Help me please,, school principle making my child out to be a liar unfairly

burgermasters

MODS not sure were to put this so please feel free to put in the right place thanks.

Ok,

So my child is in 1st class primary school, very bright honest hard working child who has been recommended for gifted you programs and the like! NEVER been in any kind of trouble what so ever, two weeks ago i collect her from school and she has a swollen eye??? i ask what happened and she tells me this boy who i wont put a name to punched her in the eye? she said she didn't tell the teacher because the other kids will call her a rat!!!! doing the right thing i myself went to the teacher who infomed me that it would not be left this boy be dealt with! happy enough i left at that even though it took three days for the eye to go back to normal...

Less than a week later this same boy punched her the mouth, outraged i went back the teacher and was told well there is two boys with the same 1st name that they dont know who it is because my child doesn't know there 2nd name? so i told the teacher in front of my child that she has to be taken to this class to point the boy out all 3 of agreed.

right enough the next morning i reminded the teacher that she was to point the boy out today and he in turn said yes the principle is going to deal with it, happy again i go off.

but later that day when i pick her up she tells that she was called down to the office and the principle told her it was an accident??? WTF

Obviously i went to the principal who told me that my child said it was an accident and that she took the boy sown to my daughters class apologise and that we should just keep our daughter away from this boy full stop when i told the principal that twice in one week is NOT an accident she said she knew nothing about the 1st one as the teacher told her it was a hoola hoop??? when i asked my daughter did this boy come down the principal to say sorry? she said no and is addiment to come to the office with me in the morning to tell me in front of the principal that she did not take her out of her class for the boy to say sorry,, and as i said earlier the school had no idea witch one the two boys it was and never got my daughter to point him out??? CLEARLY the school is telling lies???? What the hell can i do about this please help as best you can guys, thanks

PS sorry about the long read.:mad:

Ruu

Moved from After Hours, the Parenting charter now applies.

Mod.

burgermasters

Thank you Ruubot 2

DoozerT6

OP, there is a parenting forum here (click the 'Soc' tab at the top of the page) which might be more useful you will get lots of 'kill it with fire!!' comment here in After Hours.

Having said that, I'm sure more than one person here can come up with some real advice....

Edit: ha, in before the move!

Eoin247

I found a lot of that very hard to read unfortunately (You might want to recheck the post). From what i understand though I think you're over reacting a bit. If this hitting continues then keep at the staff. Stay calm with them though, as you want the school on your side

burgermasters

Im not very good with this i know,, and maybe some might think i am over reacting but at the end of the day there is nothing worse than having your child come home from school with a swollen eye or a fat lip at the age of 7,, and then to have the staff and the principal lie to your face?? my job as a father is to protect my kids and that is what i will do! if i wait it out what happens next stitches???

2xj3hplqgsbkym

This is very difficult to read and understand, perhaps because you are ranting as you are so upset and angry.

I would recommend writing down everything that happened in your side and what your daughter told you (when you calm down) and give a copy of this to the school. Then ask the school to give you a written report also.

tayto lover

burgermasters wrote: »

Im not very good with this i know,, and maybe some might think i am over reacting but at the end of the day there is nothing worse than having your child come home from school with a swollen eye or a fat lip at the age of 7,, and then to have the staff and the principal lie to your face?? my job as a father is to protect my kids and that is what i will do! if i wait it out what happens next stitches???

Its always better to put your complaint on paper and also keep a copy.
They will act if its on paper and also threaten that if there's a further instance of violence against your child that you will write to the Board of Management.

That will make them take action.

jelenka

No advise here, but I am sorry that this happened to your little girl and I really hope something will be done to punish that kid . I am also shocked that a 7 year old is worried about being scared of complaining about it in order not to be called a rat ! That shouldn't be happening ...

Big Bag of Chips

Your child needs to learn that it is ok to tell someone. If she could point out the child in the yard immediately when something like this happens, then it would cut out a lot of the unnecessary, bringing children's to each others classes etc.

Has your child any friends in school, who witnessed either incident? Could they help identify the boy?

I agree your post was quite difficult to follow with a lot of "he said/she said".Go to the school, calmly, and make an appointment to see the principal and your daughter's teacher together. Keep calm in the meeting and listen to what they both say. Put your side across as your daughter has told you.. maybe bring in a written list of dates/times etc.

This sounds like miscommunication on all sides rather than the principal and teacher conspiring against your daughter & you deliberately. If you can sit down with both of them and find out exactly what each person thinks has happened, you'll be more likely to find out what ACTUALLY happened, and how to resolve any issues that need to be resolved.

Your daughter should point the boy out to her teacher in the yard.. not be brought to his classroom for an identity parade.

Orion

Folks this isn't the Spell Czechs forum. I'm a grammar nazi and I could still understand everything the op was saying so let's respond to that rather than how it's written.

/mod

burgermasters:
Get a copy of your school's Complaints policy, Health and Safety policy and Anti-Bullying policy. I would be careful about calling anyone a liar - everything is open to interpretation and it may well be that your daughter told the principal that it was an accident rather than point out her bully in class. If everything is as you describe you need to stay calm and write everything down rather than go in emotional and take it to the teacher or principal. Recurring physical abuse is serious and must be dealt with. This is where the policies come in - if the principal refuses to adhere to allegations of bullying or physical abuse that is serious and you will have grounds to take it further in a manner dictated by the complaints policy. Stick to your guns but be calm and rational when dealing with the staff - it will go much better than way.

HomelessMidge

I reckon your best off going to the school board. Write them a letter and outline everything that happened, between this boy hitting your daughter twice to the teacher and principles response. The board should be able to deal with it for you.

When writing the letter take your time and outline every detail so they get the full picture.

Orion

Not without reading the complaints policy. There are rules that must be followed or the board can do nothing. You have to follow the process exactly.

goz83

Everything recorded is better. This way, you have something to fall back on. Email the Principal and cc the email to the board of management. Have your email checked over to make sure its clear. While i could understand mostly what you were saying, it was a bit difficult to follow. Your kid shouldn't have the mind frame that if she reports things to a teacher, she is a rat. It's necessary to prevent bullying and might have been nipped in the bud if she told the teacher the first time it happened. Unfortunately, kids will be kids, but your daughter should be able to report bullying if and when it happens to her, or anyone else. Ignoring bullying has had some tragic circumstances. Best of luck OP.

HomelessMidge

Orion wrote: »

Not without reading the complaints policy. There are rules that must be followed or the board can do nothing. You have to follow the process exactly.

Surely if she believes her child is telling the truth and the principle is lying she has the right to go to the board!

Sounds as if the principle is trying to just brush this off and not properly deal with it.

clairefontaine

There are some serious protocol failures here.

1. Why were you not notified immediately when your child had been injured? Because this is sloppy protocol bear in mind the principals and the oars are now in cover their ass mode. Did take a photo? Go to the doctor? Have any documentation of these injuries.

So this is breach number one.

2. Follow up. Why was your child not brought into to identify the boy who attacked her twice?

3. A meeting with the parents? Why wasn't one called?

4. Consequences?

5. Who was out in the yard at the time?

6. It's important your daughter knows she can tell, but now that she has told and nothing has happened, what message does that send? Not a great one. He should also know she has a right to self defense. At this point Id give her permission to strike back. I'd even send her to martial arts to teach her.

paperclip2

Get a copy of the incident report sheets if you can. That should show in writing what line the school is taking with this. If they don't exist then that's an issue in itself.

Along with what the other posters have said document everything, what your daughter said happened, who she spoke to, who you spoke to, content of conversations, decisions made. Include the time and date and as much detail as possible. YOu will need this info if things need to be progressed. Keep on firmly but politely to the school until the issue is resolved. It might take time and hell of a lot of patience, perseverance and at times biting your tongue but let them know you aren't going away on this.

goz83

HomelessMidge wrote: »

Surely if she believes her child is telling the truth and the principle is lying she has the right to go to the board!

Sounds as if the principle is trying to just brush this off and not properly deal with it.

Going from other posts, I'm sure the OP is a man and not a woman.

Gaillimh1976

Write to the principal and tell them your solicitor wants copies of all paperwork in relation to both incidents.

Watch the ''cover my ass" reflex kick in !!!

saltyjack silverblade

I think far too many people here are reading psychology bull and need to look at the practical. A child was hit and then the incident repeated. The school didn't handle it well. Address the issue and keep a level head. If you go in declaring solicitor this and incident report that you are not going to do your daughter any favours in regards to her future. You will be seen as "that mother" and every problem that may arise in the future they will treat you as if you are nuts.

Best to maintain a rational head about this and explain to the school that you have a problem with what was done. You don't want your daughter being brought to other classes as you feel this is inappropriate and ask them how they are dealing with the issue. Remember the other child probably has a mother who is saying that her little angel is being accused of bullying by someone and how traumatic it is on her darling.

Talk to the school, calmly, explaining your side- without blame if possible- and what outcome there is from it. Keep a note of the dates and the conversation (don't let the school know this) and if the incident happens again you can go in and point to specific issues on paper. My advice, for whatever outcome good or bad from this, move on and tell your daughter to stay away from him if possible. Kids get into things in school, as a parent try and maintain your dignity and not follow suit.

MadYaker

clairefontaine wrote: »

There are some serious protocol failures here.

1. Why were you not notified immediately when your child had been injured? Because this is sloppy protocol bear in mind the principals and the oars are now in cover their ass mode. Did take a photo? Go to the doctor? Have any documentation of these injuries.

So this is breach number one.

2. Follow up. Why was your child not brought into to identify the boy who attacked her twice?

3. A meeting with the parents? Why wasn't one called?

4. Consequences?

5. Who was out in the yard at the time?

6. It's important your daughter knows she can tell, but now that she has told and nothing has happened, what message does that send? Not a great one. He should also know she has a right to self defense. At this point Id give her permission to strike back. I'd even send her to martial arts to teach her.

Are you having a laugh? Honest question.

paperclip2

saltyjack silverblade wrote: »

I think far too many people here are reading psychology bull and need to look at the practical. A child was hit and then the incident repeated. The school didn't handle it well. Address the issue and keep a level head. If you go in declaring solicitor this and incident report that you are not going to do your daughter any favours in regards to her future. You will be seen as "that mother" and every problem that may arise in the future they will treat you as if you are nuts.
.

The incident report is there to show what happened. It should also outline the schools response. An incidence of repeated behaviour where one child was hit by another warrants an incident report.

For example my son was tripped deliberately in the playground yesterday and had to be brought to the doctor to have the wound stitched. An incident report sheet simply states exactly what the school thinks happened and the action arising from it. Its a statement of their position in relation to any incident where an injury is caused to a child on the premises.

In my case although the school handled the incident very well I still wanted to have a copy of the report in case its needed in future, e.g. if there is a repetition of the behavior. Its not an unreasonable request and would be standard practice in my sons school. Requesting a copy of the form is not a big deal but can be useful down the line to document issues as they arise.

A lassie-faire attitude to pupil safety in any school is not a tolerable policy and if the OP's daughter is coming home with injuries then he is within his rights to make sure all reasonable steps are taken to make it stop.

clairefontaine

MadYaker wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? Honest question.

Why the hell would I be having a laugh? Do you think this is some kind of joke?

Is it funny that a kid in first class comes home being assaulted with s swollen eye? You think I am making fun of this!

saltyjack silverblade

clairefontaine wrote: »

Why the hell would I be having a laugh? Do you think this is some kind of joke?

Is it funny that a kid in first class comes home being assaulted with s swollen eye? You think I am making fun of this!

Ok now I can't tell if this is indignation or high level sarcasm.

hotbabe1992

The schools attitude is not okay,and you need to take action and take more initiative on this.

As you say yourself sitting and waiting it out is not good enough whats next stitches or even worse.

Kids can be very cruel,and something needs to be done about this,where are the consequences for the young boys involved to send out the message this is not okay.?


If this charade continues and the school principal doesnt clean up the act,threaten legal action,you can always go down a civil route,and incur the expenses of the letter on them also for your trouble.You can discuss how you would go about this in a legal letter with a solicitor.

In certain situations you can do this,and i think this is one,as you were clearly wronged,so i would avail of it.

goz83

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

The schools attitude is not okay,and you need to take action and take more initiative on this.

As you say yourself sitting and waiting it out is not good enough whats next stitches or even worse.

Kids can be very cruel,and something needs to be done about this,where are the consequences for the young boys involved to send out the message this is not okay.?


If this charade continues and the school principal doesnt clean up the act,threaten legal action,you can always go down a civil route,and incur the expenses of the letter on them also for your trouble.You can discuss how you would go about this in a legal letter with a solicitor.

In certain situations you can do this,and i think this is one,as you were clearly wronged,so i would avail of it.

The schools handling would indeed appear to be poor according to what we have been told, but bringing in solicitors for what is (let's be honest) a relatively minor situation is a terrible idea. What are we? America? You can't fart over there without being dragged into the cop shop.

The OP simply needs to be calm and have a chat with the principal. Requesting the incident report wouldn't be a bad idea.

hotbabe1992

The school principal didnt call a parent meeting over this,i would say that is a bad move on their part.

No consequences enforced for the children who deliberately punched her and physically bullied her.

If they dont get any satisfactory response i think a legal letter with costs incurred to them might not be a bad idea.

I wouldnt be suprised if they have some excuse for not producing an incident form.

Its just not on.


Im not saying sue them in particular, im saying maybe look for a legal remedy(which can be taken in civil cases) for the courts maybe to compel them(the school and the parents of the bullies) to take a certain action favourable for the child who is being bullied.

byhookorbycrook

A number of things strike me. Firstly I would be most concerned that your child felt they could not tell an adult what happened. It's that culture that left all kinds of abuse go on for years.
Did your child identify which child it was to the teacher by name?
Are you certain it was not an accident?
Was the incident investigated whereby eye witnesses were sought?
Can you say for certain that the parent/s of whichever child it was were not contacted?

pooch90

My God, has common sense gone out the window completely?
Legal action? Cop on to yourselves.

A kid hit another kid twice.
It happens.
I'm not saying it's right.
This doesn't constitute bullying.
God only knows the other kid may be acting out as something is seriously wrong in their own life.
None of us know.

Yes, it may have been dealt with $rseways.
Talk calmly to the staff again.
The Board of Management won't entertain you at this point anyway. As has been said before, there is a procedure to be followed and each step must be followed before going to BOM.

hotbabe1992

Yes, it may have been dealt with $rseways.

That is the understatement of the year,yes a child hit another child,2 children were involved in this physical bullying episode.

None of the parents were informed. No meetings initiated etc.

I think going down a legal route,just a suggestion you dont have to take it on board or anything,but i thought legal action by way of remedy to compel the school to take a certain action may very well be the way forward,considering the level of the lack of co-operation the parent of this bullied child is dealing with.

byhookorbycrook

Hotbabe, we do not know if parents of the other child were contacted or not. I take it you have never done yard duty where kids bang into each other all the time, by accident. The child did not tell the teacher on duty or the class teacher at the time. Give the school a chance before you send in the barristers.

pooch90

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

2 children were involved in this physical bullying episode.

Where does is say 2 kids were culpable?

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

None of the parents were informed.

How do you know?

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

i thought legal action by way of remedy to compel the school to take a certain action may very well be the way forward,considering the level of the lack of co-operation the parent of this bullied child is dealing with.

Dragging everything out for months and upsetting the little girl even more?
As opposed to talking to the staff again?



The meaning of the word bullying has completely been lost nowadays.
Bullying is a sustained, ongoing behaviour. Two incidents does not fall into this.

spurious

The two boys with the same first name excuse is a load of me barney as we say in the trade. Any teacher worth their salt would know which of two Johns or Billys or Marys was likely to have struck another child, especially on a repeat basis.

I find it unusual that it seems the school has not followed any of the recognised procedures other schools would and do follow.

clairefontaine

They can't inform the parents if they haven't bothered taking steps to identify the child so I would assume not.

hotbabe1992

Dragging everything out for months and upsetting the little girl even more?
As opposed to talking to the staff again?

Oh by all means talk to the staff again - but given their intial response i would say this could not go as smooth as one would be likely to think.

No solutions were offered at the first meeting with the principal. Things aren't looking good.

I dont know why you are dead set against some sort of legal remedy im not talking about months in a court room or anything like that,this could easily be settled on the court room steps where the court just outlines what appropriate action should be taken and what penalties are in place for not taking such an action..

clairefontaine

Id start with an official letter of complaint to the Dep of ED, cc a copy to the board of management.

The schools lack of response is irresponsible.

H3llR4iser

One simple question: why everybody assumes the school is lying about the first episode being an accident with an hula hoop?

pooch90

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

I dont know why you are dead set against some sort of legal remedy

It's completely over the top and ridiculous. Simply put.

hotbabe1992

No its not.

If the school is not taking action on this,someone has to compel them to do so.

byhookorbycrook

clairefontaine wrote: »

Id start with an official letter of complaint to the Dep of ED, cc a copy to the board of management.

The schools lack of response is irresponsible.

The first thing the DES will do is tell the OP to follow the agreed complaints procedure.

clairefontaine

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The first thing the DES will do is tell the OP to follow the agreed complaints procedure.

What are you supposed to do if the school principal is not responding? They haven't even had the girl identify the boy who did it?

Its pretty evident they are trying to brush it off.

goz83

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

That is the understatement of the year,yes a child hit another child,2 children were involved in this physical bullying episode.

None of the parents were informed. No meetings initiated etc.

I think going down a legal route,just a suggestion you dont have to take it on board or anything,but i thought legal action by way of remedy to compel the school to take a certain action may very well be the way forward,considering the level of the lack of co-operation the parent of this bullied child is dealing with.

You don't know for sure any of what you have posted above, as the OP situation is not clear. We are not even sure how he approached the school. It might have been all guns blazing, or a calm chat with the teacher/principal. A legal remedy at such an early stage is an absolutely terrible idea. It would be so much worse for everyone. Seriously, look at what you are writing and pretend the words are not yours. You might see how mad the suggestion is.

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Oh by all means talk to the staff again - but given their intial response i would say this could not go as smooth as one would be likely to think.

No solutions were offered at the first meeting with the principal. Things aren't looking good.

I dont know why you are dead set against some sort of legal remedy im not talking about months in a court room or anything like that,this could easily be settled on the court room steps where the court just outlines what appropriate action should be taken and what penalties are in place for not taking such an action..

You should have just written the first line and left it there. Settle 2 incidents of a child hitting (perhaps by accident) another child. Now there's a block buster. Put it in the Sunday World while you're at it.

clairefontaine wrote: »

Id start with an official letter of complaint to the Dep of ED, cc a copy to the board of management.

The schools lack of response is irresponsible.

It would appear, that the schools lack of response has been inadequate, but we don't yet have details. I would urge the OP to give the school another try, setting up a meeting to discuss this and explain why he is upset about the situation.

If that fails, then it could be taken further, but I wouldn't see this ending on the steps of the courts as someone else suggested. At that rate, half the students in Irish schools would be spending time in Juvi

hotbabe1992

A legal remedy at such an early stage is an absolutely terrible idea.

Its not early stages now - by all means i would say go back and see if you can iron things out,but if that doesnt work a legal remedy might be the ticket.

If that fails, then it could be taken further, but I wouldn't see this ending on the steps of the courts as someone else suggested. At that rate, half the students in Irish schools would be spending time in Juvi

Im suggesting the first meeting has been a complete failure - no solutions have been made,and nothing has even been acknowledged or sorted out.

You seem to think that the kids would end up in juvi - you clearly have no clue as to how legal remedies would work.

clairefontaine

First attempts have failed.

I think there is a middle step somewhere between first step and legal step.if you send in a solicitors letter, they will get defensive, circle their wagons and deny everything.

Furthermore, they might end up taking it out in your child later in more subtle ways. So be careful.

I would insist she be allowed to identify the child, that you are informed when the parents have been told, and what consequences there are if any.

Also, if this child is in the same class, insist that if it happens again your daughter be moved to another classroom.

pooch90

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

you clearly have no clue as to how legal remedies would work.

Nor you with how a formal complaints procedure works

hotbabe1992

I didnt say dont go down the formal complaints procedure line,or not have another meeting,im saying that the legal option is there is if all else fails..

Why be a prude and say no no its sueing its going to end up in juvi blah blah blah you dont have an iota of how the civil legal route works.

You can go for a remedy or sue. The obvious choice would be a remedy to compel the school to take action.

goz83

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

Its not early stages now - by all means i would say go back and see if you can iron things out,but if that doesnt work a legal remedy might be the ticket.



Im suggesting the first meeting has been a complete failure - no solutions have been made,and nothing has even been acknowledged or sorted out.

You seem to think that the kids would end up in juvi - you clearly have no clue as to how legal remedies would work.

You obviously have no clue what tongue-in-cheek sarcasm looks like. God help your children if another child accidentally brushes up against them. I can see a dozen solicitors walking behind them already.

A legal remedy WOULD be absolutely a thick headed idea right now, as to begin with, a formal complaint must be made. You don't just go banging out solicitors letters and then demand the school pays. If the school pays, who really pays? That's right, the parents and the tax payers. And the the child is either treated like an outcast, or has to move school.

hotbabe1992

A legal remedy WOULD be absolutely a thick headed idea right now,

No i dont see how a remedy to compel the school to take appropriate action would be a bad idea,i think it is a good option to have available.
As it is the school has taken no action,and it would compel them to take action otherwise there would be penalties incurred.
Like i said to the other poster,this can be a means of a last resort,legal action should not be overlooked.It doesnt mean dozens of solicitors as you dramatically put it,it doesnt mean sueing and it doesnt mean your child will be an outcast either.I think you are having an awful over reaction to this.

goz83

hotbabe1992 wrote: »

No i dont see how a remedy to compel the school to take appropriate action would be a bad idea

Exactly, you don't see the consequences. Blow your food before you eat it. It might be burny :rolleyes:

hotbabe1992

If the school is going to try and brush this off,i see it as a problem that wont be resolved.

I think legal action should be a last resort,but an option nonetheless.

To completley rule this out is being unreasonable.

goz83

You're now saying last resort, but as you were putting it so strongly it seemed like you were promoting it as a must and all other suggestions were secondary. Because of all this health and safety and over protection, kids aren't even allowed to run in the yard anymore. total BS.