(Would you like the)Motorway speed limit to be raised to 130km/h

jimgoose

Oh most definitely. I'd be in favour of raising the limit to 140 km/h in fact, provided as has been mentioned some level of proper motorway training is introduced.

Idbatterim

the crap driving and discipline is brought up a lot on this forum and it might be true, but deaths here on motorways are nearly non existent and I'm assuming we have lower deaths per capita on these roads than possibly anywhere else?

CiniO

Idbatterim wrote: »

the crap driving and discipline is brought up a lot on this forum and it might be true, but deaths here on motorways are nearly non existent and I'm assuming we have lower deaths per capita on these roads than possibly anywhere else?

Are there any statistics about deaths on motorways in Ireland?

Fighting Irish

I'd go higher again

Aestivalis

The death rate is definitely a lot lower, but there are still quite a few deaths on Irish motorways every year + serious injuries. So I wouldnt say non existant.

Iwannahurl

seamus wrote: »

Aside from patrol cars pulling people for dangerous manouvers, dangerous loads, etc, the Gardai should ignore speeds on the motorways.

They shouldn't, and they don't.

It would be crazy for AGS to acknowledge (by enforcement) other hazards on motorways, such as dangerous driving and unsafe loads etc, and to ignore a major factor (ie speed) that would greatly add to the risk caused by the other illegal behaviours.

conzy

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

In actual fact, rather than raise the current speed limit, I'd rather see a minimum limit brought in.

Merging into traffic travelling at up to 120kph doing 80kph is not acceptable, and is far more dangerous than someone exceeding the speed limit by a reasonable margin IMO.

Pulling into the overtaking lane without matching the speed of the traffic already in that lane is also an inherent problem. Travelling at 120kph to suddenly have to reduce your speed to 80kph or worse on occasion because someone cannot complete an overtaking manoeuvre on a motorway properly is not only very frustrating, but also dangerous.

There should be a gate at the bottom of the on ramp that only opens if you are doing atleast 110kph

:pac:

keithclancy

They raised the limit to 130km/h in the Netherlands from 120.

Makes fock all difference to your journey time.

djimi

keithclancy wrote: »

They raised the limit to 130km/h in the Netherlands from 120.

Makes fock all difference to your journey time.

Its a tiny increase in reality. Id be in favour of the increase purely because its better than nothing, but I wouldnt exactly be getting excited about it. If they increased it to 140 then maybe!

Chimaera

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

Bar the M50, which is too busy, I think all of our motorways should have no speed limit at all. IMO the roads are well enough designed and made that there is no safety benefit to having speed limits.

The real danger with speed on motorways isn't the absolute speed drivers travel at, but the relative speed between drivers in different lanes. I could quite comfortably cruise all day at 160 km/h in my car, but if someone in front of me is doing only 80 or 90 km/h, that's a very large differential and leaves little time to adjust (at a relative closing speed of 80 km/h you'll close a 100 m gap in less than 5 s).

This is even more of a problem for the driver in a lane to your left who decides to pull out into your lane (if you happen to be overtaking at the time). You might have been a spec in their mirror when they decided to pull out and if they haven't checked again just before committing, you could be right on top of them when they make their move.

I'd be in favour of raising the limit to 130 km/h with the imposition of a 70 km/h lower limit alongside a review of the towing regulations. There may be an argument for keeping towing vehicles off motorways since their speeds often tend to be low? There's a distinction to be drawn between cars/vans and HGVs here too I think. Maybe restrict cars/vans towing a trailer to non-motorway routes and allow HGVs to continue using motorways. A HGV is easier to spot and identify as a slow-moving vehicle than a car towing a small trailer.

I'd like to see better enforcement of the rule banning HGVs from using the outermost lane on motorways (RotR page 143) too.

Variable limits are imposed in other countries to adjust for weather conditions. They're implemented using variable speed limit signs. If a lower limit is in force, the signs are updated so you can't argue on your interpretation of the conditions. The signs say what you can do and that's it.

We absolutely need better training for multi-lane road use. A lot of the basic skills needed for this can be learned in urban driving, since lane changes are frequently encountered here. Beyond that I think a second stage driving test to cover high-speed driving is a good idea. And yes it'll cost more money, but IMO money spent on driver training is always well spent.

_Kaiser_

Firstly, yes the max limit should be increased to 140. 120/130 on many of our mostly empty motorways (M8 for example) is ridiculously slow and pointless when you can easily drive for 5 mins+ without encountering another car on it.

Secondly, the M50 should be de-classified to a N-route. It's too congested, lower limit and far too many slip roads on it anyway to be a motorway.

Thirdly, education is a must - lane discipline, signalling, lighting, general awareness and cop-on is all severely lacking on our motorways (and roads in general).

Personally I drive at speeds appropriate to the conditions rather than worrying myself about an arbitrary often nonsensical "limit". If the road says 80 and it's a country lane then not a chance will I drive at that, or if the rain is heavy and visibility is poor then I'll take my time regardless of what any sign says.... but on a wide-open practically deserted motorway I'll drive appropriate to those conditions too.

GTE

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Thirdly, education is a must - lane discipline, signalling, lighting, general awareness and cop-on is all severely lacking on our motorways (and roads in general).

Personally I drive at speeds appropriate to the conditions rather than worrying myself about an arbitrary often nonsensical "limit". If the road says 80 and it's a country lane then not a chance will I drive at that, or if the rain is heavy and visibility is poor then I'll take my time regardless of what any sign says.... but on a wide-open practically deserted motorway I'll drive appropriate to those conditions too.

It ties in with the education point you make, possible being more so an attitude point.

If the limit was raised, I have a feeling that over time that a new generation of Motors-boarders will start complaining of people going 120 in a 140/160 zone. There was an utterly dumb post here about how raising the limit could make people by better cars FFS :rolleyes:

There is nothing in my complex soul that requires me to go 140 that often, and my car is not that economical at those speeds and I do not think a smaller type car which are popular enough will ever be comfortable at 120+. I mention this as there will always be a crossover point at where the motorway is busy enough to maintain full speed limits before getting too crowded that people should all slow down.

So if the limit is raised, a much greater appreciation for relative speeds needs to develop and be appreciated, through education and attitude.
At the moment, I think we are at the lower end of speed limits so when we complain about slow drivers it us usually at a fairly dangerous "why bother with the M road" type of carry on but if the limit increases, that does not mean it is suddenly safe for HGVs and buses in increase speed by the same amount so we will have situations of truck at 80 or 90 with cars at 160.

Days 298

Didn't politicians exempt themselves and their drivers from these arbitrary limits. Nothing beats being on the motorway with nobody for miles and apparently the maximum speed possible is 120kmh.

As they say one law for us and one law for themselves.

Iwannahurl

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

education is a must - lane discipline, signalling, lighting, general awareness and cop-on is all severely lacking on our motorways (and roads in general).

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Personally I drive at speeds appropriate to the conditions rather than worrying myself about an arbitrary often nonsensical "limit".

So there are lots of poorly educated drivers out there with low levels of "general awareness and cop-on".

And in the midst of them we are to facilitate drivers who have convinced themselves regarding their own expertise and who want to travel at 140 km/h on motorways and choose their own speed in other situations where they decide for themselves that speed limits are "nonsensical" or "arbitrary"?

GTE

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So there are lots of poorly educated drivers out there with low levels of "general awareness and cop-on".

And in the midst of them we are to facilitate drivers who have convinced themselves regarding their own expertise and who want to travel at 140 km/h on motorways and choose their own speed in other situations where they decide for themselves that speed limits are "nonsensical" or "arbitrary"?

Well indeed, that statement which basically says "I make up my own limits" is pushing it but I have a feel that is more about doing 140 on an empty motorway, things like that.

There is a point of how fast is too fast, at some point regardless of hobbies, interests, regular forum usage that us humans have to admit that the car mode of transport does have an ultimate speed limit which is below the max speed of a given car.

_Kaiser_

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So there are lots of poorly educated drivers out there with low levels of "general awareness and cop-on".

And in the midst of them we are to facilitate drivers who have convinced themselves regarding their own expertise and who want to travel at 140 km/h on motorways and choose their own speed in other situations where they decide for themselves that speed limits are "nonsensical" or "arbitrary"?

Oh please..

If you can't see that many speed limits in this country are nonsensical then you're either blind or part of the first group I referred to.

If you don't understand the importance of driving appropriate to the conditions at the time (visibility/weather, road surface, traffic volume etc) is a lot more important than watching your speedo then you belong in the first group I referred to

If you don't witness every day the kind of behaviour I'm referring to (no/minimal lights in the dark, changing lanes without indicating or even looking, sitting in the outside lane with no other cars around, merging onto a motorway at 60 km/h etc etc) then you clearly don't drive much

I have driven more miles in the last 5 years than the "average motorist" does in twice that time, in all weathers, time of day, road types and conditions. Despite that I have 0 points and the only accident I've had in my driving career is when a woman jammed in front of me for no reason and then swerved into my car as I tried to go around (as backed up by a fully independent witness in court).

I think that qualifies me to judge my own abilities and that of others but don't mistake (or misquote) that for me saying that I'm a "driving god" either as I'd never be so arrogant or complacent to do so, and nor does it mean that I go tearing around the place at 160 km/h either!!

In any case, given the complete lack of enforcement of anything other than "speeding", self-righteous "I'm driving under the limit so I can do what I want" types, and so on I'll continue to drive in a manner that I feel is appropriate and one which keeps myself, my passengers and car (and thus by extension everyone else too) safe REGARDLESS of what some sign might say.

Iwannahurl

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

If you don't witness every day the kind of behaviour I'm referring to (no/minimal lights in the dark, changing lanes without indicating or even looking, sitting in the outside lane with no other cars around, merging onto a motorway at 60 km/h etc etc) then you clearly don't drive much.

...

complete lack of enforcement of anything other than "speeding"

I got my licence at a younger age than you did, and I've been driving for longer than you have. I also have zero points, and I've never been in a collision. Do I know less than you? Am I safer than you, or less safe?

I see all sorts of muppetry and dangerous carry-on, whether I'm cycling, walking, driving or taking the bus.

Getting home without a bump every day does not automatically mean you're a good driver. Neither does it mean that the roads are safe, as I can testify as a cyclist. There are hordes of gobshytes on the roads (and footpaths) who think that because they have never killed or injured anyone they are "safe" drivers.

The notions that there's a "complete lack of enforcement of anything other than 'speeding'" is demonstrably untrue and is a typically uninformed and self-serving Boards/Motors myth.

_Kaiser_

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I got my licence at a younger age than you did, and I've been driving for longer than you have. I also have zero points, and I've never been in a collision. Do I know less than you? Am I safer than you, or less safe?

I see all sorts of muppetry and dangerous carry-on, whether I'm cycling, walking, driving or taking the bus.

Getting home without a bump every day does not automatically mean you're a good driver. Neither does it mean that the roads are safe, as I can testify as a cyclist. There are hordes of gobshytes on the roads (and footpaths) who think that because they have never killed or injured anyone they are "safe" drivers.

Notions such as that there's a "complete lack of enforcement of anything other than 'speeding'" is demonstrably untrue and is a typically uninformed and self-serving Boards/Motors myth.

Seeing as you're only selectively quoting from the replies I've made (in both responses you've made) I don't see any point in continuing to debate you as if you had read them you'd see that nowhere did I suggest that merely getting home without an accident = "I'm a good driver"

However I will add that many (and no, not all) cyclists and pedestrians are far from the innocent victims of "gobshyte" motorists you suggest them to be - cyclists routinely break lights, hop on and off footpaths, weave between cars in traffic etc themselves and as for pedestrians.. well, a trip down the quays in Dublin on a Saturday (or any day really) will soon teach you that driving a car is a nightmare as you have to constantly watch for the lemmings who'll just walk out in front of you!

But I know that "personal responsibility" isn't the done thing anymore in our country so it's far easier to blame the motorist regardless in such instances.

Mycroft H

Make it too fast and you'll just have this carry on happening.

Iwannahurl

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Seeing as you're only selectively quoting from the replies I've made (in both responses you've made) I don't see any point in continuing to debate you as if you had read them you'd see that nowhere did I suggest that merely getting home without an accident = "I'm a good driver"

However I will add that many (and no, not all) cyclists and pedestrians are far from the innocent victims of "gobshyte" motorists you suggest them to be - cyclists routinely break lights, hop on and off footpaths, weave between cars in traffic etc themselves and as for pedestrians.. well, a trip down the quays in Dublin on a Saturday (or any day really) will soon teach you that driving a car is a nightmare as you have to constantly watch for the lemmings who'll just walk out in front of you!

But I know that "personal responsibility" isn't the done thing anymore in our country so it's far easier to blame the motorist regardless in such instances.

You are trotting out the usual notions: watching the speedo, no enforcement of anything other than speed, arbitrary number on a sign blah blah. It has all been said over and over in this forum, and the arguments still don't stack up.

The point I was making earlier is that having zero points does not make you a good driver, so it strengthens your case none to make such a claim.

Question: how many pedestrians have been killed and injured by cyclists in the years 2009-2011, say?

Leonard Hofstadter

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The notions that there's a "complete lack of enforcement of anything other than 'speeding'" is demonstrably untrue and is a typically uninformed and self-serving Boards/Motors myth.

So far this year, there have been 1,002,979 penalty point offences.

Of those, a whopping 737,634 of them, or 73.54% of them are for speeding.

Far from it being a "typically uninformed and self-serving Boards/Motors myth", it is all the proof we need.

But I fully expect you to come up with some "justification" of this and to tell me/us that we are "wrong" and that all speed, even if it is 1 kph over the limit is bad and we're all mass murderers for breaking an arbitrary number, so that's my contribution to this thread finished.

Iwannahurl

Mycroft H wrote: »

Make it too fast and you'll just have this carry on happening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rapt5EfXDw

https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/TransportVerkehr/Verkehrsunfaelle/PK_Unfallentwicklung_PDF.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

GTE

Why is there use of the word arbitrary in a thread about motorway speed limits?

Iwannahurl

captainspeed wrote: »

that's my contribution to this thread finished.

Before it even started.

Mycroft H

Iwannahurl wrote: »

https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/TransportVerkehr/Verkehrsunfaelle/PK_Unfallentwicklung_PDF.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

Mein Deutsch ist nicht so toll. Summary?

Iwannahurl

Crashes happen and people die on autobahns too. This road type is safer than others, but not as safe as some might imagine.

There is no such thing as an idiot-proof road, even in Germany.

GTE

captainspeed wrote: »

so that's my contribution to this thread finished.

Although an injection of facts and figures is always welcome, it doesn't make up for your earlier comments about:

- Raising the speed limit to encourage, lets say, regular drives to buy bigger engines to please the motoring enthusiast.

- Belief that the speed limit of a motorway should be within 7% of the design maximum though the idea of extremely strict speeding penalties may rule out the safety issue of people pushing that limit like we already do our current one.

Though I asked about it earlier, if that was post was a piss take I of course apologise.

GTE

Iwannahurl wrote: »

There is no such thing as an idiot-proof road

Which is why there is a debate about how fast we want idiots propelled into other users.

Iwannahurl

Or other road users propelled into idiots.

Or idiots propelled into idiots. Or idiots propelled into pillars, walls, barriers, stray cattle, fallen debris etc.

Nino Brown

bbk wrote: »

Which is why there is a debate about how fast we want idiots propelled into other users.

Judging by the speed that guy was driving in the video, I seriously doubt it would make any difference to him what the speed limit was. An idiot will be an idiot regardless of what a sign says.
What do you reckon the speed limit was in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZG1HgOyFkU