on.