(Would you like the)Motorway speed limit to be raised to 130km/h

CiniO

Looks like there is a proposal to raise speed limits on Irish motorways to 130km/h.

http://www.thejournal.ie/motorway-speed-limits-1203502-Dec2013/

Would you be for or against?

Drummerboy08

I'd be all for it, but only on the basis that motorway driving is brought in as part of the driving test.

TestTransmission

CiniO wrote: »

Looks like there is a proposal to raise speed limits on Irish motorways to 130km/h.

Would you be for or against?

Source?

CiniO

TestTransmission wrote: »

Source?

I forgot to put up the link.

AltAccount

Lane discipline , road manners, observation and anticipation etc - if these aren't improved it doesn't matter what the speed limit is.

120-130 is a small enough increase to be meaningless IMHO.

Also, who's making this proposal? Someone reputable or a random looney who has no chance of influencing anything?


Edit: surely it's already a dead duck...

A CALL FROM TD Clare Daly that the motorway speed limit be raised from 120km per hour to 130km per hour has been rejected by Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar

bazz26

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'd be all for it, but only on the basis that motorway driving is brought in as part of the driving test.

I'd agree but the problem with this though is that it could prove difficult in parts of the country that don't have them.

Mikros

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'd be all for it, but only on the basis that motorway driving is brought in as part of the driving test.

This ^

A lot of people take 130 km/h as the limit already, so raising it to 130 would see the same people probably going around an indicated 140 km/h. The standard of most motorways in the country is well capable of those speeds, but it's the person dawdling along at 100 km/h in the overtaking lane or pulling out without checking blind spots that would have me worried.

You do also have to acknowledge the increased fuel consumption, pollution and noise that go with the increased speed, but I think most modern cars are more capable of 130 km/h than before.

TestTransmission

There isnt a proposal though.A TD just asked the minister in question time

visual

I would be in favour of increasing motorway speed limits. When original limits were set cars could bearly reach the speed limits advancements in cars technology over last couple of decades means they brake better and more stable at higher speeds.

It would reduce trave times between cities and that has to be a good thing.

corktina

the limit was set just a few years ago when we went Metric. Cars have been capable of higher speeds for decades

I don't think there's much point in this, when did you last meet a Gard on the motorway?

3rdDegree

TestTransmission wrote: »

There isnt a proposal though.A TD just asked the minister in question time

Exactly, this is not going to happen. Just someone suggested it, nothing more.

3rdDegree

TestTransmission wrote: »

There isnt a proposal though.A TD just asked the minister in question time

Exactly, this is not going to happen. Just someone suggested it, nothing more.

Mint Sauce

The article says there is no proposal.

Any how, with the current lack of understanding, in terms of lane use, and disapline, the current speed is just fine.

GTE

There is too much wrong with how Irish motorists use motorways as a whole, in a general way, that speeding things up may just add to problems. Maybe very slightly but it is not going to make anything better.

joujoujou

Voted NO.

Because speed limit (IMO) should be raised to 140 km/h.

Mr Simpson

Misleading thread title is misleading.

Tbh I have no problem with them increasing the speed limit on motorways. If I'm honest, I do 130 kph on motorways anyway.

Supergurrier

More speed would be no harm.

Would prefer more education on motorway driving though tbh

Ded_Zebra

Bar the M50, which is too busy, I think all of our motorways should have no speed limit at all. IMO the roads are well enough designed and made that there is no safety benefit to having speed limits.

bigroad

I would like to see the higher speed limit but in saying that the most important limit to be raised is the 50kmh minimum speed limit.Banning all tractors from motorways.
Driver education needs to be looked at.

Drummerboy08

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

Bar the M50, which is too busy, I think all of our motorways should have no speed limit at all. IMO the roads are well enough designed and made that there is no safety benefit to having speed limits.

They're not. When you drive on motorways in the UK, France and Germany you'll realise that our motorways are like laneways compared to roads over there.

The M50 holds far too much water, as does the M7 and M9. The M1 isn't fantastic either. Given our weather patterns, I wouldn't fancy hitting standing water at high speed. I've hit it before on the M7 at the speed limit, and that was a hairy experience.

We also have an awful infrastructure system on our motorways. Kill is the last service station between Dublin and Cork on the motorway - all the other services further along the route involve leaving the motorway for 5 minutes to get there.

The N11 is similar - I could drive from Wexford to Dublin, and there isn't one Motorway services on the Gorey Bypass, Arklow Bypass or N11 from the Beehive onwards. In fact, if I was to drive from Wexford to Belfast, the first on Motorway Services I would meet would be Lusk....

Driving at higher speeds means more concentration is required, which means more driver breaks are required, which means more places for people to stop is required.

Drummerboy08

In actual fact, rather than raise the current speed limit, I'd rather see a minimum limit brought in.

Merging into traffic travelling at up to 120kph doing 80kph is not acceptable, and is far more dangerous than someone exceeding the speed limit by a reasonable margin IMO.

Pulling into the overtaking lane without matching the speed of the traffic already in that lane is also an inherent problem. Travelling at 120kph to suddenly have to reduce your speed to 80kph or worse on occasion because someone cannot complete an overtaking manoeuvre on a motorway properly is not only very frustrating, but also dangerous.

Ded_Zebra

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

They're not. When you drive on motorways in the UK, France and Germany you'll realise that our motorways are like laneways compared to roads over there.

The M50 holds far too much water, as does the M7 and M9. The M1 isn't fantastic either. Given our weather patterns, I wouldn't fancy hitting standing water at high speed. I've hit it before on the M7 at the speed limit, and that was a hairy experience.

We also have an awful infrastructure system on our motorways. Kill is the last service station between Dublin and Cork on the motorway - all the other services further along the route involve leaving the motorway for 5 minutes to get there.

The N11 is similar - I could drive from Wexford to Dublin, and there isn't one Motorway services on the Gorey Bypass, Arklow Bypass or N11 from the Beehive onwards. In fact, if I was to drive from Wexford to Belfast, the first on Motorway Services I would meet would be Lusk....

Driving at higher speeds means more concentration is required, which means more driver breaks are required, which means more places for people to stop is required.

In my (somewhat limited I will admit) experience of driving in Germany is that the road surfaces are rougher and the exits have little advance warning and have very tight bends. I think the availability of service stations has absolutely no effect on the safety of driving quickly on a road. Roads are clearly better with them but only from a connivance point of view.
I thought it went without saying that you would still need to slow down if there is standing water on the road. Ofter in those situations it is unsafe to drive at 120 so I don't see how the lack of a speed limit would change this.

CiniO

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

In actual fact, rather than raise the current speed limit, I'd rather see a minimum limit brought in.

What should the minimum speed be in your opinion?

corktina

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

They're not. When you drive on motorways in the UK, France and Germany you'll realise that our motorways are like laneways compared to roads over there.

The M50 holds far too much water, as does the M7 and M9. The M1 isn't fantastic either. Given our weather patterns, I wouldn't fancy hitting standing water at high speed. I've hit it before on the M7 at the speed limit, and that was a hairy experience.

We also have an awful infrastructure system on our motorways. Kill is the last service station between Dublin and Cork on the motorway - all the other services further along the route involve leaving the motorway for 5 minutes to get there.

The N11 is similar - I could drive from Wexford to Dublin, and there isn't one Motorway services on the Gorey Bypass, Arklow Bypass or N11 from the Beehive onwards. In fact, if I was to drive from Wexford to Belfast, the first on Motorway Services I would meet would be Lusk....

Driving at higher speeds means more concentration is required, which means more driver breaks are required, which means more places for people to stop is required.

quite agree about the state of our motorways. The M8 has had an 80 k "temporary" limit in force near Mitchelstown for months due to standing water when it rains. Thi isn't even being addressed as far as I can see

Drummerboy08

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

In my (somewhat limited I will admit) experience of driving in Germany is that the road surfaces are rougher and the exits have little advance warning and have very tight bends. I think the availability of service stations has absolutely no effect on the safety of driving quickly on a road. Roads are clearly better with them but only from a connivance point of view.
I thought it went without saying that you would still need to slow down if there is standing water on the road. Ofter in those situations it is unsafe to drive at 120 so I don't see how the lack of a speed limit would change this.

Services serve two purposes on a motorway.

The first is indeed from a convenience point of view - I need a drink, I want chocolate, etc etc etc.

The second is more important, and is linked to driving at speed (or any speed for that matter) which is an opportunity for the driver to take a break. If there are few or no services, a driver is much less likely to pull off the motorway to take a rest. If they are there, then it's well posted for the driver to see, and almost automatically you'll find yourself telling you that you need to take a rest, and you'll pull in.

You're correct when you say that you should slow down in wet conditions anyway, but certain elements of the driving community will always think they're more capable than they are, and not realise it until it's too late. With the speed limit, they're kept under control somewhat, but without a speed limit you'll find a lot more people not driving to the speed that conditions dictate.

Regardless of the above, the motorways I mentioned (and possibly others around the country) are still holding far too much water. Hit certain spots at 80kph and it's hard work to control a car, never mind 100 or 120kph. We get enough rain here to warrant someone building a motorway that could at least disperse a few hours of rain.

Drummerboy08

CiniO wrote: »

What should the minimum speed be in your opinion?

Haha, this could be a loaded question....

I think that if you are not capable of driving at 80kph + on a motorway, you probably have no earthly business being there. In my opinion.

And yes, I come across quite a few vehicles travelling at speeds lower than this on motorways.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I'd agree with the above posts saying that am increase in the limit is pointless without proper education and enforcement of motorway driving rules. Even just yesterday I was doing a short stretch on the M4 and had no less than three people pulling out in front of me in the overtaking lane when it was unsafe to do so. News flash dickheads, the safe breaking distance which I've left to the car in front of me is not a gap for you to plonk your SUV in and potter along at 100 km/h.

AugustusMinimus

That articles seems to be all wrong. Another point it makes is that the 80kph is being removed on Regional roads which isn't true at all.

As others have said in the past, we went with the wrong speed limit intervals.

130, 110, 90, 70 and 50 is what we should have gone with.

130kph for motorways and decent quality hqdc.

110kph for National Roads and Regional roads deemed capable of the speed

90kph for National and Regional road not deemed capable of 80kph.

70kph for regional and local roads not deemed good enough for 90kph


I'm all for 130kph on motorways. I personally set my cruise control to 130kph and drive away. No sensible Garda will ever do you for this speed on a motorway. Rubberstamping in law would be a positive though.

GTE

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

That articles seems to be all wrong. Another point it makes is that the 80kph is being removed on Regional roads which isn't true at all.

As others have said in the past, we went with the wrong speed limit intervals.

130, 110, 90, 70 and 50 is what we should have gone with.

130kph for motorways and decent quality hqdc.

110kph for National Roads and Regional roads deemed capable of the speed

90kph for National and Regional road not deemed capable of 80kph.

70kph for regional and local roads not deemed good enough for 90kph


I'm all for 130kph on motorways. I personally set my cruise control to 130kph and drive away. No sensible Garda will ever do you for this speed on a motorway. Rubberstamping in law would be a positive though.

Despite a wee typo for the 90kph, I like the sound of that.

Though, if we raise the speed I will feel less rebellious going 123kph on the sat nav =(

Ded_Zebra

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Services serve two purposes on a motorway.

The first is indeed from a convenience point of view - I need a drink, I want chocolate, etc etc etc.

The second is more important, and is linked to driving at speed (or any speed for that matter) which is an opportunity for the driver to take a break. If there are few or no services, a driver is much less likely to pull off the motorway to take a rest. If they are there, then it's well posted for the driver to see, and almost automatically you'll find yourself telling you that you need to take a rest, and you'll pull in.

You're correct when you say that you should slow down in wet conditions anyway, but certain elements of the driving community will always think they're more capable than they are, and not realise it until it's too late. With the speed limit, they're kept under control somewhat, but without a speed limit you'll find a lot more people not driving to the speed that conditions dictate.

Regardless of the above, the motorways I mentioned (and possibly others around the country) are still holding far too much water. Hit certain spots at 80kph and it's hard work to control a car, never mind 100 or 120kph. We get enough rain here to warrant someone building a motorway that could at least disperse a few hours of rain.

What would you think of a system where a speed limit could be introduced and enforced depending on conditions but most of the time there was none?

I think what would happen is that people would go mad for a while because they can but then slow down again when they see their fuel consumption :P

Drummerboy08

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

What would you think of a system where a speed limit could be introduced and enforced depending on conditions but most of the time there was none?

I think what would happen is that people would go mad for a while because they can but then slow down again when they see their fuel consumption :P

It sounds great on paper, but I've highlighted the big problem with your statement....

No offence to members of AGS reading this, but there is very little enforcement on motorways (with the exception of shooting fish in barrels) so I don't think it would ever work.

Then when it is enforced, you'll have people challenging decisions in court, as any enforcement could only be subject to the Garda's opinion. It wouldn't be concrete like - you were doing 150kph in a 120kph zone, here's the proof.

CiniO

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Haha, this could be a loaded question....

I think that if you are not capable of driving at 80kph + on a motorway, you probably have no earthly business being there. In my opinion.

And yes, I come across quite a few vehicles travelling at speeds lower than this on motorways.

See, the problem is that there are vehicles which are legally limited to 80km/h on motorway - all the cars and vans towing trailers.

So if they had maximum and minimum speeds of 80km/h they wouldn't have any choice what speed to choose.
Also vehicles might not be able to do 80km/h up the hills when fully loaded.

I think minimum speed on motorways applies in most EU countries but it's more likely around 40km/h.

Drummerboy08

Yep, I know, which is why its my opinion and not law. In an ideal world I suppose.

Ded_Zebra

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

It sounds great on paper, but I've highlighted the big problem with your statement....

No offence to members of AGS reading this, but there is very little enforcement on motorways (with the exception of shooting fish in barrels) so I don't think it would ever work.

Then when it is enforced, you'll have people challenging decisions in court, as any enforcement could only be subject to the Garda's opinion. It wouldn't be concrete like - you were doing 150kph in a 120kph zone, here's the proof.

Speed cameras that can be turned on? I know it takes big investment and it'll never happen but it could work

Drummerboy08

Who determines the conditions to turn the cameras on though? If its borderline, someone could easily argue the conditions were good enough for said speed...

Jesus.

AltAccount wrote: »

who's making this proposal? Someone reputable or a random looney who has no chance of influencing anything?

The latter

Ded_Zebra

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Who determines the conditions to turn the cameras on though? If its borderline, someone could easily argue the conditions were good enough for said speed...

You can't please all of the people all of the time. I'm sure similar systems could work in other countries, why not here.

Personally I'm not a fan of babysitting people and they should be allowed to make their own decisions.

billie1b

CiniO wrote: »

What should the minimum speed be in your opinion?

110km in lane 2 and 3 and 80km in lane 1 for slower moving vehicles (trucks and buses). The reason the slip road is there is to build up to the speed or match the speed of the traffic you are merging into, not to pull onto a motorway with a speed of 120km at 60km.
I had a lady one day in front of me pulling out from the Applegreen service station on the M4, she went down the slip road and completely stopped at the end of it, looked to her right and pulled out from a stop on the slip road straight into lane 1. Luckily it was a Sunday morning with hardly and traffic. If thats not dangerous, I dont know what is

challengemaster

corktina wrote: »

the limit was set just a few years ago when we went Metric. Cars have been capable of higher speeds for decades

I don't think there's much point in this, when did you last meet a Gard on the motorway?

I wouldn't say the limit was set, more converted, then rounded to the nearest figure. Saying the limits were set would imply some actual thought went into them.

Despite the lack of AGS presence everywhere else on the roads, they seem to have a fondness for sitting on certain on-ramps with their speed gun. I'd hazard a guess that there's a higher likelihood of being caught by AGS on the motorway than on other roads. Fish in a barrel has always been their style, though.

billie1b

CiniO wrote: »

See, the problem is that there are vehicles which are legally limited to 80km/h on motorway - all the cars and vans towing trailers.

So if they had maximum and minimum speeds of 80km/h they wouldn't have any choice what speed to choose.
Also vehicles might not be able to do 80km/h up the hills when fully loaded.

I think minimum speed on motorways applies in most EU countries but it's more likely around 40km/h.

Minimum speed limit in France is 80km on motorway and in foggy conditions maximun is 50km

CiniO

billie1b wrote: »

Minimum speed limit in France is 80km on motorway and in foggy conditions maximun is 50km

Sounded crazy for me, so I checked wikipedia, and indeed there is minimum 80km/h speed required, but only on most left lane (equivalent to most right lane in Ireland). Makes sense allright.

But general minimum of 80km/h on motorway is impossible, as there are vehicle unable to do such speed on inclines.

GTE

There is a minimum speed limit on motorways in parts of the UAE. Each Emirate is meant to be different but I have seen minimum limits very regularly. In fact, over 100 people were fined for going below the minimum limit in Abu Dhabi last year.

Something like 100 max, 80 for HGV and 60 minimum, I can not think for the life of me what is on the 120 and 140 max roads. Some places also have a buffer of +20kph on speed limits before fines are issued so maybe all that is worth considering here.

That said, you think we ignore the rules? Chaos over there but it works a bit better since you expect it.

ardmacha

But general minimum of 80km/h on motorway is impossible, as there are vehicle unable to do such speed on inclines.

Then either
- such vehicles should not be allowed on motorways
- the limited number of such inclines could have a lower limit for a short distance.

I wouldn't bother changing the limit, I'd rather see camera placed on on/off ramps to watch out for those who like to head for the exit from lane 3, those who couldn't be arsed accelerating to the speed of the traffic and those who cannot spend 30 secs behind such people and who like to shoot across the hatched area and lane 1 to get to the overtaking lane.

wotzgoingon

It should really be unlimited speed limit like the autobahn. I was never in Germany so I don't know if our motorways differentiate from the autobahn.

CiniO

wotzgoingon wrote: »

It should really be unlimited speed limit like the autobahn. I was never in Germany so I don't know if our motorways differentiate from the autobahn.

They do - greatly.

Mycroft H

ardmacha wrote: »

Then either
- such vehicles should not be allowed on motorways
- the limited number of such inclines could have a lower limit for a short distance.

If you banned them outright you'd practically take loads of HGVs off the road.

I used to drive a 23t rigid. It was limited to 83km/h by default and you would have to drop gears up long inclines and often you'd be only pushing 75km/h on long inclines particularly on the N11/M11 when up to weight.

billie1b

CiniO wrote: »

Sounded crazy for me, so I checked wikipedia, and indeed there is minimum 80km/h speed required, but only on most left lane (equivalent to most right lane in Ireland). Makes sense allright.

But general minimum of 80km/h on motorway is impossible, as there are vehicle unable to do such speed on inclines.

If a vehicle in Ireland that is slow moving or can't obtain 50kms per hour or more intends on using a motorway, they have to get prior permission from the relevant authorities and an escort down said motorway with a car in front and at the back with flashing amber lights or a garda escort.

On another note, if your speeding in France and the police clock you with a gun or on the car camera and your going 180km or more, they will not go after you or try stop you, as its classed as an endanger to the public. They take note of your reg and call to your house and arrest you for dangerous driving.

Leonard Hofstadter

Let's get rid of all the idiots who drive in the wrong lane on any three lane carriageway in Ireland first of all, and then we could have a serious discussion on raising speed limits on motorways, because let's be honest, 120 kph is a very low speed limit for motorways. If you drive in England, even though the speed limit is lower at 70 mph or 112 kph, you'll be left for dead at 80 mph / 128 kph and there'll be no shortage of drivers doing 85 - 90 mph / 135-144 kph.

The speed limit on many European motorways is 130 kph. Ireland's motorways are after all designed for 160 kph, so if we weren't so useless at driving, we could certainly have a motorway limit of 140 or 150 no problem - and I would be all for it. It might even encourage more people to buy cars with decent engines, which would be a good thing for the motoring enthusiast rather than the current situation where people automatically default to the smallest and/or least powerful possible engine.

GTE

captainspeed wrote: »

Let's get rid of all the idiots who drive in the wrong lane on any three lane carriageway in Ireland first of all, and then we could have a serious discussion on raising speed limits on motorways, because let's be honest, 120 kph is a very low speed limit for motorways. If you drive in England, even though the speed limit is lower at 70 mph or 112 kph, you'll be left for dead at 80 mph / 128 kph and there'll be no shortage of drivers doing 85 - 90 mph / 135-144 kph.

The speed limit on many European motorways is 130 kph. Ireland's motorways are after all designed for 160 kph, so if we weren't so useless at driving, we could certainly have a motorway limit of 140 or 150 no problem - and I would be all for it.It might even encourage more people to buy cars with decent engines, which would be a good thing for the motoring enthusiast rather than the current situation where people automatically default to the smallest and/or least powerful possible engine.

Is that post tongue in cheek?

Aestivalis

The maximum speed limit of any HGV on a motorway is 80km/h
For this reason, its a bit unfair to give out about other users doing 80km/h on a motorway.

GTE

Aestivalis wrote: »

The maximum speed limit of any HGV on a motorway is 80km/h
For this reason, its a bit unfair to give out about other users doing 80km/h on a motorway.

Having had thought about that at times, I think it is the perception of closing speed that is the issue.

Either;
- We can see that the HGV is going slower just down to the size of the thing where a cars speed is hard to detect until relatively close
- We just know that HGVs go slower and never expect a car to be going as slow or slower.

I don't know of scientific backup to the first point and am unsure how proper the second point is on the scheme of things but regardless, I have a much bigger issue with cars plodding along doing 80 personally. Odd one that, maybe I am a grumpy old man in my mid 20s. =P But to be fair, I have no way of knowing if they are doing 80 or not, it is just what I consider to be a bit slow relative to the rest of the traffic.